Music analysing and my pathetic artistic sense

[Adamastor]

I feel that I've never been close to art in general. And now I find it quite disturbing since whenever I try to discern patterns in music and similar things I see how complex they are, how difficult/fun it is

Last sunday I went to a small performance of some baroque music (A few of Hannel's arias, wikipedia *cough, and Bach no idea what ) and was quite bothered because when listening to a few connected pieces I couldn't draw a satisfactory mental image (probably because of my pathetic and unused creative sense), needless to say I had problem discerning each music from the other a few hours later.

As you can see my musical sense is pitiable (being optimistic) and I would like to do something to exercise, improve it. Somethings I supose will help:
- sigh-seeing, even without understanding, more paintings which will contribute do my imagination, my mental drawing ability
- I'd like to do learn how to play violin or piano, but I think, for now it is out of question

Any ideas? I'd appreciate if you guys could, for example, describe the way you analyse a music, thus telling how you feel when listening to X type of sound and not when listening to the Y type of sound...

 

[Ermine]

That's mainly why I love art, music, and literature so much, due to its complexity and patterns.

And don't feel bad. I've taken a formal Music Theory course in high school (mostly centered around Baroque music) and I have played guitar and piano for several years and I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around most classical music, especially Baroque and Romantic. I have a hard time analyzing and telling pieces apart except on a superficial level. It also doesn't help the the song names for much of classical music is very easy to forget. It seems it's all Sonata no. 9, aria no. 2, symphony no.13, etc. The numbers mean nothing to me so it doesn't stick out in my mind.

For improving your music analysis skills, it helps to listen to lots of different music in different ways. For example, I sometimes practice listening to any given song with my right brain (how I feel as I listen and what I see in my mind's eye), and my left brain (the scales used, chord progressions, keys, etc). It also helps my analysis to tap my foot and wave my fingers around like a conductor, or otherwise get your body in sync with the music. Then the changes that occur are much more obvious, especially the rhythm and time signature.

It also really helps to pick up an instrument. My appreciation of music has deepened immensely after I started taking guitar and piano seriously. It also give the knowledge you need to try looking into music theory, as it's very hard to explain if you don't play an instrument.

 

[juturna]

Just like Ermine said it would really help if you learn to play an instrument. I would suggest the piano just because you can visually see the whole chromatic scale in front of you in a very intuitive layout. I took a very rudimentary music theory class but it really helped my understanding and appreciation of complex and layered music.
If I can suggest some music my favorite era is the romantic period. My favorite composers are Chopin, Rachmaninoff, and Liszt. You can hear the composers raw emotions through the music and it's almost like poetry. I'm listening right now to "La Campanella" by Liszt and you can really hear the layers in the music. There is a main theme that is recurring but it is repeated in different variations that culminates in a powerful ending. Another of my favorites is Chopin's "Tristesse" which I'm pretty sure is on youtube as well as the campanella and it is simply enough to stir the deepest emotions in me.

 

[zxc]

Best thing I can suggest is trying a lot of very different music. Seriously, try getting a list of genres, and listening to some typical songs from each. That way you can find new things, and broaden your understanding of music as a whole. Plus, it's pretty fun. Music's supposed to be fun (or, you should be able to gain 'something' from it). If at any point you're disliking what you're hearing... just turn it off or change it to something else. Don't try to make yourself like something that you obviously don't; we each like different things in music. Some things are indeed acquired tastes though...

As said above, picking up an instrument could be a cool idea. It didn't really work for me in that way though. I started taking piano lessons before I truly loved music, and piano then became a chore and not something I did for fun. When I was a bit older, I found music that I really loved, and an obsession in music began. This was when I returned to my home keyboard, and playing became a lot of fun, and a great creative outlet. Throughout the few years that I was taking piano lessons, I could never (and never even wanted to try) to play my own music. Now, I solely play my own music, or I try to work out my favourite songs' melodies by ear, and let me tell you, my playing sounds much better now than it ever did when I was taking lessons. Yet I can barely read sheet music!

If you find that you like to play sheet music, do so! Have a ball! But if you get frustrated and annoyed with sheet music, like I did (and still do), then play by ear (granted that you can listen to the music). Playing by ear is a lot of fun, and tricky, especially at first, but you'll learn much more that way.

Wow, one of my longest posts. I won't read over what I said above, as I'll just end up deleting the post like every other one of my long posts that have never made it onto the forum. Hope it helps.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

i don't understand why anyone would listen to music just to dissect patterns and chord progressions why?! you listen to a Beautiful and Evocative or a Brutal and Unhinged song and they amaze you - why the hell do you need to understand them?! to me it is not creative at all. maybe i am just stupid but surely creativity in any shape should be spontaneous and intrinsic to the composer/artist, general concepts are useless. art is about expression and emotion, and also interpretation - make your own mind up rather than referring to your scale and musical pattern book. but if you are going to structure, do whatever the hell pops up first. not a "C Lydian Scale and A# G B chord progression" - just do it like a child would "this bit and this bit melded to one followed by deviations and musical quotes from sesame street" sooooooooo much more fun

be creative-be a child, if you create like a child with an adults intellect and skill you should create an original work of art - naivety is a wonderful thing, use it.

god, my views are so F

 

[Adamastor]

Dissect patterns and chord progressions (not yet, since I have no idea what it is) seems so much fun. In the I am amazed by a simple, concise, or difficult yet beautiful math proof, deduction I think It is natural to be amazed whenever looking at a music paper sheet and actually feeling what is wrote, which is a plus besides the euphoria of solving a puzzle or something...

Another reason, as stated above is simple because I feel my creative side is seriously lacking and I am meaning to do somehting about it.

Thanks Ermine.

That's exactly how I feel right now, especially about these numbers, they mean nothing to me lol. I too try listening to the same music in different ways and I confess I enjoy the peculiar feeling of doing it. Feeling, how funny that is probably what intrigues me most about music...

Thanks juturna and zxc for your suggestions. Actually, I had been kind of comparing (mostly classical, baroque and a romantic) and trying to identive the obvious differences about them and later the similirarites about them (no progress so far =x, thought an aria written by bach is certainly different than a Wagner's overture...). As I told before, I intend to learn how to play an instrument (though, now that I think about it, my will is tottery).

 

[Waterstiller]

you listen to a Beautiful and Evocative or a Brutal and Unhinged song and they amaze you - why the hell do you need to understand them?! to me it is not creative at all. maybe i am just stupid but surely creativity in any shape should be spontaneous and intrinsic to the composer/artist, general concepts are useless. art is about expression and emotion, and also interpretation - make your own mind up rather than referring to your scale and musical pattern book. but if you are going to structure, do whatever the hell pops up first. not a "C Lydian Scale and A# G B chord progression" - just do it like a child would "this bit and this bit melded to one followed by deviations and musical quotes from sesame street" sooooooooo much more fun

be creative-be a child, if you create like a child with an adults intellect and skill you should create an original work of art - naivety is a wonderful thing, use it.

Amen to this entire post.

Also, I can't listen around or show my own music to a J without them making me feel inadequate. Their entire musical consciousness is different from my own. And it has taken me a long time to not feel guilty over not caring about technical details. I feel music. It's one of the only things I do feel.

I've taken music theory classes in college, aced them without problems.. but there was absolutely no relation to my own creative process. So I more or less abandoned it.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

Amen to this entire post.

Also, I can't listen around or show my own music to a J without them making me feel inadequate. Their entire musical consciousness is different from my own. And it has taken me a long time to not feel guilty over not caring about technical details. I feel music. It's one of the only things I do feel.

I've taken music theory classes in college, aced them without problems.. but there was absolutely no relation to my own creative process. So I more or less abandoned it.

oh god, i can relate to that. not just J types, more extreme T types, or even just Cynical music fans.

 

[Jaico]

Adamastor, what you're doing is quite admirable - you're leaps and bounds ahead of people who aren't even trying. I've had extensive musical training (not to sound pompous), and I think the most enjoyment I ever get isn't from deconstructing a song entirely, or analyzing its chord structure. Instead, when I'm listening to music, I try and "fill in the phrases," as it were - try and complete how you think the next little part of a song will go, just in your head. It may not sound like it makes sense, but...uh...try singing along, and just sort of sing what you think will come next as the song goes on (I guess I'll call it 'active listening'?) And it doesn't matter if what you thought would happen doesn't happen - that's not what matters (in fact, it's probably more enjoyable if you're not right - heck, what I think comes next hardly ever comes, and that's why classical music is so great...reasons below).

I remember from a book I read (I believe it was "This is your Mind on Music," or something...maybe it was Brain instead of Mind?) that stated that we dislike music we either find too complex or too familiar. Thus, it's really the unexpectedness of music that gives us its enjoyment - we think, perhaps, one chord will be coming (and we might not know what that chord is, but we sure do know what we think it will sound like), but instead, a composer throws a completely different set of notes, and so throws off what one would expect - and so helps make the music more enjoyable.

I think learning how to play piano or violin is a great way to learn, but if that's not possible, try listening to music from a particular time period (i.e. Baroque Music, Romantic Music, and Classical Music) and just get a 'feel' for that type of music. That way, when you listen to it later on, you can listen and sing to yourself what you think will be coming next.

My favourite set of pieces from each era are:
Baroque: Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, a set of keyboard pieces that has quite a potential for 'active listening'.
Romantic: Chopin's Nocturnes, piano pieces that are meant to be representative of the night (regardless, they are beautiful and full of 'tricks' that Chopin uses).
Classical: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (sorry, I couldn't find a wiki page on his piano sonatas alone). They are highly, highly, complex, and very enjoyable to actively listen to (and fun to play!)

Sorry if this isn't at all clear, I'm afraid I can't explain this concept very well...as you can tell by my rambling post . I really think 'active listening' is a good way to enjoy classical music a lot. If you can learn how to read music, then you can look at the music, identify areas where the composer is...leading on (sorry, it's quite hard to describe) the listener, and then listen to those parts yourself on the recording. All in all, though, it's definitely something worthwhile...hope this helps, and good luck!

 

[Adamastor]

Thanks a lot. Believe me you gave shape to what I was kinda of expecting...

Acquiring a background would, according to my point of view, help me filling the gaps(in my mind) of the music and as you said it is lots of fun...

In this baroque music "concert" I said I've listened, they played a few (5,7) different pieces , though there were 3 different composers... And the gap of a music to another was of a minute or two and after the concert, I kinda of remembered of what I've had listened, bits of different musics that repeated over and over in my mind till they disapeared.

I believe that that was the portion most 'significant' to me and in fact what annoyed/bothered me was the feeling: "Wow... After about 30-40 minutes of music, less than 2 minutes were significant and probably, not exactly of what I heard, probably I took a bit of this piece and a bit of another and mended it together, building a rough and pure kind of music that describes, relates to myself now" - From this point onwards, I decided to "mature" and, who knows, maybe that my rough music will too mature a bit, perhaps after listening to 40 minutes of music I could listen to 5 minutes of my own music...

EDIT: Oh yeah... Thanks to describing your enjoyment for classical music

I think learning how to play piano or violin is a great way to learn, but if that's not possible, try listening to music from a particular time period (i.e. Baroque Music, Romantic Music, and Classical Music) and just get a 'feel' for that type of music. That way, when you listen to it later on, you can listen and sing to yourself what you think will be coming next.

My favourite set of pieces from each era are:
Baroque: Bach's Well-Tempered Clavier, a set of keyboard pieces that has quite a potential for 'active listening'.
Romantic: Chopin's Nocturnes, piano pieces that are meant to be representative of the night (regardless, they are beautiful and full of 'tricks' that Chopin uses).
Classical: Beethoven's Piano Sonatas (sorry, I couldn't find a wiki page on his piano sonatas alone). They are highly, highly, complex, and very enjoyable to actively listen to (and fun to play!)

I really like the way you see it, I feel I (could) relate to it.

 

[Invoke Ninja's True Power]

anyone enjoy the similarities between classical and death/speed metal?
I know very little about music theory, even less how to play but yet I know good/complex music when I hear it, kinda like I could probably be a producer or a studio engineer but I don't wanna go thru all the boring classes. I like metal, its dark, complex and cynical like me, don't get me wrong tho, I have a fairly diverse taste in music, gotta have nice mellow music sometimes

 

[Adamastor]

Never though about it. Thanks for posting, now I'll listen putting it in mind. Any suggestions, examples?

 

[Wisp]

My own artistic sense comes out in a habit of trying to develop ad-hoc harmonic vocal parts to songs as I listen. I get some pretty damn good results now, but I still have catastrophic failures sometimes, but I enjoy it, but occasionally I sound really good. I'd really like to improve my singing voice as well. I'm also learning guitar actively, and know a fair bit of cello, but am sort of letting it slide, atm.

 

[RubberDucky451]

When it comes to music i really love jazz, the rhythm, the feel and the unexpected chords being played.

For piano i would recommend Bill Evans. Then get a love supreme by John Coltrane, that's the 1 jazz album to have. Then if you want something more interesting try Bitches Brew by Miles Davis.