Ni - perceptive of human nature?

[Teohrn]

While reading Schopenhauer's "The Art of Controversy" the thought that the Ni-confident seem to possess a keen ability to penetrate into the human psyche popped up.

I base this on a few Ni-confident (i.e. dominant or auxiliary Ni) philosophers, authors and psychologists, who all seemingly had this peculiar ability - all of them were renown for their apt discernment of human nature, or at least they commented greatly on it. The aforementioned Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Freud and Jung, I guess, along with others.

Seeing this in myself plays a role seeing as I'm a possible Ni-dom.

Does anyone see any the same pattern? Is it because of the Ni quality of having intuitions which they then confidently trust; in other words, is it because they are likely to make strong assertions on human nature? Am I wrong? Am I speaking of something that I have no idea of? And so on and so forth.

 

[Ink]

Jung typed himself as Ti-Ne and Freud as Fi-Ne, so those examples aren't the greatest I guess... I have great difficulty understanding how Ni works though, as soon as I think I understand it something new makes me doubt that understanding...

 

[Teohrn]

Jung typed himself as Ti-Ne and Freud as Fi-Ne, so those examples aren't the greatest I guess... I have great difficulty understanding how Ni works though, as soon as I think I understand it something new makes me doubt that understanding...

Jung typed himself as ISTP too. Keirsey identifies him as an INFJ. There's a lack of tangibility with Jung that makes me think he was INFJ. INFJs are Ni-doms like INTJs, but they lack Te, which is oriented towards the exterior and objects which makes them more empirical and lucid than INFJs. INFJs are oriented towards the metaphysical, while INTJs are oriented towards the physical, generally.

Jung identified Freud as an ESTJ as well. Freud was quite the opposite of feeler, or at least empathic. The foremost reason Jung and Freud split was because Freud couldn't accept Jung's dissent in thoughts as his pupil; Freud was a intellectual dictator and possibly a narcissist. Quite contrary to those with dom/aux Fi, Freud saw no value in art, which is typical of Te users. Freud is probably xNTJ. Some describe him as an introvert, others as an extrovert.

"I have found little that is "good" about human beings on the whole. In my experience most of them are trash, no matter whether they publicly subscribe to this or that ethical doctrine or to none at all. That is something that you cannot say aloud, or perhaps even think." - Freud

"The liberty of the individual is no gift of civilization. It was greatest before there was any civilization." - Freud

"Men are strong so long as they represent a strong idea they become powerless when they oppose it." - Freud

"Sadism is all right in its place, but it should be directed to proper ends." - Freud

However, whether Jung and Freud possessed Ni or not, and they very likely did, this is all irrelevant to the topic, which is the Ni insight into the human psyche.

My understanding of Ni is as follows:

Ni is quite abstract-oriented and often deals with will-power, the force of the will of the Ni user fuels the Ni and directs the Ni-dom towards a few goals with strong determination. They are often very ideological. Marx, Nietzsche, Rand and Hitler, for instance. They often understand their own ideas as being indisputably in the right.

The other aspect of it is its insight, which I touched upon in the OP. Ni users tend to get insight, basically eureka moments, often seemingly out of nothing. Ni is also oriented towards the future. They're quite visionary. However, because it is the opposite of Se, it rarely deals with that which is tangible. One could say that whereas Se-doms can't see anything that isn't planted in immediate reality, Ni-doms don't notice things right in front of them (and sometimes reality itself ). From this we have that they read between the lines, and often like to interpret, which at times can be to the chagrin of objectivity, because they interpret and channel information to the benefit of their ideas and convictions.

As mentioned, sudden insights is part of it. One benefit I have of it is that I can gather a small foundation of information on something, a small piece of the body, and I gain an intuitive understanding of the whole, just from that particular. Basically, just as I enter the dark tunnel, I arrive at the other end to see the light at the end. It fills in blanks, but it also excludes possibilities. Whereas Ne is expansive, Ni is contractive. Ne is an explosion of ideas, Ni is an implosion of ideas.

Ni also deals quite heavily in literary techniques due to abstract-mindedness. Metaphor, parable, allegory... you name it, anything. That's why they're seen as gifted orators, often as prophetic.

 

[Architect]

My Ni-Fe INFJ wife has a spotlight into human nature. She's aware of what's going on in my head before I'm aware of it. Is that due to Ni primarily, or the NF/INFJ functional stack? I don't know, at the least we can hypothesize that Ni does contribute to this.

Overtly I see that Ni is a possibility finder. Talking to an INFJ is like herding a cat, they keep going in a different direction.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

Freud saw no value in art

Really? I thought he refused to treat Van Gogh because he didn't want to mess with genius.

 

[snafupants]

Does anyone see any the same pattern? Is it because of the Ni quality of having intuitions which they then confidently trust; in other words, is it because they are likely to make strong assertions on human nature? Am I wrong? Am I speaking of something that I have no idea of? And so on and so forth.

@Teohrn

It doesn't matter if you wallop home or whisper an assertion - strength doesn't change the veracity of the statement. Truth can be muttered or trumpeted; either way, truth and falsehood are dissimilar. I should say that each has a hand to play in most assertions. You can call an ascetic a saint, but he's still a sinner, or at least he has such a past. So, why is Ni so probing? It sees these distinctions and is conformable with commingling opposites and reconciling paradoxes. Introverted intuition perceives the whole picture. In many ways, introverted intuition uncovers and strips concepts, and people, down to essentials. Why does compulsory education exist? Did she inevitably need to do date that person? What does it say about her? The problem, as Wittgenstein and Jung frequently noted, is bringing perception to "reality" through judgement. Ni doesn't want to be caged. Lou Reed is right when he says, between thought and expression lies a lifetime. For Jung, therein lies the problem and necessity of judgement for the introverted intuitive.

 

[Teohrn]

My Ni-Fe INFJ wife has a spotlight into human nature. She's aware of what's going on in my head before I'm aware of it. Is that due to Ni primarily, or the NF/INFJ functional stack? I don't know, at the least we can hypothesize that Ni does contribute to this.

Overtly I see that Ni is a possibility finder. Talking to an INFJ is like herding a cat, they keep going in a different direction.

Compare an INFJ to an ISFJ and ESFJ. The two latter might understand human social rules and all of that, but do they see through it and do they know anything of the human condition, human nature itself? I think not. All intuitives are better at that. Ni often sees the unseen, it doesn't necessarily draw its understanding from experience. But if one relies on experience, one will not learn much about humans. People are deceptive and do not show all there is to them. Ni can through pure insight learn about human nature. Others need to experience it, but those experiences will always be lacking. Moreover, some people are more prone to question, especially intuitives. If Fe only was responsible, then INFJs wouldn't be better at it than xSFJs. Ni, and probably N in general, must be partially responsible, even for thinkers. Interestingly, the way INFJs and ENFJs work seems very different. ENFJs seem to always want to gather people towards a common cause and things like that. INFJs seem more interested in contemplation.

Really? I thought he refused to treat Van Gogh because he didn't want to mess with genius.

He also said something like it being useless. It may perhaps have been he appreciated genius in itself.

@Teohrn

It doesn't matter if you wallop home or whisper an assertion - strength doesn't change the veracity of the statement. Truth can be muttered or trumpeted; either way, truth and falsehood are dissimilar. I should say that each has a hand to play in most assertions. You can call an ascetic a saint, but he's still a sinner, or at least he has such a past. So, why is Ni so probing? It sees these distinctions and is conformable with commingling opposites and reconciling paradoxes. Introverted intuition perceives the whole picture. In many ways, introverted intuition uncovers and strips concepts, and people, down to essentials. Why does compulsory education exist? Did she inevitably need to do date that person? What does it say about her? The problem, as Wittgenstein and Jung frequently noted, is bringing perception to "reality" through judgement. Ni doesn't want to be caged. Lou Reed is right when he says, between thought and expression lies a lifetime. For Jung, therein lies the problem and necessity of judgement for the introverted intuitive.

Surely it doesn't, but there are things some people may be more prone to say, whereas others aren't. What if the essential qualities of human nature is understood by all yet at the same time the blue elephant in the room? Most people won't point it out, while Ni may. With that said, I don't believe it's the reason, I just saw it as a possibility.

Otherwise, I think we were on to the same idea. Ni searches for the core of things rather than the exterior of it, which is why Ni is so perceptive of human nature. At the same time, perceptions need to be refined through judgement, or else it's just perception.

 

[Seally]

My Ni-Fe INFJ wife has a spotlight into human nature. She's aware of what's going on in my head before I'm aware of it. Is that due to Ni primarily, or the NF/INFJ functional stack? I don't know, at the least we can hypothesize that Ni does contribute to this.

Overtly I see that Ni is a possibility finder. Talking to an INFJ is like herding a cat, they keep going in a different direction.

It's more about potential than possibilities, as Ni connections tend to be more linear than Ne connections. If we meet someone who seems amazingly good at something with highly innovative ideas, for example, Ni might imagine that person's potential in relevant fields. We might try to encourage that someone to try similar things or apply for jobs we believe they may be successful in. (This part is more Je, though.) This is a relatively basic use of Ni. But as you may have guessed, this 'potential detection skill' can go both ways.

Similar to Si, Ni is prone to focusing on one piece of data and distrusting all others. If we see a graph that says humanity is doomed because of ever decreasing rationality, we might believe it and start preparing for doomsday. (Maybe even try to cause it.) Without Je inhibiting this belief, this is actually a rather likely conclusion.
*Whether or not the Ni dom in question contributes the 'decreasing rationality' statistic is irrelevant.

For Ni diverting discussions, we tend to do that when we find little use for it. This is done at Je's discretion. Also, Ni is strongest whenever we distrust the new input (rejecting the influence of Se.) During that time, it (usually) means we're trying to find ways to 'break' it. We might ask some questions, and if we find merit in the 'input', slowly accept it into our cognition.
*So if you don't want rude replies, you could try mentioning it to the Ni and wait a day or two before coming back to ask what they think. Some Ni's can be dangerously witty.
**No, it doesn't guarantee that you won't get rude replies.


Ni can detect patterns in life, but I don't think that's an exclusive ability. The thing is we observe and keep statistics of things by grouping similar patterns together. We can use the generated map to choose connections that are likelier (according to our experiences) than others. In the case of human nature, we might have read multiple biographies of various people, note similar connections, and come up with something you might perceive as something profound.


Some other observations: You might make the connection between Ni and Se in that both needs internal statistics. Ni needs statistics because it needs to choose the right path to go, and Se needs statistics to identify what is popular.

Ni is also the 'reverse' of Ne, although I'm not sure if that helps, as it uses my current understanding of cognition that I'm not going into detail here.

 

[TriflinThomas]

For Ni diverting discussions, we tend to do that when we find little use for it. This is done at Je's discretion. Also, Ni is strongest whenever we distrust the new input (rejecting the influence of Se.) During that time, it (usually) means we're trying to find ways to 'break' it. We might ask some questions, and if we find merit in the 'input', slowly accept it into our cognition.

This is so me D:

 

[Pizzabeak]

My mom might be INFJ (she tested out as it, but I coulda swore she typed as something else in past...) and I've met an INFJ dude a couple times before... I'm guessing since they have a grasp of how it works in themselves they may have a tendency to apply it to other people for whatever reason.

 

[scorpiomover]

Ni-doms seem to be very good at storytelling. They come up with the most enthralling webs of lies. So one could say they are perceptive of what makes an interesting story that humans would be inclined to listen to.

 

[nanook]

the core definition of Ni is "consciousness trying to form 'images' (comprehensions) about itself" or "subjective perception of process" where the major "process" of interest to the subject happens to be "the flow of consciousness (feeling/thought/other)" and anything else said about Ni, if true at all, is only a possible side effects of that attempt, practically irrelevant to definition, such as a keeping track of process/time/future, yeah well that's just one particular possible image of consciousness, as comprehended time is a subjective event/map/pattern in consciousness that can maybe be pictured to a degree, but no access to- or interest in- objective process is implied automatically. and Ni dominant people are not born with insight into consciousness, it's just evolution trying to achieve this feature with varying success and it begins with rough far fetched symbolic and static hallucinations that are fused with sensation, but becomes more subtle and abstract and flexible and independent from sensation later. i doubt anyone can properly _understand_ or word/illustrate typology or other major aspects of psychology and spirituality, unless he is open to his Ni, wherever that is burried, in his configuration. Ni is not good at story telling, Ti is the story teller, the arbitrary manipulator of action, of arbitrary change, Ti only uses the domain of Ni to place it's stories in, if Ti is coupled with Ni.

i agree with schopenhauer being Ni, he is precisely illustrating why INTp (NiTe) are those open ended types, the perceivers, only concerned with a seemingly purposeless perceiving of reality in general, not with a particular manipulation of it, not with resolution or execution, nor willing to fight for how he is received socially, the total looser and outsider, trying to concur with his more popular opponents only in fantasy, by placing his lectures on the same dates as those did, while in reality surrendering to them in doing so (nobody showed up as his lecture). he is misperceived by critics as confident, but he was actually afraid and paranoid and jet at the end of most days, he just didn't give a fuck about his feelings, his aspirations and convictions, not enough of a fuck to advertise his own genius properly, clearly a social phobic, a slave of his objective thinking. he was not confident, only intellectually and secretly stubborn and if he hadn't had a rich dad, he wouldn't have achieved anything at all.