Murder

[Jchazard]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

 

[Solitaire U.]

I'd probably kill for far less justification, but I'm a child of War and Hatred...violence permeates my existence...tis all I was taught, tis all I can be.

 

[Jchazard]

I'd probably kill for far less justification, but I'm a child of War and Hatred...violence permeates my existence...tis all I was taught, tis all I can be.

But that's a person's life. Granted they have no respect for such things, but it's a person. Could you really be driven to do such a thing with the terror in their eyes, wishing nothing more than to live, while holding a gun against their head... even if they did such a horrible thing? Do two wrongs really make a right? Wouldn't you just be the same as them even though it was for a righteous reason?

 

[IssphitiKOzS]

As a determinist (who hasn't researched many philosophies), I feel that it was bound to happen. My hatred and desire to kill them is quenched by that, yet I understand it. I wouldn't waste my time on revenge, to be honest I'd probably waste my time brooding and thinking about it. I'd do something else really stupid, but nothing incriminating that I couldn't get away with.

 

[Anchorite]

No. I'd have them arrested and expect life imprisonment. Every one of us is capable of killing, it's how good we are at overcoming the animalistic passion that makes us superior to those who are so low.

 

[Claverhouse]

Yes.







Claverhouse

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

They could potentially be useful in learning how to prevent such occurrences in the future. Then there are the repercussions that would stem from the action to consider - personal or otherwise.

Once these are sorted, sure, go ahead. Like #2 said, it would take far less justification than that for the loss of life to be beneficial.

EXTERMINATE ALL THE BRUTES

 

[crippli]

Not sure what murder would solve or what I would learn. Maybe lock up to do experiments on instead. Murder is too final.

 

[Cognisant]

There's 6-7 billion people on earth, not million, BILLION.
Billion = One Thousand Million.

A single life is trivial.

If there really was no other way I would kill each and every last one if it meant I survived, sorry, truly, it's just that I don't believe in an afterlife, so there is quite literally nothing worth dying for; hey don't blame me, blame the creator if you believe, I didn't set this game up, I didn't write the rules, I wish there was something worth dying for, but there isn't.

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Ah now that's different, the reason for killing murderer/rapist has nothing to do with survival, and just as little to do with morality or justice; no the reason I would hunt this person down and torture them until they would prefer to die, is because doing so will bring me satisfaction, in other words I’ll be doing it for its own sake, for the fun of it, after all a meaningless existence is for its own sake, so trying to enjoy it would simply be an affirmation of my nature as something capable of enjoying it.

The distinction between myself and a true sadist is that I wouldn't enjoy tormenting someone who hasn’t wronged me, I suppose I could be capable of enjoying it, but there's easier ways of acquiring satisfaction elsewhere, and I have no particular desire to become a sadist.

 

[Solitaire U.]

But that's a person's life. Granted they have no respect for such things, but it's a person. Could you really be driven to do such a thing with the terror in their eyes, wishing nothing more than to live, while holding a gun against their head... even if they did such a horrible thing? Do two wrongs really make a right? Wouldn't you just be the same as them even though it was for a righteous reason?

Running them over with my truck is actually what came to mind. If a gun was my only means I'd use it at a distance...no final words, no pleading. The only temple I can envision holding a gun to is my own, and I'd most likely do that directly after. I would not be in my right mind, you see. Murder my wife or kid, my life is over too. Systemic justice means nothing to me, except as an additional source of problems. I don't care what society demands of me...I'm already a violator in it's eyes and the eyes of the law it hides behind...why should I care?

All of the things you mentioned are invalid in their dependence upon my thinking twice at a moment when I wouldn't be thinking at all.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Like #2 said, it would take far less justification than that for the loss of life to be beneficial.

"I am not a number...I am a free man!"

 

[GYX_Kid]

i figure a certain portion of society would be out to do that anyway, and it's only because it's in my personal world that that grievous enemy has now entered

eh, you only live once. if i live to 90 i plan to OD on heroin and jump out of a plane (amazes me that no old folk with nothing left don't end it that way). i guess it'd depend at what point of our lives we were at, maybe i'd assess the likelihood of finding someone i could love at least as much, vs the raw animal [satisfaction?] of brutally eviscerating that enemy. they'd be executed or life imprisoned anyway. if i decided to murder them i'd go all the way with it, even if the idea of twisting a sharpened corkscrew into their jugular made me hesitant at first.

Ah now that's different, the reason for killing murderer/rapist has nothing to do with survival, and just as little to do with morality or justice; no the reason I would hunt this person down and torture them until they would prefer to die, is because doing so will bring me satisfaction, in other words I’ll be doing it for its own sake, for the fun of it, after all a meaningless existence is for its own sake, so trying to enjoy it would simply be an affirmation of my nature as something capable of enjoying it.

The distinction between myself and a true sadist is that I wouldn't enjoy tormenting someone who hasn’t wronged me, I suppose I could be capable of enjoying it, but there's easier ways of acquiring satisfaction elsewhere, and I have no particular desire to become a sadist.

 

[Jennywocky]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

I don't know.
It really depends on context and my frame of mind that day.

(I'd be likely to kick them until they were a mass of bruises, though... then feel guilt afterward.)

...Let's face it, I'm just not Lawful [Good].

 

[EditorOne]

" if i live to 90 i plan to OD on heroin and jump out of a plane (amazes me that no old folk with nothing left don't end it that way)"

Just an aside: By the time you get to 90 it probably won't be "old," so you'd better come up with a longer range plan....


Killing for revenge/retaliation comes from the emotions. With a strong emotional surge taking place even the other parts of your personality are suspect; you can think you are reasoning it out and concluding it is a good idea, but your reason is being ridden by your emotion at this point and steered toward emotion's goals. It leads to poor decision-making and execution, which is why we have a proverb that says "He who seeks revenge digs two graves."

It would be better to consider the concept of "appropriate revenge," which is conceivably far worse than murder. That's why there's another proverb that says "revenge is a dish best served cold." Anyway, appropriate revenge for a murder might be to deprive the murderer of something he/she cherishes, permanently, or for a rapist to be sent to Attica for a life sentence with a roommate named Bubba.

As for the murder/rapists life itself: Who cares? It exists at this point only as a vehicle for your ends. Other than that, good riddance. I personally would have a lot less trouble shooting a great many people I can think of than any dog in the world. Your mileage may vary.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

What if the person I loved the most was the murderer/rapist?

 

[Solitaire U.]

What if the person I loved the most was the murderer/rapist?

Then it stands to reason you'd be in love with murder and rape...

 

[GYX_Kid]

Killing for revenge/retaliation comes from the emotions. With a strong emotional surge taking place even the other parts of your personality are suspect; you can think you are reasoning it out and concluding it is a good idea, but your reason is being ridden by your emotion at this point and steered toward emotion's goals. It leads to poor decision-making and execution, which is why we have a proverb that says "He who seeks revenge digs two graves."

It would be better to consider the concept of "appropriate revenge," which is conceivably far worse than murder. That's why there's another proverb that says "revenge is a dish best served cold." Anyway, appropriate revenge for a murder might be to deprive the murderer of something he/she cherishes, permanently, or for a rapist to be sent to Attica for a life sentence with a roommate named Bubba.

As for the murder/rapists life itself: Who cares? It exists at this point only as a vehicle for your ends. Other than that, good riddance. I personally would have a lot less trouble shooting a great many people I can think of than any dog in the world. Your mileage may vary.

you can use sadism in effect (cold and appropriate revenge), but it seems like a more direct primal contact would have more roots down to a feeling of satisfaction. basically it's whether or not you think it's worth it to masturbate your emotions generated from the event of violation. i assume you'd want to erase/conquer the emotions since bathing in them would make life in general turn out wildly uncontrollable, and there'd probably be something in life worth living for afterwards.

what if someone raped and killed your family, and you were 90% sure the world was going to be destroyed by a black hole in a year, and they happened to be wandering around your living room?
i guess everyone has their own positivity/sanity threshold before deciding to press the 'fuck it' button. "don't give in to emotion until it's backed you into a corner and is the only thing left with any meaning"?
i wouldn't lose it easily, but rather potentially "choose" to lose it.

 

[Stigmata]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Not that I would hesitate to kill someone if I felt I had enough justification, but in this particular scenario, what would that accomplish? Vengeance isn't going to rectify the issue as I'll still be in the same situation whether I take action into my own hands or not.

 

[Mush]

" if i live to 90 i plan to OD on heroin and jump out of a plane (amazes me that no old folk with nothing left don't end it that way)"

That's how I planned to die if I live to that age too,except for the plane part,I was going to try all the addicting stuff just to know what it's like to be in those different states of consciousness before I go,then if I happen(most likely would) to develop a problem it will be at the end of my life. I don't think I could try hard core drugs at the beginning or even mid life because I would be so afraid I would end up like this guy -> for the remainder of my life. But at the end I can't think of a reason not to.

 

[snafupants]

But that's a person's life. Granted they have no respect for such things, but it's a person. Could you really be driven to do such a thing with the terror in their eyes, wishing nothing more than to live, while holding a gun against their head... even if they did such a horrible thing? Do two wrongs really make a right? Wouldn't you just be the same as them even though it was for a righteous reason?

More like eighty nine wrongs because they could go on to rape that many more people, not to mention the tiny fraction of women they may impregnate. Essentially their lives are less valuable and it would be undesirable for their genes to pass on to pathological/random offspring. So, yes.

 

[BigApplePi]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Picture this: The live person you loved (love) goes through your mind is now dead. Someone caused this and you want to remove the cause as if that would bring them back. You wish to use any means you can to remove the cause of this image. By punishing the perpetrator you remove the cause ... but it is too late. You do not realize this as your loved one is still alive in your mind.

Anyone ever seen the film, "Seven"? Seven refers to the seven deadly sins, one of which is wrath. See this film and you will see a perfect playout of the theme of this thread. It is devastating.

 

[BigApplePi]

Sweet revenge is temporary. A problem with me killing that person or directly inflicting severe pain on them is after it's over I would be the prime suspect. Then whatever caused them to behave badly would give them further satisfaction or if they were dead, further their cause. This is exactly what happened in the film "Seven."

There is a saying, "Don't get mad, get even." That means don't use their methods. Use something else. Get society on your side. Admittedly this is an uncertain risk and they could win out. But that would be another tragedy. The damage to your loved ones is tragedy enough.

 

[Zeldon]

Sweet revenge is temporary. A problem with me killing that person or directly inflicting severe pain on them is after it's over I would be the prime suspect. Then whatever caused them to behave badly would give them further satisfaction or if they were dead, further their cause. This is exactly what happened in the film "Seven."

There is a saying, "Don't get mad, get even." That means don't use their methods. Use something else. Get society on your side. Admittedly this is an uncertain risk and they could win out. But that would be another tragedy. The damage to your loved ones is tragedy enough.

Yeah... Hate the crime not the criminal. Whats the point of getting revenge, when all your going to do is suffer for it later. I love my life too much to just throw it away like that. There isn't any guarantee of some better afterlife, so unless a person is positive that there life isn't going anywhere, and this would be limiting there success on something material, I couldn't imagine the sense in throwing ones life away. I would rather be content with my current circumstances, then try to take action to change them. I do not want to subject myself to the mercy of the physical world, because I know that there isn't any.

 

[onthewindowstand]

I would torture them to death. I would lock them in a room and completely remove all sensory input; after they were insane I would place a weapon there until they decided to kill themselves. Otherwise they would just waste away with a meal a day and some water.

If I got impatient I might employ other methods of torture.

For rapists, murderers, child abusers, and really anyone who tramples justice without care I dont want anything less for them. With that being said I wouldnt be willing to do any of this if it were not personal I would just wish it to be so.

 

[Zeldon]

Doesn't seem worth it to me. I would probably just be mad at myself if I was victimized by one of these types. Life is too short to be holding grudges...

 

[crippli]

If you get away with it, the person who loved this person the most will come kill you.

In the rape case. Why don't you rape the person back instead?

Killing is so easy. No challenge.

 

[Zeldon]

If you get away with it, the person who loved this person the most will come kill you.

In the rape case. Why don't you rape the person back instead?

Killing is so easy. No challenge.

The easy way isn't always the best one. I would rather be content with myself first, then worry about others. Humans are flawed anyways. I see little point in just satisfying my physical desires. There is much more to life then just that... All I care about is creating a life where I can be at peace with myself. I would rather not have to worry about criminals. If something bad happens to my family, I will just create another one. To hell with it...

 

[crippli]

Are you sure? There are very few people who are able to just walk away if they loose something that is part of themselves, and who you have given yourself over to completely. There will be an emotional reaction you may or may not have experienced before. Could be anger, despair. That you kill them, or you kill yourself or something else emotionally irrational. I suspect most everyone is vulnerable if the right trigger is pushed.

 

[Zeldon]

Are you sure? There are very few people who are able to just walk away if they loose something that is part of themselves, and who you have given yourself over to completely. There will be an emotional reaction you may or may not have experienced before. Could be anger, despair. That you kill them, or you kill yourself or something else emotionally irrational. I suspect most everyone is vulnerable if the right trigger is pushed.

Its simply not worth it. I have experienced enough despair for a lifetime. I would just let it go, and focus on making my life better. My humanity is simply an obstacle. I do not want to embrace my flawed nature. I want to show that no matter what happens, I will not bend to outside disturbances. I will hold no grudges, and forgive everything, for if things were supposed to be right, they would have been right in the beginning.

 

[EvilScientist Trainee]

Wow, that was the coldest answer I've ever heard, Zeldon.

I know that excessive mourning is a harmful thing, but I would at least make the son of a gun that destroyed my life pay for what they done. I'd make them feel the same pain that they've promoted to myself.

I'm against aggressivity when it's ego focused, but in the case mentioned by the OP, that's the very least I could do before burying my loved ones with dignity.

 

[Zeldon]

Wow, that was the coldest answer I've ever heard, Zeldon.

I know that excessive mourning is a harmful thing, but I would at least make the son of a gun that destroyed my life pay for what they done. I'd make them feel the same pain that they've promoted to myself.

I'm against aggressivity when it's ego focused, but in the case mentioned by the OP, that's the very least I could do before burying my loved ones with dignity.

What goes around comes around. I take revenge, and I will only suffer for it later.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Then you fail to live up to your own rhetorical beliefs. 'Nothing' is never justified when 'something' is possible.

Not coldness...Fear...great fear.

 

[Solitaire U.]

I would torture them to death. I would lock them in a room and completely remove all sensory input; after they were insane I would place a weapon there until they decided to kill themselves. Otherwise they would just waste away with a meal a day and some water.

If I got impatient I might employ other methods of torture.

For rapists, murderers, child abusers, and really anyone who tramples justice without care I dont want anything less for them. With that being said I wouldnt be willing to do any of this if it were not personal I would just wish it to be so.

Though in an era where savagery of this sort is considered politically correct, you, Zeldon, can hardly be faulted.

This is why I tell my children..."Morality is corrupt...those who would teach or lead you for profit are never to be trusted."

 

[BigApplePi]

I would torture them to death. I would lock them in a room and completely remove all sensory input; after they were insane I would place a weapon there until they decided to kill themselves. Otherwise they would just waste away with a meal a day and some water.

If I got impatient I might employ other methods of torture.

For rapists, murderers, child abusers, and really anyone who tramples justice without care I dont want anything less for them. With that being said I wouldnt be willing to do any of this if it were not personal I would just wish it to be so.

Could this be what happens when bad things happen to us? They do happen to us and when we find we can't control it, we don't like it. So the first chance we get to take control and do what we want, we use it. It's like for the first time having fun taking over someone else's life and playing with it. They deserve no mercy because when it happened to me I got no mercy. Standardization.

This is why other people have to take charge. Other people who see what leads to what. Society will destroy itself if you let it go. Someone has to think ahead and say, "You can't do this."

 

[Solitaire U.]

No...this is a careless presumption encouraging people not to think for themselves. "You can't do this..." is like victim fertilizer. People who 'Stay at home behind locked doors so the boogieman doesn't get them...' quickly come to perceive the boogieman in everyone.

Such people are a danger to themselves and others.

This entire idea...shame!

 

[Zeldon]

No...this is a careless presumption encouraging people not to think for themselves. "You can't do this..." is like victim fertilizer. People who 'Stay at home behind locked doors so the boogieman doesn't get them...' quickly come to perceive the boogieman in everyone.

Such people are a danger to themselves and others.

This entire idea...shame!

Yeah... I have always been the more defensive type.

 

[Oblivious]

It all comes down to the murder weapon.

My weapon of choice would be the Law.

 

[Solitaire U.]

It all comes down to the murder weapon.

My weapon of choice would be the Law.

But it's so messy...

 

[Stoic Beverage]

I don't know me very well, so it could be one of two options.

1.) I more or less shrug and get over it.
2.) Forcibly shove (can one gently shove?) large quantities of arsenic down his/her throat.

Depends on whether or not I had breakfast that morning.

 

[5k17]

The person I love (in the wider sense of the word) most is myself. I suppose I'd have difficulties killing someone doing one or more of the things mentioned to me, or to anyone else. Even though reason tells me that their - and everyone else's - life is worthless, mercy and indifference would keep me from doing it. Except if I acted impulsively, but then I'd lack a weapon.

 

[crippli]

Its simply not worth it. I have experienced enough despair for a lifetime. I would just let it go, and focus on making my life better. My humanity is simply an obstacle. I do not want to embrace my flawed nature. I want to show that no matter what happens, I will not bend to outside disturbances. I will hold no grudges, and forgive everything, for if things were supposed to be right, they would have been right in the beginning.

What if they come after you next? If you're in the position to murder them, you're probably close.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

It all comes down to the murder weapon.

My weapon of choice would be the Law.

Justice never rocked so hard \m/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rVFi6qkPHE

 

[dark]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Would I kill them, eventually yes. I would hunt them down, I would torture them, I would find out why they did what they did. If anyone else was involved I would hunt them down until I found the last of them. Each of them would suffer, I would not stop until each and every person involved in some way suffered, if I found out they had become insane and caused such tragedies to others because of something as mundane as their mother, I would hunt her down if she was still alive and I would kill her also. If they had taken the job to do something as noble as trying to help their children, I would slaughter them also. I would not rest until all who did this act upon me paid my kind of justice.

I do not believe in morality, common justice, good or bad. That is all subject to change at any time so I don't waste thought on it. But with my current subjective view, all who threatened my happiness in a manner such as the OP has suggested, would be required to die.

I would also not care about the consequences, the law is the law, its logic is flawed, but it is part of the way we live. I would not allow myself to be caught, I would try to escape any law, but I would die fighting.

I guess I would have to have a condition to do such a thing, it would have to be for a person I would die for even before this has happened, if I would not have died for them, then I probably would not go to such an extent to make people suffer, just the one would suffice. Since I do not believe in an afterlife, I think a quick death would be enough, no need to allow them to experience life anymore, suffering would only give them more time in life, I would not allow that, a bullet to their head from a rifle quite a distance away would be good enough for me.

"I am not a number...I am a free man!"

Ah, hahaha.

 

[dark]

On another note, in psychology, it is not even possible to know if we are even capable of taking a life of another human being unless we have done it before. But if we are at a point to were human life has no meaning to us then yes we can know if we can take human life even if we haven't before.

I have never killed anyone, to my knowledge, I never again saw the boy I kicked in the head and crushed his nose in causing him to pass out while I was in kindergarten, I am sure someone would have told me if I killed him, but I still don't know.

I can think I would take revenge upon people because mostly I don't believe in the karma effect. But I can never be certain until I am actually placed in that position.

I do know I could indirectly kill someone, like setting up a device that would allow them to eventually die but not instantaneous while I was there. That I could do because I could look at it as a game of physics.

 

[hablahdoo]

I would not rest until all who did this act upon me paid my kind of justice.

Ah, I differ because don't have my own kind of justice. The first thing I do during a time of trauma is protect my mind and stop paying attention to the situation. In other words, I think too impractically do be a threat to anyone.

The only case that I can imagine myself killing someone is during a complete disassociative state where I'm making a game out of it. It wouldn't be due to any emotional reason whatsoever.

 

[socialexpat]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Depending who it is, how it was, which country it is and also if i have something to lose due to terminal illness or before i go myself.
If not blinded by anger like most unstable persons react.
I think so, yes.

Also, depending on what profession or place you are in it is always possible to do so.
E.g. in your own home .. Logically anyone would.

 

[aaaw]

No, not unless the act of killing them could prevent the crime from being committed.

 

[IzlaRoza]

Would you kill someone if they killed or drugged up and raped the person you loved most?

Naah, i would want to but i would think that would be letting them off too easily. If the weren't going to get locked up, i would want to take matters into my own hands. I would ensure a slow, long drawn out painful death. torture is definitely the way.

But i would make sure that i had many of friends working in the justice department before any of this took place.

 

[Minuend]

Yeah, I doubt any of you would do it. If boundaries were that easily broken, I believe there would be more revenge related homicides. Some perhaps would have punched hir in the face (you know, if you had the strength to lift your pale, scrawny arms to accomplish such a feat).

 

[Particle]

No. It would do nothing but prove I'm no better than the other person.