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Not quite sure what I am looking for...

Tony3d

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I am not really sure exactly what it is that I am looking for, but I can't seem to figure out certain problems that I have with myself and how to get past them. So I figured I could try hanging around some people with a similar thought process and see if I can pick up anything positive... Hmmmm... I think that is about it.

But anyways, I am Tony, hello.
 

Tony3d

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That is not exactly easy for me to answer, but I shall give it a shot.

I am an introvert by nature and for most of my life I have always found a lot of peace in that, I would enjoy nothing more than having time alone with my thoughs and I found being around large groups of people to be a bother. I had very little social skills for a good majority of my youth, and it wasn't until a few years ago when I started college that I really started becomeing good at talking to people. I spent years just trying to talk to people a bit more each day and push myself a little further each day to get to that point.

So, over my years of practice and gaining understanding, I am now to the point that I can go to work and spend all day talking to total strangers. I can make anyone laugh, I can gain peoples trust almost at will, and I can speak or perform (I was a lead singer/guitar player in a band for a while) in front of a couple hundered people without a problem.

So, to get to my problem, through all those years of immproving, in the end I am basically left feeling more lonely than I ever have in my life, more lonely than I ever could have imagined years ago.

I feel as if I have learned how to make people like being around me, but I have not been able to connect with people.

The thing is, I am still an introvert, and I still hate being in large groups of people, but I have this almost desperate hunger for companionship of a few people I can trust. The problem is, the more I seem to try to reach this goal the more things seem to fall apart.

Lately it has just overwhelmed me, and when my thought proccesses can't come up with a possible logical answer and break down I tend to spiral down into the deepest depression I have ever expereinced as my head just cycles through all the negativity and failures and immposibilities of what I want. This led me to a phase where I would just drink until I passed out every night because it was the only way I could get the thoughts that I once found so comforting to leave me alone and let me sleep.

So I guess I have to ask, does anyone else understand what I am saying when I say that I feel like I was tearing myself apart from the inside with my own negative thought? Or am I just crazy?



I am sorry if that doesn't make a whole lot of sence, it would take ages for me to sit here and organize it all and give all the details to make it possible to fully understand...
 

catatonic

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Hello there.

Actually I don't understand, yeah my friends said that I've no feeling. :kilroy:
 

The Gopher

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I was looking for the rest of the sentence.
 

Tony3d

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Hello there.

Actually I don't understand, yeah my friends said that I've no feeling. :kilroy:

I think that my feelings are like some uncontrollable beast hidden deep beneath the surface being chained by layers and layers of logic and deep thought.

Only when my thoughts can no longer provide me with any comfort does the best wreck havok on my mind.

Any other time (like right now) it is completly at my disposal to do with what I please, usually I just let it sleep.
 

The Gopher

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I think that my feelings are like some uncontrollable beast hidden deep beneath the surface being chained by layers and layers of logic and deep thought.


Emotion isn't apart from logic. But I understand what you are trying to say.
 

Polaris

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That is not exactly easy for me to answer, but I shall give it a shot.

So, to get to my problem, through all those years of immproving, in the end I am basically left feeling more lonely than I ever have in my life, more lonely than I ever could have imagined years ago.

I feel as if I have learned how to make people like being around me, but I have not been able to connect with people.

The thing is, I am still an introvert, and I still hate being in large groups of people, but I have this almost desperate hunger for companionship of a few people I can trust. The problem is, the more I seem to try to reach this goal the more things seem to fall apart.

Lately it has just overwhelmed me, and when my thought proccesses can't come up with a possible logical answer and break down I tend to spiral down into the deepest depression I have ever expereinced as my head just cycles through all the negativity and failures and immposibilities of what I want. This led me to a phase where I would just drink until I passed out every night because it was the only way I could get the thoughts that I once found so comforting to leave me alone and let me sleep.

So I guess I have to ask, does anyone else understand what I am saying when I say that I feel like I was tearing myself apart from the inside with my own negative thought? Or am I just crazy?



I am sorry if that doesn't make a whole lot of sence, it would take ages for me to sit here and organize it all and give all the details to make it possible to fully understand...

I understand. Unfortunately.....

I cannot make you feel better, but I can relate....

Doom-warning:

I am not sure if you can relate but I will try to explain my world-view...it's a little bit bleak.

Now this is pure speculation on my behalf, but here we go: As an NT, I think you are perhaps intuitively aware of the universal lack of meaning (this sounds cliched, but I have trouble expressing it any other way), even in human relationships. I think it is easier for NT's, particularly NT's with a Perceiving rather than Judging outlook to fall into this mode than for sensor-feelers who are given enough "meaning" through more dominant sensory world-perception. People with these preferences take in information through strongly sensory-based activities which again trigger their emotions, hence life for them may seem more "meaningful" as they pay less attention to thinking about questions as to why they feel this way; in other words, they don't spend time analysing why they have a meaningful life. Sensations and the resulting emotions, whether good or bad, to them, gives life meaning. (I am not saying this goes for all sensor-feelers of course, I am generalising here, so please forgive me for coming across as overly judgmental. I'm aware this needs more thinking-work...)

Now I think intuitive thinkers have an underlying perception of the lack of meaning in all things, even relationships (someone correct me if I'm wrong). NT's generally do not have a preference for jumping out of planes or immersing themselves in activities that stimulate the endocrine system. INT's prefer to be alone and immerse themselves in cerebral activities. Their more dominant thinking will dissect sensory input and the resulting emotions as one may dissect a dead body; one tends not to stop at emotions alone....one will analyse it in order to understand how it really works. The "logical" conclusion is perhaps more often than not....quite starkly existential, one is left staring into a void.

I remember at a very early age of three or four, having intense realisations of universal emptiness. The feeling was often strongest when other people around me were happy or perceived something beautiful, like a sunset. I just felt depressed as I couldn't understand or share the meaning of what they experienced, and I felt even more isolated and alone. I am now thinking that this may have been my strong intuition at work, even as a child.

I later realised I could push these involuntary perceptions to the side if I immersed myself in activities that kept my thinking under control, so I ended up reading a lot. Later in life I started reading some existential philosophy...:phear: Søren Kierkegaard hit right home with me. I finally felt a connection. Here was a person who had the same perceptions, only he had dared to vocalise it. I understood that I had from an early age been routinely haunted by existential questions or "feelings', only I had not dared to speak of it as I feared it would isolate me even more from others. I was somewhat relieved as someone other than me had dared to speak of a truth that no-one else I had encountered had dared to speak.

Later on I drifted through life, meeting many people and drifting in and out of relationships. I dropped most of my connections, friends and relationships along the way as I could never find that connection with anyone. I pretended to care when I couldn't. Because I put up a front all the time, I ended up exhausting myself. I had no idea what love was (I still don't...although I'm working on that one too), I had no feelings of attachment to anyone and certainly did not experience that feeling of deep connection to someone that people were raving about. I just couldn't feel anything towards other humans, and this frightened me. Yet, I persisted in seeking relationships.

For this reason I have been in constant conflict with myself over why I should be chasing these connections. I was becoming rather weary.

The last two relationships I was in were the final straw. I decided that it was better for me to be alone. I had been attempting to find meaning through people, and it didn't work. I have had to face the horrific truth of this again and again.

Now I have come to an acceptance of my decision, and I feel somewhat......liberated?

It sounds negative and quite paradoxical....I know. I do not wish to drag anyone down, but this is how I see it. For the moment.

Perhaps there are people one can truly connect with, I do not know. I have never encountered anyone though.

Perhaps that is what true love is; when you finally make that connection with someone. The chances of that happening are probably very slim, and I think many people go through life thinking the lousy relationships they have are something that "needs work" or whatever. They desperately hang on despite their misery, thinking it's better than nothing.

I don't believe in those relationships.

I'd rather have nothing, because that feels less lonely than being with someone one cannot connect with.

I'm not happy with the way I formulated my ideas about sensor/feelers vs. intuitive/thinkers and perceived meaning.....I would like to get back to this, but I need to build the structure in my head first. It's a bit half-baked, but I am hoping you may intuit what I'm rambling about.....for now.
 

Tony3d

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I can totally understand everything you just said, but I honestly cannot relate. I don't think my introverted tendencies (as well as some of my other personality traits) are as extream as yours or a lot of the INTPs I have come across on here. I have sometimes wondered if I was really an INTP at all, but the thought process in how INTPs make decisions is still spot on with my own, so I really don't doubt it.

I have on a handful of ocations formed really strong bonds with a few people around me, and it is the realization of how much that meant to me, and my inability to go out and find more people like that, that drives me insane.
 

Cognisant

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This led me to a phase where I would just drink until I passed out every night because it was the only way I could get the thoughts that I once found so comforting to leave me alone and let me sleep.
Lol, I've been there.

I feel as if I have learned how to make people like being around me, but I have not been able to connect with people.
You have very specific interests that few others can relate to?

I know that feeling of struggling to establish a connection all to well, being right next to someone and yet feeling like you're inhabiting another universe altogether, y'see the problem is some people (not all INTPs do this, but I suspect INTPs do it most) are particularly individual and the problem with being so individual is that relationships are all about connections, the more/strong the connections you share with someone the more naturally a relationship will form. For example if I liked football (I don't) and you like football, then we have common ground, we like what each other likes and so we like each other, it's easy and agreeable for us to talk about football, but if you don't like football and I try to talk to you about football there is a strain, you try to be polite but you're not interested and when I figure out you're not interested I don't feel comfortable continuing to talk about football to you.

So if you're a pathfinder of the psyche, someone who has a keen interest in something that other people don't and that interest leads you off into territory that the vast majority of people can't relate to, your individuality becomes your isolation.

There's several ways of dealing with this, the most obvious being to develop connections that are more socially lucrative, which kind of sucks because the most socially lucrative connections tend to be things that appeal to the lowest common denominator, although if you can find the right subculture the LCD doesn't have to be quite so low, e.g. go to a goth club and ask someone what their favourite Voltaire song is, tell them what yours is, congratulations you're now a goth. Just an example.

Another way is to search for people who are also interested in the things you're interested in, and the easiest way of doing that is to bring it up in conversation, talk to people about your kind of stuff, look for people who respond positively, of course most won't but that's no big deal, just don't expect to find anyone that's excited about your stuff as you are, instead it's easier to "create" such people by taking an interest in their interests, which pressures them into doing the same for you. This technique can be fun to abuse.

Disclaimer: I am a horrible person.
 

MsAnthropy_Indefatigably

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Sounds more like you enjoy people's company and you are only considering yourself introverted because you appreciate being alone. You still don't sound like you LOVE it. I am not saying your typing does not fall under being INTP, but if you were, I don't think your concerns about being lonely would even be an issue.

There's a big different between being a loner and being lonely. And you sound lonely.

There's also a big different between being uncomfortable around others because you fear not being accepted by them or being uncomfortable around people because you prefer to not deal with them. I tend to usually fall under the latter. I could care less about what people think of me 94% of the time. I don't care to be in people's company when I know I will the "outcast" of the group. I am more comfortable being around introverts or people who don't use a lot of emotions to express themselves.

You sound a lot more like INFJ. You keep bringing up this problem with you "feelings" that I don't think most people here will be able to connect with. Sure, it's cool to have a handful of people you can connect with, but I find that if that thought even crosses my mind, It's gone in a matter of seconds. I'm just not into meeting anyone new or having to open myself up to anyone.
 

Tony3d

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I do not like being around large groups of people or being in social gatherings, but I usually do like being alone.

I just don't like the extream of not having anyone around that I can talk to.


I guess my biggest problem is that I want to be in a small group of people, but my avoidance of social gathering spots such as bars and clubs has pretty much made it immposible for me to try to meet people.

I am only a mild introvert, so being alone for a bit makes me feel really good, but knowing that I have no one to talk to at all makes me feel lonely.



But anyways, I am almost certain I am not INFJ. I actually have a very mild preference in most areas, but I most deffinatly use introverted thinking as my primary thought process, I am a bit less sure about the rest.

I have strong feelings, but I feel that it is by far the most immature area of my mind, and they are pushed deep below the surface untill my higher functions begin to break down from the stress of not being able to solve my problem.

It is really only when something is pushed to the extreams that my feeling mind begins to break out.
 
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I have no idea how you feel. That's great you can make people laugh, and can be the life of the party, and you crave companionship. That sounds completely alien to me. I mostly just want to do things that I want to do, alone, and if anyone gets in the way, I kind of just ignore them.

Can you use your social skills to get the companionship you so crave? Sounds like you have it made, if you don't mind me saying. I'll never know whats it like to be able to do that; my personality in real life is similar to the main character of "Apocalypse Now", which is about as humorless as you can get.
 

Tony3d

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I have no idea how you feel. That's great you can make people laugh, and can be the life of the party, and you crave companionship. That sounds completely alien to me. I mostly just want to do things that I want to do, alone, and if anyone gets in the way, I kind of just ignore them.

Can you use your social skills to get the companionship you so crave? Sounds like you have it made, if you don't mind me saying. I'll never know whats it like to be able to do that; my personality in real life is similar to the main character of "Apocalypse Now", which is about as humorless as you can get.

I think I am an introvert like you, but just to a much less extream, maybe 70% introvert 30% extrovert.

The thing is, I do really well in one on one situations, and if I need to approach someone at my job (I sell TVs, cellphones, and run a photo center) I can easily get them laughing and have them trusting me.

The thing is, if I go out to a social scene like a bar or club or party where the whole idea is social interaction and meeting people, I get very uncomfortable.

Even if I go someplace like the mall, and I see people there, I start thinking/feeling (I am honestly not sure which one) that I would be doing something something wrong if I were to approach them, and I start thinking/feeling guilty about it and then convince myself with logic that I should not do it and that I don't want to talk to those people anyways. (I end up throwing a lot of pre-judgments on people about how they are not good enough for me or whatever... sigh...)

This I don't understand.

How do you INTPs usually go about meeting people? Especially meeting girls?
 
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I think I am an introvert like you, but just to a much less extream, maybe 70% introvert 30% extrovert.

The thing is, I do really well in one on one situations, and if I need to approach someone at my job (I sell TVs, cellphones, and run a photo center) I can easily get them laughing and have them trusting me.

The thing is, if I go out to a social scene like a bar or club or party where the whole idea is social interaction and meeting people, I get very uncomfortable.

Even if I go someplace like the mall, and I see people there, I start thinking/feeling (I am honestly not sure which one) that I would be doing something something wrong if I were to approach them, and I start thinking/feeling guilty about it and then convince myself with logic that I should not do it and that I don't want to talk to those people anyways. (I end up throwing a lot of pre-judgments on people about how they are not good enough for me or whatever... sigh...)

This I don't understand.

How do you INTPs usually go about meeting people? Especially meeting girls?

I just work, do my thing, and if someone talks to me then we talk, and one thing leads to another. I rarely am the initiator, and prefer to just do my own thing and not worry about meeting people. In other words, I have no clue. Usually if you're just doing your own thing, people will talk to you and be genuinely interested in what you're doing. If I talk to someone, I have no idea what to say, but when they talk to me, all I have to do is reply.

I'm not terribly interested in meeting people.
 

Tony3d

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Well, that hasn't worked for me at all, doing the things that I do in my daily life, so I really want to find a way to be proactive and not have to wait for things to happen to me. I want to make them happen. That is probably not a very Introverted Thinker thing to say... I am probably showing my slight nuetralness here a bit...

I am honestly very happy with the fact that I have moved away from being an extream in any particular direction woth my personality, I am trying to find more balance in my life, and not being able to get past whatever is blocking me is really hurting my shadow complex that I have worked so hard to gain control over.

I think I am really close to bringing a healthy amount of feeling into my life, but I get right on the doorstep and get teased but get the door slammed in my face.

Maybe I am just a bit crazy... Do I seem a lot different that your standard INTP?
 

pjoa09

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I do not like being around large groups of people or being in social gatherings, but I usually do like being alone.

I just don't like the extream of not having anyone around that I can talk to.


I guess my biggest problem is that I want to be in a small group of people, but my avoidance of social gathering spots such as bars and clubs has pretty much made it immposible for me to try to meet people.

I am only a mild introvert, so being alone for a bit makes me feel really good, but knowing that I have no one to talk to at all makes me feel lonely.



But anyways, I am almost certain I am not INFJ. I actually have a very mild preference in most areas, but I most deffinatly use introverted thinking as my primary thought process, I am a bit less sure about the rest.

I have strong feelings, but I feel that it is by far the most immature area of my mind, and they are pushed deep below the surface untill my higher functions begin to break down from the stress of not being able to solve my problem.

It is really only when something is pushed to the extreams that my feeling mind begins to break out.

ENFP?

Just hurling it out there. Those guys can sometimes want to talk to people and sometimes they just want everyone to fuck off.

It's somewhat strange that someone could consider themselves socially adept and yet dislike people. I think ENFJ might do it too. They tend to be these smooth talkers who can't trust those that they smooth talk with. They come back to their close friends who in the ENFJs case, cold and insensitive. Just going off of what I know.

I really think you are ENFJ. They have that mild occasional introversion.

INTPs, in my experience if I really am one, have issues with being anything other than Melancholic (in the 4 temperaments) . It's difficult for me to come up with small talk questions. I habitually bite into the meat.
 

Tony3d

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Introverted thinking is most deffinatly my primary function in my though process, I really do not doubt that one at all. It is the way I approach basically everything in my life.

My uncanny ability at forming systems inside my own mind and breaking everything down to a logical truth that I can apply is a big reason why I can't see myself being an F of any sort. The feeling side of me is deffinatly there, but I process everything through logic and systems first and foremost.

I also don't doubt much that I am an introvert, just not a very extream one.

It actually took me years and years of trial and error to get to the point where I could be sociable, I mostly got that way through understanding the logic behind why people acted they way they do and putting patterns into a system that allows me to communicate with them in a way that will make them trust me.
 
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Introverted thinking is most deffinatly my primary function in my though process, I really do not doubt that one at all. It is the way I approach basically everything in my life.

My uncanny ability at forming systems inside my own mind and breaking everything down to a logical truth that I can apply is a big reason why I can't see myself being an F of any sort. The feeling side of me is deffinatly there, but I process everything through logic and systems first and foremost.

I also don't doubt much that I am an introvert, just not a very extream one.

It actually took me years and years of trial and error to get to the point where I could be sociable, I mostly got that way through understanding the logic behind why people acted they way they do and putting patterns into a system that allows me to communicate with them in a way that will make them trust me.

I tried doing that system/logic thing, and I've found that I couldn't get a system that worked consistently, so I just simply gave up and started keeping to myself. It worked out way better, and I'm way happier not worrying about communicating or people in general, its really pretty peaceful and carefree. Mostly, girls approach me and just start leading me, and things happen. If a guy talks to me.. usually he is trying to sell me something :P Thats pretty much my system.. I don't think you'll be happy with that though. I really think you came to the wrong group of people to tell you how to meet people :P

Maybe you can take up an interesting hobby, like painting, and you'll meet new people just by the sake of doing interesting art.
 

Tony3d

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I totally understand what you are saying, but it really is helping me to understand things seeing the way people who are more extream in the same personality type as me do things.

Normally I would have to be careful about saying this, but I don't think INTPs would really get offended by this, or much of anything I could say to you at that...

But I really don't want to fall into being extreamly oriented in one direction or the other, I want to learn and expand what my weaknesses are. My though processes follow that of an INTP, but I want to learn what it is like to feel and I want to learn what it is like to be around people and enjoy things.

But seriously, the feedback is really helping me learn and understand better. I think I might go and chat with some different personality types and see if they might have any advice on how to overcome my obstacles and be more well rounded.
 

EyeSeeCold

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How do you INTPs usually go about meeting people? Especially meeting girls?

I'm not speaking from guru status or anything but I do consider it something insightful. Ask yourself, what would make you want to come up to someone and talk to them?

People love seeing their favorite icons or idols in tshirts, their favorite book being read by another, or hearing their favorite songs or quotes being played/said by others.

Projecting your core interests or values will occasionally cause people to notice you that have those same interests and values(likewise, you should try to approach those who are similar). The enthusiasm from meeting someone similar who is into the same stuff will likely be enough to carry the conversation.

It also helps to be in a situation where you'll see the person again.
 

Tony3d

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I understand what you are saying, and I know exactly how to do that and get people to like me.

My problem with... I think it is my introverted side, not sure if it comes from thinking or feeling, but in my intuition I am told that I should not be approaching people without a reason (maybe plausible deniability...) and then my logical brain gets filled with reasons why I don't want to talk to these people.

My thinking self has no problem knowing how to talk to people, and there is no fear of rejection or any consequences. But do you guys think it could be a fear reaction from my shadwon Fe?

I was just curious if anyone else ever had this kind of problem or not when trying to approach new people... hmmmm...
 

EyeSeeCold

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Yeah it sounds like self-inhibition caused by social anxiety. Like you are searching within yourself for permission to speak to others, or waiting for a signal from others.

If you can identify with this I know exactly what you mean:

Would you say you have an easier time approaching people when there is some important work to do, or thing to discuss?

Do you turn conversation into business / discussion and neglect lighthearted, 'purposeless', or casual conversation?
 

Tony3d

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I can most definatly relate to the idea of it being easy to approach people when there is a reason for me to do it, usually if I am helping them in some sort of way or something.

I am however pretty good at keeping up light and silly conversation with those people once I start talking, though that has not always been the case when I was younger. It is a skill accuired through practice.
 

pjoa09

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I can most definatly relate to the idea of it being easy to approach people when there is a reason for me to do it, usually if I am helping them in some sort of way or something.

I am however pretty good at keeping up light and silly conversation with those people once I start talking, though that has not always been the case when I was younger. It is a skill accuired through practice.

I can't approach people well. I have serious anxiety before ringing and it takes a MASSIVE need for me to bother calling anyone other than family. It would have helped tremendously if I were comfortable. I love cars and the purchasing of a beater has been the only thing that I have peered out of my shell for.My brother however, a possible ENFJ, is very much like you are. Although a bit neurotic and emotionally unstable at times. He freaks out and obsesses over things I can't understand sometimes. Makes me feel sensory in comparison to him. Generally, he is quite talkative but only to me or his friends. He never hesitates to call anyone though. It's sometimes his entertainment. ENFJs are Ti s too by the way. Have you tried ISTP? I am IXTP at times.

I understand it's a skill acquired by practice but that means that you were interested in it and we can see this skill develop to heights as you have stuck with it.
 
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Take up yoga, painting, or playing the guitar. They're really fun and you'll meet new people. Maybe teach or tutor a class on a subject you enjoy, that way if anyone talks to you, you don't have to make small talk (INTP nightmare!), but just have to talk about the subject.

Once you take up a new skill, you just focus on your own self-improvement, instead of worrying about meeting new people like you're doing now. Its much more positive, methinks! I like it, anyway.
 

Tony3d

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Oct 19, 2012
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321
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Location
Phoenix
Generally, he is quite talkative but only to me or his friends. He never hesitates to call anyone though. It's sometimes his entertainment. ENFJs are Ti s too by the way. Have you tried ISTP? I am IXTP at times.

I understand it's a skill acquired by practice but that means that you were interested in it and we can see this skill develop to heights as you have stuck with it.

I always hesitate when I call people, I also struggle with eye contact and anything that involves touching or being touched by other people.

I can't be an F though, thinking and logic is my default and dominant state of my brain, my feelings are very immature and childlike. I don't doubt that I have strong feelings, which a lot of INTPs lack, but when it comes to my thought process it is ALWAYS thinking first, feeling usually doesn't play a role at all in my decision making unless my logical brain has totally broken down from stress.

Take up yoga, painting, or playing the guitar. They're really fun and you'll meet new people. Maybe teach or tutor a class on a subject you enjoy, that way if anyone talks to you, you don't have to make small talk (INTP nightmare!), but just have to talk about the subject.

Once you take up a new skill, you just focus on your own self-improvement, instead of worrying about meeting new people like you're doing now. Its much more positive, methinks! I like it, anyway.


I already play guitar, I am planning on trying the yoga. I do yoga as part of P90X, but I am thinking about doing classes so I can be around girls when I do it, lol... I am sure most of you INTPs hate gyms as much as I do, but being around cute girls doesn't sound bad.

I am already a guitar player, I was thinking of taking up ballroom dancing.
 
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