No Thought and Social Atrophy

[Black Rose]

I was trying to think of the reason why it seems that people much younger than me are better at social dynamics than I am. One point of consideration is intelligence and another point is cognitive development. With me, I should be above average in mental capacity but I may be delayed in cognitive development.

On a website about intellectual development, I found a list of "The four languages of conscious thought"

1. Kinesthetic thought: experiencing bodily sensations, feelings and emotions, as reactions to a memory, immediate experience or imagined situation.

2. Auditory thought: hearing others' speech, natural sounds and music, which are recalled from memory or imagined.

3. Visual thought: seeing mental pictures, which are often fuzzy and fragmentary and which are recalled from memory or imagined.

4. Verbal thought: speaking in your mental voice, just as if you were expressing your mental processes aloud in words, phrases and sentences - this is 'inner speech'.

1. I am fine with kinesthetic learning and motor planning control.
2. I barely remember clips from music (I cannot remember entire songs) I remember some auditory sounds by it is not always complete.
3. I lack completely visual thought.
4. I use inner speech about 15% of the time I think.


Visual thought usually develops from age 7-8
Inner speech from age 10-12

In the title of this thread, it says no thought. Often at times, nothing is happening in my head. When stuff is happening it is unconscious thought. which means no mental effort needs to happen. I try and feel what needs to be connected and it pops out of my unconscious.

The social atrophy comes from me, with nothing in my head, not knowing what to do to make friends. In high school. I have nothing to say and I have no inner voice to talk to myself how to be social.

It is a big drawback not to have visual thoughts. But I know it must exist because in my unconscious I remember visual things I cannot see in my head. It is how I can find pictures in my collections by knowing it exists rather than by seeing it projected in front of me.

I never really thought what to do after high school. So I got stuck in the mental health system. I was never that independent or ego driven. So it's hard to tell what it could be other than a lack of self-awareness and I just was delayed or something. In 4 years I never talked to anyone personally. 4 more years I talked to no one personally.

So from my perspective, both my intelligence and social skills atrophied 8-12 years. A normal kid with normal parents will develop normally and that is why they seem more intelligent and more socially competent than I am (especially on YouTube)(INTP forum counts too). My mom has a mental delay where she stares at you and does not respond to questions nor comments. I stair away from people when the question is hard to think about. I do this allot with my therapist not looking at her well talking. But at least I can talk, my mom stands their or in the car and it is nothing.

Currently, I am discovering the inner mental manipulation mechanism of thought along with the external. (inner feedback mechanism)(external feedback mechanism). It seems like I do not have internal mechanisms but that would mean one-fourth of my brain should be doing other things. I believe these to be unconscious inner feedback mechanisms. They are not conscious inner feedback mechanisms. They are doing something even if I am only conscious of external feedback. I feel what needs to be connected and ideas pop out.

I find it difficult that because I could not develop proper social relations with my blank mind, that I was isolated such a long time. I wish I had the social competence of others. I wish I wasn't so atrophied. I am about as normal as I can be I suppose. I should be trying to develop my unconscious inner feedback mechanism.

 

[elliptoid]

If you're having social problems I can tell you why if you send me some bitcoins I will help you friend.

 

[Black Rose]

So funny, assuming I have technical skills and can send you bitcoins unassumingly for quote-unquote "social advice". You are a funny man.

I have no bitcoins, I am not a technical person. I had depression that I was not a technical person. I might be more theoretical. I have ideas I do not know if they are true or not. I have not tested them. I never read the right books to understand computers. I saw some videos on YouTube but got bored. I am watching as many A.I. videos as I can. I am looking into the perception-action cycle.

Socially it is hard to find people like me to be friends with. People become friends with people they get along with. I can only think of the local college where I could find friends. But I do not drive. I worry I will miss the bus. I am just alone forever.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

It's just a matter of practice, letting go of insecurities, and stepping outside one's own head.

 

[elliptoid]

you seem like a candidate to quit the internet.
it's very hard to do i know

 

[Black Rose]

 

[Black Rose]

Jennywocky reminded me of something about video games. I was never good at holding the variables for magic the gathering in my head so I could not find a mathematical way to statically win. Same for Yugio and even Pokemon. The only time I hear of dungeons and dragon was when I was 12 in 2000 from the cartoon Recess. Disney's Recess (Opening Theme) I mostly know what it is about.

But back to video games. In order to play games on a monitor with 50 to 100 characters and items on screen at once, you need working memory. All kinds of working memory. Mostly visual but holding items in your head is very important. And processing speed. The ability to find and utilize information/symbols in tasks. Find the cannon, find the cannon buster, find the troop to protect and lead the cannon buster, cannon buster destroyed. The is processing speed.

I am not good at speed nor immediate quantitative memory tasks. I do have a good memory I once saw a psychologist and he was impressed I remembered almost all the presidents. I knew that Woodrow Wilson was the first president to leave the united states and some people got mad at this. I cannot memorize lists. I was thinking that what makes Ti types logically, which mean smarter than me in logic, is that they can do the logic of complex card games in their heads like I can turn on the lights of my house, easy as pie (my little pony movie reference). That means they hold everything in their heads at once and do logic on it which simply means they try to see if any parts are illogical / contradict the man understandings.

So all this is in there heads and nothing like this is in my head. In my head I go by: is this most likely to be possible or impossible. What are the options not how is the data averaged to fit? I already know it will fit if it is possible, I do not limit myself to a set of data to manipulate which means I am more open but also when it comes to math or card games I sucked and I would cry and I had no friends because we shared nothing in common and I was the only kid with such open crazy creative ideas in the lunch room in middle school.

What I see from INTPs is that they can hold it all in their head. That is like a superpower to me. Some INTP's even can understand my random ideas because they can use a matrix of randomness and see that it is only random because some area needs filling in to complete the logic. Like a scatterplot but in a grid. Everything gets filled in eventually but Ne is so tangential. The Ti superpower then has Ne and can handle the randomness of me as I said but only some INTP's be some are actually ISTJ's who are so, so, so off-put by me and my randomness.

I once made a computer program and it was beautiful how the logic worked because of all the dependencies. Everything flowed into everything else. And numbers represented locations of other numbers in lists. It is hard to describe but the essence is that numbers are in boxes and box 12 can hold the number 7 and 7 can point to box 7 which hold number 5 which could be the value of a node in a neural network. Since I am not a programmer, I have not trained in the terminology I can't tell you how my program works. I am just saying I see it as beautify because it works and I had to understand all the parts working together abstractly. And I wish I understood programming but this was the only time I could make a program. INTP's have the ability to make programs all the time is my assumption, so I am envious just a little. The mental clarity making my program was super high and that is what I want to experience more of.

So more about INTP's. Jenny is an analyst, she must hold information in her head all the time and see what fits and what does not fit. I can't do that. But what I can do, like I said, is find out all the options of possible and impossible. The beginning where I said I have no thoughts and I socially atrophied. That was the time I stopped using my dominant function. I was fluctuating between Ni and Ne. I would have moments of each. Mystical experience, mystical feelings. Listlessness. Depersonalization. egolessness. It was because I was unconscious and that meant I had little agency. Jenny, I bet when she is in the zone gets shit done and is in control and is bad ass at what she does. I was not like that. I had so little direction in what I did. I simply went by what I was feeling at the time because it seemed I was just a wallflower. Easily hurt and overly excited sometimes and they sad because I had no ideas what next to do. If you have Ti this is less a problem because Ti automatical gives you stuff to do. Thinking is self perpetual. The problem with thinking is over thinking but the problem is never that your self ceases to exist and you become a nothingness with no agency.

I love the mystical feelings I have had but not so much the directionless and loss of agency and purpose. I really would like to have mantle cleary. I am good at seeing all the options and possibilities. I think Ti is a superpower. Introverted feeling is part of the mystical feelings stuff I experience sometimes. I think it is too bad Sinny92 was banned because she could have had better behavior. She really was some kind of Ni dom and I needed to help her understand conspiracies more. She was confused by my Ne dom understanding of UFO space travel.

It is true I did not have much of a self for a long time and I was not social. But it is all about conditioning. (not the blank slate) I just need practice, I am practicing. I am trying to find purpose. I just need to feel better and do Extroverted Intuitive activities with friends.

 

[Black Rose]

Oh... this is big. I did not think it was this. had no idea. It was Disassociation. That is why I am so stupid. Life sucks and my life sucked bad. So I disassociated, a lot. Life was empty. So I was empty. Even in middle-school. I watched lots of Japanese Anime that made me feel empty inside, like James and the giant peach did when I was 8 years old. When you disassociate you do not feel feelings because the feelings go deep inside where you cannot feel them but they are still there. Sometimes you just sit there and do nothing because you do feel something so you don't move. In the star wars game when the planet destroyed the pain was so great the exile cut the connection she had with the force. Feelings hurt. Obi One said: feel the force flowing through you. Even in my disassociated state, I understand what people feel.

I never took any drugs besides weed but other times without weed I had mystical/spiritual/visions experience. Never took DMT but I had 4 dreams where I was launched into hyperspace lucid dream into the door after door of my minds sub-realities created at that moment. Terrence Mckenna said all object you can see in 3D are on the surface of a 5D object. This is how deep learning works in neural network artificial intelligence. All objects are in the network. The brain has way more dimensions than computer today at google and facebook. I entered different realities so fast door by door lucid dream. Virtual reality will scan your mind and create realities for you in the 2020's. But I remember that in 2009 at my mom's house I was inducing spiritual experiences. I did it by looking at art, at rainbow realities, at anime. Emotions and Aesthetics. The Matrix. Ghost in the shell. Video games. The Nintendo Wii.

Emotions and Aesthetics.

I was sad in 2010 I could not program the computer. I was sad I was in my apartment by myself. I Disassociated again. I developed a neurosis that I still have. A twisting sensation in my brain and body. I feel the tension and I feel I must squeeze my brain and body. In India, they would understand but I am in America. In India Kundalini and yogi the religion calls it the danger because they contort the body and this can contort the mind. I never practiced yoga or kundalini. never never. In the west we just say neurosis. Neurologist doesn't understand. I was disassociated and Carl Jung said Neurosis comes from doing the opposite of your nature or not balancing your nature. I forced myself to try and try and try to find stuff to do I was sad doing nothing in my apartment so I forced myself to do stuff I was not good at. I was Neurotic so now I have a twisting in my brain/mind. I got a job in 2012 but the damage is done and I am still contorted deep down in my mind/brain.

Disassociation
Neurosis

Both go together why I am messed up.

But I like the library because they have over 10,000 graphic novels which illustrates one fact: Reality is bigger and is created by more genius level people than you can imagine.

A movie trailer that makes your spine tingle. And the movie that meets all expectations of the trailer. Is the mystical experience.

Glow sticks are fun to play with because they are pretty. Life should glow because life should be full of awe and wonder. Think of the most beautiful art you have seen in a graphic novel and imagine a world like it in virtual reality.

 

[Adamastor]

I was sad doing nothing in my apartment so I forced myself to do stuff I was not good at.

Well, I can somewhat relate with your situation (at least as my younger self). Allow me to share how problematic is the above quote of your answer in my humble point of view:

So, doing nothing implies you have to do something and in your case that implies doing something you are not "good at". (Btw, the "being good at" is quite recurrent in your answers)

Well, being "good at something" should be irrelevant by obvious reasons.
Instead you should focus on feeling good about what you do, not "being good" at something that's silly.

Now, if you did not found something that makes you feel good yet, keep looking, you can't be do much better than that (because while you have not found yet in you're miserable anyway).

 

[Black Rose]

Well, what I meant was that it was hard to learn so I would cry because I quote: felt stupid. I would try so hard to learn on my computer I got anxiety and other negative symptoms and damaged my brain. The important thing is I damaged my brain and felt I was worthless and I was alone. I was 23 years old and not in school. Things are different now but they have only been better for 3 months. And even incidents happened in that time. Today I was told my brother smoked meth and hallucinated and was in the hospital. I see my doctor tomorrow and I think we will make progress. Nothing made me feel good in 2010. I have things to do in 2018.

 

[Black Rose]

Imagine this happened to you. (This is just an exercise to demonstrate something). You have just been in a fight with your parents. Yelling anger, shaking from frustration and now you need to get in the car to drive someplace. You get in a car accident. You are O.K. but you are in the hospital room waiting. You have conflict inside where worry and that thing important to you that you were shaking about numbs you. Both things numb you. you are sleep deprived and it feels like warm white noise tv static fills your brain. The warm static energy fills your right frontal lobes area and your brain becomes stuck. You are now limited to what you can think and pushing yourself make the sleep deprivation worse and the mental block worse. You go on for hours in your notebook with your ideas but not at full mental capacity. Your brain stuck by the warm static energy.

The story is just an illustration but I do have these feelings all the time. I do feel stuck, I feel energy. I feel sleep deprived even when I am not because I have to push past the stuckness. It all blends together. Sleep deprivation actually unstucks my brain for brief moments like I drank double expresso latte Starbucks. That is why I stay up as much as possible because of the mental clarity it gives me. If I do not sleep deprive myself I become stuck and sleep deprived. Off my medications, I sleep 18 hours a day. But I hate feeling stuck all the time. Without mental clarity like is just hell.

 

[Black Rose]

Do not worry. All texts are just me trying to get to the root causes. Trying to increase stress relief. Deal with emotions not suppress them. Relaxation, letting go, no need to do anything, slow down. Just let things happen.

Some Blog:

I think I have chronic stress. A doctor once told me you can’t feel your brain but that is stupid. I get burning sensation in my head where the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex is which is connected to the Anterior Cingulate Cortex that controls emotion. If I am under chronic stress it would make sense why I get the burning sensation right there. It is working too hard keeping me stable generating heat. It explains why I have problems I have I told my doctor that is new that I feel stuck and need to use other brain areas to function. Like walking with a paralyzed leg, the other leg works just fine. This is the right DLPFC that I can even right now feel heating up.

Wikipedia – An important function of the DLPFC is the executive functions, such as working memory, cognitive flexibility, planning, inhibition, and abstract reasoning.

Since the right side is dealing with all the stress the left side is fine but I can’t keep going with one side being limp

 

[Black Rose]

I had a severe lack of a sense independence growing up. I had autonomy but in the confines of the rules. I always did my homework and I got to do what I wanted after school. I never felt I had to do stuff by myself. There was nothing I wanted to do like drive a car. It just was not important to me. Freedom was not important. Control over my life was not important. I just wanted to learn stuff and do projects. That collapsed after graduation. Became disassociated for about 6 years starting in 2007. Got bad anxiety starting in 2010. Severe depression in 2014. I am better now but I still am not independent. People take care of my money and I still cannot drive a car. I do not go places I mostly use the internet. But. My therapist has friends she says will talk to me about my ideas. I had a hard time going to school because of my problems. I would have difficulties talking to people otherwise without my therapist about things that interest me. Because of my mental states, I have difficulty just being at my computer 8 hours a day. I find it hard to read books, but I just have nothing else to do. the bookstore and library I have found boring a long time. I did not know how to meet people. Bars are for brain dead people.

To me, I guess independence would be working on projects not necessarily driving a car. I do not really see that I want anything in life, I have more abstract goals so independence or control of my life seems neutral to me like driving cars. What is it I am supposed to control? I do not want to be rich I just want to work on ideas and I tried that,11 years I tried so I am just not an independent person. But I try. I don't want to drive a car. I have been working on smart computers. And I am going to talk to people at the university with my therapist.

 

[Terry_hesticles]

I had a severe lack of a sense independence growing up. I had autonomy but in the confines of the rules. I always did my homework and I got to do what I wanted after school. I never felt I had to do stuff by myself. There was nothing I wanted to do like drive a car. It just was not important to me. Freedom was not important. Control over my life was not important. I just wanted to learn stuff and do projects. That collapsed after graduation. Became disassociated for about 6 years starting in 2007. Got bad anxiety starting in 2010. Severe depression in 2014. I am better now but I still am not independent. People take care of my money and I still cannot drive a car. I do not go places I mostly use the internet. But. My therapist has friends she says will talk to me about my ideas. I had a hard time going to school because of my problems. I would have difficulties talking to people otherwise without my therapist about things that interest me. Because of my mental states, I have difficulty just being at my computer 8 hours a day. I find it hard to read books, but I just have nothing else to do. the bookstore and library I have found boring a long time. I did not know how to meet people. Bars are for brain dead people.

To me, I guess independence would be working on projects not necessarily driving a car. I do not really see that I want anything in life, I have more abstract goals so independence or control of my life seems neutral to me like driving cars. What is it I am supposed to control? I do not want to be rich I just want to work on ideas and I tried that,11 years I tried so I am just not an independent person. But I try. I don't want to drive a car. I have been working on smart computers. And I am going to talk to people at the university with my therapist.

I think I know the state you are in. I was there and might still be, but am currently transitioning into a different more normal state.
Bear with me here because most of these thoughts have been kept in my head so I will do my best to give my input on the troubles of being in this “nothingness” state and how to possibly get out.
You are definitely right about dissociation. I think that’s a coping mechanism only available to certain people who developed off course in their childhood. One theory that I have for this ‘nothingness’ state is that it is an overactive thought generator. Thoughts can sometimes become too complex and dense to be analyzed on the spot and have to be unraveled in writing. If you evolve in such a way where you only use these dense and complex forms of thought, you will essentially close yourself off to more simple, easy to understand thoughts.
The problem with this, is that you’re not constantly writing, so a lot of your thoughts will remain unprocessed. And unprocessed thoughts linger in the brain as “static”. The bad thing about this static is that it can filled up with delusional thoughts that are wild and clearly untrue. So until you process all of the ‘static’, chances are, you’re beliefs will be riddled with fallacies,paranoia, and delusions.
That’s why you have to process your thoughts and free write very often to understand what’s coming into your brain. (I’m sure you might notice your head feels cleaner after writing your thoughts).
But it doesn’t stop there. Once you discover them you have to expand on each thought in a way that is only understood by yourself in order to fully process them. This should allow you to take a step forward.

it is also possible to just think differently, but it’s tricky. The only way I’ve found how to transform my thoughts into more normal simple patterns is to empathize with people. By empathizing with people you become them, you’re brain has a chance to test drive their brain and pick up some of their patterns. This might be a weak explanation, but social activity seems to be the only way I’ve found to really think in a normal way that doesn’t require so much work to process.
This is what can be difficult if you don’t already have friends or family to empathize with. If it werent for my friends I would be stuck with these dense thoughts and would have to write and work much more to live appropriately and not collapse into depression.

Not sure if you find anything of interest in my wall of text but f you do please tell bc I would love to try to expand and discover new ideas because I might be on to something. Sadly, I still can’t trust myself and need validation to know if my theories are worthy or not.