Meditation

[Seteleechete]

What are your thoughts of meditation?

I never realized how many random thoughts were floating in my head until I tried meditating... I hated it, ignoring all those thoughts in favour of my mantra was downright painful. I always was repulsed at the thought of clearing my mind and I can't say my 2-minute meditation session has changed that opinion. I just love having a constant buzzing of ideas to explore, meditation seems to be the very opposite. I am fairly good at calming down without actively meditating so I hardly need it for that.

 

[Sinny91]

Thoughts can become over-whelming and controlling, meditation is a way to regain that control.
It can be a difficult task.

 

[TBerg]

I credit enhanced focus and a semblance of an ability to overcome struggles to my meditation regimen. It does drive me crazy, but sometimes it just brings me a sense of peace I thought I had long forgotten.

 

[J-man]

After meditating, my thoughts are much clearer, more efficient, more brilliant. I rediscover the freedom of mind that I had as a kid. There is no superior state of mind; you can only go down from there. You may think that you want to keep holding on, but if you knew what you would gain you would not want to hold on.

 

[Yellow]

It depends on the definition and goal of meditation you're using. I'm a witch, I've also spent a good number of years studying Tai Chi, and I hung out at a [American]Taoist temple a lot as a teen/young adult (we all went through that phase as kids, right?). All of these practices demand meditation, and I used to get so frustrated by my utter inability to silence my mind.

In all three disciplines, however, I've gotten a resounding message that a silent mind is not really the point of meditation. The purpose of the mental aspects of meditation is to sever yourself from the material. To silence the outer world, let your thoughts come and go freely, and recede so deeply into yourself that your surroundings cannot penetrate your consciousness.

Most people have to silence their minds and use little gimmicks like focusing on breathing and the relaxation of muscles, etc., as the most efficient path to a decent meditative state.

But we're* lucky.

Hell, by this definition of "meditation", it's our resting state, and personally, the more time I spend being forced to attend to the external world of daily life, the less voluntary "meditation" becomes.

*assuming, of course, that I'm a typical INTP, and this is being read by someone who is also a typical INTP.

 

[Lot]

I meditate quite often. Not as much lately, but I'm quite familiar with it. The wandering thoughts is a good thing. Its what happens at first, and it tells you where your heart is focused. You'll start to notice reoccurring thoughts, and themes. That's where you know to start focusing. It's something that is clearly important to you. But that's just my take on it. A silent mind is good, and it has it's place. You won't get there over night. The dudes that go into 3 hour sessions that they come out of thinking it was only 15 mins, take years to get there. I personally don't have any desire to make it there.

I also like to take various drugs before meditation to help induce a trance. I can achieve trance without them, but it's much more fulfilling for me to have them. The trance state is where I do most of my work. This is where I do energy work, and sometimes get visions or have entity contact. It feels as if there is a complete shift in my mind and I often get vibrations in my forehead and the top of my head. My body will also start rocking back and forth or my upper half will rock into a circular pattern. On some rare occasions I will stand up and start stretching and doing tai chi/dance. A few times felt completely possessed.

The trance part isn't for everyone, but regular mediation is fantastic for getting to understand your own thinking and giving you more control of your thoughts.

 

[Polaris]

Thoughts can become over-whelming and controlling, meditation is a way to regain that control.
It can be a difficult task.

One very good reason to practice meditation. The difficulty seems to diminish as one practices, Imo. Like Yellow, I think there are many types of and uses for meditation. I have used it as a form of defragmenting of the mind, or re-programming of thought patterns through affirmations (the latter I have less success with and have thus given up on as it does not work for me). It is an effective way of reducing white noise, which may cause chaotic thinking and therefore trigger anxious mind states which then only serve to obscure effective and clear thinking when you need it.

I credit enhanced focus and a semblance of an ability to overcome struggles to my meditation regimen. It does drive me crazy, but sometimes it just brings me a sense of peace I thought I had long forgotten.

Yes, it does drive me crazy which is why I gave up on regular meditation for a while. But even when I meditate, or attempt to meditate for 10-15 minutes a day, that little moment of concentration seems to make all the difference for how the rest of the day pans out.

Peace of mind is an incredibly powerful state of mind.

In all three disciplines, however, I've gotten a resounding message that a silent mind is not really the point of meditation. The purpose of the mental aspects of meditation is to sever yourself from the material. To silence the outer world, let your thoughts come and go freely, and recede so deeply into yourself that your surroundings cannot penetrate your consciousness.

Most people have to silence their minds and use little gimmicks like focusing on breathing and the relaxation of muscles, etc., as the most efficient path to a decent meditative state.

Yes, the silent mind and the gimmicky stuff is not for everyone. I personally find breathing exercises useless, but am still able to silence my mind for longer periods of time. The latter has been something I have done more for the experiment. It doesn't really seem to make much of a difference to the practice of letting thoughts come and go.

What I have found more effective is to let go of resistance to external (and internal) stimuli. By that I mean I allow thoughts to enter my mind but I focus on watching the thoughts like an outsider - as from a more objective stance. If I view my thoughts as objects, and I then stop viewing these objects as "mine" it is easier to access a more peaceful state. To detach from the idea that the white noise kind of thoughts are significant and they are most likely the product of other voices which cause the sort of cognitive dissonance that can lead to anxiety.

The other focus I have is on sensory impressions. At the same time as focusing it is essential that the sensory impressions are not subject to judgement - by being completely alert to every sensory input, one can also view these from an objective viewpoint (although it still comes from the subject, the subject isn't influencing impressions with noise). So instead of struggling to separate myself from what is going on around me I focus on it intently without making active judgement (observation - not thinking). This has often become a very vivid experience and is similar to what I experience when I do wilderness walks - you kind of lose track of the self and instead become immersed with your surroundings. It is a very liberating experience, but also a highly effective state of being as one is more in touch with the intuitive self.

With repetition, this practice has put me in a re-programmed state where I find it easier to function in everyday situations that many would otherwise view as highly stressful.

 

[Seteleechete]

Ah well it just seems I like to do the very opposite of what seems to define meditation. Instead of trying to to focus/detach/concentrate/clear my mind I let go of my concious control over my mind and let my thoughts flow however they want my conciousness with them... unfortunately I usually fall asleep doing this as it's harder to do when I am not tired and my mind is more focused, but when I don't fall asleep I enter into a truly wonderful trance were I am not actually in control of how my thoughts flow. It's just that I feel like I am always holding an iron grip of my mind and letting go of that from time from to time is calming. Meditating and getting an even tighter grip of my mind seems like the very opposite of what I want.(I wouldn't by surprised if what I am doing is just some other form of meditation.)

The only 2 times I ever feel not in control is when I do this or dream.

 

[Redfire]

Can I get into Zen meditation without someone teaching me in person? That is: I always thought that I needed go to my local Zen center (it's quite big) to have guidance. It doesn't sound like something you can learn in a book. The whole point of Zen is the practice, not the theory.

If you think I can, what are some good resources?

I guess I already do some things which could be considered Zen, in a way. Like taking cold showers in winter and not reacting to the pain. If you can tolerate that pain, then the pain of working and studying becomes easier to handle. At least in my case.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

The purpose of the mental aspects of meditation is to sever yourself from the material. To silence the outer world, let your thoughts come and go freely, and recede so deeply into yourself that your surroundings cannot penetrate your consciousness.

Hell, by this definition of "meditation", it's our resting state,

I heartily agree
I think I spend most of my waking life in a trance. it can be a beautiful feeling at times, when noise from people and traffic is subdued and everything feels oddly peaceful. It can also be annoying eg. On most days when i go out and just as I'm about to open the car door, I start to wonder whether or not I switched off the lights or left the water tap running, so i go back to check, but the thing is...i keep having to recheck like 2 or 3 more times because my mind is somewhere else.

On the other hand, traditional meditation is not for me. I used to think I need it, because I am slow at connecting dots between thoughts and coming to conclusions, but with time...I came to accept that I'm a slow thinker and that there's nothing wrong with that.

 

[Yellow]

I heartily agree
I think I spend most of my waking life in a trance. it can be a beautiful feeling at times, when noise from people and traffic is subdued and everything feels oddly peaceful. It can also be annoying eg. On most days when i go out and just as I'm about to open the car door, I start to wonder whether or not I switched off the lights or left the water tap running, so i go back to check, but the thing is...i keep having to recheck like 2 or 3 more times because my mind is somewhere else.

On the other hand, traditional meditation is not for me. I used to think I need it, because I am slow at connecting dots between thoughts and coming to conclusions, but with time...I came to accept that I'm a slow thinker and that there's nothing wrong with that.

I relate to all of this too. I don't even keep my eyes in focus unless I really need then for something (I suppose it's a theoretical problem when I'm driving, but alas). My ears are shut off too. I have to hear something really unexpected to focus on it when I'm mentally elsewhere.

But it's not fully a trance, and I go back to thinking of it as meditation for this reason (and I know an older IxTP like this too): it's like I'm really taking everything in, but some other part of the mind had been delegated the duty of scanning the world, holding it for a few seconds in temporary storage, and then rejecting it, so that I can muse uninterrupted. But when some kind of threat, abnormality, or suspicious occurrence arises, my focus is instantly, magically there. My higher functions address the situation, and I either act, or immediately return to my mental drifting.

Also, slow thinkers unite!

 

[Seteleechete]

I have decided to try some non mantra meditation techniques, whenever I don't feel to lazy to do so. Those seem far more pleasant and inline with my ordinary thought processes. The mantra is kinda like having a unpleasant noise in my ears, it stops me from thinking and I loath that. I might get behind the idea of seeing my thoughts in a more detached way on the other hand(though I am already pretty detached).

 

[Seteleechete]

I just always tend to solve my mental dilemmas with logic, if I am anxious/depressed/stressed/emotional I analyse it, come to a conclusion and solution/why feeling that way is pointless and repeat the logic until the trouble disappears. Of course if logic can't solve the issue I am in deep trouble, like when I first started started acknowledging nihilism(granted I will probably never be the same energetic person as before I discovered it.) Meditating away a problem seems to much like just ignoring and never acknowledging it.

 

[INTPWolf]

I have some limited experience with meditation, but i dont think im doing it right and far prefer my own method. I quite often just sit back and relax, close my eyes and recreate the world around me to be whatever i want it to be, in great detail. I find while i'm trying to visually and spatially hold the image i dont have the capacity for many other thoughts.
Ill explain a little in detail. You know how it looks to see the back of your eyelids when you close them, well take that dark space and mentally push it outward. like your looking into a dark room, you don't see any boundaries but you can feel the depth. And within that depth you fill it in with whatever you can imagine. Start with one or two aspects, like the horizon or the boundaries of a room , and once you can sorta feel that they are there, move on by slowly adding more, but still holding on to all the other parts. Its challenging, but very rewarding as you can just put yourself anywhere, like accessing the dream editor in your mind. I have the most vivid and amazing dreams when i sleep too.

 

[TheAdditional1]

It's just that I feel like I am always holding an iron grip of my mind and letting go of that from time from to time is calming. Meditating and getting an even tighter grip of my mind seems like the very opposite of what I want.(I wouldn't by surprised if what I am doing is just some other form of meditation.)

That's what I try to go for. Sometimes being consciously aware and critically thinking is like wrapping a wool sweater around your head - you can breathe and you can live but it's constantly mildly uncomfortable and you want to let go. I love music (white/pink noise and varieties, or singular pure tones) that kind of flip your mind out a little bit and you lose yourself. I've been vaguely quietly wondering what drugs out there might help you lose your mind - not freak out but just let you lose your focus and enjoy things. (I haven't tried very many at all)


As far as just meditating however, I'm definitely a beginner. But one thing I tried a while ago is to close my eyes, let the imagination swirl - all the colors, vague images, darkness and neon swirls (that's what I see). I try to find a circle in there - any particular circular shape - and I try to focus on it. Sometimes holding a marble or something helps. But I do that, and focus on only one thing, and everything perpetually moves around it - before long it's amazing being in the eye of your own mental storm and your mind slowly lets everything else go. It's a good way to relax, destress and even slip into lucid dreaming if you're careful enough. Like floating in a pool, but for your mind.

These days I usually start too late to not fall asleep for the night. I need to get back to it.

 

[Sixup]

It's one of those things I think I should do...but haven't really developed it. Add it to the list...