New, unwanted dog. Massive anxiety.

[Spin Doctor]

Backstory: For the past 5 years or so we have lived with a dog and two cats, with 1 more cat recently emerging. Cats aren't any trouble though, if they had hands they could probably feed themselves. My dog that we've had for a while is very self sufficient and non-disruptive, and only needs to be brought outside at breakfast, lunch and dinner. Pretty much just lays around with the other cats and occasionally plays with the wackier one. This has been routine for as long as I can remember, and I like it that way.

My parents recently got the idea to adopt a german shepard puppy for 2k from a breeder. From the start I insisted it was a bad idea and that it would not fit in with our other pets, or in our household in general because of its higher energy tendencies and constant need for attention. Guess what? I was correct. Ever since we got this dog last week it has been trouble. The first two nights it whined constantly, keeping me up. As long as my mom was around it 24/7 its fine. When she left for work though, forget it. It pisses and shits on the floor, attacks the other pets, requires 10+ bathroom outings a day, and constant attention from whoever is home to watch it.

Not to use my personality type as a scapegoat for being overwhelmed, but I'm pretty sure I'm in INTP hell. My anxiety of waking up and coming home to this dog is so fierce. I can't even finish my food sometimes. Its like for the past week everything has revolved around this dog. I haven't been able to concentrate on any other aspect of my life because all I think about is how much grief this dog brings me. Its not even like I can move out, I'm a first year college student with a part time job. So I am stuck in this place with this thing for who knows how long. Is my anxiety justified? Or am I just being difficult?

 

[snafupants]

Cats aren't any trouble though, if they had hands they could probably feed themselves.

That's a funny image. Below is Toonces: driving on a suspended license...again. Oh Toonces.

 

[BigApplePi]

You didn't say anything about the other 3 pets. Have you introduced them? Are they the same? If you hadn't said anything I would have said pay lots of attention to your three originals so they don't get jealous. Now I'm leaning toward over attention to the puppy.

How old is it? You want it to relate & acclimate to human beings! Give it toys. Play with it. It whined in the beginning because it lost its home. Try getting it alone and showering it with attention so it responds to you.

I have a dog and two cats. All are healthy.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I have a dog and two cats. All are healthy.

I miss those days.

Yeah i figured I would leave something out. It has plenty of toys, and plays with them all the time while its awake. And it was whining because the breeder let it sleep with him until we picked it up. We tried to put it in a crate and it didn't like it. We couldn't allow it to pee in my parents bed. We have since let it sleep in their room just for the sake of a peaceful night. It is learning to go to the bathroom steadily. Hasn't pooped in the house since the first two days, occasionally pees.

Pet profiles:

1st cat: Old, sleeps 23 hours a day. Doesn't bother with anyone unless she goes to eat or go to the bathroom.

2nd Cat: Deranged, a little bit. Keeps to itself. Usually avoids people. Only attacks when absolutely necessary.

3rd cat: a bit wacko, used to be the alpha pet in the house. Attacked other pets occasionally, but not an issue in any case. She gets attacked a lot from the dog because she runs away when shes near it, and then a fight ensues.

Other dog: Older, thinks shes a cat probably due to her terrier size. Sleeps a lot, plays with the 3rd cat occasionally. Used to be homeless. Has issues only when other pets go near her food. Other than that, shes perfectly manageable. Doesn't like the new dog, growls any time its near her and then they both start to fight. We have been giving her equal attention as well. Like I said, she just doesn't want to be bothered. The other cats just leave her alone for this reason and it's OK like that.

The reason this new dog doesn't work is because he is so unlike the others. While the other animals just want to keep to themselves and sleep, he tries to play with them and runs around. This causes conflict. He is also, as you can see, 10x more maintenance than we've had to deal with in the last 5 years since we got rid of our other big dog. It almost feels unnatural and invasive due to the contrast in personalities from what I'm used to.

 

[Double_V]

I'd give nearly anything to be in your shoes. GS's are my fav.

You are not in control of the dog, it's in control of you. And it knows it. Time for you to become it's pack leader so it get's the idea who is in charge. One way you can do that it is to use your hand like a jaw (thumb and index finger) on hit's head or neck and pin the dog to the ground without hurting it. It's an act of dominance, and it's their language.

P.S. All new babies, and most new pets, upset the household until everybody including them knows the routine (and boundaries).

 

[Montresor]

You poor poor soul. This dog will require serious dominance and leadership training. It's a 5+ year commitment to give this breed the right basic training just to be a stable member of the household. They don't just "behave". They don't, they won't, forget it.

Physical dominance is the tip of the iceberg. One must be careful with this strategy as it can quickly escalate to violence and abuse with any dog, and larger breeds like this are potentially quite harmful to humans.

You are right that it was a bad decision. Its needs are not likely to be met. You will continue to suffer as a result. It's not going to get better without intervention and a firm strategy.

I would not dare to own a German Shepherd.

These animals respond very well to consistency, reward training, and exercise. You will be surprised how much energy the dog has. If you have a quad, or a scooter, or a horse, or a motorcycle you can try exercising the dog that way. Run him for miles, every day. Hunting games and chase games are the two ways you can always pique his interest.

Above many other breeds, Shepherds are the ones who reward their owners the most with dedication and loyalty, but in return they are very demanding of their masters.

Pros: very smart, very noble, good with commands, attentive, enthusiastic, good for off-leash play

Cons: Really demands an "advanced" - level dog owner with a high degree of commitment. Absolutely not for beginners.

 

[redbaron]

I'd give nearly anything to be in your shoes. GS's are my fav.

You are not in control of the dog, it's in control of you. And it knows it. Time for you to become it's pack leader so it get's the idea who is in charge. One way you can do that it is to use your hand like a jaw (thumb and index finger) on hit's head or neck and pin the dog to the ground without hurting it. It's an act of dominance, and it's their language.

P.S. All new babies, and most new pets, upset the household until everybody including them knows the routine (and boundaries).

Do this if you're an idiot.

Exactly what @Montresor said, German Shepherd's can't be treated like most other dogs. I grew up with one, and I know two other families who own them. They are amazing dogs, but they aren't the sort of dog doing this to is going to solve anything.

I have to agree with your initial sentiments, buying a GS in a household with a smaller dog and two older cats was a terrible idea. They are not aggressive, but they have hunter instincts. It's generally not a wise idea to keep a GS around with smaller animals, without first introducing them and acclimatizing them to being sociable with them.

I was bit on the face by a GS when I was younger - and the dog was well adjusted and had a good owner. I'd played with the dog before. They were visiting, I walked over to the dog to pat it, and it jumped up at me. One of its teeth pierced through just below my bottom lip, and it left a gash just above my right eye.

Not saying this is common, this is the only time I've seen a GS actually bite someone. However the ones I've known have always had limits. They will let you know when you're being too aggressive or doing something they don't like. I don't generally trust 'reports' a whole lot, but they are rated as one of the most likely breeds to bite.

In short, trying to show 'dominance' won't solve anything if you don't take all the other (extensive) actions required to raise a healthy and sociable GS.

 

[Montresor]

It's an act of dominance, and it's their language.

^I would have to agree with this point, but not much further, as forceful moves can be wildly misconstrued as aggression. Pushing the dog to the ground isn't fair, I prefer a full blown wrestling match that ends in submission by tap-out.

"their language" of dominance is more likely a subtle nip at the neck, a three finger pinch that lasts an impulse. It communicates to the dog that you do not approve of what he is doing. When executed with confidence, it can be very effective with any breed.

For every instance of positive punishment there need to be three or more instances of positive reinforcement. This isn't dog-ma per se, but it is a good place to start out.

Behavioural Science has gone to great lengths with pigeons and rats to help us understand the basis of learning. I personally believe that anybody who would denounce Skinner and Thorndike is a fool. What I'm alluding to, specifically, is a principle known as Non-contingent Reinforcement. Learn its ways, learn them well.

I would sooner rough handle a pit bull than a shepherd, and that is the truth. Shepherds actually have a more forceful bite, and that one you can take to the bank.

 

[EditorOne]

Do what INTPs do: In addition to posting on here, read up on the breed and how to train it. Immerse yourself. It will sort itself out.

Dogs generally "need a job"; it's shorthand for saying dogs need to do what that particular breed was specially bred to do. We don't have any Roman wagons for Rottweiler's to guard any more, but they still need to guard. Ditto German Shepherds; they need to guard and to some extent herd, and at the very least they need to be in a situation where they are getting told to do things that are natural to their temperament and predisposition. (Otherwise they are a lot like an INTP rejecting approaches that don't fit our temperament.) Bone up some more on the German Shepherd and do what you can.

Some breeds, especially working breeds, just aren't right for a lot of human environments. We have a Border Collie but no sheep; "herd and protect" doesn't half begin to describe what this dog tries to do, and he's a neurotic mess trying to fit the world he finds himself in with his sharply defined breeding. (He was going to be a dog we simply got temporarily, from utterly unsuitable and exhausted owners, but because he's such an unstable mess we ended up keeping him, thinking it was a bad idea to foist him off on unsuspecting strangers. I am the main target of his 'utter protect mode,' which he energetically hurls himself into whenever my wife sits down or lies down in his presence. Nobody can enter the room she's in without a shrill, nasty argument with the dog, who is, to humanize him, highly idealistic and duty-bound to defend his honor as a "protect" dog. When she stands up, it's over. I have quite a few bite marks to attest to the worst-case scenario for a bad match between dog and environment; fortunately (for the dog) I'm quick, I'm patient and have a very high threshold for pain.)

 

[redbaron]

I would sooner rough handle a pit bull than a shepherd, and that is the truth. Shepherds actually have a more forceful bite, and that one you can take to the bank.

Amen. I was bitten by a Shepherd after all.

 

[IdeasNotTheProblem]

I don't know much about German Shepards but I do have a big dog with lots of energy. I'd say the single most important thing for you to do while it's still young is socialize it with everything and everyone. The more dogs, people, places and children it encounters while it's young the less likely it'll freak out and act aggressive. I know this will clash with your introversion but look at it as a way for both of you to develop your social functions.

 

[Double_V]

^I would have to agree with this point, but not much further, as forceful moves can be wildly misconstrued as aggression. Pushing the dog to the ground isn't fair, I prefer a full blown wrestling match that ends in submission by tap-out.

Well, admittedly I save that particular move for a Heeler. Not only do they get the point, they find it wildy entertaining while doing so!

 

[Double_V]

Amen. I was bitten by a Shepherd after all.

What did you do to (cause) it?

Edit: Oh, I see. You were dealing with a dog who was not trained well enough. It saw you as a litter mate, an equal. It had no repsect for you partially due to your similar height. This is why a SHEPHERD needs to know that they are lower than humans.

 

[Double_V]

I don't know much about German Shepards but I do have a big dog with lots of energy. I'd say the single most important thing for you to do while it's still young is socialize it with everything and everyone. The more dogs, people, places and children it encounters while it's young the less likely it'll freak out and act aggressive. I know this will clash with your introversion but look at it as a way for both of you to develop your social functions.

Absolutely excellent advice. These are dogs that are naturally cautious (hense the name Shepherd) and left untrained and unsocialized their natural fear (caution) can be a problem.

Their energy levels off at about 2 and by 5 they're really great dogs if properly trained/guided.

 

[Kuu]

(Sell it in secret and claim it escaped)

 

[pjoa09]

I was bitten by a street doberman for stupidly patting him on the head. All my mistake.

I'd be psyched if I had a German Shepherd. They are really good looking,iconic, big and powerful dogs.

Too bad I don't have the will power to keep one. You have to make sure they know who's boss and keep it that way.

 

[redbaron]

What did you do to (cause) it?

Edit: Oh, I see. You were dealing with a dog who was not trained well enough. It saw you as a litter mate, an equal. It had no repsect for you partially due to your similar height. This is why a SHEPHERD needs to know that they are lower than humans.

No.

I'd played with it and known it for years. Had never had a problem.

 

[Double_V]

No.

I'd played with it and known it for years. Had never had a problem.

Okay, so you played with it and had known it for years. You never had a problem, then it bit you.

Why did it bite you?

 

[redbaron]

Okay, so you played with it and had known it for years. You never had a problem, then it bit you.

Why did it bite you?

I don't know, I think you're missing the point.

The point is that German Shepherds require a lot more effort than other dogs for them to grow up healthy and to have a desirable temperament. I was agreeing with the OP as to the stupidity of entering a GS into a household of low-activity and generally passive pets in the first place.

As well as pointing out that fixing this issue is not as simple as:

'One way you can do that it is to use your hand like a jaw (thumb and index finger) on hit's head or neck and pin the dog to the ground without hurting it. It's an act of dominance, and it's their language.'

This could in fact be harmful, because GS's are not the sort of dog you do that to lightly. Even properly trained I would be careful about rough handling a GS. They love to play and hunt. They're curious and love to explore, more-so even than other dogs. Rough-housing is okay, but from my experience it's not something they love for its own sake like say, a beagle - they lap that shit up like no tomorrow.

I play rough with a beagle all the time, it loves it. With a GS? Not the same. It will eventually start to get agitated, and it is sheer stupidity to continue agitating a GS.

I'd like to know how many GS's you interact with on a day to day basis, as well as how many you've lived with. All dogs have different temperaments and many are bred selectively with that as a specific goal in mind - you keep talking about dogs as though they're all the same, like there's a cookie cutter method to breeding a well-trained and sociable dog when in fact, different breeds require different sorts of attention and even individual dogs require different treatment.

 

[Montresor]

My dog is a beagle!

 

[Double_V]

I don't know, I think you're missing the point.

So I explained to you why it happened, you told me I was wrong. Then I asked you why it bit you and answered you don't know. Odd you don't know the reason yourself but tell me that I'm wrong.

I am a dead on point of the pysche of a German SHEPHERD.

The point is that German Shepherds require a lot more effort than other dogs

No, they don't. They do however require somone who is familar with the breed.

I was agreeing with the OP as to the stupidity of entering a GS into a household of low-activity and generally passive pets in the first place.

Stupidity? No. And I'd advise you not to throw that word around. Perhaps the owners of home just have a different level of knowledge, expectation, and dedication to the coming and goings (life stages) of their pets that the OP may not have.

As well as pointing out that fixing this issue is not as simple as:

Who said it was??

This could in fact be harmful,because GS's are not the sort of dog you do that to lightly. Even properly trained I would be careful about rough handling a GS. They love to play and hunt. They're curious and love to explore, more-so even than other dogs. Rough-housing is okay, but from my experience it's not something they love for its own sake like say, a beagle - they lap that shit up like no tomorrow.

You obviously do not know a thing about shepherds. SHEPHERDS. You know why they call them that? Partly because they are not hunters. They do love to rough house.

I play rough with a beagle all the time, it loves it. With a GS? Not the same. It will eventually start to get agitated, and it is sheer stupidity to continue agitating a GS.

Again, you are completely oblivious to all things shepherd. Laughable you mention a beagle (a hunter!).

I'd like to know how many GS's you interact with on a day to day basis, as well as how many you've lived with. All dogs have different temperaments and many are bred selectively with that as a specific goal in mind - you keep talking about dogs as though they're all the same, like there's a cookie cutter method to breeding a well-trained and sociable dog when in fact, different breeds require different sorts of attention and even individual dogs require different treatment.

Three of my four grandparents kept them. Some in multiples. One even bit me (and it was my fault). My parents had one before I was born. When he died we got another 2 weeks later. I've kept them as an adult. I have been through extensive obedience with them, including police academy training. They are very intelligent and will do as they please unless they know they have a strong master who is dominant otherwise they do as they please . They enjoy people and familys but they prefer to have one special person.

They are not like any other breed, nor in anyway did I imply such (you silly thing).

Now, if you want a dog that is german, a hunter, and really tough to train get a dachshund.

 

[The Introvert]

It's a puppy. It's going to shit and piss everywhere, and be annoying. That's why you need to train it.

I agree with not listening to what Double V said. I've had (and trained) 7 dogs in my life, and the only ones that I had problems with were the ones that were scared to death from people training them improperly; be it holding them down for dominance or even wiping their nose in their own poo (all of my dogs are/were rescue dogs).

If you want to learn how to treat dogs, watch Cesar Milan's show: The Dog Whisperer. The man knows what he is doing - and his instructions for training puppies are very clear. Integrate them into your 'pack' early. When they make a mess, put them outside immediately, and clean up it immediately, and thoroughly. A puppy will not know why it is being scolded if you find the poo even 10 minutes later and wipe its nose in it; it will just become scared of humans, which is NOT what you want, especially for an elegant (but also dangerous, if not properly trained) GS.

Much of a what a dog understand is from body language; if you are stressed out, then it will be too. If you are calm and dominant in your posture and attitude, the dog will (almost always) submit and get out of your way.

Spoiler

There's always the chance that you just have a very aggressive (or stupid) dog, but more often than not, it is the owner, not the animal.

German Shepherds are (IMO) the best overall dog you could ask for. They are easy to train, intelligent, beautiful, and loyal. A well-trained German Shepherd dog would be a wonderful addition to your home.

I hope you change your opinion of the dog soon - it really is worth the time and effort, if you so choose to spend it.

 

[Montresor]

daxhooond

I had one of those too at one time.

That's a good defense you put up there.

I don't necessarily agree with your philosophy, but I wouldn't exactly call somebody an idiot for following your advice either.

On one hand, you did ask "what did you do to cause it?" then immediately accused him of playing with a dog that wasn't trained well enough. That's not the picture of cause and effect. Pulling a dog's tail would cause it.

What I'm saying here is the man did nothing to cause it.
Why should he know why it bit him? All anybody can do is speculate.

So you know the ways of Shepherds? Hey, maybe you can ease the anxiety of the OP - make sure he knows that even experienced Shepherd owners with an extensive background in raising the dogs still GET BIT during the training process, even while training dogs that need the required discipline to serve as police officers.

But don't worry! They "don't" need any more effort than other dogs to raise! Just shove his face to the ground. This guy knows.

Ass.

 

[redbaron]

*snore*

I thought I made it clear the specific points I was talking about. Just in case:

- German Shepherds require a lot more effort than other dogs for them to grow up healthy and to have a desirable temperament.
- GS's are not the sort of dog you do that to lightly. Even properly trained I would be careful about rough handling a GS.

But don't worry! They "don't" need any more effort than other dogs to raise! Just shove his face to the ground. This guy knows.

Yeah pretty much. He says, 'no they don't (require any more effort)' and then goes on to say, 'they just need to be familiar with the breed'. Seem like mutually exclusive points to me. Then goes on to talk about how they require a very dominant master, and they need to make the GS know that they're the dominant one.

So is it being implied that becoming familiar with the breed and putting that knowledge into practice isn't effort? Well, let's find out!

One accepted definition of effort is:
1. conscious exertion of power : hard work <a job requiring time and effort>

Conscious. Exertion of power. Requiring time. Seems to me everything you've described about raising a well-trained German Shepherd is actually FOR the statement I made that GS's require more effort than most other dogs?

 

[Double_V]

*snore*

I thought I made it clear the specific points I was talking about. Just in case:

- German Shepherds require a lot more effort than other dogs for them to grow up healthy and to have a desirable temperament.
- GS's are not the sort of dog you do that to lightly. Even properly trained I would be careful about rough handling a GS.

No, you were perfectly clear that you think German Shepherds hunt. In fact you are wrong. They were bred to do the opposite, they herd and protect. You have no awareness of that breed.

Also you displayed an accute lack of understanding that placing the dogs head below the human literally makes the human Top Dog. The dog learn it is 'lower' than the human, it is not in charge, the human is. This simple act, which you seem to confuse with rough housing or being rough, is a simple motion of pushing the dogs head down as it's mother and other pack members/litter mates do naturally to determine and inform and establish who is Top Dog.

You did, however, teach me that you cannot have a conversation without using words like "idiot" or "stupidity". I consider it a sign of lower capabilities.

 

[Affinity]

Man, I'm jealous. Always wanted a GS. Anyways, if your parents paid 2k for it, I'd say it must be from some good bloodlines. It's shitting, pissing, and whining? Ya don't say? Sounds like ANY puppy especially in unfamiliar territory. But GSDs are extremely intelligent dogs so be patient and give it some time and I'm sure you'll come to love it.

 

[Affinity]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRaCv4Njcnk&feature=share&list=FLU-gXE4GUjvhICMzVq6qnGA

One of my favorite videos of a company that trains the breed.

 

[redbaron]

- German Shepherds require a lot more effort than other dogs for them to grow up healthy and to have a desirable temperament.

Do you disagree? If so, please cite why. I've found several pages that support what I've said. Here's one:

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-characteristics-are-german-shepherd-dogs-known-for.htm

- GS's are not the sort of dog you do that to lightly. Even properly trained I would be careful about rough handling a GS.

On this, I'm assuming you disagree. That's fine. But here is my problem with your post:

You completely neglected to provide any information on the training of a German Shepherd, other than, 'show your dominance by doing *this*'. Telling that to someone who clearly isn't confident around or familiar with the breed is just stupid.

I haven't ever seen one person do this on a GS ever, nor have I. I don't think it's cruel, just pointless and potentially dangerous if the person applying it is performing it based only on reading one short paragraph on the internet. Even on police dogs, the trainers have never mentioned this technique. Nor can I seem to find it mentioned anywhere through 10-15 minutes of browsing on google. Granted 10-15 is not much, but I don't really care to waste more time.

Now I want you to answer something. Do you disagree that you should be careful about rough handling a German Shepherd?

You did, however, teach me that you cannot have a conversation without using words like "idiot" or "stupidity". I consider it a sign of lower capabilities.

I hear that simply sugar-coating those words by using the term, 'lower capabilities' is an indication of vastly superior intellect

 

[BigApplePi]

Most of what I've read here makes sense. My advice is to go to a bookstore and look up the German Shepard. Check out its character. Different breeds are different. Then if you decide to keep this dog*, look for a training class. Read how to train a dog. There are even videos on same. You cannot leave this dog alone and expect to get what you want.

I have two books here which summarize the GS. Here are quotes, but better ones at another location.

"Personality Bold, cheerful, obedient, steady, loyal, affectionate with its master and with children, tolerant of other animals, wary of strangers, easily trained."

"... Shepherd as a multitalented working dog is a tribute to its exceptional character and skills. ... master is at fault [bad things] for failing to control the dog's aggressiveness. If properly trained when young, the GS will be loyal, faithful, and obedient when mature."
_________________________

*A dog should fit your lifestyle. Is your familty open to a trade? I have the 2nd of two smooth collies. They love small animals, children, are quiet indoor and active outside. I read up on the breed before getting.

 

[Spin Doctor]

So... turns out... I have too much time on my hands. I've come to realize in these past few days that the dog is merely a wall that was broken in this facade of a life I have. I need to utilize my time to greater purpose, instead of attempting to carry on this lie that I am happy with the way things are. Without going into too much detail, it is not the dog entirely. It is me, and I need to make changes. Thanks for the suggestions and help.

 

[The Introvert]

So... turns out... I have too much time on my hands. I've come to realize in these past few days that the dog is merely a wall that was broken in this facade of a life I have. I need to utilize my time to greater purpose, instead of attempting to carry on this lie that I am happy with the way things are. Without going into too much detail, it is not the dog entirely. It is me, and I need to make changes. Thanks for the suggestions and help.

I wish you good luck with that.

If you're having issues that you need to talk about, (albeit with a complete stranger), you can always PM me, if you so choose. Or not, your call

 

[EditorOne]

So... turns out... I have too much time on my hands. I've come to realize in these past few days that the dog is merely a wall that was broken in this facade of a life I have. I need to utilize my time to greater purpose, instead of attempting to carry on this lie that I am happy with the way things are. Without going into too much detail, it is not the dog entirely. It is me, and I need to make changes. Thanks for the suggestions and help.

That's interesting.
Presumably the discussion here triggered random ideas that coalesced into a useful thought?