Merged: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

[Chocobana]

I'm curious if some people with INTP personality have SPD (or the secret version of it). I can see how the two could possibly go hand in hand together in some areas.

A little bit of info-dumping for the clueless (from the ever helpful Wikipedia):

"People with SPD are often aloof, cold and indifferent, which causes interpersonal difficulty. Most individuals diagnosed with SPD have trouble establishing personal relationships or expressing their feelings in a meaningful way. They may remain passive in the face of unfavorable situations. Their communication with other people may be indifferent and concise at times. Because of their lack of meaningful communication with other people, those who are diagnosed with SPD are not able to develop accurate images of how well they get along with others."

"When the individual's personal space is violated, they feel suffocated and feel the need to free themselves and be independent. People who have SPD tend to be happiest when they are in a relationship in which the partner places few emotional or intimate demands on them. It is not people as such that they want to avoid, but emotions both negative and positive, emotional intimacy, and self disclosure."

The Secret Schizoid:

"Many fundamentally schizoid individuals present with an engaging, interactive personality style that contradicts the observable characteristic emphasized by the DSM-IV and ICD-10 definitions of the schizoid personality. Klein classifies these individuals as "secret schizoids", who present themselves as socially available, interested, engaged and involved in interacting yet remain emotionally withdrawn and sequestered within the safety of the internal world.

Withdrawal or detachment from the outer world is a characteristic feature of schizoid pathology, but may appear either in "classic" or in "secret" form. When classic, it matches the typical description of the schizoid personality offered in the DSM-IV. It is however "just as often" a hidden internal state: that which meets the objective eye may not match the subjective, internal world of the patient. Klein therefore cautions that one should not miss identifying the schizoid patient because one cannot see the patient's withdrawal through the patient's defensive, compensatory interaction with external reality. He suggests that one need only ask the patient what his or her subjective experience is in order to detect the presence of the schizoid refusal of emotional intimacy."

Ring any bells?

 

[TimeAsylums]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Empirical Investigation of Jung's Psychological Types and Personality Disorder Features

the schizotypal personality disorder produced the INTP profile

this finding is interesting, because the schizotypal personality disorder is considered to be one of the most severe disturbances of all the personality disorders

Some discussion on the above (INTPf)

 

[Chocobana]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

@TimeAsylums - The schizotypal personality disorder sounds similar to schizoid PD but there are a lot of distinctions. For one, schizotypal PD is closer to schizophrenia than anything else--some of its symptoms are shared with schizophrenia and some people diagnosed with the disorder have also become schizophrenics.

Individuals with schizoid have dislike forming social relationships or connections; they find it difficult to express themselves properly and feel detached/passive. Schizotypal types fear the whole relationship thing (whether romantic or platonic), and -in some cases- suffer from delusions or hallucinations (you could look at it as a mild form of schizophrenia).

 

[TimeAsylums]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Good point; I didn't read that finely enough

Regardless, the point stands that INTPs get a frenzy when it comes to disorders.

 

[Redfire]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

I definitely have schizoid tendencies, but at the same time I have good social skills. I'm also asexual, which is very common among schizoids.
I read an article once that distinguished schizoid tendencies from full-blown SPD. I agree with that. For example: if I was financially independent I would probably give in to my tendency and live as a hermit, but since I have to make a living I find it useful to constantly present an engaging personality.

 

[someoneshady]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Most of these symptons apply to me greatly, although I'm not sure whether I am a shizoid or not. It does imo closely relate to the INTP personality.

 

[StevenM]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Rings bells here as well. Even the secret schizoid sounds a lot like me.

 

[nanook]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

"secret schizoid" stinks like bullshit to me. engaging in life (strongly feeling what you want) and schizoid don't go together in my understanding, thinking type and engaging DO go together, looks like another psychologist tries to pathologize the normal onesidedness of types, because he doesn't know or respect typology. i'm atypical schizoid (atypical because much of a feeling type), but not secretly schizoid at all, the fact that i avoid engagement (lifes feedback to what i want but can't get) couldn't be more obvious. however the typical schizoid is a thinking type and does engage in meaningless day to day business, which is why i can't be typical, since feeling types can't do impersonal engagement in business, its always a feeling matter to us and if you avoid the feels of feedback you have to avoid all engagement. see, it doesn't logically add up. the typical DSM schizoid is already hiding his remoteness behind superficial coolness, if you are hiding it even more, by being especially engaging, you can no longer be in the spectrum of actually avoiding the feels, i reckon. perhaps you hate the feels, but you tolerate them.

on the other hand you can go as far as to say that virtually all men in western culture are schizoid, or western culture itself. but that's not a diagnosis, it's philosophy.

 

[Base groove]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Good point; I didn't read that finely enough

Regardless, the point stands that INTPs get a frenzy when it comes to disorders.

Not a fucking chance.

Regardless, the point stands that you mixed up two distinct conditions and failed at the thread.

 

[Base groove]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

And it's COVERT schizoid. ffs

I've self-diagnozoized myself from time to time but one must always be wary of the inherent stupidity in trying to do so.

Factoid: covert schizoid differs from psychopathy on only a few basic key points - one which I can remember is the attachment style - covert SPD forms attachments to objects where psychopaths form attachments to people, otherwise the two 'conditions' can be relatively indistinguishable at times (although psychopathy is strongly related to extraversion and SPD in general is strongly correlated to introversion)... go figure.

 

[Redfire]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

No. Psychopaths have nothing to do with schizoids, whether covert or overt.

And schizoids are perfectly capable of presenting an engaging personality and participating in social life. They just don't like to do it, but they may still do it for many reasons. E.g: they may not want to be perceived as weird, which is a huge handicap in some situations.

 

[peoplesuck]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

I think i have SPD, i would see a therapist but im trying to save the trees . I feel like relationships are fake and people just in it for things they want..

 

[nexion]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

I would very probably be diagnosed with SPD, but I don't care too much about it, nor consider it a problem or disorder for me. It is just how I am, really.

 

[Minuend]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

What's described here is somewhat vague and something a lot of people can identify with at various stages of their life. Some of the SPD traits can also be found in the autism spectrum, anxiety or in depression, to name some.

The difficulty with a lot of disorders is that you can't know what the inflicted feel, thinks or experiences (only estimate). So in some cases, it becomes like when people think they have migraine when they only have a headache. They feel something, or the lack of, and compare it with something they never have or can experience.

SPD is the inability to form connections with people. In a way they don't have a reward system for interacting with people and thus it becomes more troublesome and tiring than it's worth. Some say they can feel lonely, I'm not so convinced of that. I think in most cases, they wouldn't feel lonely. They don't seem to have that need for people that would initiate loneliness. Speculating... there might be some cases where the schizoid is in distress and, looking to normal people, think that people is what the problem is- thus assuming it's lonely

I don't know to what degree they would form relationships. They are often asexual and don't connect with other people. Perhaps there are instances where they stumble upon a crush, but I don't imagine it's something they would automatically look for.

Some more traits:

Schizoid personality disorder is characterized by a pattern of detachment from social relationships and a restricted range of expression of emotions in interpersonal settings, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by four (or more) of the following:

Neither desires nor enjoys close relationships, including being part of a family
Almost always chooses solitary activities
Has little, if any, interest in having sexual experiences with another person
Takes pleasure in few, if any, activities
Lacks close friends or confidants other than first-degree relatives
Appears indifferent to the praise or criticism of others
Shows emotional coldness, detachment, or flattened affect (emotion)

This is quite different from being an INTP who would still enjoy itself with other people it gets along with, being able to feel the normal range of emotions.

If SPD is the only problem, I would assume that the majority is fine living with it, they are comfortable. So they are never diagnosed because they never seek help. Which is a principle for all disorders: if it doesn't cause distress for the inflicted or those around it, no diagnosis is really necessary.

As for type and disorders, I'm highly skeptical to people managing to separate the disorder from the type. I think it's very unlikely a ENF with SPD would be typed as such, for instance.

 

[Variform]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Individuals with schizoid have dislike forming social relationships or connections; they find it difficult to express themselves properly and feel detached/passive. Schizotypal types fear the whole relationship thing (whether romantic or platonic), and -in some cases- suffer from delusions or hallucinations (you could look at it as a mild form of schizophrenia).

I have been dx'ed with StPD and have talked a lot with some Schizoid people. The difference is quite big.

A schizoid person has no need for social interaction and quite happy to spend time alone. It is comparable to what Jung describes as the vector of the libido. Well, my rephrasing, that. It is directed outward or inward.

I do not fear a relationship, in fact, I want it really really badly. There is fear involved, but in StPD there is loads of fear on many topics. It is a fear based on distrust and paranoia, questioning peoples' motives.

StPD's desire, whereas schizoids do not, or very much less so than any other personality type or disorder.

StPD is not a mild form of schizophrenia. People just keep copying that from websites left and right, even from websites that are supposed to know better.

But that is not what StPD is. Asperger Syndrome, as an autistic spectrum disorder is as different from the classical Kanner autism as StPD is from schizophrenia, on the schizophrenic or psychotic spectrum.

It is not, as often stated, a mild form of schizophrenia. Because there is nothing 'mild' about Asperger Syndrome either. If you have that, you are in abig pile of shit, so is it when you have StPD.

StPD is very disabling and debilitating all onto its own. It doesn't have to be close to or be a mild form of SZ to be really bad and cause great dysfunction and stress in life.

I think to compare StPD to schizophrenia should be avoided because it suggests that it is less bad than having SZ. It is not. Maybe in some ways worse.

In the way that someone with Asperger Syndrome (AS) can be misunderstood because he is 'high functioning'. And that therefore the difficulties in life should be relatively small. The StPD person could quickly be perceived as high functioning schizophrenic and that therefore he should be able to participate in society relatively easy, or easier than someone with SZ.

Yet most people just copy after any other website that copied it themselves from another, that StPD is 'mild'. There is nothing mild about my symptoms. I may sound smart with a good grasp on language but the fact is, I am pretty much as disabled in my functioning, like work related or in social relations as my ex girlfriend's brother, who is permanently hospitalized and has in fact, schizophrenia.

He lies in bed all day, drinks coffee, eats too much when the dinner service comes to the place he lives, eats his medicine and does fuck all most of the day, except for smoking a lot. And pacing back and forth between bed, the smoke room, the terrace outside, to smoke, to get coffee and eat and shit and the occasional visit to the recreation room to draw pictures a typical 4-year old would make.

What do I do? I write forum posts half the day, look at websites to satisfy a range of interests, that I cannot actively pursue. I play games the rest of the day, then cook for myself although the pots and pans I use should have been cleaned a week ago. I get groceries, I shit, I make tea, coffee again too, sit behind the PC all day.

He lies in bed, I do the pc. He hears voices, I ruminate. e shits, I shit. He eats, I cook. He paces, I pace. He gets more coffee, I get more tea. He draws pictures, I used to make ceramics. And yes, my work has a somewhat higher standard than a 4 year old would have. But my capbility is levelled off at a maximum lower than what normal people would probbaly be able to accomplish.

His GAF-score is lower than 60, mine is 60. He has more relationships than I have. He pays to be taken to the red light district and fuck a prostitute. I am too scared to do that. He talks to other patients that live in their rooms in the institution, I do not. I did at the ceramics class though but outside of the grouip of usually like 3, 4 or 5 people I did not interact with others much for the 10 years + I been there, because the social aspect is just hard.

So in ways he has more interaction with people than I do. His thinking is more blurred, the voices, contact makes him tired and its too much after 15 minutes, when he kicks everyone out. I can sustain it longer, but get tired just the same.

So, compare me to a full blown schizophrenic and on a scale from 1 to 10, SZ being 10, I am a 7.

So. Never ever copy these websites and their 'mild schizophenia' nonsense.

 

[Base groove]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

No. Psychopaths have nothing to do with schizoids, whether covert or overt.

And schizoids are perfectly capable of presenting an engaging personality and participating in social life. They just don't like to do it, but they may still do it for many reasons. E.g: they may not want to be perceived as weird, which is a huge handicap in some situations.

I take some issue with this post...

First off... your second paragraph, resonates highly with descriptions of psychopathic traits.

Secondly, your first paragraph is lacking in any evidence or counterpoint to refute my claim. Perhaps you didn't quite look into it deeply enough. I suppose the 'burden of proof' is mine, in this case, although that can be a whimsical subject in itself; there have been times where I've been in your shoes and the fool who made whatever claim had taken the stance that I need to supply proof to refute it. Then there have been times where I've been in this situation and the person who refutes the claim has denied any responsibility for proving their refutation.

So honestly, it's a lose/lose situation and sort of reminds me of a popularity contest at the end of the day; I've come to the conclusion that the "burden of proof" rests on whomever is being more confrontational or ass-like. I presume since I swore "fuck" in my post that automatically puts the burden on me.

From my point of view, you are lacking in evidence.

Here are some links that I was referencing:

http://www.shy-in-the-firelight.com/psychopathaspd.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoid_personality_disorder

~

A brief analyziz of the post exchange that brought us here might help me sort this out:

• I said they "differ on a few key points"
• I supplied one example, (Attachment style), while acknowledging there are more (such as extraversion).
• You said "no, they have nothing to do with each other".
• (As I've already mentioned here), you proceeded to make a sweeping statement about "schizoids" (failing to distinguish between covert and overt), which I believe is descriptive of more than one psychopathic trait (grandiosity, manipulation).
• Actually, you could easily swap out the word "psychopath" for the word "schizoid" in your post and it would be just as/more valid.

So what the fuck? I think you jumped the gun a bit. Maybe you reacted to me being confrontational with TA?

 

[Redfire]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

No, it's just that my computer doesn't work and it's a drag to write on the iPad, so I kept my answer short. But my point is that any similarities between schizoids and psychopaths are external, their process is completely different. I'll come back (maybe). Otherwise you win.

People with avoidant personality disorder share almost all of their traits with schizoids. Does that mean those are the same disorders or even similar disorders? No, they avoid people for completely different reasons. Any similarities between psychopathy and SPD are of the same fashion.

 

[Variform]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

I have been on a mailing list for SPD and my impression based on over a year of contact with many of them is that they do not match up with symptoms of antisocial disorder.

 

[Matriluzviva]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

[ARTICLE][/ARTICLE] sometimes I break my connections with my feelings when I feel obligated to verbalize it or express them in order to avoid people seeing me as indifferent, like there's a duality between language and feelings, and I would say how I feel for a million hours it won't feed anyone with any real proof of my feelings, so I avoid to talk about my feelings because there's some social stereotypical convention that tends to constrain the real experience I have with my feelings and threatens to break it, it happens only when I speak about them in a social situation.

 

[Chocobana]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

@Base groove - I'm not so sure about the comparison of covert schizoid types to psychopaths (and I did read that page on ASPDs, psychopaths, and schizoids). I could see how they could be similar (i.e. their outer and inner personas are completely different) but it's like trying to compare a ball to an orange. Yes, they're both round but that's where the similarities end.

So they are comparable in only a few key points, and not the other way around.

Similarities between covert schizoids and psychopaths that I could think of:

-Not particularly interested in social interaction.
-Both still put the charm on with all its fakeness (and even that is a little problematic).

Psychopaths are assured, inherently confident, and extroverted, but covert schizoids only pretend to be outgoing when they're generally introverted (you mentioned this point yourself). Also, psychopaths are a whole league of their own: they're impulsive, they can't feel fear or nervousness (they tend to have some lazy amygdalas to put it mildly)...etc. They put themselves right at the center of the social scene and they rise very high up the ladder. I don't see how covert schizoids would bear that kind of life, if their dislike of social interactions is anything to go by. The more logical conclusion would be that they put up an extroverted front but limit their interactions with other people to a reasonable degree.

And I also haven't found research on the nonexistence of a moral compass or empathy in people diagnosed with SPD. Maybe we can bring this discussion much further once more research is done on covert schizoids. But still, you can't at this point call the two PDs "almost indistinguishable". It doesn't make sense.

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

And it's COVERT schizoid. ffs

I've self-diagnozoized myself from time to time but one must always be wary of the inherent stupidity in trying to do so.

Which is why we have teenage girls running around claiming to have OCD which they discovered through their self-diagnosis.

 

[Base groove]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Which is why we have teenage girls running around claiming to have OCD which they discovered through their self-diagnosis.

The inherent stupidity of it? Most def.

However, if you visit the SPD forums, half the membership is self-diagnosed.

Schizoid personality is relatively common; as you can see about three-four respondents in this thread are nearly willing to commit to a self-diagnosis.

The difference I suppose is a teenage girl hasn't developed her personality into adulthood yet and probably doesn't know a single thing about OCD.... while 20-30 year old men and women who consider they may have SPD have probably committed more time and effort to researching the disorder and serious introspection.

~~ on this subject, as well as addressing all the psychopathy talk

Obviously I made a mistake to imply they are similar disorders as I have met some backlash here ...

I would first point out to Variform that psychopathy IS NOT the same as ASPD, in fact, the website I linked included ASPD as a separate disorder for comparison and it was even farther removed from SPD.

There is a small issue with the self-diagnosis crowd in that some folks can't determine whether their pathological disturbances are due to psychopathy or covert schizoid PD. I suppose I'm not the only one who recognizes some similarities in these disorders.

A fictional example: Hannibal Lecter.

Many folks consider him to be a psychopath or sociopath however many other folks consider him to have covert SPD. So what now??

 

[Variform]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

"Antisocial personality disorder (ASPD) is the name of the disorder as defined in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual (DSM). Dissocial personality disorder is the name of a similar or equivalent concept defined in the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD), where it states that the diagnosis includes antisocial personality disorder. Both manuals have similar but not identical criteria.[1] Both have also stated that their diagnoses have been referred to, or include what is referred to, as psychopathy or sociopathy, though distinctions are sometimes made."

"Psychopathy is commonly defined as a personality disorder characterized partly by antisocial behavior, a diminished capacity for remorse, and poor behavioral controls."

"American psychiatrist Hervey Cleckley's work[citation needed] on psychopathy formed the basis of the diagnostic criteria for ASPD, and the DSM has stated that ASPD has also been referred to as psychopathy."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder

 

[Base groove]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Yeah, and?

Psychopathy and ASPD are not recognized as the same thing. Your information is dated..... Now is the time you should consult the Wikipedia article: History of Psychopathy for more information regarding the up-to-date information.

Psychopathy is partially recognized as a derivative or subset of ASPD, partially recognized as its own distinct condition, partially neurological in basis, partially based on epigenetics, and partially considered a vast cluster of traits that do not present with enough reliability to warrant an objective diagnostic criteria. These are not simply "some distinctions" as your recently linked content has suggested.

 

[Variform]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Interesting article. Thank you for referring me. It does seem that throughout the centuries the definition shifted, from an almost all-inclusive pathology to a more and more narrowing set of traits.

My impression after this article is that it may still be shifting. If that is true, then the experts still don't know for sure what this disorder is. That means no one can make any true claim on a definition.

I guess we have no choice but to ask the neurologists and neuro-biologists for more hard data. Can we prove it by examining the brain?

So. If no one truly has the answer... you can argue back and forth endlessly. Count me out though.

 

[kvothe27]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

Anthony Hopkin's character in The Remains of the Day offers a good portrayal of a secret schizoid. Additionally, it's a pretty good movie. Check it out:

http://www.primewire.ag/watch-16753-The-Remains-of-the-Day

If you read the imdb comments about Hopkin's character, you'll see why schizoids would have interpersonal difficulties.

 

[Chocobana]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

@kvothe27 - Nice example. I didn't watch the movie but I did read the book (which I recommend to psych geeks because Stevens is one peculiar character). He's cold and dry in tone but not entirely emotionless, since he did/does love a woman and he is obsessed with his ideals (you could label him 'passionate' except that it would imply too much emotion). The thing is, he never acted out on his feelings although the woman loved him back.

So he could potentially be a covert schizoid. Though there's still the fact he still had this unhealthy relationship with his master where he'd put him over everything in his life. I thought/assumed schizoids (overt or covert) preferred to fly solo so correct me if I'm wrong and there are exceptions.

Do you think if Stevens is actually a schizoid, then he did not look at his master as a person but instead as some sort of higher being (i.e. God)? Curious, curious.

 

[kvothe27]

Re: INTPs with Schizoid Personality Disorder (SPD)

I viewed his master as an essential figure in the role that he played. He depended on his master and went with what he wanted (such as in the case with the Jew girls) because he didn't want to get involved with the emotions of such a case. If he were to voice opposition, it would mean he'd have to compromise his role and expose his personality. His role immunized him to this. His subservience to his master maintained his role and allowed him to keep his personality sequestered away in a safe place.

It wasn't that he was overly loyal to his master. It was that he was overly loyal to his role, which required apparent loyalty to his master. He was flying solo. His only apparently strong attachment was his attachment to his role, which he used to survive.

 

[RunForWord]

is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

like what are the differences?

 

[TBerg]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

According to the fully dimensional model of Schizotypy, we all bear the traits of that atypical set of psychical patterns, with different people displaying different amounts of different aspects of the diagnostic criteria. But not all people are INTPs, so it has to be more than an INTP trait. A set of paranoid beliefs, magical thinking, and inability to relate to others does not equal strong Ti.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

Like why do you need to ask this? There are set criteria, just compare them. This isn't the first thread dealing with the topic either.

 

[StevenM]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

Here is my take on it. (just my opinion).

My answer, is no. Being INTP does not equate to being schizotypal.

Being an INTP doesn't mean you will never have long-term contact with anyone, and living completely recluse. Being INTP doesn't make you always do the weirdest actions and behaviors that don't make any logical sense. INTP's may have a zany Ne, but our thinking isn't always bizzare or surreal.

If you go through the symptoms of schizotypal, they may seem like INTP characteristics if you lighten them up a little. Perhaps INTP's do prefer being alone, and sometimes, we are a little weird. But the symptoms of SPD are things that make it very hard for someone to live and interferes with their daily life.

A regular old INTP lives life without any of these problems.

 

[QuickTwist]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

@TMills27, you make a good point although you weren't really specific enough. I don't know enough about either INTPs or Schizoid type personalities to give a good compare and contrast but suffice to say, being a schizoid type personality does not mean that you can't end up living a relatively normal existence with treatment. It really just depends on how bad the onset of the mental illness is/was. With the right medication and other psychological treatment you would be surprised what some Schizoid type thinkers can accomplish. John Nash -Nobel Prize winner and Tom Harrell -Jazz musician are two people who overcame schizophrenia to accomplish great things. I hope to be one of the people to overcome this disability as well.

 

[StevenM]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

I actually don't have much information about the issue. I just was basing that information of the couple of happy INTP's that I know, who did not need any treatment for this kind of disability. I also wonder if other MBTI types could also have an onset of this disorder. This would make it probable that there is a difference between INTP and SPD.

 

[QuickTwist]

Re: is schizotypical personality disorder another label for intps?

Although this is subjective give that it is only me, I was typed as INTJ through a video by @Auburn. I think what your on to is that there are certain types that are more susceptible to this kind of thinking than the other types. I would say an ISTJ also has a decent chance of having schizoid type thinking if their Si is disorganized. Essentially whether an individual is susceptible to schizoid type thinking becomes a matter of DNA, stress (this is key), circumstance and drugs & alcohol -all things that the MBTI doesn't strictly account for or explain.

 

[Reluctantly]

Just for the record (because Variform and Base groove brought it up), schizoids usually have a cognitive dissonance, regarding their emotions, that are unresolved and leaves them to believe emotional numbing is a viable solution, while someone with just antisocial personality disorder is not going to be emotionally conflicted. So essentially a schizoid masks and numbs an emotional sensitivity, while someone with APD does not feel much to begin with. Though why they are sensitive and what it is that they are sensitive toward is vastly up for debate however and I imagine no two people that fall into being schizoid are going to have the same circumstances or feelings regarding their state. I guess that's why there are so many different ideas on the matter and subtypes and what not.

 

[Kaycee]

Ok so I am a covert schizoid and INTP. Stumbled on this whilst doing some research on the condition. But I don't think they are related I may be a covert schizoid and living in a fantasy land but I am also a logical person and think scitenfically. Not sure if that's because I don't clearly get the concepts of feeling or normality so I have to think logically. I see the world for how it is and not for how I want it to be. But then again I have to be logical in my job I am a data analyst and have a such interest in science. My job does mean I work alone which I prefer, but I can't really explain what it's like to have schizoid because I think it's hard for people to understand especially me at first I was in my early 20s when it kicked in full throttle, which I am glad it didn't start any younger. When my emotions how I would say switched of completely leaving me on a constant neutral I had to learn how to read people, in situations especially at work I think logically and I am know to being rather blunt and sarcastic as its easier to respond by joking than an emotion. It's a hard condition to have occassionly but other than that I am content, it drives me in my work because I can get hooked on a topic and obsess with getting it right, I have to feel like I am achieving something which may be the INTP, as I am extremely unorganised and deadlines I shrug of as I rather get each concept right. I know I am odd and if you ever met me you wouldn't actually notice as I came the master of faking extroversion even though when forced into social settings I will talk and be civil even though I'd rather be at home getting lost in research and learning about what ever topic I am on that week.

 

[Grayman]

Ok so I am a covert schizoid and INTP. Stumbled on this whilst doing some research on the condition. But I don't think they are related I may be a covert schizoid and living in a fantasy land but I am also a logical person and think scitenfically. Not sure if that's because I don't clearly get the concepts of feeling or normality so I have to think logically. I see the world for how it is and not for how I want it to be. But then again I have to be logical in my job I am a data analyst and have a such interest in science. My job does mean I work alone which I prefer, but I can't really explain what it's like to have schizoid because I think it's hard for people to understand especially me at first I was in my early 20s when it kicked in full throttle, which I am glad it didn't start any younger. When my emotions how I would say switched of completely leaving me on a constant neutral I had to learn how to read people, in situations especially at work I think logically and I am know to being rather blunt and sarcastic as its easier to respond by joking than an emotion. It's a hard condition to have occassionly but other than that I am content, it drives me in my work because I can get hooked on a topic and obsess with getting it right, I have to feel like I am achieving something which may be the INTP, as I am extremely unorganised and deadlines I shrug of as I rather get each concept right. I know I am odd and if you ever met me you wouldn't actually notice as I came the master of faking extroversion even though when forced into social settings I will talk and be civil even though I'd rather be at home getting lost in research and learning about what ever topic I am on that week.

How would you say your life was in your 20's versus 18 and 19?

 

[ENTP lurker]

Well, I think I share fair amount of traits with schizotypals.
After reading Millon's case studies of it rang a bell much more than the actual diagnostic criteria ever did.

 

[Andronas]

I'm not a big believer in personality disorders. In fact, I take everything I read about in the realms of psychology and psychiatry with quite a bit of salt. The problem with psychological disorders is that you can get diagnosed with however many you feel like being diagnosed with if you go to just a few people who work in the field. I think part of the diagnoses are based on whether or not your therapist likes you. What stinks to me about this supposed disorder is that you can be diagnosed with it even without manifesting symptoms. Schizoid, secret schizoid. So basically anyone and everyone can fit. It sounds pretty BS-ey to me.

 

[ENTP lurker]

Problems arises from qualitative criteria. Because there are plenty of variety it is pretty to pin down something definite.
I think you should always read and observe plenty of case studies (from good sources text and diagnosticans and especially evaluate wheter the diagnosis was based on real or getting around the strict system) before you can decide. You can definitely cross the boundary towards pathology

 

[Kaycee]

How would you say your life was in your 20's versus 18 and 19?

I was still cold, distant and disconnected from people, I just didn't realise I was. To me this was the norm, but it got worse and I became not only disconnected from people but from the world, I always had a wild imagination but I started to get lost deeper and deeper in my own mind, some how this became my safe haven.

 

[stepfanie]

After finding out i was an INTP . It was like someone unlocked a cage i had been hidden in a corner for years, then i found out i could have schizoid , I immediately apologized to my mother, I was miserable growing up.

 

[scorpiomover]

Empirical Investigation of Jung's Psychological Types and Personality Disorder Features

the schizotypal personality disorder produced the INTP profile

this finding is interesting, because the schizotypal personality disorder is considered to be one of the most severe disturbances of all the personality disorders

Some discussion on the above (INTPf)

I tabulated the results, according to the assumption that the schizotypal results corresponded to INTP.
This is the table:
Antisocial: ENTP
Avoidant: ISTP
Borderline: INFP
Dependent: INFP
Depressive: INTJ
Histrionic: ENFP
Narcissistic: INTJ
Obsessive-Compulsive: ISTJ
Paranoid: INTP
Passive-Agressive: INTP
Sadistic: ENTP
Self-Defeating: INTP
Schizoid : ISTJ
Schizotypal: INTP

These are the disorders for each type:
ENTP: Antisocial, Sadistic
ENFP: Histrionic
INFP: Borderline, Dependent
INTJ: Depressive, Narcissistic
ISTP: Avoidant
INTP: Paranoid, Passive-Aggressive, Self-Defeating, Schizotypal
ISTJ: Obsessive-Compulsive, Schizoid

I find it interesting that according to this, ENFJs are NOT histrionic, ENTPs are both antisocial and sadistic, and INTJs are both depressive and narcissistic, especially since one would expect very different results, based on their types (ISTJs are the opposite of weird (schizoid), being sadistic requires doing thing to others and achieving a goal (J), and INTJs are the least depressive people I've ever come across. They almost never get down, and then only for a short time.)

 

[elliptoid]

Some of those aren't even disorders. This study needs to be redone.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Some of those aren't even disorders. This study needs to be redone.

You know what I think?

DSM should drop the "disorder" etonym* and just call it personality.

Boderline Personality
Avoidant Personality
Bipolar Personality
Aspergers Personality
Schizotypal Personality
Lakkov Personality



* epiphet, I mean, I think,

 

[elliptoid]

Yeah they could do that but it would sort of betray their main objective.
The DSM could just not exist.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Yeah they could do that but it would sort of betray their main objective.
The DSM could just not exist.

Nooooo no no

You have it all backwards

DSM is a typology system

they just wanna get the best drugs for whoever wants em $$

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

DDD (DSM Denial Disorder) may be life-threatening if untreated

main symptoms are: scepticism about any of the true facts in the DSM, refusal to accept the diagnoses of professionals who have assimilated the true facts in the DSM, scepticism regarding the philanthropic benevolence of pharmaceutical companies, maniacal laughter, scepticism regarding the sanity of the world in general, maniacal laughter, banging of head against walls and other hard surfaces, maniacal laughter

if you have any of the above symptoms send me all your $$$ now for drugs that are not guaranteed to suppress any of the symptoms and free yourself from the inconvenience of addressing any of the underlying causes of the symptoms

 

[Nebulous]

Oh shit I might have a bit of that
Just a bit though

But wait, I shouldn't self diagnose myself with anything
That's wrong