My mum is dieing, i'd like some advices from other INTPs

[DIALECTIC]

Hello !

My mum is 68 and is dieing of cancer (its the 5th time in 8 years but this time it is terminal), im her only child and she will also leaver behind my dad and her own 87years old mother. The way she is right now (shes currently at the hospital), she could be gone within weeks, im not sure. Death is one thing, the worst is to see her suffering pointlessly, also im the only one to know yet, doctor told me (but i had sussed it out) but hasnt told my dad: hes an INFP and lives in denial (that will kill him, im worried he might even kill himself or go crazy), and my grandma (her mother) is an ESFJ so shes already being hysteric so i fear the worst when shes told the news...

Anyway, i'd like some advices (do's and dont do's) from other INTPs who went thru the same experince i am about to go thru...

Thanks very much for your time and help.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm sorry.

How are you feeling about it? The first thing to do is get yourself centered, then you will be in a position of being stable for others. Also, how is your mum feeling about it? I'd resolve whatever I have with her first, since she won't be around long. Once she's gone, you won't be able to say anything else to each other, so ... get that squared away.

Then you have everyone else to think about. So your mom has no brothers or sisters? Just the people you mentioned?

It's hard to give advice based solely on type, especially with people from a different generation. everyone does have to grieve in their own way, and sometimes they might just flip out; there's not much you can do to make someone remain calm and not flip out, and some people NEED to extrovert their emotion to work through it. If you can encourage them to think about your mom and resolve anything with her before she goes, as you are, that would be a good start.

I think some of the hard work happens after the person is gone, there's an absence, and the adrenaline rush of dealing with the impending death has passed. That will likely be the hardest stage, once the initial shock of learning she's terminal has passed. At least while she lives, you can all focus on her and making her last days good ones. But after? the family structure is changed and you will be rebuilding.

I know you made a comment about your dad, but are either of them seriously in a place where they are likely to self-harm once they find out she's terminal? If so, you might have to involve some psych/med professionals to help them through things.

 

[ApostateAbe]

You need to tell your dad. Soon. He may go crazy or whatever, but what will happen when he finds out AFTER she is dead?

 

[Duxwing]

*hugs* Losing a parent sucks. If your father might kill himself, then commit him; if your grandmother hystericizes, then ignore her.

-Duxwing

 

[Cognisant]

Let the poodle hang himself I say.

I'm sorry for your impending loss but I've been watching over a suicidal family member and frankly I can't bring myself to care anymore, if your father wants to kill himself just let him, it'll save you much time/anguish and if it's what he wants who are you to stop him?

What sort of world do we live in when grown men need to be protected from their own hysterics?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

One important element of your world is about to disappear. The rest stays more or less the same.

Focus on this important element if this is your desire, spend time with your mother, set things straight, improve her final moments.

If your father, another important element, would happen to be gone because of your inaction, you have another choice, to protect him, or his freedom, either shelter him or make him deal with things in his own way.

It's your world and your choices, which will dwindle with time, with time you will have less and less people to speak to, less and less decisions to make and places to go to, it is an important moment not only to start dealing with loss, but also to get accustomed and a bit used to it.

 

[AngelOne]

I'm very sorry to hear that your mom is doing so poorly. I have some experience with people that I love dying (of cancer and other illnesses) and with suicidal family members and I know how painful and difficult this situation must be for you. As much as death is part of life, we're ill-equipped to deal with it in our modern society.

Have you spoken to your mom's doctors about how much time she has left? If she's close to dying, they'll know and they'll be able to give you some idea how long she has. Even though she's in hospital, she might still have months left to live - it depends on: why she's there; which, if any, anticancer treatments she has received; whether they're going to try new treatments; and how healthy her organs and immune system are.

Once you have confirmed that time is short, your dad and grandmother deserve to be told about your mom's condition and prognosis. If you are concerned that your dad might try to kill himself or might go crazy, speak with a therapist (the hospital probably has one, especially if it's a cancer hospital) first to discuss this; then ask the therapist to be present when your dad is told. Your dad's mental illness is no reason - and you have no right - to withhold this information from him. You can't decide not to tell him because he's fragile. What you can do is make sure that support is available for him.

Please also make sure to take time for yourself during all of this; death and dying are very draining and it's easy to become exhausted. Take care of yourself, spend time with your mom, and make sure support is available for you as well as for your dad.

 

[EditorOne]

Most places there's social service functions available, private or public; hospice isn't just final physical care, it can extend to counseling for grieving family members and counseling can start before death.

I think the overlooked element in all this is what your Mom wants to do in terms of both "palliative measures only" and telling everyone. (Presumably the doctor has told her the time is short?) Perhaps you should talk to her about that? You will at least be back in "information" mode and the burden of working this all out will go better if you don't take it all on yourself.

I just went through this with my mother-in-law, a lovely woman who maintained her grace and composure through it all. I will say that, but I will note that in the last two or three weeks of her life, prescribed opiates helped her focus on her dignity even as her awareness faded. Since she's been dealing with this for five years, openly, and everyone in the family knew there was not really any long-term hope of beating it, death was not attended by anything but normal grief, no drama. If the people around your Mom have been truly deceiving themselves about the outcome, your road may be a little rockier. Do what you can.

 

[EditorOne]

Also, watch your own reactions because other people's personalities will really try your soul; it's a function of the emotions you're riding. You might very well not wail or shout, but you'll find yourself extremely impatient with the shadow side of everyone else's personality, which tends to come out in the stress of grief. That will be your emotions finding an INTP-type reaction, annoyance, except it may be on steroids.

 

[John_Mann]

Try not make a taboo about her death. Ask her if she feels she's going to die. I think it's more important what she have to talk rather than you have. If she accepts her coming death tell her that she are going to experience something that influenced almost every truth seeker in history. She will receive a personal answer for the most mysterious question in life. And assure her that you and your family will miss her but you will be alright.

I like very much a quote from Wittgenstein:

“Death is not an event in life: we do not live to experience death. If we take eternity to mean not infinite temporal duration but timelessness, then eternal life belongs to those who live in the present. Our life has no end in the way in which our visual field has no limits.”

IMO there's two basics fates after death: complete annihilation/oblivion or just a slight change in perception as we slip to another almost identical reality (quantum suicide or subjective immortality). I don't accept any elaborated explanation (religious explanations in general) for the subjective experience of death.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPhnOKmhbBw

 

[Vrecknidj]

I'm terribly sorry for what you're going through. My own father died suddenly when he was 56, and my mother just passed a few weeks ago at 70 (esophageal cancer which ravaged her body terribly).

Here are a few thoughts.

1) Be maximally compassionate to everyone (yourself, your father, your grandmother, your mother, their caretakers, etc.). Don't forget about being compassionate to yourself.

2) Give yourself opportunities to be alone, and, while alone, don't distract yourself with diversions. The unimpeded downtime is good for the psyche.

3) Get adequate sleep. Eat healthy food. Take a few walks, in fresh air if possible (unless you're already a regular exerciser, then you've got this covered). It's surprising how much of an impact taking care of the body can be in times like this.

Everything else takes care of itself. Part of being compassionate includes neither indulging in nor ignoring other's concerns or beliefs. If, for instance, some friend or relative of your mother feels a need to talk a lot about "being in a better place soon" or something like that, then, whether or not those views correspond to any of yours, a compassionate approach to that person will both keep the other person at ease and, ultimately, keep you from being drawn into irrelevant argument or worse.

 

[EditorOne]

I found an article quoting a former co-worker on the value of music for some folks in your Mom's situation.

http://musicandmemory.org/2014/04/29/when-end-of-life-nears-music-renews-joy/

 

[Variform]

Hello !

My mum is 68 and is dieing of cancer (its the 5th time in 8 years but this time it is terminal), im her only child and she will also leaver behind my dad and her own 87years old mother. The way she is right now (shes currently at the hospital), she could be gone within weeks, im not sure. Death is one thing, the worst is to see her suffering pointlessly, also im the only one to know yet, doctor told me (but i had sussed it out) but hasnt told my dad: hes an INFP and lives in denial (that will kill him, im worried he might even kill himself or go crazy), and my grandma (her mother) is an ESFJ so shes already being hysteric so i fear the worst when shes told the news...

Anyway, i'd like some advices (do's and dont do's) from other INTPs who went thru the same experince i am about to go thru...

Thanks very much for your time and help.

I am sorry for this episode in your life. I went through it when I was 18 and my father died in a hospital bed in our home, rather high on morphine.

Are you worried about pain? Talk to your doctors about it. There is this taboo in the medical field about pain relief. Some countries are doing better than others. The general notion is, don't overdo it and so it is underdone.

You need to prepare yourself for euthanasia. This unfortunately depends on law. Which should have no bearing on it. Who's call is it? Not married anymore, then next of kin.

Tell your father. He needs and deserves processing time. I would not worry about how he reacts, it is his right to react as he wishes, free choice, self-determination, you cannot protect him 'for his own good'. That is the first step on the road to oppression.

If he by nature is prone to such strong emotions, then that is natural to him. To dyke that in is to ask an INTP to join a social club :-) Let that energy flow, that is libido then. Same goes for the old lady there.

Do:

- share information, be open, give details about prognosis, what docs say.
- do communicate feelings
- ask for help when you need to arrange for stuff
- be prepared if she has any special needs or desires (My dad wanted to do a boat ride on a lake. )
- share with her what you feel
- talk about pain relief and how much of it and what she feels about euthanasia when even pain medication is pointless
- talk to docs about medication
- find leaflets around the oncology ward with info on support groups for those who lost loved ones to the disease
- go to group meetings if you feel the need you cannot share some things with family or friends.
- talk to friends about it. (I did, as we went for walks, it really helps.)

Don't:

- isolate yourself
- hold back emotions
- 'protect' her from your feelings
- force believes on her, but listen to hers
- shut her out of decisions that need to be made
- give up on healing
- deny alternative medicine to alleviate symptoms because you think it is all nonsense

If me and my ex would have given up or in she would be dead now. Without breasts.

That is just some things I can tell you. Dying is not so bad. When surrounded by your loved ones.

In the West we have this idea that life needs to be as long as possible, extended beyond the broken body and wring the last damned drop out of it, even if it is painful to endure. Be prepared to let her go. It is a transition. You might see her again, you might not. But in the end, even though as people we screw up and fuck around, she loved you, she did her best and through you she remains, her genes, she gave you life and consciousness.

This is the deal nature cut us. Good luck buddy.

 

[Cleopatra Selene II]

My mom died a few months ago so I guess I kind of went through the same thing.

She died young and suddenly from a genetic heart condition. My brother was only fourteen and I was sixteen.

I guess my advice would be to spend as much time with her as you can and to ask as many questions as you can. There are so many things my mom did and so many aspects of her life that I never got to ask her about. My mom's parents are dead as well so I cannot ask any of them about her.

Make sure you tell her you love her and that she understands that. I never really had time to make sure my mom knew I loved her because she died suddenly.

Make sure you keep a good relationship with her or repair damages to one. This is something I am struggling with right now because I did not have the greatest relationship with my mom. She hurt me deeply emotionally and I pretended to be ok. She never saw the real me because I pretended to be someone else and I guess I feel guilty because she never knew the real me.

Everyone takes things a different way. When we informed my aunt that my mom died, she hung up on us. I did not cry at either of her two funerals and I have blocked the whole event out. My brother has fits of anger. My dad cries. One lady kept repeating "HOLY SHIT" over and over when she found out.

This may be a dark piece of advice but it is one to think about. Make sure you find out where family heirlooms are if you do not know already. I have no clue where my mom hid my grandmother's wedding ring or where she put some really old photos.

I hate to give this piece of advice but make sure you know where your mom's wedding ring or jewelry is right after she dies because there are hospital workers out there who will steal it off of a dead body and sell it for drug money. I had to deal with a situation like this and my mom's friend had her mom's wedding ring pawned and they never found it.