Narcissim -Self Realization

[seijitakk]

-

 

[CoryJames]

Hint. Make future posts more aesthetically appealing. Your massive text block just shit all over the curiosity your subject had initially imbued.

Seriously. Edit and repost that with some topic sentences, page breaks, etc.

 

[Eclipse]

Hint. Make future posts more aesthetically appealing. Your massive text block just shit all over the curiosity your subject had initially imbued.

Seriously. Edit and repost that with some topic sentences, page breaks, etc.

I lol'd.

 

[Taniwha]

Narcissists don't realize that they are narcissists until told otherwise, and even then chances are they won't care.

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Hint. Make future posts more aesthetically appealing. Your massive text block just shit all over the curiosity your subject had initially imbued.

Seriously. Edit and repost that with some topic sentences, page breaks, etc.

Well shit...the results of that were definitely less than ideal.

 

[CoryJames]

Or better than expected, depending on how you look at it.

 

[Saoshyant]

Narcissists don't realize that they are narcissists until told otherwise, and even then chances are they won't care.

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

Really? Arrogant I can buy. But narcissistic? How-so? Maybe someone needs to inform me that I am

 

[typus]

Narcissists don't realize that they are narcissists until told otherwise, and even then chances are they won't care.

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

so a safe way to find out whether one is a narcissist or not is to ask oneself if one is, and if the answer is yes, one is not a narcissist?

cool beans

 

[CoryJames]

so a safe way to find out whether one is a narcissist or not is to ask oneself if one is, and if the answer is yes, one is not a narcissist?

cool beans

No, a safe way to find out if one is a narcissist is to ask oneself out on a date, and if the answer is yes, then one is.

 

[crippli]

I have asked myself this question several times. I think it depends on what perspective one chooses to use.

Even if you walk around naked in the city. It's not given that you do it because you think your naked flesh is beautiful to behold.

Could be because your clothes is in the washing machine and you would like an apple. Then that begs the question, who is narcissistic?

It's not so clearly cut.

And that I even consider these things, points to low narcissism I presume.

 

[Fukyo]

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

.....and why is that?

 

[typus]

No, a safe way to find out if one is a narcissist is to ask oneself out on a date, and if the answer is yes, then one is.

you call that safe?

 

[CoryJames]

you call that safe?

What's the worse that could happen? You go on a date with yourself. Likely you'd have a great time too.

 

[typus]

What's the worse that could happen? You go on a date with yourself. Likely you'd have a great time too.

but what if i'm a date rapist?

 

[CoryJames]

Then you'll be getting lucky....squared.

 

[Magnetosphere]

I just took a look at the "High IQ" forum on INTP Central - by the looks of it, it seems to be absolutely flooded with narcissism. While I'm certainly capable of differentiating between degrees of intelligence, the sheer arrogance with which some people post disgusts me. I know I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis over the Internet - especially when it comes to people I don't even know - but give me a break. Half the material I read was along the lines of, "I've decided to join this high IQ forum because I'm of a higher caliber than other users, most of whom can never seem to grasp the greatness of my intellect". Seriously? Come on.

And I agree with the person who said that INTP and ENTP personalities are most likely to become narcissistic, though I believe that holds true only to an extent. I can't speak with confidence about ENTPs, but the isolation and preoccupation with one's own thoughts that seem to characterize INTP personalities is a great potential breeding ground for an array of cool mental disorders. It's a natural thing - you spend enough time in your own head, you dissociate yourself from others, pretty soon, you're relying on yourself for almost everything. You undervalue the achievements and the worth of other humans.

Not saying it's the case with all of us. I'm sure it's a minority, but it does seem like a good number of us INTPs seem to be a bit on the arrogant side, myself included. I wouldn't classify myself as a narcissist, nor would I classify most of the people I've come into contact with here as narcissists.

 

[Saeros]

so a safe way to find out whether one is a narcissist or not is to ask oneself if one is, and if the answer is yes, one is not a narcissist?

cool beans

No, a safe way to find out if one is a narcissist is to ask oneself out on a date, and if the answer is yes, then one is.

no, a safe way to find out if one is a narcissist is to read the related section of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM).

 

[Magnetosphere]

no, a safe way to find out if one is a narcissist is to read the related section of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM).

That's if your a qualified mental health professional, not a monkey with a fancy manual.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I just took a look at the "High IQ" forum on INTP Central - by the looks of it, it seems to be absolutely flooded with narcissism. While I'm certainly capable of differentiating between degrees of intelligence, the sheer arrogance with which some people post disgusts me. I know I'm not qualified to make a diagnosis over the Internet - especially when it comes to people I don't even know - but give me a break. Half the material I read was along the lines of, "I've decided to join this high IQ forum because I'm of a higher caliber than other users, most of whom can never seem to grasp the greatness of my intellect". Seriously? Come on.

I didn't know INTPc had a high IQ subforum, so I went and checked it out. The only thing that seemed to indicate that they had higher intelligence than the rest of the forum seemed to be that they mentioned it more often.



Someone mentioned it earlier, but I think arrogance would be more accurate to describe INTP. Narcissism seems to imply more of an overabundance of self-love, self-righteousness, and an expectation that everyone else should love you where arrogance would imply an overestimation of ones abilities and perhaps misanthropy.

 

[5k17]

INTPs are not more arrogant that others... just differently.

 

[₲uardian]

Narcissism is a mechanism to advertise your value to a world that doesn't understand your value.

The attempt is natural, but sadly the result is that you still have no value to the world, so you must live by the "delusion" of your superiority to compensate.

 

[GYX_Kid]

there seems to be a recurring NT-ish specialized flavor of egotism; whether it's expressed in the form of arrogance or not is a matter of style.

one definition of narcissism is when the ego issues become envious disorder, and when one decides they should be at war against humanity in some way or another because of it. apparently the original idea for a vampire was based on a classical narcissist: in the way that they can 'hate-rape' a person and then make them need vengeance (blood) to satisfy their ego (life force). narcissist vs narcissist is a war of who can be more pathetic.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I'm an INTP and only I know the truth. Everyone else sees an illusion of emotions and sense data, but I can see through this to how things really work. I am fucking amazing (and modest)!

 

[Stoic Beverage]

Pfft. I'm way too perfect to be a narcissist.

there seems to be a recurring NT-ish specialized flavor of egotism; whether it's expressed in the form of arrogance or not is a matter of style.

Agreed. I personally am a bit of an elitist, and can't help but looking down on a lot of others. I keep it in my head, though.

 

[GYX_Kid]

honest self-appreciation = NOT narcissism

 

[TylerRDA]

Sam Vaknin, is that you?

 

[GYX_Kid]

somewhat experienced narcissism observer, battler

 

[Imrinfected]

Is it narcissism if all of my judgments and perceptions regarding myself are completely accurate, and just?

 

[Magnetosphere]

This isn't relevant to thread, but to the brief discussion about IQ that was occurring earlier:

I'd very much like to take another IQ test.

When I got "in trouble" when I was a young teenager, I was required to undergo an official psychological evaluation, administered by a government psychiatrist. I was given the latest version of the WISC (III or IV), and scored an extremely average IQ of 104. I would have been in the top one or two percentiles, if not for the fact that my verbal IQ was literally 46 points higher than my performance, or visual, IQ.

How does that work out? I realize that environmental factors can play a huge role when it comes to any sort of testing (and I certainly wasn't being tested under positive circumstances), but a 46-point disparity between subscores? That's ridiculous! True, I've never been the best at putting together puzzles or locking together Legos, but this baffles me. The last time I took a physics course, I outperformed all of my peers on tests (not so much with classroom grades, as I slacked something awful; another irony is that I was doing better on tests than one of my table-mates, who had scored 34 or 35 on the mathematics portion of the ACT. I had a 19 in that section, though 35's and 33's in Reading and English, respectively). Isn't performance IQ supposed to determine success in mathematical endeavors? That's essentially what the report that was given to my family says.

Maybe it's narcissism or arrogance in action, but I feel as if I'm not worth much for having an average IQ. There's such a strong correlation between IQ and success that it feels like I won't be able to get anywhere intellectually, regardless of how hard I try or what I do. Richard Feynman, genius that he was, is said to have had a relatively "low" IQ of 126.

Gah. This is more of a whine-rant than anything, but insight from people who are generally as unbiased as me would be helpful. For the sake of my insecure and puny ego, should I take another IQ test?

I could have graduated from high school at 12 or 13 years of age (assuming my parents had let me skip the two grades a teacher had wanted me to, and that I tested out of courses in high school, which plenty of motivated kids have done), the principal and counselor told me that I was the smartest kid in the school (the counselor said she wanted one of my papers before I graduated, so she could sell it if I ever got famous for something), and I consistently feel like a world-class dolt. My ACT composite was decent, but my GPA was so bad I'm having to go to community college to transfer to a state university with a 74% acceptance rate.

Are all of my acquaintances deluding themselves, or am I just a flat-out moron?

---> All things considered, I suppose my inability to accept "average-ness" is somewhat related to the topic of this thread, as the title is all we have.

 

[Cogwulf]

IQ tests...

As has been discussed before, IQ test hold little practical value. They do not tell you how intelligent you are, they tell you how good you are at certain tasks.

On IQ tests, I haven't took a proper one for years actually, I generally do much better on visual questions than verbal ones. But I always feel I would get a better score on the verbal questions if I just had a little bit more time to process it.

 

[Magnetosphere]

Then why are there such strong correlations between IQ scores and novel output? I hope that I'm phrasing things correctly, but many of the papers I've read do seem to lend credence to those proponents of psychometric testing who would declare that their evaluations are quite successful in at least predicting academic potential (not necessarily performance), if not more. IQ can be tied in with various other "life factors", though I think there's too many variables that come into play to determine a causal relationship.

Yet again, this is more my own issue than anything. For much of my early life, my intelligence and my outspoken opinions were the only assurances that I had that I wasn't the ugly, loser-y piece of trash my peers said that I was. My situation changed drastically as I grew older and more attractive, but it still feels as if being "smart" is intrinsically woven into the fabrics of my identity. When that belief is challenged by a test score that disagrees with my perception of myself, I feel threatened.

Thanks for putting up with it and trying to answer. I'll probably get over myself in a few days - just being more introverted and self-conscious than lately.

 

[aaaw]

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

Judging by this forum I would agree. I thought this forum would be a place to explore ideas. But most people seem to be more interested in exploring themselves.

Generally speaking it is useful to remember: you are nowhere near as interesting as you think you are.

 

[aaaw]

Narcissism is a mechanism to advertise your value to a world that doesn't understand your value.

No it's not. It is an excessive interest in, or admiration of, yourself. That is entirely different from promoting your worth or talents to others - although itis not hard to see how the two can become entwined.

 

[Cogwulf]

Then why are there such strong correlations between IQ scores and novel output?

Because the IQ test was created with correlation as the aim.
Someone decided to to test for certain things because more intelligent people tend to be better at those things.
IQ scores don't directly correlate with intelligence, they correlate with factors that correlate with intelligence, if that makes any sense.

It works on statistics and bell curves, most people fall in the middle and the test describes them well. But there will always be people who fall nearer the edges and don't fit into the correlation.

 

[Yet]

Narcissists don't realize that they are narcissists until told otherwise, and even then chances are they won't care.

I would say that INTP's and ENTP's are probably the most prone to being narcissistic.

I cannot agree ... what I learned about NPD is that in it's base there is a deep feeling of low self esteem and feelings of insecurity and as a reaction the psyche blows itself up to proportions that make it feel superior and the best of the best. It is a kind of over reaction. Basically an overreaction with a social intent.

What I know about the -NTP descriptions is that a big curiousity for reality, investigating what is going on, the own motivations, (over)rationalising situations, nihilistic thoughts, everything is too irrelevant and relative and so on is more likely to be the reaction to feelings of insecurity and low self esteem.

I think the -NTP type is not enough interested in social impact and that is the narcist first goal. Not that -NTP's cannot become narcists ... but in my opinion they are certainly not the most prone.
Depression, mania, drugabuse, schizoaffective disorders are more likely.

-edit : ... ow nice one ... I just replied on a 3 month old post... , never mind -

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Judging by this forum I would agree. I thought this forum would be a place to explore ideas. But most people seem to be more interested in exploring themselves.

Generally speaking it is useful to remember: you are nowhere near as interesting as you think you are.

Wow, and I always considered myself pretty uninteresting to begin with. *sadsmiley*

 

[aaaw]

Wow, and I always considered myself pretty uninteresting to begin with. *sadsmiley*

Don't worry, I'm sure your ideas are interesting.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Narcissism is a mechanism to advertise your value to a world that doesn't understand your value.

The attempt is natural, but sadly the result is that you still have no value to the world, so you must live by the "delusion" of your superiority to compensate.

yeah it seems in a basic sense that narcissism and existential nihilism (acceptance of objectivity/that values are just "things", beyond X requirement) would be opposites by defintion ...sometimes

No it's not. It is an excessive interest in, or admiration of, yourself. That is entirely different from promoting your worth or talents to others - although itis not hard to see how the two can become entwined.

a "narcissist" like for example sam vaknin's poster character, would definitely behave in ways that were amoral and self-interested. so in the way that they play by their own rules and have supposedly no personal loyalties, they would assumedly be a really douchebaggish ubermensch [someone here said once that they believe the ENTJ to be the "proto-ubermensch" which i took to imply productive nihilism, + ENTJ which is supposedly the most susceptible type to becoming a sam vaknin fuckhead-narcissist.]
= morally chaotic outward action, in effect

but their ego would be vulnerable from all sides, being so apparently extroverted by this definition and connected to/reliant on that world to give them reassurance


if a "type of detached objectivist who questions things a lot" was relatively less personally affected than average by morally substantial ...substance, this probably only means that their contexts of egotism lie above/outside more of a realm of human activity
= potentially at the "receiving end" in effect, though might not care until their values were potentially re-altered


so basically in a way, narcissist is shark and group B is floaty cloud guy like in super mario. but narcissism and nihilism can intertwine in certain ways and are basically independent of each other


But you're simply talking about "narcissism" as in being so caught up in one's own tiny little insulated personal universe, which may or may not be vulnerable to narcissistic injury/ego damage. it likely would, though an INTPish one may be so detached and apathetic to even compare themself to a larger degree of witnessed environment beyond whAtever level...though it would probably and likely get influenced by it


[/clusterfuck of rambling incohesive idea-gibberish]

apologies if i'm too sleep-deprived etc to be articulate in english, but hopefully there are some points and pieces of ideas in there about definitions and such

^ Related post phrased well but with less tangents, see above ^
^

 

[Magnetosphere]

Because the IQ test was created with correlation as the aim.
Someone decided to to test for certain things because more intelligent people tend to be better at those things.
IQ scores don't directly correlate with intelligence, they correlate with factors that correlate with intelligence, if that makes any sense.

It works on statistics and bell curves, most people fall in the middle and the test describes them well. But there will always be people who fall nearer the edges and don't fit into the correlation.

I understand where you're coming from. After all, the first intelligence tests were developed in France, with the purpose of identifying children with debilitating learning disorders.

Hm. It's interesting. I'd like to say more about the prevalence of high IQ among almost all modern scientists who have achieved exceptional (or, at the very least, highly publicized) results in research. Given that so many men, such as Einstein and Stephen Hawking, never took IQ tests, I'll refrain from doing so.

Looks like I'll have to miss out on the Mensa pizza parties, for now.

 

[SkyWalker]

NPD is not about xxxJ or xxxP, but I believe NPD just requires a stronger T function than F function.
(e.g. xxTx, T>F)

Both narcissism and borderline is caused by a single decision that everybody is the enemy (thus hating/disliking everybody, and loving/liking nobody).

it is simply this simple single decisision of hate that spawns all other higher level boderline/narcissitic rationalities.

if hate=all and love=none, then T>F spawns narcissism, and F>T spawns borderline.

in thinkers/narcissists this hate is secret/covert. in feelers/borderliners this hate is overt.

xxxP keeps options open, thus is less prone to strictly declaring everybody as the enemy.
xxxJ is a quick decider, thus more prone to get stuck in narcissm, once it declares everybody is the enemy, it keeps it that way. that does not mean that xxxJ's are all narcissists, because they could also decide to love/hate on a healthy per-person basis and keep it that way. but once an xxxJ has NPD, it is much harder to cure than an xxxP.
also an xxxJ NPD-er will be a more consistent NPD-er than an xxxP NPD-er, because its decisions are more fixed


about narcsissts being introvert or extravert, i dont think that matters. it will come more to the surface in an extraverted thinker, and thus this NPD-er would effectively wreak more havoc on society. But even though the introverted thinker might wreak less havoc on society, it could still be thoroughly narcissistic inside with thoroughly narcissistic philiosophies inside.