Necessary Context

[Solitaire U.]

...and the only person I have lashed out at is someone who clearly disrespected me.

Actually, it looked more like a defense maneuver than a lashing out to me. Just FWIW, I'm not feeling lashed.

You don't seem to understand that respect is earned, not taken for granted. Making an entrance with insults and name-calling of other places and people doesn't earn you respect, or pity, or empathy...it just earns you an equal measure of what you've given.

Yeah, INTPc is no more collectively prefect than you yourself are, but it''''''''''''''s still the stomping ground of several folks who are undeserving of your petty wrath, a couple of whom I might personally consider friends.

If you're a victim, get off the stage and go find a court of law to vent in. If you want respect, chill the fuck out and earn it.

@ BigApple...Your request is muddled, but the absurdity leaking from it is clearly visible. I do have a 9 year old within reach who has expressed willingness to define 'coward' and 'asshole' for you though...

 

[Magnetosphere]

intp make great glory for trivialistic nation of glorious equal north korea people republic

 

[Moocow]

1. I believe skepticism can be learned through experience. However, skepticism alone is not critical thinking, and while some may learn a process that works to the same effect as so called "critical thinking" there is no telling which people are going to make use of it or completely forget because they don't care.
So in short, I don't believe you can teach someone a practice they have no interest in, and some people simply do not care to think critically.

3. Psychedelics don't cure suffering. Thinking too hard about suffering may cause depression. So no, they don't "cure" depression.
However, they might help you to change your perspective on suffering and life in general in ways that can undermine the cognitive (or perhaps even physiological) basis for depression.

5. In this era of information and cultural diversity, no. I do not believe in their implicit truth. I do believe they exist as concepts by which people make and have made significant judgments.

7. Is freedom terrifying if you're free from terror?

8.

Perhaps more on this later when I feel compelled to explain. Only if anyone actually cares enough.

9. See #3.
Otherwise, self-compassion.

10. It depends on when you ask me.

 

[Lobstrich]

Ok now I'm confused. I have carefully responded to every single person who has replied to this thread, and the only person I have lashed out at is someone who clearly disrespected me.

That's not true.. Just saying.

 

[Magnetosphere]

I love how dramatic the introduction threads are up in this hood.

 

[cheese]

7. I don't think freedom is terrifying for everyone. For those who *do* find it terrifying, I'd guess it's because of the overwhelming scale of possibilities available to you. Every second presents an opportunity to deviate from the course of the previous second, and that amount of processing and decision-making is probably too much for the brain to handle. Walking up the street on the way to work can become an incredible feat of strength, and not because of Monday blues. At every step you could go in any number of directions. This is only the physical aspect, too; when you start choosing how you interact with other people, conversations become nigh impossible because there are so many outcomes to choose from (straight communication, shock, confusion, etc); when you start choosing who *you yourself* are, your ability to function takes the biggest blow because without the form immutable personality provides, the decision-making process is completely rudderless.

(Most?) People need parameters, some sort of boundaries to push and rail against. The human brain is a problem solver, and it can't solve problems without parameters. An interesting case study I read once involved a survivor of head trauma who'd had his amygdala injured, and found it almost impossible to make decisions because no option was emotionally preferable to any other (sounds very INTP-ish, imo).

In fact, I'd even say people LOVE limits. We are a species of worshipers - we love to idolise and in doing so recognise and reaffirm our own limitations, and often even take joy in them; love itself is worshiped precisely because it is a force that (supposedly) cannot be overcome.

I believe this is a result of the way we have evolved - our communities are strongly hierarchical in nature, with dominant individuals at the top (there are obvious parallels in other great ape communities) that the lower rungs must pay homage to. It makes sense for the less dominant/more submissive/'slaves' to enjoy their servitude. In one study investigating the phenomenon of celebrity worship, they found monkeys would rather stare at photos of high-ranking monkeys than eat a banana (which was earlier demonstrated to be a highly coveted prize).

We are used to, and have grown to need on some level, control and oppression. We love to be weighed down by circumstances beyond our control - without that, responsibility is too great for most of us to bear. There are exceptions of course, just as there are alphas and loners. But generally, the oppressors we strive against - man, or society, or concept, or sensation, or emotion, or thought - provide the illusion of purpose and movement, while actually fulfilling the need for security (in passing the buck), and idol-worship.

(Sorry this post sucks so much, but I thought the idea was interesting.)

 

[Bird]

intp make great glory for trivialistic nation of glorious equal north korea people republic

Did you just string some words together?
Because I think you forgot some vital
parts of speech.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Did you just string some words together?
Because I think you forgot some vital
parts of speech.

What he said is quite brilliant in North Korea speak. A most reasonable contribution to what this thread has become.

Btw, would anyone (moderators) mind if I issued an invatation to the folks at INTJf or INFPf to bring their arguments and disagreements here. Surely we don't need context or anything...

 

[Magnetosphere]

What he said is quite brilliant in North Korea speak. A most reasonable contribution to what this thread has become.

This.

All of the introduction threads I've seen crop up on here always seem to be full of disagreements, insult-throwing, and debate! Why can't we have a bit of love and joy in here? Aren't INTPs supposed to loving, caring, and extremely personable? C'mon, now! Let's all band together and work to improve the situation!

 

[Solitaire U.]

"band together"...Oh for fuck's sake.

I have a better idea...let's hang the carpet out to dry and go pee on North Korea for awhile. Deliver us to glory Ryan, with your chimpanzee leading the charge.

 

[BigApplePi]

7. I don't think freedom is terrifying for everyone. For those who *do* find it terrifying, I'd guess it's because of the overwhelming scale of possibilities available to you. Every second presents an opportunity to deviate from the course of the previous second, and that amount of processing and decision-making is probably too much for the brain to handle. Walking up the street on the way to work can become an incredible feat of strength, and not because of Monday blues. At every step you could go in any number of directions. This is only the physical aspect, too; when you start choosing how you interact with other people, conversations become nigh impossible because there are so many outcomes to choose from (straight communication, shock, confusion, etc); when you start choosing who *you yourself* are, your ability to function takes the biggest blow because without the form immutable personality provides, the decision-making process is completely rudderless.

Having limits gives you rules. What fun is a game without rules? Come to think of it, ever play a game, got bored with it then releasing the rules? See what happens.

(Most?) People need parameters, some sort of boundaries to push and rail against. The human brain is a problem solver, and it can't solve problems without parameters. An interesting case study I read once involved a survivor of head trauma who'd had his amygdala injured, and found it almost impossible to make decisions because no option was emotionally preferable to any other (sounds very INTP-ish, imo).

In fact, I'd even say people LOVE limits. We are a species of worshipers - we love to idolise and in doing so recognise and reaffirm our own limitations, and often even take joy in them; love itself is worshiped precisely because it is a force that (supposedly) cannot be overcome.

I believe this is a result of the way we have evolved - our communities are strongly hierarchical in nature, with dominant individuals at the top (there are obvious parallels in other great ape communities) that the lower rungs must pay homage to. It makes sense for the less dominant/more submissive/'slaves' to enjoy their servitude. In one study investigating the phenomenon of celebrity worship, they found monkeys would rather stare at photos of high-ranking monkeys than eat a banana (which was earlier demonstrated to be a highly coveted prize).

We are used to, and have grown to need on some level, control and oppression. We love to be weighed down by circumstances beyond our control - without that, responsibility is too great for most of us to bear. There are exceptions of course, just as there are alphas and loners. But generally, the oppressors we strive against - man, or society, or concept, or sensation, or emotion, or thought - provide the illusion of purpose and movement, while actually fulfilling the need for security (in passing the buck), and idol-worship.

(Sorry this post sucks so much, but I thought the idea was interesting.)

Good post, cheese, because it hits the issues. There is no such thing as absolute freedom. If one's bounds are suddenly flung away, one finds oneself outside a confining box only to encounter another box. The problem is this 2nd box has rules which one is not familiar with. Playing in this box might be fun at 1st, but eventually, probably soon, one gets buffeted by the rules of the outside box.

Ever play a game, sports or cards, get bored and loosen or drop some rules? See what happens. The game weakens somehow.

 

[BigApplePi]

Originally Posted by BigApplePi
Hey Solitaire and zago, I'm intrigued by your conflicts which seem to be dominated by functions other than what are normally considered dominant INTP functions. Use of such technical terms as "asshole" and "coward" are way too difficult for me to grasp just like that. They either need to be defined for me to get or perhaps some other way of describing what when on.

I'll tell you what zago, if you give me a link or two of either a true or a quasi-"asshole", perhaps I can venture an opinion. Of course, I am horning in here but I could argue this is a public board, not that that is any excuse, lol.

zago: Can't really understand what you mean.

By all that I mean although your original post contains 10 great Q's, the description of your motives for coming here was emotional. It gives no details of the drama behind the motives. That is un-INTP-like. I suppose that was necessary and to be expected but leaves open Qs in my mind. Nevertheless you could have JUST posted the 10 questions, but you didn't. Interesting.

 

[Magnetosphere]

"band together"...Oh for fuck's sake.

I have a better idea...let's hang the carpet out to dry and go pee on North Korea for awhile. Deliver us to glory Ryan, with your chimpanzee leading the charge.

That's the spirit! I think, anyway. That wasn't sarcasm, was it, my totally awesome personality brother?

Gosh, I'm so glad that we all have the chance to get to know each other and contribute to such a fantastic, AWESOME community for like-minded individuals!!!

 

[Solitaire U.]

It's a pretty good bet, dawg...my sarcasm rating runs around 95%.

 

[Magnetosphere]

Wowzers, that's pretty high!

Please don't use sarcasm around me! I know we're all INTPs and whatnot, but I lack a Sarcasomometer, so I can never, ever tell when you're being serious or when you're being sarcastic!

 

[Jennywocky]

Gosh, I'm so glad that we all have the chance to get to know each other and contribute to such a fantastic, AWESOME community for like-minded individuals!!!

Ick. I need to take a shower now.

 

[Magnetosphere]

Ick. I need to take a shower now.

That was approximately the effect I was hoping to induce.

 

[Zeldon]

1. I believe skepticism can be learned through experience. However, skepticism alone is not critical thinking, and while some may learn a process that works to the same effect as so called "critical thinking" there is no telling which people are going to make use of it or completely forget because they don't care.
So in short, I don't believe you can teach someone a practice they have no interest in, and some people simply do not care to think critically.

3. Psychedelics don't cure suffering. Thinking too hard about suffering may cause depression. So no, they don't "cure" depression.
However, they might help you to change your perspective on suffering and life in general in ways that can undermine the cognitive (or perhaps even physiological) basis for depression.

5. In this era of information and cultural diversity, no. I do not believe in their implicit truth. I do believe they exist as concepts by which people make and have made significant judgments.

7. Is freedom terrifying if you're free from terror?

8.

Perhaps more on this later when I feel compelled to explain. Only if anyone actually cares enough.

9. See #3.
Otherwise, self-compassion.

10. It depends on when you ask me.

I have always been one to fight fire with fire. Self mutilation might inflict more suffering, but it cures it in the end, does it not?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Fighting fire with fire does no justice for no one, you will just end up blackened. You must jump in the fire to seek and destroy.

 

[Zeldon]

Fighting fire with fire does no justice for no one, you will just end up blackened. You must jump in the fire to seek and destroy.

Let the fire extinguish itself. I will resist it until it does.

 

[Moocow]

I wouldn't advocate self mutilation. There are other ways to harmlessly inflict physical pain if you want to experiment with perception of it.

Extremely spicy food is a good start.

 

[Zeldon]

I wouldn't advocate self mutilation. There are other ways to harmlessly inflict physical pain if you want to experiment with perception of it.

Extremely spicy food is a good start.

I did that... I just love hot sauce!

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Let the fire extinguish itself. I will resist it until it does.

That may be wise; as the saying goes "don't play with fire".

 

[Zeldon]

That may be wise; as the saying goes "don't play with fire".

I have learned that from experience.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I have learned that from experience.

Ah, I'm sure you're intelligence is highly developed. You are INTj after all? You're on another level than INTps.

 

[Zeldon]

Ah, I'm sure you're intelligence is highly developed. You are INTj after all? You're on another level than INTps.

Earth beats water, water beats fire, fire beats wind, and wind beats earth. This is the secret code of communication.

 

[Magnetosphere]

Such a complicated one, at that...

 

[Magnetosphere]

...

 

[Magnetosphere]

 

[crippli]

Earth beats water, water beats fire, fire beats wind, and wind beats earth. This is the secret code of communication.

What about a black hole?

 

[Zeldon]

What about a black hole?

Sucks energy. It should be careful on what it intakes. I should add that it should be careful not to suck itself... Ouch!

 

[Jennywocky]

That was approximately the effect I was hoping to induce.

Hey, I just finally scrubbed off all the goo. Did I miss anything in the last 24 hours?

 

[BigApplePi]

Untie the NOT.

 

[Zeldon]

Nothing is obvious to my intuition.