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New here, would appreciate some input.

curiousbored

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I don’t know if I like this. I found out I was an INTP a few weeks ago, we took a test at work, and I was surprised that it seemed fairly accurate. Naturally, I dug deeper, and I found this website. At first I was amazed at how many posts/comments I could relate too. I felt like I had found a place with people I had common ground with for the first time in my life. But then today something really started to bother me. “I” was no longer the originator of my thoughts or actions, the INTP archetype was. I was no longer unique or original, and even worse; I know what I can expect out of life (to a large extent). I’ve always had hope that I can “fix” my flaws, but they’re not my flaws, their just INTP characteristics (yes I realize I ultimately decide my own fate, just stay with me for now). So I’m looking around and it seems that I can expect to be misunderstood by a large part of the population, I will struggle to find meaningful friendships and relationships, and not only that but I inherently lack any motivation to change my circumstances (story of my life up to this point, guess I should get used to it???). There are certain parts of being an INTP that I love, but something’s I would want to change. I was legitimately angry for the first time in…I can’t remember how long (that alone made me angrier), about the aforementioned. Have any of you experienced something like this? Any advice or comments?
 

Minamimoto

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Mhm, I see what you mean. While we have these strong tendencies, this doesn't mean you're doomed to a life of failure. For one, success/failure can only be appropriately defined by yourself. Just pursue whatever sort of life appeals to you. Secondly, you may still learn to compensate for your shortcomings, no?

You are still unique. Even though we all process information in a similar manner, our experiences differ. We don't agree on everything. We aren't even identical typologically; the INTP archetype is not homogenous; there are gradients of each of the four functions that produce slightly different results.

I'm certain that most, if not all of us find our flaws frustrating. However, the alternative to knowing your shortcomings and being bothered by them from time to time is being ignorant of them. Personally, I don't much care for that idea.

Your typological classification doesn't define you; instead, it is your experience and struggles that have led you to choose the path of the INTP. Could you see yourself being any other person?
 

Da Blob

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I don't know what set you off, or the basis of this epiphany. However, there is no human on Earth who is limited to being a stereotype/archetype. Sure, categories can be useful, but the whole idea that there are only sixteen types of individuals (based upon Archetypes) in this world is rather preposterous...

Categorization can be useful for understanding, but not for defining...

That is to say one's definition as Self, is not determined by the single boundary of the MBTI.... Self changes, the MBTI does not...
 

curiousbored

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Mhm, I see what you mean. While we have these strong tendencies, this doesn't mean you're doomed to a life of failure. For one, success/failure can only be appropriately defined by yourself. Just pursue whatever sort of life appeals to you. Secondly, you may still learn to compensate for your shortcomings, no?

You are still unique. Even though we all process information in a similar manner, our experiences differ. We don't agree on everything. We aren't even identical typologically; the INTP archetype is not homogenous; there are gradients of each of the four functions that produce slightly different results.

I'm certain that most, if not all of us find our flaws frustrating. However, the alternative to knowing your shortcomings and being bothered by them from time to time is being ignorant of them. Personally, I don't much care for that idea.

Your typological classification doesn't define you; instead, it is your experience and struggles that have led you to choose the path of the INTP. Could you see yourself being any other person?


You raise an interesting point. Is it our experiences and struggles that make us an INTP, or is it something we are born into?? I thought the theory of MBTI said the type is set at birth(maybe I'm wrong?), either way I'd like to believe that I could force myself to become more extravertaed and more Feeling (I'm strong both I & T), because If I'm being honest with myself, I think those a very benefitial qualities to have in terms of career and relationship development. But can you completely change, say to an ENTP (I think that is what I would prefer being)? I guess my main issue with myself, is that I've become more introverted (though I have always been) the older I have become (I'm a whole 24 years of age), I'd just like to be able to form stronger relationships because I think thats a large part of life. Sure getting lost in thought can be fun, but I never look back and think about the memories of my thoughts, I think about the good times I've had with & friends/family. ok I'm rambling, I'll stop.
 

curiousbored

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I don't know what set you off, or the basis of this epiphany. However, there is no human on Earth who is limited to being a stereotype/archetype. Sure, categories can be useful, but the whole idea that there are only sixteen types of individuals (based upon Archetypes) in this world is rather preposterous...

Categorization can be useful for understanding, but not for defining...

That is to say one's definition as Self, is not determined by the single boundary of the MBTI.... Self changes, the MBTI does not...


I don't know what set me off either! it was a very unusual experience (I even said that to myself while I was in the middle of it, but I continued to be angry). It just seemed so anti-climatic that I could be 85-90% summed up in an archetype, like the mystery of life had been taken from me (I know, it was an over reaction). I feel much better now, but for a good 3 hours this morning I was very upset, and now I just feel...befuddled.
 

sammael

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I dislike the word archetype in this context, by implication it doesn't leave enough room for variation and is far too limiting. It is correct only in that patterns of preferred thought and behaviour are similar, but as Da Blob said, no one is limited to being a stereotype/archetype. You are giving MBTI too much weight, remember it is just a guideline.

Categorization can be useful for understanding, but not for defining...

This sums MBTI up nicely, well said.

Being an INTP (or any type) is not a classification that defines who and what a person is, and who and what they are not. All MBTI is, is preference for orientation and function. This means naturally we have strengths, and naturally we have weaknesses. It does not mean these are characteristics that we cannot change, or have no control over. All it means is now we better understand our strengths and weaknesses and can work on/improve them if we so desire.


So I’m looking around and it seems that I can expect to be misunderstood by a large part of the population

Yes, because we are a small minority. But it could also be argued this is true for every type. This doesn't make you an outcast or particularly different or disliked. I don't really see how this should be a problem, it should not limit you or your achievements in any way.

I will struggle to find meaningful friendships and relationships

Also true, but once again, this could be argued for every type, depending on the definition of meaningful. It may be hard to find meaningful friendships or relationships, but it is by no means impossible. I wouldn't see this as a flaw or weakness, rather just a reflection of our uniqueness.

and not only that but I inherently lack any motivation to change my circumstances (story of my life up to this point, guess I should get used to it???).

No, no, no. You do not inherently lack any motivation to change your circumstances. To say that makes it impossible to change. We have a preference for not changing, or rather a preference for everything but what we should/need to be doing to change. We have a preference for play over work. Yes, this makes us more likely to get stuck in a rut. Yes, this makes it harder for us to get out. But it is not a characteristic that we have no control over, simply a tendency which we can alter.

either way I'd like to believe that I could force myself to become more extravertaed and more Feeling (I'm strong both I & T), because If I'm being honest with myself, I think those a very benefitial qualities to have in terms of career and relationship development. But can you completely change, say to an ENTP (I think that is what I would prefer being)? .... I'd just like to be able to form stronger relationships because I think thats a large part of life.

Your introverted-ness and Ti (thinking) is not limiting you from any of this. As I explained above, these are simply preferences. Every single person can and does use both sides of each dichotomy. The MBTI definition of introvert is not shy or antisocial or socially awkward or in any way socially retarded or lacking, nor is the MBTI definition of Extravert socially talented and accepted and better able to connect with people. What introversion means is simply focus on the internal world and energy generation from this, and extraversion is focus on the external world and energy generation from this.

Now, this does mean in a social context extraverts are more likely to be comfortable, therefore they do have an automatic advantage over introverts. But social skills are exactly that, skills, the ability to do something well. And where does this come from..? It comes from knowledge, practice, it can be learnt (and this is what NT's are good at, because of our aptitude for knowledge and our ability to analyze).

You cannot force yourself to become more extraverted or more feeling, but you can understand the principles behind those that you value, and become better at using them. You cannot change your type but you can develop your non preferred sides. And the more you use them, the more familiar and comfortable you will become in those situations. There is nothing about introversion or Ti that precludes you from being socially able or from forming stronger relationships. This can all be learnt.
 

Architect

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So when your stomach wants feeding its not you? Or when you need to use the bathroom? What about when your hormones turned you into a sex machine in your teens?

We're creatures with a lot of built in programming, of course its our choice what to do with it.
 

curiousbored

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Thanks guys, I appreciate the input. So sammael, knowing our preferences, what resources do we have to aid us in developing our non-preference functions? Obviously, If I desire social skills, I need to "put myself out there" & "come out of my shell" (bet I'm the only one who's heard that:)), do you suggest any books or posts or whatever which could act as a guide, or atleast a place to start, which would show me how to go through this process (e.g. how does one develop the Fe, or the Ni[I'm still a bit confused about what these even mean] or how does one identify what functions need work on?).
 

sammael

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Yeah, it can be confusing. The capital letter = the function (S-sensing, N-intuition, T-thinking, F-feeling) and the lower case is the orientation (i-introverted, e-extraverted). For an INTP the hierarchy of functions is Ti, Ne, Si, Fe. Here is some more information if you're interested:

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=6582
http://www.cognitiveprocesses.com/16types.html


That is not a simple question to answer my friend, the development of social skill is a complex domain, and where does one start? I will try to answer it to my own satisfaction (its never enough) and hopefully to yours. I commend your attitude, many times people will just come to the conclusion that a certain way is just how they are, and thus they can never see change. There is always room for development and improvement.

For much of my life I have been fascinated with how and why people work, and have wanted to be able to effortlessly communicate with, and skillfully manage and/or influence people if need be (not, never ever, in a bad way or to their detriment). As you alluded to, being socially adroit can open up countless doors, to me it can both make life immensely easier, and it can facilitate anything I want to achieve. I think it is a very worthwhile goal. And so I have been and am on a journey to achieve this. Perhaps from my mess I can offer something that is useful.

From my perspective, the ability to skillfully communicate comes down to three factors:

1. Confidence
2. What is said and how it is said
3. Understanding people

Confidence

There is two forms of confidence, internal and external. Confidence that comes from external things, e.g. looks, money, position, validation from others etc, is shallow and not all that meaningful, but it still has impact. I have observed that those who have grown up with a marked external advantage over their peers usually have greater confidence later in life. I read an article once (can't be bothered looking it up now, sorry) somewhere about how the reason tall men earned more was because they were tall when they were younger, and this height led to increased confidence. Apparently it was their confidence that led to them earning more, their height had only led to their confidence. This doesn't help us however, as this might not be the case. I also class our perceptions of what others think of us as external confidence, this is where it becomes important.

Internal confidence is how the individual views them self, irrespective of others opinions. This is the confidence that matters. Strong internal confidence trumps any kind of external confidence every single time. Strong internal confidence also trumps any negative external impact, which could lead to decreased confidence. Obviously then this is what we are seeking. The approval of the man (or woman) in the mirror. So the question becomes how do we develop strong internal confidence? How do we become approving of ourselves?

Let us expand on this. What is confidence? Confidence is belief in oneself based on our perception of our self. What defines our perception of our self? Now there's a tricky question, that would require an involved multifaceted answer, and it would be different for each one of us. I believe to develop true internal confidence we must influence our subconscious mind. When our subconscious mind truly likes us, imagine how that would affect our conscious perception of self.



Ok, I'm getting tired and I'm not sure if I'm rambling. If you want me to continue I will, or I can just sum up the main points and give you some resources, let me know. :)
 

Trebuchet

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I can expect to be misunderstood by a large part of the population, I will struggle to find meaningful friendships and relationships, and not only that but I inherently lack any motivation to change my circumstances.

Everyone is misunderstood by a large part of the population. Some people notice it more, though. I think INTPs notice it a lot. Not all of us let it bother us, though.

Everyone struggles to find meaningful friendships and relationships, too. Meaningful relationships are precious, rare gifts that happen only a few times in anyone's life, and INTPs have the ability to recognize that. We are not satisfied by the superficial, which some people don't mind. (We are not unique in treasuring such relationships, of course.)

And whether you lack motivation is up to you. Find motivation if you want. Many of us do.

It sounds like you found this forum and sought the similarities between us, which is understandable. But we also have great differences. INTP does not determine religion, politics, musical ability, sense of humor, drug use, or cultural norms. It does imply a preference for solving problems with logic, a need for some alone time once in a while, and a preference that rules make sense. INTP is only what you make of it.
 

Da Blob

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Acquiring social skills?
The easiest way is just to cheat. That is to say to people what they want to hear and do the things they want done.

Of course, there is really little communication or socializing in such a persona, but it is a good beginning. One can save real conversing for the 'real' people, the people who are willing to listen and respond by saying the things you wish to hear and doing the things you wished done...
 

A22

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There are things you can change about yourself and things you can't. For example: I think I'll always be a curious person. On the other hand, some years ago I was way less social than nowadays. Personality type is not fixed. Also, you may tend to act "INTPish" in some situations and "ENTPish" in others. You are what you are. I guess you could say you're not INTP, you just tend to think and act INTPish.
 
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