My Stance on the Supernatural

[Old Things]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

 

[Puffy]

stone structures that were built 17.000 years ago, with stone pillars that weigh 1,200 TONS each, that would be impossible to build even with modern technology, or thousands of people trying.

the "thunder stone" in st.petersburg was 1250 tons, moved in 1770 using wooden logs, ropes, and a bunch of men.

it's not aliens, it's just human ingenuity. Give some creds to the ancestors

Yeah, that's an example of what I mean by staying grounded. Because of my experiences I'm pretty much close to 100% convinced that fields like Chinese medicine, for example, hold a lot of value. There's a lot of valuable information under the general rubric of "spirituality" that a hardcore materialist would never give a sniff at. But you have to sort through a lot of misinformation to find it. Critical thinking is needed for that imo.

My hometown is in Wiltshire, which is the same county that Stone Henge and Avebury are from, so I can definitely say I appreciate a big stone when I see one either way lol.

 

[Puffy]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

I think it's just different frames of reference really. You alone have experienced your own testimony that led to you converting to Christianity. You alone know your life, your struggles, and how Christianity has benefited you and serves you as an anchor. Hado hasn't experienced that, as I understand it he hasn't experienced anything that he feels couldn't be reduced to a naturalistic explanation.

I've had active kundalini, which has led me to doing energy healing as a side hustle for years, months drinking ayahuasca in a jungle and all sorts of crazy shit. So my frame of reference is different too in order to make sense of my life's experience.

I think in general people look for narratives that help them to make sense of their lives and provide a sense of stability. Getting people to change such paradigms can come with a lot of upheaval and so its slow and comes with a lot of resistance.

 

[Hadoblado]

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

If you want to respond to what I say, go ahead. If you want to speculate about me, go to the thread specifically designed for it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

It's safe to assume that mood and experience are very tied together.

Your locus of control and attitudes surrounding your emotional well-being in the present and near future, I think go a long way.

So it begs the question if you are being disrupted due to irregular emotional processing.

The other side of the story is that sometimes things happen objectively, for which we have no natural answer.

That statement means a lot of things. It is different to say that we have no answers, vs it is impossible to have an answer.

Events happen. These "super-events" or events with supernatural intervention, is matter reacting with itself.

"Matter" of course being a over simplification, we don't even fully comprehend in itself. The periodic table is a wild thing.

I've experienced things like this. Here are two examples of healings that defy naturalist explanations. I encourage you to come up with a naturalistic explanation. So far, I have not come up with a plausible naturalistic explanation, but I have tried to come up with one. In short, what do you do when there is no ethereal experience that goes along with the miracle? What if the emotion you experience when witnessing the miracle is surprise? What if you are not expecting it, and it happens anyway? That is not going to be something that correlates with the brain playing a trick on you.

Like you were standing a little too much to the left and avoided a flying tire from decapitating you?

If something happens that supercedes the things you anticipated your entire life, you are definitely going to have a pretty ELEVATED experience.

It would be like drinking acid and Molly's without realizing it and then having sex and smoking a joint and asking yourself what you did to deserve such an experience.

The human brain is not a precise machine made engine. It's a work of art, and an engineering marvel.

But the trade off being able to adapt to our crazy environment, mother nature, has left its mark on us.

That's just how I feel though, I don't need you telling me how I feel is wrong. You just made the thread so I just wanted to interject with that perspective.

I'll tell you and @Hadoblado the same thing I told @Cognisant, which is that you guys have faith in naturalism.

Someone I know who has a PhD in chemical biology and was raised in a three generational atheist home and who became a Christian late in life said that sometimes things get demystified, and we think what used to be supernatural is not natural. But here's the thing... He will also say that the opposite is true, that some things we used to think we had a natural explanation for, but we now don't know anything about.

Therefore, it may "make sense" to you that there is always a naturalistic explanation for things, but that is because you have an orientation against the supernatural.

"Faith" in naturalism basically implies that we are chained to a certain belief.

YOUR faith requires a subscription to certain ideas. What I would call ancient memes.
Naturalists, rather materialists don't have that. You are equivocating or conflating two different approaches to cosmology.

Sure you can say that a materialists can't defend their position, but there's such a thing as a bad Christian don't you think? It doesn't make sense to point at someone who is not representative of a certain belief. Most people are just bandwagon jumpers.

A good materialist, (and anyone with genuine curiosity) at their core give their respect to a methodology. An act of investigation.

That is where we place our faith, because we have observed that such methodology worked in the past.

You want to poke holes in that and say that it is practically the same. Sure? You observed something. But the scale at which other people observed scientific things is much greater.

Miracles happen. But I doubt they happen to people who are waiting to die for some arbitrary cause. You have all the agency in the world to see that as special, and you don't have to be bad about other people denying it.

I have witnessed strange things that reach absurdity beyond what the sane mind can explain to another person. I save my words for what I'm sure of, and I think about that other shit until I have something that is useful to say about it.

Perfect only exists in the mind. Draw a perfect circle rn... You'll get better over time, but it's just disappointing if you don't have the right expectations. No shit.

 

[sushi]

i think magic element in universe that responds to you when yo try something

like the law of attraction.

 

[scorpiomover]

I just have one question for proponents of the supernatural. Why is it that all these incidences happen in complete isolation? They cannot be captured via cameras and nobody even tries to capture them? Why do they bend the laws of physics only in the absence of an audience and why does it occur in a way that does not punch a hole in the fabric of reality? If cameras and eyes are almost the same, why cannot cameras witness the same phenomenon?

I can think of 2 answers:

1) Quantum behaviour:

When a quantum decision isn't measured, or is measured but in a way that it's interim results are unknown, then the consequences display as if all the possible solutions all happen simultaneously, causing an interference pattern.

When the decision is measured in a way that it's results are known, then the consequences display as if only the measured solution happened, causing a blob pattern.

Take Schrodinger's cat.

Before you have a picture of the cat, the world looks as if the cat could be dead or alive. But once you have a picture of the cat being alive, the world looks as if the cat could only have been alive.

2) The definition of "nature":

The general view of people who don't believe in the supernatural, is that if something isn't natural, then it doesn't exist. If it is proved to exist beyond doubt, then the definition of what is "natural" is altered to include the unnatural/supernatural behaviour.

So if at some point, scientists prove that prayer does work, then prayer would be considered "natural".

If cancers can indeed be cured by prayers then it throws the entirety of biology into question.

Not really. It simply posits that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and more than one way to cure cancer.

Nobody in the current era has tried to jump off buildings and flap their arms in the name of the lord or try doing tightrope on a thread.

Considering that there's 8,000,000,000 people on the Earth right now, who could do such a test at any of the 24 hours of the day, on any of the 365 days a year, in any year in the last 10 years, it's very likely that someone had tried it.

Why do believers shy away from testing miracles in front of everybody where there is little room for bias?

They don't. But at the end of the day, most people who don't believe in the supernatural tend to be extremely sceptical, and highly critical. Even were you to persuade one, what exactly do you think would happen? That he gives you a billion dollars? Even if you manage to convince him, within 1 minute, 2 more people will be born who would become atheists. You're fighting a losing proposition.

 

[sushi]

i think telekinetics is possible but only at a very weak quantum level

its not provable by science.