Not sure where to post but struggling a little

[Grayman]

The guy should have gotten a diagnosis from a doctor before looking for home remedies and spending 8 months hoping.

 

[Minuend]

Even the study I quoted talked about "isoenergetic" allotments which resulted in many more grams of plant- than animal-based protein.

Nuts, eh? Yet another thing that lowers testosterone.

A calorie isn't a calorie. Certain nutrients aren't as required depending on overall intake, stress, and amount of exertion. For example, low-carbers don't need much vitamin C and elimination of PUFAs dramatically lowers vitamin E requirements.

Increased intestinal absorption and cell permeability can decrease calorie requirements, due to higher bioavailability of processed nutrients. MSM, riboflavin, etc help along absorption/uptake efficiency.

Yeah, I know calories are more complex. Absorption of vitamins etc is also more complex than what people make it out to be

I don't really think we'll see eye to eye. You do your research and do what you think best, and I'll do the same. There's no motvation for you to listen to me, also there's studies showing anything is good or bad.

Bioavaliability is also complex the same way calories are. You absorb more vitamin x if you're low on it, and you absorb less if you're high.

We eat more meat than ever and our testosterone is bottom low. Obviously there's more to it than meat consumption

 

[baccheion]

Even the study I quoted talked about "isoenergetic" allotments which resulted in many more grams of plant- than animal-based protein.

Nuts, eh? Yet another thing that lowers testosterone.

A calorie isn't a calorie. Certain nutrients aren't as required depending on overall intake, stress, and amount of exertion. For example, low-carbers don't need much vitamin C and elimination of PUFAs dramatically lowers vitamin E requirements.

Increased intestinal absorption and cell permeability can decrease calorie requirements, due to higher bioavailability of processed nutrients. MSM, riboflavin, etc help along absorption/uptake efficiency.

Yeah, I know calories are more complex. Absorption of vitamins etc is also more complex than what people make it out to be

I don't really think we'll see eye to eye. You do your research and do what you think best, and I'll do the same. There's no motvation for you to listen to me, also there's studies showing anything is good or bad.

Bioavaliability is also complex the same way calories are. You absorb more vitamin x if you're low on it, and you absorb less if you're high.

We eat more meat than ever and our testosterone is bottom low. Obviously there's more to it than meat consumption

Curious to about lab work to assess hormone/nutrient/etc status given dietary choices. And a body fat and bone density test.

 

[Minuend]

Curious to about lab work to assess hormone/nutrient/etc status given dietary choices. And a body fat and bone density test.

You could read through what studies there are. Try finding meta studies as they usually have more data. Be skeptical of what you read and check if they are done by people who want certain results.

I'm not seeing solid data that says you can't live well and healthy on a vegan diet if done properly. Take your b12, maybe d vitamin if you're a Northerner and maybe iodine which is supplemented to animals. (Cows get iodine to provide more iodine in milk, the animals we eat usually gets supplements. Chicken used to lay 10-15 eggs a year, that number is now 300 due to selective breeding and it depletes them of calcium so their diet has to respond to that)

 

[baccheion]

Curious to about lab work to assess hormone/nutrient/etc status given dietary choices. And a body fat and bone density test.

You could read through what studies there are. Try finding meta studies as they usually have more data. Be skeptical of what you read and check if they are done by people who want certain results.

I'm not seeing solid data that says you can't live well and healthy on a vegan diet if done properly. Take your b12, maybe d vitamin if you're a Northerner and maybe iodine which is supplemented to animals. (Cows get iodine to provide more iodine in milk, the animals we eat usually gets supplements. Chicken used to lay 10-15 eggs a year, that number is now 300 due to selective breeding and it depletes them of calcium so their diet has to respond to that)

I have no plan on being vegan/vegetarian. I was wondering how it affected the poster I responded to and also suggesting they haven't gotten any labs run to verify/check their status.

 

[Minuend]

I have no plan on being vegan/vegetarian. I was wondering how it affected the poster I responded to and also suggesting they haven't gotten any labs run to verify/check their status.

The blood tests doctors usually run on me are fine, though there's a limit to what they test. That being said, I have gastroparesis/ delayed gastric emptying and can't eat like normal people. This was a thing when I ate meat and weighed 12 kg more as well and I got iron deficiency even when consuming liver paste, bread and meat every day. So my results are not going to represent anything. Norwegians eat a lot of meat, and I come from a family who eat a lot and did so myself. A plant based meal isn't something I did until I met someone vegan and ate with that person. Lentils, seeds and most beans I'd never tasted before + more. In fact, the shit I eat a lot of today, I either didn't like, never tasted or rarely ate before.

I do supplement a lot, because of my condition, I eat like 500-1000 kcal some days. I'm just not able to digest enough food due to my illness (possibly a side effect of SSRI taken like 8 years ago, that's when it started).

I do some strength exercise, the trained eye can tell. But I'm not superstrong as my condition impact things like fatigue, and I still have body fat I want to get rid of. Also, I don't have access to training outside my home.

It's actually surprising how well the body adapts and how I'm able to build muscle even due to my caloric restriction and general health issues due to gastroparesis.

 

[baccheion]

I have no plan on being vegan/vegetarian. I was wondering how it affected the poster I responded to and also suggesting they haven't gotten any labs run to verify/check their status.

The blood tests doctors usually run on me are fine, though there's a limit to what they test. That being said, I have gastroparesis/ delayed gastric emptying and can't eat like normal people. This was a thing when I ate meat and weighed 12 kg more as well and I got iron deficiency even when consuming liver paste, bread and meat every day. So my results are not going to represent anything. Norwegians eat a lot of meat, and I come from a family who eat a lot and did so myself. A plant based meal isn't something I did until I met someone vegan and ate with that person. Lentils, seeds and most beans I'd never tasted before + more. In fact, the shit I eat a lot of today, I either didn't like, never tasted or rarely ate before.

I do supplement a lot, because of my condition, I eat like 500-1000 kcal some days. I'm just not able to digest enough food due to my illness (possibly a side effect of SSRI taken like 8 years ago, that's when it started).

I do some strength exercise, the trained eye can tell. But I'm not superstrong as my condition impact things like fatigue, and I still have body fat I want to get rid of. Also, I don't have access to training outside my home.

It's actually surprising how well the body adapts and how I'm able to build muscle even due to my caloric restriction and general health issues due to gastroparesis.

In a way that's a distraction from the point. Have you tried anything to address the condition (not just maintain nutrient sufficiency)? Fasting? Megadose vitamin D3? Iodine protocol? Magnesium + B6 P-5'-P?

 

[Minuend]

In a way that's a distraction from the point. Have you tried anything to address the condition (not just maintain nutrient sufficiency)? Fasting? Megadose vitamin D3? Iodine protocol? Magnesium + B6 P-5'-P?

Yes. The thing that always makes me better is weeks of protein shakes an well boiled vegetable soups. Only problem is, I have to stick to that to like 4-6 weeks to get well (or more).

And, well, have you ever tried living like that, it's fucking difficult, you also lose weight. But the main problem is how difficult it is to be on a liquid diet for that long. I did manage it once before and I was fine, but then I eat a bit too big meal here and I overeat there and my problems are back and I have to do this liquid diet again for several weeks.

My main problem is how I'm unable to live on a liquid diet long enough to "reset" my stomach. Just try it yourself for 4 weeks, it's horrible.

(I take megadose d3, I take normal dose of iodine, magnesium , b vitamins. But still, eating normally feels like getting gradually poisoned. I have to eat liquids every now and then, or my stomach gets fucked, which makes me depressed, makes me feel ill, back gets stiff, fatigue etc)

Ofc, it's not really an excuse. Getting well demands sacrifice, and I have no good reason to being unable to do it again.

 

[baccheion]

In a way that's a distraction from the point. Have you tried anything to address the condition (not just maintain nutrient sufficiency)? Fasting? Megadose vitamin D3? Iodine protocol? Magnesium + B6 P-5'-P?

Yes. The thing that always makes me better is weeks of protein shakes an well boiled vegetable soups. Only problem is, I have to stick to that to like 4-6 weeks to get well (or more).

And, well, have you ever tried living like that, it's fucking difficult, you also lose weight. But the main problem is how difficult it is to be on a liquid diet for that long. I did manage it once before and I was fine, but then I eat a bit too big meal here and I overeat there and my problems are back and I have to do this liquid diet again for several weeks.

My main problem is how I'm unable to live on a liquid diet long enough to "reset" my stomach. Just try it yourself for 4 weeks, it's horrible.

(I take megadose d3, I take normal dose of iodine, magnesium , b vitamins. But still, eating normally feels like getting gradually poisoned. I have to eat liquids every now and then, or my stomach gets fucked, which makes me depressed, makes me feel ill, back gets stiff, fatigue etc)

Ofc, it's not really an excuse. Getting well demands sacrifice, and I have no good reason to being unable to do it again.

Megadose D3 in this case is ~300-500 IU/kg/day for 3-6 months. Up to 2 years. 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ K2 MK-4. And magnesium.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Megadose D3 in this case is ~300-500 IU/kg/day for 3-6 months. Up to 2 years. 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ K2 MK-4. And magnesium.

Have you personally thought any results were noticeable? Particularly affecting fatigue and memory or thought processing?

 

[Pizzabeak]

And it isn’t memory so much, more like will to devote.

 

[Minuend]

Megadose D3 in this case is ~300-500 IU/kg/day for 3-6 months. Up to 2 years. 10 IU D3 : 2 mcg+ K2 MK-4. And magnesium.

Appreciate the sentiment, but. Read about gastroparesis. Even if you read about it, it's impossible to understand how anything you eat creates numbness or feel like nothing in your gut. It's impossible to understand how you feel paralyzed in your gut all the time.

If supplements helped, I'd notice, I've tried them in full. The only thing that helps me is a liquid diet. My main problem is not having the will power to live on protein shakes and boiled vegetable soups for 6-10 weeks. I did it once and I became well, but then I gradually ate worse and became worse. My only problem is that of will. Try living that way, it'a hard. But yeah, I know that's not an excuse.