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Ni?

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I've just completed a cognitive processes test (http://www.keys2cognition.com/cgi/survey48.pl) that brought something to my attention: while my Ne is in excellent use, and scored just below Ti (which is obviously expected of an INTP), my Ni is in really good use as well.

This lead me, naturally, to the realization that I don't understand Ni very well. I've read a few articles on the function, but a competent understanding of it still eludes me.

Does anyone with a broader knowledge of the functions have an adequate (and NOT vague, like all others I've seen) description? Or possibly even some plausible examples of Ni in action?
 
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Ni is a trippy function. To really get it, you need to talk to an INJ on and off about it, and good luck getting them to be able to put it in words.

It's described as a "psychic awareness of the intangible." It takes a whole bunch of stuff and searches them for patterns themes and systems towards realizations, towards the essence behind them, to understand the meaning and significance of them.

It views everything in a broad and complex way. Unconscious images are as real to them as anything tangible. They have a sense of just knowing things; this understanding of what is up. Unlike Ne which goes from one thing to expand out to related things, Ni takes a bunch of things and comes up with the insight at the core of those many things. It heavily uses symbols.

Like Ne it infers things from the concrete world. A tree represents a forest, represents the symbols of mother earth, and all that. Influenced by atmosphere and looking for the bigger picture.

Hope this helps.
 
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What I'm gathering from this is that Ne expands outwards from gathered information, generating new ideas and possibilities, whereas Ni expands (for lack of a more adequate description) inwards, taking the gathered information and working it towards the origin or essence of it.
 

TimeAsylums

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I've read a few articles on the function, but a competent understanding of it still eludes me.

Does anyone with a broader knowledge of the functions have an adequate (and NOT vague, like all others I've seen) description? Or possibly even some plausible examples of Ni in action?

You want in depth?

http://personalitycafe.com/infj-12/solitarywalker-s-infj-profile-375/
quoted beneath (Ni)

Quote:
I.Introverted Intuition
“Introverted Intuition is directed to the inner object, a term that might justly be applied to the contents of the unconscious. The relation of inner objects to consciousness is entirely analogous to that of outer objects, though their reality is not physical, but psychic. They appear to intuitive perception as subjective images of things which, though not to be met with in the outside world, constitute the contents of the unconscious, and of the collective unconscious in particular.”


Introverted Intuition is an irrational function by the previously established definition. It does not rely on conscious scrutiny for assessment, but to something most closely in tune to the colloquial notion of 'hunches'. Since such Intuitive force is intuitively aimed, unlike the Extroverted Intuition, it requires very little external stimulus. We also know that Intuition is an information collecting faculty--as it is a perceiving function. Here we are struck by a paradox that Intuition is primarily concerned with collection of information, yet at the same time seems to rely little on the external stimulus. This leads us to question whether such an information collecting faculty truly does suffice to adequately collect information. Does it fall to the same malady Jung has evinced in Introverted Sensing?


"Even with only a slight increase in the power of the unconscious, the subjective component of sensation becomes so alive that it almost completely obscures the influence of the object. If the object is a person, he feels completely devalued, while the subject has an illusory conception of reality, which in pathological cases goes so far that he is no longer able to distinguish between the real object and the subjective perceptions....Actually he lives in a mythological world, where men, animals, locomotives, houses, rivers, and mountains appear either as benevolent deities or as malevolent demons. That they appear thus to him never enters his head, though that is just the effect they have on his judgments and actions. He judges and acts as though he had such powers to deal with; but this begins to strike him only when he discovers that his sensations are totally different from reality."

What, one may wonder, accounts for such a striking difference between the object itself and the IJ's perception thereof? Could it be due to the fact that this perception is Introverted? Namely that it defines the object by the internal agenda and the internal agenda itself is rarely clearly pronounced as it is an irrational function. Thus, if this were the case, the way the object is perceived is directly filtered through the scope of the introverted perception. For this reason, the objects are not assessed in terms of their own validity, but in terms of how they relate to the perceiver. Therefore, the perceiver tends to assume that the objects are much like himself, as he sees locomotives and animals as demons or benevolent deities.

The accentuation here was on the locomotives and animals because the Introverted Sensing type, the type that the previous quotation meant to depict is focused primarily on concrete things--or sensations. Hence, he anthropomorphizes concrete entities. Or assumes that the objects in themselves have much to do with his own personal qualities. This is precisely the reason why we often have seen eyes on the Moon, the nose on the sun, and the Sword in the hands of the cloud. So our mythologies have compelled us to see!

However, since Introverted Intuition, the function by which the INFJ is led is abstract, it tends not to see the external world in this fashion. However, the relationship it has to abstract perceptions is indeed much analogous to the relationship Introverted Sensing has to concrete data. Thus, Introverted Sensing anthropomorphizes the physical world, Introverted Intuition, almost wholly without a doubt, anthropomorphizes abstractions and ideas. For this reason it is not uncommon for INJ philosophers and scientists to be observed deeming some ideas as wicked and others as benevolent without having any reasonable explanations for such taxonomy. That is because there truly is not an explanation for such a thing, as judgments of the like reflect more about them personally rather than about the matter they have commented on and therefore often serves as evidence of their personal biases and prejudices.



Because the way they interact with the world is necessarily influenced by their subjective perceptions, they are automatically drawn to focus most intensely on ideas that their unconscious minds tend to gravitate towards most. Such ideas soon flourish to be of solid and constant conscious interest in which their whole being shall be thoroughly imbued. This is an allusion to an earlier remark concerning how INJs tend to see abstract ideas as similar to themselves due to the anthropomorphic quality of introverted perception. This is more so for the INFJ than the INTJ as the former has a more personal and less logically rigorous approach to life. Conversely, ideas that are not in tune with their unconscious predilections, will be paid little heed to. This is where the INJ stands in sharp contrast with their Extroverted Intuitive counterparts who lack focus of perception because they are forced to confront all external phenomena at once. Introverted Intuition, however, has a distinct idea which entities are worthy of perception. To an outside observer, such judgments often appear arbitrary, yet this is more than likely the case because such Intuitive perceptions have a lot more to do with the inner life of the perceiver rather than the external world. The subject distinctly holds primacy over the object, and the Intuition itself has a clear notion of what is worthy of focus.


"Like sensation, intuition has its subjective factor, which is suppressed as much as possible in extraverted attitude but is the decisive factor in the intuition of the introvert. Although his intuition may be stimulated by external objects, it does not concern itself with external possibilities but with what the external object has released within him."

Thus, unlike the Extroverted Intuition that is concerned with collection of all ideas and assesses them based on how such ideas influence the external environment, the Introverted Intuition assesses such hunches based on its internal agenda and is interested strictly in ideas that befit the previously established agenda. Whilst Extroverted Intuition requires continuous stimulation, Introverted Intuition runs on itself. The Extrovert will be forced to engage himself in abstract external activities, such as writing or debating to maintain his world of ideas, yet the Introverted Intuition requires no more than a solitary retreat. The more peaceful the environment, the better, to a greater degree the vivid imagination shall flourish. Thus for an INJ, it would hardly be hyperbolic to claim that the creative energy derives literally from nowhere.

"The extravert would say: "Reality does not exist for him, he gives up to fruitless fantasies." The perception of the images of the unconscious, produced in such inexhaustible abundance by the creative energy of life, is of course fruitless from the standpoint of immediate utility. But may give life a new potential, this function, which to the outside world is the strangest of all, is as indispensable to the total psychic economy as is the corresponding human type to the psychic life of a people. Had this type not existed, there would have been no prophets in Israel."

Incidentally, here we touch basis upon the notion of the introverted perceiving faculty to anthropomorphize. For this reason ideas generated by these types appear flattering to men, as they seem to suggest to us that the greatest possible essences of the universe have much to do with our tastes and prejudices. No doubt, the greatest religions of the world are thoroughly imbued in personalities of their initial propounders. As the God of Christianity is much similar to Jesus, of Islam--Muhammad and respectively Moses for Judaism. There also could hardly be a doubt that many of the most influential prophets in those religions were INJs. More of them were more likely to be INFJs than INTJs because the Extroverted Feeling aspect strongly gravitates towards presenting their vision to the common folk and making it part of societal life in a very systematic fashion. But this is a note to be expounded on further in our next section on Extroverted Feeling.

Such ideas of the Introverted perception are highly abstract as this type is most intuitive of all--due to the intensification factor of introversion. As a matter of this discovery, the INFJ turns out to be the most intuitive of all types because Feeling imposes less limitations on the perception than Thinking. Feeling is not a tough-minded function and is therefore more easily diluted by foreign elements than Thinking. For this reason Extroverted Feeling contains less of the judging element than Extroverted Thinking and therefore countervails the perception of Introverted Intuition to a much lower degree. Incidentally the perceptions of the INJ are ineffable and cannot be properly transmuted into the realm of concrete phenomena. When they do attempt to, their initial hunches are either grotesquely distorted or lost altogether. However, the Intuitionist himself appears much content with merely having the hunches that he has as they adequately guide him, even if he cannot duly explain it to others. Once more this is even more fitting to the INFJ as he relies less on objective assessment of his ideas than the INTJ for the reason mentioned earlier.

You asked for it.
 
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What I'm gathering from this is that Ne expands outwards from gathered information, generating new ideas and possibilities, whereas Ni expands (for lack of a more adequate description) inwards, taking the gathered information and working it towards the origin or essence of it.

Yes and those intuitive essences behind things are implied by what is experienced and as real as what is experienced itself.
 

Obsidian

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Basically, it detects hidden patterns based on a experience, and it senses probability, also based on experience
 

John_Mann

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Ni it's equal to focus in near future. Ni start in present (Se) and make an insight of what will happen in near future. Or Ni abstractly sums up the present moment in just one insight (A-ha moment). Ni is very very fast.

Ni works with probability (I have 95% certainty this thing is that way). Ne works with many possibilities.

Ni's can be very paranoid and dazzled if the expected future came to another direction.

Ne starts in past (Si) and goes to a far future.

Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.
 

Architect

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Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.

NICE! Seriously well done, that captures it perfectly. Wow ...

Otherwise you probably don't use Ni but just took a test that indicated that through your misconstrued answers.
 

Foxman49

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Two other analogies I like are:
1. Ne is a crazy fractal patten while Ni is a multifaceted diamond
2. Ne is a river that rapidly branches into various tributaries while Ni is the freaking Amazon, one large stream of water.

NICE! Seriously well done, that captures it perfectly. Wow ...

Otherwise you probably don't use Ni but just took a test that indicated that through your misconstrued answers.

I guess we often score high with Ni in cognitive function tests because some intuitive abilities overlap. Both Ni and Ne users can be highly imaginative, for example, but this trait is typically view as Ni's domain.
 

scorpiomover

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Ni it's equal to focus in near future. Ni start in present (Se) and make an insight of what will happen in near future. Or Ni abstractly sums up the present moment in just one insight (A-ha moment). Ni is very very fast.

Ni works with probability (I have 95% certainty this thing is that way). Ne works with many possibilities.

Ni's can be very paranoid and dazzled if the expected future came to another direction.

Ne starts in past (Si) and goes to a far future.

Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.
An excellent summary of Ne & Ni.
 

Cherry Cola

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Ni is a trippy function. To really get it, you need to talk to an INJ on and off about it, and good luck getting them to be able to put it in words.

It's described as a "psychic awareness of the intangible." It takes a whole bunch of stuff and searches them for patterns themes and systems towards realizations, towards the essence behind them, to understand the meaning and significance of them.

It views everything in a broad and complex way. Unconscious images are as real to them as anything tangible. They have a sense of just knowing things; this understanding of what is up. Unlike Ne which goes from one thing to expand out to related things, Ni takes a bunch of things and comes up with the insight at the core of those many things. It heavily uses symbols.

Like Ne it infers things from the concrete world. A tree represents a forest, represents the symbols of mother earth, and all that. Influenced by atmosphere and looking for the bigger picture.

Hope this helps.

Yeah that's how I experience it. And you're on spot with how to "get it" as well I think. I mean its weird enough for me to have great trouble describing it, I'd do far worse than you unless I really sat down for some time to try and put it in words.

John_Mann: Brilliant on the wave functions, I think that touches the essence of it.
 

TimeAsylums

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One more:

http://www.typologycentral.com/foru...t-does-extroverted-intuition-look-like-2.html

Ne says: There are so many possible interpretations of this; I should learn all of them so that I can have the greatest chance of approximating a truly objective viewpoint. Ne leaves no stone unturned in its search for new patterns and puzzles to play with, which leads it to an occasional huge breakthrough, but largely a lot of toying around and finding nothing all that useful.

Ni says: There are so many possible interpretations of this that true objectivity is not worth searching for. I should simply choose the approach that seems most intuitively correct to me and stick with that until shown a compelling reason that I should change my interpretation--especially when coupled with Te, it often says that if we spend too much time analyzing EVERY possible interpretation, we're wasting time that could be spent toward reaching measurable goals. Ni is very aware of numerous different possible interpretations--so aware, in fact, that it sees everything as totally up to interpretation--but doesn't tend to like the idea of trying to incorporate too many perspectives into one methodology...that's simply inefficient.
__________________________ ______________________________

extraverted intution is about exploring multiple perspectives to be closer to true objectivity, introverted intution is about finding the transcendent perspective that incorporates all other perspectives. what the person observes) beyond it's surface appearance, which allows them to see potential. Think of Se but with more abstraction. Ni is like Ne but the process in inverted inwards towards the subject (the person). Ni perceives what lies just beyond our consciousness, for example the reasons underlying our motives (i.e. am I really doing this for altruism or for ulterior motives). Intuition is a perceiving function. Ne is the perception of the essence of objects, Ni is the perception of the essence of the subject.
 

Puffy

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I Like Spiralhacker and John Mann's descriptions. I'm likely INFJ, so I'm unsure how well it would fit INTJ:

I had a really odd moment a few hours ago that's relevant. I'd been working on an essay on an Alfred Hitchcock film in my graduate MA, and luckily had the chance to share it with an expert in the field. He called me on skype shortly after reading it and said, and I quote, that "it's evident I have a boner for the film", and that though the feeling might be transient to myself that it's evident to those around me from my writing that I'm obsessed (in a productive/ creative sense.)

For some reason when he said that I felt kind of exposed -- like he'd sussed out my driving motivations and source of ideas. I think he was basically describing my Ni. I asked him about Jungian types and he said he was an Ni dom too (small world :ahh:).

I think he's right though -- I'd describe Ni as "obsessive." It's like there is this pattern, and I'm enabled in writing about something so far as it expresses this pattern. But as soon as I'm forced to study something in unrelated territory I switch off (or are much more likely to). I'd say Ni doms can be very self-absorbed people in that sense. Prone to William S Burroughs hermit phases.

This is something which distinguishes it as J, directive, (seeking something specific), rather than P. The pattern can still be very broad in what it covers, it just seems evidently there, there's less of a sense of study for study's sake. This perhaps makes it directive (J) too - there's a goal, a pursuit. The sensation can be like a kind of internal destiny; we're riding something that isn't fully in our control.

I think this is what it means for Ni to be a worldview function. There's a tendency for Ni doms to attach to their pattern to such an extent that they see it as "the pattern" (think someone like Jung.) There's a vision, and the fulfillment of Ni is the realisation of this vision over a very long span of time (I'm tempted to conclude that Ni doms are relatively late bloomers).

So yeah, intense, obsessive, long-term realisation of "hunches", etc. People who cover their walls in newspaper clippings. :D
 

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Ni says: There are so many possible interpretations of this that true objectivity is not worth searching for. I should simply choose the approach that seems most intuitively correct to me and stick with that until shown a compelling reason that I should change my interpretation--especially when coupled with Te, it often says that if we spend too much time analyzing EVERY possible interpretation, we're wasting time that could be spent toward reaching measurable goals. Ni is very aware of numerous different possible interpretations--so aware, in fact, that it sees everything as totally up to interpretation--but doesn't tend to like the idea of trying to incorporate too many perspectives into one methodology...that's simply inefficient.

This is dead on as far as my experiences go.
 

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It's really hard to understand perception processes properly when they are personified with thinking abilities.
 

John_Mann

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I try to develop my Ni with some kind of (silly?) exercises.

When I'm in a huge place I always try to focus in something that's the central point of what I'm seeing. Kind of Sansom searching for the temple's pillars. It's very funny to do that! That's Ni with Te to me.

And when I'm in a new group of people (Ni+Fe) I try to spot the informal leader and then try to sum up the one best talk approach to him/her.

My sister and my best male friend are ENFJ's. They're very good in get the right insight of what people most like or dislike. I call them the social architects.

That's my way to intuitively interact with people.

Lately I'm trying to develop Ni in ideas using aphorisms.
 

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I think you might be able to see it in ENFJ... They seem to be pretty spot on with stuff (sometimes they push buttons) and that might be because it is coupled with Fe. As far as the process goes it's as if they choose the best probability based off how well they know you or the situation, which from my experience can lead to rather inaccurate, or as I'd like to think of them, 'embarrassing' conclusions.
But sometimes they are relatively spot on similar to Ne in social environments, I suppose. A conclusion wouldn't be drawn from immediate environment. I think they can take it via Se and then consider possibilities based off something somewhat similar to Si... It might be different from Ne because they aren't necessarily, from my understanding of it, taking in possibilities from the immediate environment. Ti is technically there too, and I think at this point it might be somewhat easy to spot in somewhat that might be ENFJ. They would actually do and participate in discussion related to "deep" or "discussion worthy" things, ie not small talk or immediate social issues, but more abstract concepts on any relative scale I suppose. The interest they demonstrate is an interesting contrast to the usual manners which can be associated to them via testimony or hours spent with person in question. I'm not sure if I've met enough people though.
 

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Ni start in present (Se) and make an insight of what will happen in near future. Or Ni abstractly sums up the present moment in just one insight (A-ha moment). Ni is very very fast.
Don't you instead think Ni starts with the most likely / probable future, then works it up to the present (Se) ? Hence why Ni is "visionnary", seeing what is most likely to be later, much later at times...

I think while Ne works with contingency / possibilities, Ni works with necessity...


Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.
Ive just seen this. I am with Architect: i like that too ! Summarizes the whole thing concisely and perfectly.

Ni collapses the wave function into the present (Se): there is only one possibility (out of many Ne would yet perceive and couldn't discriminate from).
 

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My girlfriend is an INTJ, I find the Ni interesting... she has described it as just "knowing things" without having to think about them at all and sometimes feeling psychic. To me, she seemed to be rushing into decisions (especially at first), but she's usually correct. In a situation where something had to be spontaneously decided, I would probably defer to her on it because it plays to this strength. Something that required more detail, I would probably supply her with as much info as I could and let her decide anyway. Its nice to have someone around that commits and will actually get stuff done. I read somewhere that Ni people can literally sleep on something and wake up knowing the answer.
 

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I read somewhere that Ni people can literally sleep on something and wake up knowing the answer.

Exactly what my ENFJ friend always says: "Nothing better than a good night's sleep!"
 

John_Mann

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Don't you instead think Ni starts with the most likely / probable future, then works it up to the present (Se) ?

Indeed it's a better explanation. Ne starts with Si and Ni goes to Se.



Originally Posted by John_Mann:
Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.

That's just my Ne figuring out Ni through wild associations! LOL
 

John_Mann

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If QM it's not familiar to you just take Ne as a wave and Ni as a particle.

Ne knows that every path leads to Rome so doesn't matter which one to follow, but Ni only wants the shortest path.
 

DIALECTIC

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Ne is compulsive...
Ni is obsessive...

Ne starts with Si.
That's why Ne gets better and better with time and the rememberance of past data / errors / successes / moods / body sensations (Si). Until Si gets strong enough later in life, using Ne is more like guess work... Si creates a very detailled existencial map over time; Ne exploits it.

That's just my Ne figuring out Ni through wild associations! LOL
Love it.
Love all good analogies / associations, worth one thousand words ! That's why i find Nietzsche so damn efficient to intuitively connect with our personal unconscious...

Ne knows that every path leads to Rome so doesn't matter which one to follow, but Ni only wants the shortest path.
Again, can't we just say the same about Ti, Si and Fi too as opposed to Te, Se and Fe ?

A few months ago i speculated that all introverted functions were basically "matured" versions of their extroverted counterparts ! I now speculate and wonder if extroverted functions could in fact naturally "evolve" into introverted functions over a life time ?
 

John_Mann

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Ne is compulsive...
Ni is obsessive...


That's why Ne gets better and better with time and the rememberance of past data / errors / successes / moods / body sensations (Si). Until Si gets strong enough later in life, using Ne is more like guess work... Si creates a very detailled existencial map over time; Ne exploits it.

Exactly.

A few months ago i speculated that all introverted functions were basically "matured" versions of their extroverted counterparts ! I now speculate and wonder if extroverted functions could in fact naturally "evolve" into introverted functions over a life time ?

In my understanding we use the E functions when we interact with people and the environment. Even inside our minds (Ne with the help of Si) this can happen when we remember exactly what someone said, what happened, what we'd read, etc.

The I functions we use when we are immersed in our minds (including the moment when you stop talking and listen your interlocutor).

So we'll never stop to use E functions or I functions. I think they can evolve in sense of sintonia (tuning) with each other.
 

DIALECTIC

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Exactly.

In my understanding we use the E functions when we interact with people and the environment. Even inside our minds (Ne with the help of Si) this can happen when we remember exactly what someone said, what happened, what we'd read, etc.

The I functions we use when we are immersed in our minds (including the moment when you stop talking and listen your interlocutor).

So we'll never stop to use E functions or I functions. I think they can evolve in sense of sintonia (tuning) with each other.

Do you therefore think matured / "atuned" Ne + Si could sort of emulate Ni ?

Therefore maybe also atuned Ni + Se emulating Ne, Ti + Fe emulating Fi and so on with all couples of functions at very specifici times ("the Flow") uniting / SYNTHESIZING each into one super function ? See my avatar for what i exactly mean:

in our case, the THETIC finite past (Si) + the ANTITHETIC inifinite potential (Ne) = the SYNTHETIC most probable future (Ni) to actualize...
 

John_Mann

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Do you therefore think matured / "atuned" Ne + Si could sort of emulate Ni ?

Therefore maybe also atuned Ni + Se emulating Ne, Ti + Fe emulating Fi and so on with all couples of functions at very specifici times ("the Flow") uniting / SYNTHESIZING each into one super function ? See my avatar for what i exactly mean:

in our case, the THETIC finite past (Si) + the ANTITHETIC inifinite potential (Ne) = the SYNTHETIC most probable future (Ni) to actualize...

Interesting idea.

But it can be superfluous considering we use all 8 functions even those not technically present in the type.

MBTI it's all about natural preferences upon cognitive functions.

Your idea can be a kind of an ideal mechanism of how the perception functions could work together:

Si-> Ne-> Ni-> Se.

IMO we can achieve better decisions doing this filtration through all functions.

The ideal brainstorm must have at least one person with dominant type of every function.

It's a great exercise to our Ti simulate a brainstorm between the functions.

Actually I'm trying to do that since I learned about MBTI.

Si: How I achieved a past important decision?

Se: What is important now?

Ne: What will be important in future?

Ni: How can I achieve what is important now?

It's the very demonstration of how 5W2H method could work.
 

louiesgonnadie

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Ne it's the wave function. Ni it's the wave function collapse.

I know this is based on/compared to quantum mechanics, but I don't understand this comparison. heh, it's probably because I have no clue about quantum mechanics...
 

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I know this is based on/compared to quantum mechanics, but I don't understand this comparison. heh, it's probably because I have no clue about quantum mechanics...

- Wave function (Quantum / subatomic world) = All possibilities coexist !

- Collapse of the Wave function (Newtonian / macro world) = Thru observation / interaction with an isolated Quantum system, all possibilities collapse into only one !
 

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I like to define functions using the concept of zooming.

Se: Literal zoom out
Ni: Abstract zoom in
Si: Literal zoom in
Ne: Abstract zoom out

This is a very helpful rule of thumb.
 

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5,646
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Se-Ni: bottom-up
Si-Ne: top-down

Se-Si: bottom-top
Ni-Ne: up-down

S is discrete, fixed locations
N is dynamic, directions

just tinkering...
 
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