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Need help in becoming a better writer

CharlesRivers

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As of late, I’ve felt a pestering need to write regularly. Being an INTP, that need is accompanied by the desire to learn, improve, and learn some more and two ways to achieve this is through peer review and constructive criticism. It is my hope that some of you will put forth your opinions and suggestions as I will gladly consider any and all recommendations. My goal is to post weekly or daily if possible. Now, here is the first obstacle: How do I start? Is there a specific section of the site where I should place my posts?
 

manishboy

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There once was a boy who said, "Shite!
I really wish I could write.
Cause then altogether,
friends would shout, 'Clever!',
and I would find love for a night.

As with any skill, practice. Coaches help. Read a lot. Write a lot.
 

Direwolf

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Maybe try the literature section? In regards where to start it depends what you want to write.
 

Pyropyro

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redbaron

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What are you intending to write?

I guess my first piece of advice would be to not limit oneself to anything specific when beginning to write. I used to write articles for a website, and while the scope was somewhat limited I learnt a lot about the streamlining process when it comes to writing.

Being forced to come up with some amount of original content on a loose schedule for an audience made me a much better writer faster than any amount of sitting around agonizing over the (lack of) perfection of my future work.

So two things:

1. Challenge yourself to write at least something every day. It might be 100 words or 10,000 depending on your mood, just make sure you write something.

2. Give your work to as many audiences as possible on a regular schedule. Daily is taxing to do and you can only absorb so much input constructively. If you do it every fortnight or once a week it's less oberwhelming. Doesn't have to be regularly planned though, you can spontaneously ask what people think of a piece. Strangers will probably be more honest than your parents.

I don't really consider myself a great writer so I'm reluctant to give more advice than that.
 

Architect

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Ideally write in a 'forum' (not necessarily an internet forum) such that you get constant feedback. That could be where you take a class and everybody critiques your writing, or you write posts on a forum like this, or websites, or articles and such. Speeches are good too. You'll get sense of how what you say has an effect on people who read you.

Similiar to photography. The way to get better is to take pictures, lots of them, and then look at them. After a while you calibrate yourself to see through the camera and know what it will look like at the end. Musicians record themselves for the same reason.

After you get a lot of practice on that you can read what other writers have to say about writing, but I'd do the former first. Writers tend to aggrandize their craft.
 

Analyzer

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Besides writing regularly, read everyday for a sustained duration. Books are the best as they are thorough and require more concentration than other forms.
 

redbaron

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A tip for writing fictional characters and making them consistent.

I think one of the best ways to write fictional characters is to create the characters separately from the story, then throw them into the situations you create. Ideally the character that you've created has enough depth that you don't steer the story - they do. You might create six characters and put them into a crisis. You no longer have to think about how the story will evolve, the characters determine where it goes.

Not necessarily ideal to write an entire book this way, but often a good way to get around roadblocks in story writing. I figure anyone who's tried to write a novel has had that moment of, "shit. What next?".
 

wilsonwatson

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Don't forget that good writing is done by people who read extensively. So many writers nowadays don't take the time to read, and it's obvious. It's incredibly important.

Read the kinds of things you want to write, and read a lot. Set goals for yourself on how many books you want to read in a given amount of time. Don't set unrealistic goals, but ones you can keep consistently. Do the same with your writing (there have been several suggestions here on how to do that).

This is coming from someone who is, granted, not a writer, but associates with many writers who all seem to have a similar process that works.
 

CharlesRivers

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Ideally write in a 'forum' (not necessarily an internet forum) such that you get constant feedback. That could be where you take a class and everybody critiques your writing, or you write posts on a forum like this, or websites, or articles and such. Speeches are good too. You'll get sense of how what you say has an effect on people who read you.

Similiar to photography. The way to get better is to take pictures, lots of them, and then look at them. After a while you calibrate yourself to see through the camera and know what it will look like at the end. Musicians record themselves for the same reason.

After you get a lot of practice on that you can read what other writers have to say about writing, but I'd do the former first. Writers tend to aggrandize their craft.

Hey Architect! Initially, I joined this forum to better understand myself, as an INTP, and to improve on my writing. I had no doubts that I would be corrected if someone felt that it was necessary. I've also enrolled in a speech course (which is a pre-req for my AA). I would say that my biggest obstacle is making sure that the reader UNDERSTANDS what I've written. I don't know if anyone else has this problem, but I tend to leave out chunks of information in order to cater to a person's attention span. Unfortunately, I don't do well in determining what information needs to be elicited and what does not, resulting in an unintelligible prose. Additionally, my mind works in terms of what is most important, rather than chronologically, and I feel that the reader/listener has a hard time keeping up.

A tip for writing fictional characters and making them consistent.

I think one of the best ways to write fictional characters is to create the characters separately from the story, then throw them into the situations you create. Ideally the character that you've created has enough depth that you don't steer the story - they do. You might create six characters and put them into a crisis. You no longer have to think about how the story will evolve, the characters determine where it goes.

Not necessarily ideal to write an entire book this way, but often a good way to get around roadblocks in story writing. I figure anyone who's tried to write a novel has had that moment of, "shit. What next?".

Thanks redbaron! That idea is awesome! I've been procrastinating on writing my own novel for about a year now. The most difficult part for me is writing the scenes. They often come off as unrealistic or just plain cheesy. I think I will give this a try. It couldn't hurt to try, right?

Don't forget that good writing is done by people who read extensively. So many writers nowadays don't take the time to read, and it's obvious. It's incredibly important.

Read the kinds of things you want to write, and read a lot. Set goals for yourself on how many books you want to read in a given amount of time. Don't set unrealistic goals, but ones you can keep consistently. Do the same with your writing (there have been several suggestions here on how to do that).

This is coming from someone who is, granted, not a writer, but associates with many writers who all seem to have a similar process that works.

Hey wilsonwatson! I love to read but I'm not sure if I read enough. At most, I may read three books a month which is quite discouraging when I see many people who say they can read a book in two to three days. That speed would not be preferable. I like to read a bit slower, sometimes reread a page or two to get a better understanding, so it can take me much longer to finish. Is this normal? Oh, and goal-setting? I am the absolute worst at it! I may stick to a routine for several days tops then I find something "better" to do. Also, I love fantasy and philosophy. A book has to be mind-opening or filled with magic for me to read it edaciously. However, after reading so many good fantasy novels, I find it hard to write anything even close to what I would consider "good". As for philosophy, the most bothersome barrier would be finding an original approach to the same problem. So, all in all, I would say I lack the perseverance to finish a work. I was advised to just write and not to look back, finishing a story then going back to edit. In spite of that, I reread and edit EVERY SINGLE PAGE. Do you have any advice as how to remedy this?
 

redbaron

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Thanks redbaron! That idea is awesome! I've been procrastinating on writing my own novel for about a year now. The most difficult part for me is writing the scenes. They often come off as unrealistic or just plain cheesy. I think I will give this a try. It couldn't hurt to try, right?

Well it can help with the cheesy characters too. I guess the point of the exercise is that it forces you to give characters real depth. Properly defining what motivates them and their reason for being where they are is very helpful in creating consistent and believable characters. Which in turn make it easier to write a dramatic yet believable story.

Example is Gollum in LotR. He's basically just a plot device for the Hobbits to get into Mordor. Without him it feels like it'd be completely unrealistic (within the LotR confines of realism) for them to ever accomplish their task. Yet he ends up turning into a consistent character, and one who makes the story that much more interesting.

Even though he's really just there because he sort of has to be, the depth and thought put into his character really just writes the story all in itself. It was inevitable that he'd eventually betray them to try and get the ring. But also inevitable was all the interactions between the group along the way.

Or something like that. Anyway I'm glad you like the idea, I should start charging people for my advice :p
 

Architect

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Example is Gollum in LotR. He's basically just a plot device for the Hobbits to get into Mordor. Without him it feels like it'd be completely unrealistic (within the LotR confines of realism) for them to ever accomplish their task. Yet he ends up turning into a consistent character, and one who makes the story that much more interesting.

Gollum is a central character, hardly any kind of plot device. He plays the role of the anti-hero. His race is probably related to Hobbits according to Gandalf, probably the Stoor branch. So he perfectly is the opposite of Frodo (e.g. "Evil Frodo" or what Frodo would be gone bad) so provides tension, conflict and even comic relief ("Sneaking around!"). The role he plays in destroying the ring is an inevitable conclusion of the anti-hero role in that he finds redemption (even if 'accidental') in the end.

It furthers the main theme of light-dark, good-evil. All the races have corruptions (goblins, trolls and the like) which Morgoth created to mock the Elves, Men and Dwarves. Saruman against Gandalf, Aragorn against Boromir. Even Gimli and Legolas pair up against each other as opposites.

Though I do agree that he neatly solves the tricky issue of how to actually get the ring into Mt Doom.
 

wilsonwatson

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Hey wilsonwatson! I love to read but I'm not sure if I read enough. At most, I may read three books a month which is quite discouraging when I see many people who say they can read a book in two to three days. That speed would not be preferable. I like to read a bit slower, sometimes reread a page or two to get a better understanding, so it can take me much longer to finish. Is this normal? Oh, and goal-setting? I am the absolute worst at it! I may stick to a routine for several days tops then I find something "better" to do. Also, I love fantasy and philosophy. A book has to be mind-opening or filled with magic for me to read it edaciously. However, after reading so many good fantasy novels, I find it hard to write anything even close to what I would consider "good". As for philosophy, the most bothersome barrier would be finding an original approach to the same problem. So, all in all, I would say I lack the perseverance to finish a work. I was advised to just write and not to look back, finishing a story then going back to edit. In spite of that, I reread and edit EVERY SINGLE PAGE. Do you have any advice as how to remedy this?

There's nothing wrong with reading slower. Reading books in two or three days comes with the experience of reading often. Read at your pace. If you try to speed it up then you won't benefit yourself at all, because you won't be processing enough.

I can't help you that much with goal setting, as I too am terrible at it. I just read when I get depressed, have free time, at night, etc. I have no schedule. I just said that because that's what the writers I know do, but obviously it's not for everyone. Honestly goal-setting is really a J-trait anyway, so it doesn't make sense for me to have suggested it on an INTP forum. Perhaps just...make an effort to read more, with no real specific goals in mind for the number of books you want to read? I'm not sure.

I still think you should write your first works on subjects related to what you read most often. Your first book doesn't even have to be something you consider "good." Practice makes perfect; you're not going to write an amazing novel on the first try. Start with short stories and work your way up to a full-length novel. My writer friends all started with short stories and poems. They all (including myself) keep notebooks with them all the time and just...write...all the time.

Editing is good! Just perhaps go back and edit after you've finished a good chunk of writing, or you'll overanalyze and disrupt your flow...if that makes any sense. In my notebook (mentioned earlier) I just write a bunch of steam-of-consciousness thoughts and musings for my own benefit. Sometimes they turn into poems or short stories. I go back to analyze and edit these, but only a few days after they've been created. Give yourself time to have a new perspective. Again though, I'm not personally trying to be a writer. I'm pretty sure my friends do something similar with their notebooks.
 

redbaron

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Gollum is a central character, hardly any kind of plot device. He plays the role of the anti-hero.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive. Central characters often do serve as plot devices. Which is the point I was making about Gollum being a particularly clever plot device in that he's written with so much depth you never realise it.

Plot devices don't need to be deliberately written in. Lots of characters/things just are plot devices.

"A plot device can be anything which moves the plot forward or maintains it."

Though I do agree that he neatly solves the tricky issue of how to actually get the ring into Mt Doom.

So a perfect example of a plot device, in other words.

ggnore

~

I guess to tie this into advice for improving writing:

Don't get stuck into thinking in rigid concepts like, "this character is an anti-hero, this one is a hero" etc.

Well-written, believable and memorable characters are often more than one thing at once, just like real people.
 

Jennywocky

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To be honest, Tolkien wrote The Hobbit first and didn't even know what the One Ring was when Gollum had it. He was just a character in the story and was evolving over time; he's a great example of an addict and what a long lifetime of self-absorption and junkie behavior can do to you.

I think you can reduce any character to a "plot device," while I think Gollum is larger than that personally. But it doesn't really matter, since the story is the thing. In my own writing, I've learned that labels are something usually added after the fact by others trying to analyze my stuff (and are thus usually 'limited snapshots/angles' on the characters), but when I'm writing, I'm usually focused on characters interacting in a story and the impact of that story on the characters.
 

EditorOne

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When you study writing enough, almost everything begins to look like a plot device, a contrived foil, or whatever. Learning the art of writing, especially fiction, can interfere with the enjoyment of reading.

However:
Don't think you're not good enough to write well.
Remain aware INTP writers tend to explain too much anyway.
A process to aid you: Write one chapter a day. This will keep you down to 2,000 words a day or so, which is not much, really. The next day read what you wrote the day before, adjust it briefly - you may need to give yourself a time limit or you'll find yourself spinning your wheels - then immediately write the next chapter. That helps continuity and "stupids" when you blank out on something.

Conversation carries writing forward for most people. Dialogue among characters, not exposition.

Structure matters. A modern paradigm is to end each chapter leaving the reader with a puzzle, an unresolved crisis, something to turn the next page. A number of early novelists started out writing not novels, but serializations published in weekly newspapers - they had to lay things out to make the reader want to buy the next edition, otherwise their value to the publisher was less. Out of that necessity you get the virtue of books like 'The Count of Monte Cristo' by Alexandre Dumas, written 1844 as a serialization in a Paris newspaper. It is worth reading the book for the relentless structuring, although the prose may leave you blind and gasping. It is worth reading about Dumas, also; he had the advantage of living and participating in interesting times, which leads to another point: Write what you know about, and if you don't know enough about something, learn about it, even if you have to actually talk to a human being in the field you need to learn. Every successful author does this. The reasons are many, but paramount: Give your readers good value with good information, even if the information is en passant or background; don't expect readers who find you making mistakes in topics they know about to put up with it. Nothing like a WWII novel that puts a general who was in the Pacific in charge at Bastogne to drive away your audience among WWII buffs, for instance.
Good fiction is just storytelling on steroids. If you want a good example of a solid writer enjoying commercial success just by richly telling good stories about interesting people, try any of Craig Johnson's 'Longmire' books.
There is a lot to learn, but there is also nothing to stop you from getting started.

Caveat: I have talked to successful authors who benefitted from sharing writing critiques with groups of other aspiring writers, and to those who said the process was corrosive and marked by gratuitously cruel comments from writers jaded by their failure and eager to make everyone as miserable as themselves. So be careful with that.
 

redbaron

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When you study writing enough, almost everything begins to look like a plot device, a contrived foil, or whatever. Learning the art of writing, especially fiction, can interfere with the enjoyment of reading.

I plead guilty.
 

Architect

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When our resident author speaks, one should listen ...

Conversation carries writing forward for most people. Dialogue among characters, not exposition.

Structure matters.

OT, but dialog is probably what drove me out of trying to write fiction. "He says ... she says ..." I found it terribly boring. The structural and analysis is what interested me, not the glue needed to move the story along.

Anyhow people jumped on terms, and it sounded like I did too (plot device). The point was to show that Gollum is an important part of the story. Writing is craft, as is composing (as a famous composer told me once). Craft means making something, knowing precedent for it (previous writing), an eye towards what people want now, and taking away the elements that don't add to the product. A photographer once told me "if it's not adding to the picture, it's taking away". This explain EditorOne's comment; everything begins to look like a plot device, because everything in a story is there to move the plot along. Anything that doesn't do that is taken out.
 
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