Need help defining love

[Xiano]

A very strange thing to ask. There are a lot of words I don't understand. A friend sent me a text "I love you (name)... ". There have been some occasions where people have said something similiar. I never really understood the meaning. It's like "Thank you" but it's a little bit simpler to understand. It's just saying "I appreciate what you did." And then the social norm is too say back "You're welcome."; which is actually harder to understand. I'm pretty stupid I know.

In the past decade of knowing this person this is the first time that person has said anything of the sorts. From my understanding just like with, "Thank you", you're suppose to say something back. So usually I don't say "You're welcome" and some people tend to dislike that. Because I don't want to say something that I don't understand. Because if I don't understand it how could I possibly be honest about what I'm saying? And I care about this friend so I don't want the friend to dislike me if I didn't say thank you. So I literally looked it up on the dictionary. And there's like over 10 different definitions. For the same exact word. So it doesn't seem like the dictionary knows what it means either.

So can someone define it for me? So I can respond honestly.

 

[Mithrandir]

Not strange at all. Love can mean a few things. It might help to start with a few broad categories to pick from.

• Erotic love - this is basically sexual attraction, and probably the most commonly thought of usage.
• Brotherly love - this is a platonic admiration in friendship.
• Affectionate love - this is motherly love, or protective love, common among family members and the animal kingdom.
• Charitable love - a self-sacrificing, unconditional love, think helping someone in need for nothing in return

Typically, any usage of "love" will fall into these four categories. Pick the one/s you think this situation is in and go from there.

 

[Lot]

Don't hurt me.
Don't hurt me
No more

 

[ChouMasamori]

A very strange thing to ask. There are a lot of words I don't understand. A friend sent me a text "I love you (name)... ". There have been some occasions where people have said something similiar. I never really understood the meaning. It's like "Thank you" but it's a little bit simpler to understand. It's just saying "I appreciate what you did." And then the social norm is too say back "You're welcome."; which is actually harder to understand. I'm pretty stupid I know.

In the past decade of knowing this person this is the first time that person has said anything of the sorts. From my understanding just like with, "Thank you", you're suppose to say something back. So usually I don't say "You're welcome" and some people tend to dislike that. Because I don't want to say something that I don't understand. Because if I don't understand it how could I possibly be honest about what I'm saying? And I care about this friend so I don't want the friend to dislike me if I didn't say thank you. So I literally looked it up on the dictionary. And there's like over 10 different definitions. For the same exact word. So it doesn't seem like the dictionary knows what it means either.

So can someone define it for me? So I can respond honestly.

If i were to define love, it was when you are so emotionally-attached with particular someone with no particular reason. It is unreasonable. If you are good-enough friend with her, you can at least try dating to be certain with your own feelings. Or, you can just explain it with a wall-of-text how you feel about this confession. Whatever you do, don't leave this alone.

 

[nanook]

you have a lot of understanding, if you know that this instance of love was meant to be a version of thank you. unless you are wrong about that.

yes, love is often communicated, while an appreciation of the gift, that you have been to that person, is experienced.

love is not appreciation, but is pure perception, pure perception IS what is being perceived. love is that 'sense' or 'being-ness' of accepting something so fully that you appear to become it, for that exact moment in time. "you are a part of me"

and this quality of perception OF YOU becomes apparent in the absence of resentments against you. because resentments distract perception from perceiving you, more precisely any directly perceived aspect of you.

instead thoughts "about you" are being perceived primarily. they get in the way.

to be grateful means to put any resentments into perspective and is therefore a doorway to a direct perception, a loving perception of whatever one is grateful for. for instance life. and any human company you can have in life. since the human condition is the perception of life, and others are a major player of life, appreciation of others unveils a love for one's own live.

you are welcome means "i enjoy giving to you, because i accept your taking from me, because i can perceive you truly, accept you, and along with you my own perception of you, which is my life and so your taking from me is only reinforcing my love of life"

the opposite would be "you are not welcome, i don't really want you to profit from me, i just had a hard time saying No to your need, but next time don't expect me to be there for you. whenever you take from me, all i experience is not you, but my own resentments about you and my hate of myself, since i am only judging my own incapacity to say no to your needs"

either i have enlightened you or your are more confused than before. which is it?

 

[k9b4]

Hmm, love is a word which, as you already know from your dictionary, is used to mean a number of different things.

Some more context would help to determine the other person's exact meaning. Are you of the other person's preferred mating gender? Did you do something recently for the person which they could be saying thank you for? Do you suspect that this person has feelings for you? Any other context which could help?

Perhaps you could reply asking what exactly do they mean? This may cause offense though, if the other person is confessing their feelings for you.

 

[Xiano]

I find it slightly funny that I intentionally left out the gender yet simply it was interpreted as a "she". Well to be fair the friend is a she. But I have to make something clear. She is a lesbian. After about six months of knowing her she told a so called "friend" of her's she was gay. The "friend" was not a very decent person. She flipped out and told any one she possibly could.

It took me eight years to tell her how I felt. Why? Because I knew it wouldn't make a difference for obvious reasons. That was a few months back. I had expected her to be weird-ed out or just uncomfortable. But she was understanding instead. And oddly she got closer to me. She was diagnosed with depression at an early age. And after I told her this just by coincidence slowly people started to abandon her. Which was rough. Can you imagine an INTP having someone pour their heart out to you? It was rough and I tried my best. However the last few months have been even rougher. So much pain was inflicted upon her. And I tried my best to be human and support her.

I think the only reason I was able to do that is because I know how she thinks so well that at times it scares her but at the same time comforts her to know that somebody in the world has some understanding.

I'm really alien. I don't think at least with her "how do I get her in bed?". And I have observed enough in the world around me. That I feel stupid at times and incapable. It's like at times even the very little I understand. It's more than any one else understands. That I seek the truth no matter what it is. Let me tell you finding out the truth is hard. In fact it's the most complicated and difficult thing to do. When you figure out the truth. You feel like you finally arrived at the right answer and you feel confident that if you tell someone else you're enlightening them.

The reality is one of two scenarios occur a) You unintentionally make the person angry and they refuse to believe it. b) They understand the issue. And will simply say "That's how the world works. It's how it always worked. I suggest you work in the same way because you can't change it and it's the only way." Granted I'm paraphrasing for brevity sake.

Over the years I have tried to understand it. Because what I've observed is when you like someone and they don't like you back. Move on. Or in this case most people would simply move on after finding out the person they like is not even interested in your gender much less you. That never happened to me. Never once did I think that way. More disappointingly people not only say this and believe in it but are proud of it. Relationships are like a game. You have to act a certain way. Say certain things. Do certain things. It's like they view the world in one dimension. You get his or her attention, you play a bit of a game, if you win. Well congratulations you have earned sex. If you don't well then you move on. If you don't play the game you are looked at as pathetic, pitied, or if your a male "you're not a real man."

That has never set well with me and never will. The result? I've never been with someone. Well that's not entirely true. I have been with a few women. All of them seemed fake. They never lasted for more than a couple months. I will tell you something sex is overrated. In fact I wish I was a virgin. Because the people I had sex with well I'm sorry there's more to it then just physical attraction. Attraction matters. But in what I've found very little. However if there's no attraction for obvious reasons it's not going to work. The most important part is that personal connection. And I can hear them now saying "Grow some balls.", "Man up.", "Are you gay?", "That sounds so gay.", the list can go on. But that's how most people work. I say most simply because I haven't met all 7 billion+ people on the planet.

I tried looking for an explanation on my feelings for her. I thought maybe I was just a hypocrite and tried to define lust, obsession, delusional, crazy, every mental illness I could find. None of them came close. It was not until very recently that I believe something I didn't want to admit to my self. Something so simple. It's still hard to admit for some odd reason. Maybe because INTP's or just me wasn't built for it. Simply I had fallen in love with her so many years ago. If you truly fall in love with somebody not the BS that people will spew. Actually truly loving someone. It does not simply go away.

It can however with what I'll attempt to describe. That you can bury it or whatever else you try to do (and trust me I've tried a lot). You may succeed in weakening the neural connection in that part of the brain. But you didn't get rid of it. You didn't cure it. It's apart of who you are. You temporarily are able to ignore it for even months. But it will come back like it never went away. It will come back and the neural connection may even strengthen.

When you have this. You will not care if this person is with you or with another person. You will care from what I have learned if that other person crushes the heart of the person you love. Bottom line is all you want is for them to be happy. It's painful and probably more painful for an INTP to know that person will never feel the same. They can make you feel any emotion which is especially troubling for an INTP. Happy, sad, it does not matter. If they are happy you are happy and if they are in pain you will be in pain. You will try to do your best to take that pain away from them. You will see the good in them and the bad. You will see their strengths and weaknesses. You will accept that person no matter what. You will be their for that person no matter what.

As an INTP that can be incredibly hard. You will question if you're intentions are good or bad. You will question if what you just said, did, or didn't do hurt that person. You will wonder if the best thing for that person is to leave their life. Then you will think is it really the best thing for them or me? You are human. Their will be a time when you make a mistake. That leaving their life was not the best thing for them. They needed you and you let them down. You did it selfishly. You will attempt to become a better person as a result. You would do anything for this person.

Honestly as an INTP. As me. As a human being. I question my true intentions. That my true intention will show up and hurt that person. As an INTP I question my sanity at times. I question the logic in it all. In the end you conclude that love is not explainable. No matter how bad you want to explain it. There are some things you can't explain.

However if you read all that. I'm ready to hear your response.

 

[StevenM]

Love does not obey our expectations. It only faithfully obeys our intentions.

I read that on the internet, it's an interesting insight.

I'm sorry for bringing in a personal experience, but unrequited love is common with a lot of people. In my situation, I decided to 'move on'. But it was the easiest choice for me, because I was in more pain than the other person. It might have been a slightly selfish move, but it did even-out the playing field. But the moral of that is, you have to make sure you are able to support yourself, before you can support others.

But in the other case, such as your story, it may be even more difficult. It seems the other option (besides breaking it off and moving on), is just to allow yourself to love her, and be accepting and okay of what you are going to get back in return. Which kinda follows my quote above. Let love be in your intentions, not in your expectations.

Don't be ashamed, or beat yourself up for seeking deeper relationships. Obviously, the statement that everyone is shallow is an over-generalization. Needing better connections with people does not mean anything about your masculinity, or in other words, you can still be considered masculine, and still seek meaning in your relationships.

 

[Xiano]

Love does not obey our expectations. It only faithfully obeys our intentions.

I read that on the internet, it's an interesting insight.

I'm sorry for bringing in a personal experience, but unrequited love is common with a lot of people. In my situation, I decided to 'move on'. But it was the easiest choice for me, because I was in more pain than the other person. It might have been a slightly selfish move, but it did even-out the playing field. But the moral of that is, you have to make sure you are able to support yourself, before you can support others.

But in the other case, such as your story, it may be even more difficult. It seems the other option (besides breaking it off and moving on), is just to allow yourself to love her, and be accepting and okay of what you are going to get back in return. Which kinda follows my quote above. Let love be in your intentions, not in your expectations.

Well it's a good thing I learned a long time ago not to expect anything in return. Well technically I do. Because I ultimately in the end always acquire some new knowledge. That's really more of a side effect than an expectation. I'm definitely not the person that people go to to "seek help" however when shit hit's the fan they do seem to come to me every single time. I have to say you see a very strange side of people. They suddenly act like you're best friends, and that they have some sort of care. I see right through the BS though. I feel relieved because most of the time they act as if your some god then quickly realize I'm not buying it and get to the point.

More people than you think will start to get comfortable. Shit hit's the fan they can come to me and I'll fix whatever the hell it is.

Speaking of the devil. I'll ignore my phone blowing up. Damn I lost my train of thought.

Alright I remember what I was thinking. So then they kinda get the idea they can "use" me. I had a better word but I lost it. I guess the idea of running me over. They are no longer requests they are demands. And if you get burnt out and find that you need to have a little time to yourself and say something like "Kinda busy right now. Can I do that tomorrow?". They'll go crazy on you. But that's all it takes. I don't snap back. Well I guess my form of snapping back is just to hang up. And that person won't ever be getting my help again. Or if you are not on the phone. There's this wonderful thing an INTP can do. Tune out. Or walk away. Just slowly walk away.

There's another thing. I'm sure it won't come as any surprise but everybody lies. That's not what gets me it's more strange. They will lie without you ever asking a question all you have to do is listen. The INTP I dunno spidey sense will pick up. I keep saying INTP when I doubt this applies to all INTP's. Anyways I'll get that sixth sense like "hmm what they just said didn't make sense. Did they just lie?" well all it takes is a very simple question after they lie and then go back to listening mode to verify that it is indeed a lie. I mean a really simple question is all it takes.

For example let's say they tell you that "I saw X yesterday." and you simply ask "What did you think about it?" a simple question like that and it can even be simpler. And just resume listening and you'll know it's a lie. And you just think to yourself why would they lie about something so simple? With that said even though every human lie's some of them have good enough character to admit it. Because it may be a day later or a couple days later. And maybe they just make these small little lies so much it's hard for them to keep track of them. So they will say something and you will say "hmm... i thought you had told me something different?" you don't accuse them of lieing again just very simple question and back to listening mode. The good character's will admit it and it'll be some stupid excuse for well a stupid lie. Other people will just continue to lie.

It just strikes me that makes me curious I guess. Because they are often very simple lies that you don't probably even care they lied about.

Don't be ashamed, or beat yourself up for seeking deeper relationships. Obviously, the statement that everyone is shallow is an over-generalization. Needing better connections with people does not mean anything about your masculinity, or in other words, you can still be considered masculine, and still seek meaning in your relationships.

I never said all people or everyone in my previous post. In fact I carefully choose my words to say "most" and even literally said this at the end "I say most simply because I haven't met all 7 billion+ people on the planet." Unless your just speaking about all of the people I've met. I'll admit I don't have perfect memory recall. So everyone I recall ever meeting. Literally. As in right after I meet them one of the very first few questions goes something along the lines of "You seeing (or) dating any one." and whether I am or not I'm not gonna tell you. Your name is what again? then some usual follow up "Well you see that fine piece of ass over there." I'm not joking. If they don't say some stupid crap like that within the first 5 minutes they'll manage to come across soon enough as a bit well "shallow" I guess. What's even more amazing they may seem like they graduated from the kiddy pool and claim that they don't think that way. So you'll buy it until well they say or do something that makes you feel like you finally met the real person.

Those people simply like all people lie. Those bible-thumpers that you don't really ever feel comfortable around because they like to talk about how they experienced the grace of god or something like that. And they will remind you several times. Those types of people admittedly take a little longer to reveal the real shallow person when they finally stop talking about being touched by god and miracles. I mean as far back as I can remember being like 4 or 5 years old meeting the same exact type of people.

Hmm I dunno maybe we live in completely different cultures like I said I haven't met all 7billion+ people on earth. Hell it's hard for me to believe that everybody I meet is like that. There's more things than just that. It's just that happened to be related to the topic. So when you take a step back and take a brief moment to reflect you feel a bit like an alien or maybe more accurately like everyone has been turned into robots. Hell you start to think your delusional. So you start questioning. Even though all evidence points to that your not delusional. However you still think your delusional. I guess if I think I'm delusional I dunno it gives me a bit of hope. That I could be missing something. That I could be wrong.

 

[Xiano]

Well she said it again last night through a text. I didn't know how to respond. It was late so I just went to bed. 99% sure she means it in a platonic friendship kind of deal as someone suggested before. It just feels weird to say it. Well in this case I'm not saying it I'm just typing it into a text message. However considering what I said previously I feel a bit hypocritical.

It's complex I thought I had figured out all the parts but there is something missing. Something small. I'll figure it out eventually. I think...

 

[k9b4]

Well she said it again last night through a text. I didn't know how to respond. It was late so I just went to bed. 99% sure she means it in a platonic friendship kind of deal as someone suggested before. It just feels weird to say it. Well in this case I'm not saying it I'm just typing it into a text message. However considering what I said previously I feel a bit hypocritical.

It's complex I thought I had figured out all the parts but there is something missing. Something small. I'll figure it out eventually. I think...

Honestly I can't be bothered reading that huge wall of text that you wrote. So I'm just going to say...

If you have feelings for this person, and you suspect this person has feelings for you, do not hesitate to ask him/her/it to meet up and do something together, like a date.

 

[StevenM]

I'm assuming you are very much 'in love' with her, and have feelings for her. Or maybe not. At least, this information is known.

It's complex I thought I had figured out all the parts but there is something missing. Something small. I'll figure it out eventually. I think...

Your trying to figure out someone else's mind, how they feel, and how they see the situation, without any effective communication to work with. Your trying to 'mind read' someone based on ambiguous and vague actions and behaviours.

I'd say it's a fool's game. The only trusted way of knowing exactly what's going on is

A) Concisely describe to her how you feel.
B) Ask her precise questions of how she feels.

Be sure to prepare the situation to make it as comfortable as possible, so communication can flow freely, and there is no reason to hold anything back.

Whatever answer she gives you will be the most valid, and there will be no more need to predict and make assumptions.