Merged: Grama nazi?/spelling nazism.

[Trebuchet]

Re: Grama nazi?.

I am a grammar Nazi because I find clarity and exactness to be very important. For example:

"Let's eat, Grandma!"
vs.
"Let's eat Grandma!"

Commas save lives.

That's not being a grammar nazi. Or prescriptivist - I like that term. You are merely precise. Your second example is clearly not correct English, assuming you are addressing Grandma.

A grammar prescriptivist gets bent out of shape about someone else's so-called split infinitives, or "less" vs. "fewer," or whether I should have put that comma outside the quotes. They delight in telling people where they have erred. I've heard of prescritivists throwing out resumes because the applicant ended a sentence with a preposition. I had an English teacher who would fail any paper that contained any form of the verb "to be" because he thought (wrongly) that it was in the passive voice. Those are grammar assholes - I like that term, too.

 

[BigApplePi]

Re: Grama nazi?.

I am a grammar Nazi because I find clarity and exactness to be very important. For example:

"Let's eat, Grandma!"
vs.
"Let's eat Grandma!"

Commas save lives.

I would say if one gets the point across, precision goes more to aesthetics than practicality. But if there is more than one interpretation, this is not about precision. It's about avoiding disaster.

 

[EmergingAlbert]

Re: Grama nazi?.

I wouldn't consider myself a prescriptivist. I don't particularly enjoy correcting others' grammar, although I have been known to do it on occasion. I don't like to criticize people just for pleasure...but sometimes I'll correct somebody if I think they really need it.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Re: Grama nazi?.

i for one, tihnk it"s raelly fukcing overaretd.

i'm sorry that that ^ had to be really annoying. but if it takes you more than 5 seconds to decipher it then you are not INTP


seriously you guys. to authoritatively dictate meticulous order, a priority over free floating? intuition shouldn't require it that badly. i see it as being akin to wearing a suit and tie around in public for every single social situation. but i'm more of a "revolution" craving INTP who feels like the box is keeping us down, maan. i kinda find the automatic mental association about "improper appearance" a bit uncivilized in its rigid conformity to the traditional idea of what civilized is.

but i won't argue about the stereotypical "txting n ur fone" type, that one is a relatively developed chat lingo, which is nowhere near "free and outside" as it is annoying.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Re: Grama nazi?.

i for one, tihnk it"s raelly fukcing overaretd.

i'm sorry that that ^ had to be really annoying. but if it takes you more than 5 seconds to decipher it then you are not INTP

I didn't even notice that the first part was mistyped until I read the second part.

 

[EditorOne]

Re: Grama nazi?.

"
Originally Posted by GYX_Kid
i for one, tihnk it"s raelly fukcing overaretd.


I didn't even notice that the first part was mistyped until I read the second part. "


You got it despite the misspelling because you are reading the shape of the words, which a great many people do. I didn't notice anything wrong until I got to "fukc", which is the wrong shape. I believe among our other attributes we're also big on patterns? That doesn't mean just the big cerebral stuff. Patterns are in the little stuff, too, like the shapes of words.
But just because we can figure it out doesn't mean it isn't wrong. At some level the indifference of people to being understood through the correct or conventional use of spelling, grammar and punctuation is rude and selfish, which gets a big "fukc yuo" from me. If you don't care to be understood with precision and don't care you garbled the meaning with your carelessness, don't expect me to waste my time trying to figure out what you meant rather than what you wrote. "You" being the generic you, not anyone in this thread.

 

[BYOS]

Re: Grama nazi?.

This may be weird for an INTP, but I thoroughly enjoy the aesthetics of the written word.

Sometimes I capitalize Needlessly, because I think it Emphasizes exactly what I Want.

When I italicize, it brings the whole word (and thus the sentence) up or down, depending on the original dynamics of the sentence it belongs to.

I jest... by halves. I meant that halfly, is what I mean.

Point is, as everyone here has basically stated, everything must be done to be clear and precise, in writing and in speech.

Expression and understanding of logical progression of thought in writing and in speech is much aided by correct grammar. Grammar—a set way that words should be arranged for optimum comprehension by a reader or listener—is a product of the desire and need for clarity and precision.

Thus, a good understanding of grammar is essential to be logical and precise (very important things to an INTP, so I understand).

And I'm sure you wouldn't deny the importance of using the absolute "right" word for your purposes.

My Findings:

Right Words = important and essential to expressing something precisely and logically.

Sentence = made of words.

Right Sentence = made of right words, because right words are important, to form a right whole, capable of being understood rightly, as intended.

Grammar = aids arrangement of right words into right sentences.

Conclusion = we like right words -> right sentences -> thus, we like grammar because it helps make right sentences, which are made up of right words, organized by grammar, which we like because it helps makes right sentences.... (Take the circle around again, if you'd like.)

Punctuation DOES count a lot more than capitalization, in my opinion, but capitalization makes stuff look pretty, and helps distinguish between things like "Eliza" (a name, typically for a female), and ELIZA (a computer program).

I can write "I" (myself) as "i" (also myself, but smaller and more informal looking), and it wouldn't matter. Or at least it shouldn't.

i culd rite without any comas capitultin ro any regrd fro wrting conventns and... its killin meh!!!1 <- And it really would matter, because Eye Scream would be rampant.

Could I write, yes, regard no order, logic or, because die you can! And you would die.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Re: Grama nazi?.

I didn't even notice that the first part was mistyped until I read the second part.

i know, right?

You got it despite the misspelling because you are reading the shape of the words, which a great many people do. I didn't notice anything wrong until I got to "fukc", which is the wrong shape. I believe among our other attributes we're also big on patterns? That doesn't mean just the big cerebral stuff. Patterns are in the little stuff, too, like the shapes of words.
But just because we can figure it out doesn't mean it isn't wrong. At some level the indifference of people to being understood through the correct or conventional use of spelling, grammar and punctuation is rude and selfish, which gets a big "fukc yuo" from me. If you don't care to be understood with precision and don't care you garbled the meaning with your carelessness, don't expect me to waste my time trying to figure out what you meant rather than what you wrote. "You" being the generic you, not anyone in this thread.

this is a good point. does the topic not relate at all though, to the concept of various levels of formality within culture? right now i'm typing with casual appearance: no misspellings etc, and basically constructing sentences overall in the same "winded manner" of which i would speak.
kind of like a t-shirt and sweatpants. sure it's lazy not to hit the shift key, but sweatpants are ever so slightly more comfortable. and it isn't so outside the realm of etiquette like running around naked would be (tieyping lwk4 thiurkjgn8==>fgs), which may be slightly funny and appalling to look at.

If I added a tie or switched pants like so, I would half-assume that my sentence would catch your attention more quickly and maybe be taken more seriously on a subconscious habitual level. There are obvious practical reasons to this regarding communication, in the same way that someone dressing in an abnormally formal fashion would garner attention and higher "subconscious respect" from a significant portion of people.

The truth though, is that this form is basically the norm of etiquette. now it's like i'm very slightly punking out some part of my appearance in a crowd of people wearing uniforms. in the workplace it is definitely considered rude to show up with messy hair and in sweatpants. is the internet a workplace? should "serious threads" be taken more "seriously"? it's kind of a serious question, actually.

basically, i am on a certain level projecting my own "bypass the book cover and focus on the filling" mentality. sometimes 8 year olds manifest profound and influential thoughts.



now a word from my pet intellectual juggalo:

'SUP NIGGAZ. ONE TIME, I RAN SMACK FUCK INTO A MUHFUCKIN STOP SIGN AND BLACKED OUT. IN MY DREAM IT WAS LIKE, YOUR BODY IS A VEHICLE FOR YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS SO DON'T STOP TRAVELING IF YOU'RE A CURIOUS SOUL WANDERING THROUGH DISCOVERIES


i brought him in here for show and tell to add to my presentation, for your convenience he will never show up again. can't have him blacking out like that too many more times.

 

[Joz_helloworld]

Re: Grama nazi?.

I perceive myself as INTP until I find evidence to the contrary...

but I get annoyed over 'grammar Nazis'. I do notice misspelt words, however, I deem it unimportant. To me it is a style over substance issue, and I really don't care too much about style.

Otherwise valid arguments can get sidetracked by this obsession, and furthermore I've seen people critisised as stupid for bad grammar when bad grammar/spelling has nothing whatsoever to do with intelligence or the strength of an argument, which also annoys me.

Clarifying your argument is pretty important though, so as to get your point across, and good grammar aids this, but it is not the be all and end all of clear arguments.

I'm describing in this post other forums, not this one, which I haven't been on long enough to see such behaviour.

 

[pjoa09]

Re: Grama nazi?.

no it isnt mattar.

in fact if u noes wat we talkin bout, den its ok

lyk 'hey yo mama so fat''

u see he noe what, iz me talkinabout u noe ?

Couldn't resist.

I wonder if you make a spelling mistake on this thread is a taboo.

I used to be a grammar Nazi. But the only place you really see in your face irritating unforgivable mistakes are on Youtube. Correct the grammar of a Youtuber and he gives you plenty more to correct.

You can move on to the next video and still see spelling errors.

Over here, things seem definitely comprehensible. You can spot some but you wouldn't be forced to re-read words every time.

 

[DarkLink]

spelling nazism

INTP's seem to often be labelled as spelling/grammar Nazis- a somewhat defining trait. I've found personally that this is more true of the INTJ.

How could speling mistakes irritate you as an INTP? Languge is after all only a man-made system for purpose of communiction- rarely does a spelling\grammar mistake hinder this communication- so why should one feel the need to point it out?.
A waste of time. I only become a Nazi when I'm trying to be doucheface.

I do notice these mistakes however. Every. Single. One.
Am I bovered m8,
No...

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Re: spelling nazism

I get bothered when the meaning of the sentence changes. When the misspelling would lead to an error. Also I tend to be wary of the spelling mistakes and I see a tendency in people making these mistakes to also err logically and to care less about consistency, so it is a flag.

 

[kris]

Re: spelling nazism

Languages are systems built on mutual understanding of symbolic representation. No system needs to be perfect, but there needs to be some agreement between users on what's what. When you have millions, if not billions speaking the same language, much of that understanding comes from convention and prescription.

As a generalization, the closer your writing is to the conventions most of your target audience understands, the greater the likelihood others will clearly understand your writing. The further you stray from convention, the more you increase potential for misunderstanding.

Misunderstanding does not always come in the form of total incomprehension. It can vary in degree from a complete inability to understand to a slightly altered interpretation of an author's message. For short exchanges, minor misinterpretations may not always make a huge difference, but for longer discussions -- especially regarding complex material --, these small misunderstandings can add up to something nasty.

While I am not a perfectionist or an absolute prescriptivist, I do think it's important to respect the spelling and grammar conventions your target audience is expecting. When one does break convention, hopefully it is done intentionally to enhance meaning rather than accidentally or indifferently banking on one's readers to close the gap between what is written and what is meant.

 

[Base groove]

Re: spelling nazism

I've found personally that this is more true of the INTJ.

probz

 

[Pyropyro]

Re: spelling nazism

I'm more forgiving if the poster isn't a native English speaker.

Personally, I rate poor sentence construction worse than spelling/grammar errors.

 

[nexion]

Re: spelling nazism

I no longer consider myself a grammar Nazi.

However, I will personally hold you to what you say and go on a tangent about semantics and word meaning for hours if you aren't very careful about such things. I have very nuanced views on language and communication.

I do see almost every mistake though.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: spelling nazism

Language is a dynamic communication device. The rules of grammar are important for effective communication and are generally studied more by speakers of second languages.

If you think of language as a car, then grammar would refer to the quality of the vehicle.

Some people are content with travelling in a three wheeled banger, whilst others would prefer a Rolls Royce. This car analogy works quite well because some people will view a driver of a Bentley to be a pompous prick. Similarly, others may scoff at the driver of a 1983 Lada.

 

[Beowulf]

Re: spelling nazism

As an INTX i find this somewhat true. Most of the time i treat it like any other thing in life and i let it slide but sometimes its so bad that i may have nightmares if don't fix it.

Sent from my LG-LS980 using Tapatalk

 

[Anktark]

Re: spelling nazism

There is a difference between a mistake and a disregard for the grammar. The former is understandable- I don't expect perfect ortography from anyone. If it's the latter, then I am unlikely to care for your ideas, presence or life.

I easily make exception(s) for trolling if bad grammar serves a purpose, though.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Re: spelling nazism

i like exploring language and making etymological associations, often mistaken for nitpicky superiority, but i don't judge people for making errors or possessing a small vocabulary or little verbal processing power. there's plenty of ways to communicate through language, many of which operate outside the confines of established grammar and spelling yet retain validity (i.e. expression of mental independence, self awareness and wit).

however, i notice errors and sometimes feel compelled to correct if these are clearly involuntary and have no expressive purpose or effect. most of the time this impulse is suppressed. in typological terms i would say my Ne-Si secondary axis is then tempered by my dominant Ji.

i reckon NP's overall excel in many aspects of language, predominantly parsing/analysis as well as flexibility regarding scope. this does not correlate with excessive grammar/spelling zeal though. again the (poorly developed) ISTJ's are the actual villains

 

[Jennywocky]

Re: spelling nazism

I get bothered when the meaning of the sentence changes. When the misspelling would lead to an error. Also I tend to be wary of the spelling mistakes and I see a tendency in people making these mistakes to also err logically and to care less about consistency, so it is a flag.

I tend to have that latter response.

If someone spells words wrong consistently, I tend to see them as sloppy and careless. And since I learned spelling through reading (so I recognize when words "look wrong" even if I don't quite know how to spell them myself), it suggests they don't really read much either... hence, they aren't really researching their ideas or are as likely to be as well-informed.

Spelling correctly shows pride in one's work;
willingness to be clear in one's communication;
exposure to a wide range of vocabulary.

... the worst for me are trolls who can't spell.
It's like being harassed by the village idiot who thinks he's a king.



.... anyway, I take the big picture into account and evaluate as fairly as I can.

 

[Base groove]

Re: spelling nazism

10 Basic Rules for Italicization

 

[Lot]

Re: spelling nazism

I don't like when people correct my spelling and/or grammar. Its annoying, self righteous, and condescending.

There are a few rules, that when broken bother me, but even then I usually don't care enough to say anything. I still got what the person said.

A lot of the rules of grammar are stupid. As long as you get your point across, why should anyone care? I think in concepts.

 

[kris]

Re: spelling nazism

I think in concepts.

No one is likely to criticize the grammar you use for the thoughts in your head.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: spelling nazism

I mock Americanisms such as learned. In the dictionary learned is an adjective, not a verb. ^^

 

[kris]

Re: spelling nazism

I mock Americanisms such as learned. In the dictionary learned is an adjective, not a verb. ^^

Is there an inside joke (or one which went over my head) there or something?

 

[Base groove]

Re: spelling nazism

The past tense of the verb to learn is learnt in Hawkeye's world.

 

[kris]

Re: spelling nazism

Oh. Well, I've made similar mistakes myself. The first time I heard someone say 'ironical' I dove right in with mockery, but in the end I was the one who got burnt when I learnt it was actually correct.

 

[DarkLink]

Re: spelling nazism

I'm more forgiving if the poster isn't a native English speaker.

Personally, I rate poor sentence construction worse than spelling/grammar errors.

Lol, I am native English.

Which part did you not understand?

 

[DarkLink]

Re: spelling nazism

I don't like when people correct my spelling and/or grammar. Its annoying, self righteous, and condescending.

There are a few rules, that when broken bother me, but even then I usually don't care enough to say anything. I still got what the person said.

A lot of the rules of grammar are stupid. As long as you get your point across, why should anyone care? I think in concepts.

Completely agree with all of this.

 

[Pyropyro]

Re: spelling nazism

Lol, I am native English.

Which part did you not understand?

I believe we're talking about INTP's and English posts.

 

[Polaris]

Re: spelling nazism

And here I was thinking this thread was about how to spell 'Nazism'. I tend to spell it as 'Naziism', but 'Nazism' is also correct.

/Assburger

 

[nexion]

Re: spelling nazism

I don't like when people correct my spelling and/or grammar. Its annoying, self righteous, and condescending.

There are a few rules, that when broken bother me, but even then I usually don't care enough to say anything. I still got what the person said.

A lot of the rules of grammar are stupid. As long as you get your point across, why should anyone care? I think in concepts.

Your 'point' is the sum total of the words you use.

 

[Base groove]

Re: spelling nazism

Spelling nihlism

 

[Lot]

Re: spelling nazism

Your 'point' is the sum total of the words you use.

You just wish you could be as free as me.

 

[Hawkeye]

Re: spelling nazism

And here I was thinking this thread was about how to spell 'Nazism'. I tend to spell it as 'Naziism', but 'Nazism' is also correct.

I prefer the compound noun Nazi-ism because I pronounce it this way and I think hyphens should be brought back into fashion.

 

[Polaris]

Re: spelling nazism

^ I totally agree

Which is why I like more phonetic languages - English spelling and grammar rules have so many exemptions, so it's very confusing for a non-native speaker like myself when, for example, attempting to pronounce a word I've only read in books, and not heard spoken. For example, it was only recently that I learnt how to pronounce 'hyperbole'.

Not what I expected at all

I actually prefer that people correct me, because I want to learn and I'm interested in many languages.

^ There's probably a mistake in here somewhere...

 

[DarkLink]

Re: spelling nazism

I believe we're talking about INTP's and English posts.

Oh?

 

[Hadoblado]

Re: spelling nazism

I feel like my role... nay! my occupation! ...is to be that bloke that helps dig up time capsules.

Relevant

 

[Pyropyro]

Re: spelling nazism

I feel like my role... nay! my occupation! ...is to be that bloke that helps dig up time capsules.

Relevant

Thread merge?

UPDATE: ok the merge is done now, thanks mods.