Male dominance ritual on the forum

[TBerg]

On another note, how did Absurdity become so wise?

 

[Grayman]

What even is the point of this thread? You probably think you're helping, grayman, but im sure this thread makes her feel uncomfortable...it's an open invitation for people to witch hunt her and analyse her posts and attitude/presence in detail(reminiscent of what happened by the end of the thread where a newbie was picked on for using her real pic as avatar)

I know she approved of unlocking, but it doesn't look like this thread is going anywhere...and it's just very uncomfortable to read overall

It seems a different scenario is playing out here but I understand your fear. She is actually a very confident person and I don't think your opinion hurt her. My concern was that the forum itself holds fault in some ways for what has occured. Awareness of those faults and how they might clash with certain individuals gives us an opportunity to change. I think everyone has done well in this thread so far. If people could be this patient and understanding on the forums there would be less issues.

 

[Absurdity]

On another note, how did Absurdity become so wise?

Let's not make this about me.

In fact, let's not make any threads dedicated to discussing the conduct of any particular user.

 

[TBerg]

I like Absurdity: Neither praise nor scorn.

Fuck. I just violated the rule again.

 

[Puffy]

Oh sorry I added that in as an after thought wasn't intended against you in particular.

OMG LOOK WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO PUFFY YOU INCONSIDERATE MORONS

This is why we can't have nice things!! Everyone, look, you're cool. Just be cool. we're cool. okay?

Noooooo! !!


IM SORRY FOR RUINING EVERYTHING

l'mao.

AND SO YOU SHOULD BE

*tosses cape over shoulder and turns to make cool wizardly Ni exit*

*and continues browsing the internet*

 

[Yellow]

l'mao.

AND SO YOU SHOULD BE

*tosses cape over shoulder and turns to make cool wizardly Ni exit*

*and starts browsing on a different website*

[bimgx=350]http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gandalf-the-fabulous.jpg[/bimgx]

 

[redbaron]

Can't you see this is kind of a shit post as well (in a different way)? You've told me yourself that sometimes you can't be bothered to substantiate, but if you can't be bothered to substantiate then why bother posting beyond a flame-bait word like shit? If you don't like repeating yourself then just link to a more constructive post you've made.

Not intended as flame-bait, it's an internet forum. If you shit post you get shit on.

Sinny has said stuff like, "unfortunate that you're breathing" and shit that's pretty mean-spirited, but she gets a pass because she plays the card underhandedly. I also suspect the fact that she buries this stuff under mountains of drivel helps it go unnoticed. Her facade masks her hypocrisy and overall shittiness. Personally I consider that kind of forum contribution a pretty good approximation of 'shitposter'.

I mean, wishing someone would die or was dead is okay, but if somebody calls someone dumb or an idiot it's time for half the forum to make a fucking call to arms.

10/10 would slaughter blind sheep again.

 

[Jennywocky]

[bimgx=350]http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/gandalf-the-fabulous.jpg[/bimgx]

New John Hughes movie: "Puffy in Pink."


Gopher = Ducky

 

[bvanevery]

I will take my stab at a thread ender. Maybe it will even answer the OP's questions in a responsible way.

Anyone notice the constant clash of ego battles that is more common of the male?

I've been doing internet forums since 1993. I've mostly stayed away from the "slum" forums that don't even try to be civilized. I've been in plenty toasty forums, but at least people were mostly arguing their points from genuine interest, not just to yank people's chains.

Most forums I've participated in have mostly been males. Some have been almost entirely male with a few rare exceptions. Historically, I think men were on the internet arguing in forums, and women mostly weren't into that sort of thing. If women on average really did have less ego and testosterone, that tended to manifest as opting out of arguing as a form of recreation, I think.

I think the male:female ratio has gotten somewhat better in internet forums over the years, in some cases, but still very much reflects the tendency that beating each other up with words is a male drive.

I've seen a similar pattern in the Asheville Skeptics, although the ratio is better than most internet forums. There are noticeably more men than women in the group. I've never gotten a date from the group. However, women do show up. I think this is a combo of 1) long term couples, who have the same rational and political interests, 2) the occasional woman scientist, 3) we're civilized and not chasing them away.

That said, one regular's wife typically didn't attend and disparaged the group as "the atheist rant session". She had a point and I took that feedback to heart. The conversation sometimes gets stuck on religion because nobody did any homework to prepare something else. When that happens, I try to bring up some other skeptical topic - cryptozoology, medical beliefs, whatever. Just to remind people, by example, that there's other stuff to talk about and we can even prepare material for discussion.

Recently we've got a Presentation series, where someone has explicitly organized something in advance. I haven't been to one yet, it's fairly recent and I'm not quite back in Asheville, but I think it's an excellent move. I don't know if it'll have any noticeable effect on male:female ratios but it's good social engineering regardless.

I think people are more threatened by Sinny because she is a female and that puts the male ego at a greater risk.

What is the pecking order of this forum?

I don't. I think people have come to an INTP forum for very specific reasons, and there's a strong selection bias in this audience. I'm here because I'm a professional level or nearly compulsive arguer. Well let's just say if it was an Olympic sport I'd try out. I've been in so many forums where I pissed people off, just for doggedly pursuing thought to its logical conclusion, that I sought a place where people wouldn't ream and witch hunt me for it. And for the most part, I think people have mostly cut me the breaks here I was expecting. I think the INTP temperament really does mean something in that regard.

So pardon me if I think it's a complete lack of maturity to even be worrying about Sinny at all. I don't think most people here have "you're a woman" as one of their issues. If any do, they'll have to self-declare it. It's definitely not something I can observe or substantiate on my own.

In some other venues, "threatened by a woman" has been a more obvious dynamic. But since 1993 I've never really hung out in such places. Those are slums. This forum, like many others that exist, is a place where people with a genuine interest in a subject argue about it. Some happen to be women.

I got a B.A. in Sociocultural Anthropology from Cornell U. My classes were 1:1 male:female. So was the faculty. Everyone was an intellectual peer, and of course we were all unusually tuned to gender issues, compared to the rest of the populace. Hey, when you think you might make a career studying this kind of stuff, and advancing knowledge about it, you're not the usual kind of yahoo. I think this intellectual egalitarianism is also typical of the social sciences in general, but I didn't spend enough time in other branches to know that for sure.

A school the caliber of Cornell is also a selection bias. Wilting lilies probably didn't get in.

 

[PaulMaster]

I love when I'm in the middle of reading a post and it disappears

 

[bvanevery]

I love when I'm in the middle of reading a post and it disappears

It should reappear like a djinn. I think it happens when someone's editing their post.

 

[PaulMaster]

It should reappear like a djinn. I think it happens when someone's editing their post.

It does. Sometimes I try to find the edit.

 

[Sinny91]

I love when I'm in the middle of reading a post and it disappears

Eugh, annoying ent it.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Just curious: Does anyone really think Sinny91 doesn't enjoy all this attention? Or are you just saying that? If so, why?

 

[Sinny91]

I'd like to reply in depth, but this device which I'm on is not best, and I'm also supposed to be heading out to the pub shortly.. Plus I'm quite stoned.

Can't decide whether to just keep my thoughts to myself.. or take the time to reply properly...

And yea, these fickle tendencies are ingrained in me, they'll probably never change, despite what I say.

@Bronto... it suits my 'agenda', doncha know.

That was some funny banter towards the end, all your efforts are appreciated.

 

[TheManBeyond]

The difference between a good fuck and a bad one is that in the first u dont have kids.
Not like in this thread.

 

[Sinny91]

Okay, so I opted for a take away rather than the pub..

Starting from the top; about "people" being "annoyed" with me - I don't do dialogue with 'faceless' identities, got a problem? Spill it. I'm open to diplomacy. And believe it or not, there are quite a few people who enjoy my posts and encourage me to post more.

"Stating my opinions as evident truths"... don't we all do this to some degree? I have confidence in my opinions; what exactly is the negative consequence of this? And why is it something worth getting hung up on?

Are my sources credible? You tell me. There's hardly any discourse on the forum regarding my sources. My strongest amd truest sources fall on deaf ears, time after time. Most of you admit that you have little to no interest in the subject matter which I speak about most.. Frankly, I expect some of you to not understand. Anime on the otherhand, well he also knows the world of alternate perceptions. We're "on a wave length" as he puts it... What, do 'you' think your ultimate INTPness puts 'you' in a position to be an authority on whats credible and whats not - in relation to my field? 'You' don't even know the subject matter. 'You' dont know half of things which I do, which shape the opinions I have today. 'You' profess that 'you' are right and I am wrong, when 'you' dont even have the information.

As Pyropyro notes, I'm all open for admitting the unknowns, and in addition to that I'm all open having my opinion changed, its not my fault that so few of you manage to do that.

Sometimes I forget to clarify when I'm stating facts or speculating, but all anyone needs to do is just ask me, and I'll lay it out. Yea, I can be lazy in taking the time to elaborate in depth, but I always point to where to look. I'm not here to spoon feed people and perhaps that is why I appear to be "open minded but in a close minded way".

"Unwilling to demonstrate reason for her confidence".. what can I say, I was born this way. Aha. I seek the truth, I have integrity, you'll be amazed at how much confidence that gives a person.

"Shared belief the she doesn't Ti". And you wonder why I am skeptical of some of you. Nobody is in a better postion to type myself than I. I know full well that I am an INTP, whilst my type has zero relevance to the point, the *fact* is that all your opinions to the contrary are WRONG. But no doubt I'll forever be on the end of accusations in opposition. All I can say, is that if you profess to know the ins and outs of MBTI and you can't correctly type me, considering all that I have disclosed, then how can you expect me to have confidence in your over all other abilities? And its irrelevant if you disagree, because this is my position, nobody elses.

"Occams Razor". Lul. Occams Razor for some people is that aliens do not exist. Occams Razor for another person might be that aliens exist, are visiting and abducting us. Occams Razor for some is that it's all a government psy-op. Occams Razor for others is that the answer to the UFO/Alien phenomena is actually multifaceted, and rather complex.. can you see the point I'm making or need I explain it? .. I signed up to this forum expecting to meet perceptive people... perceptive is no longer a word which I would associate with the majority of this forumship.

"Sinny suggests complex explantions". And what exactly is the negative consequence of them being complex? Makes me laugh, some of you you accuse those 'complex' explantions of being being 'simplistic'.. where's the consistency and coherence in my detractors?

"ENTJ gone wrong".. lol, I have likened myself to an ENTJ gone wrong. This is the manifestation of INTP, 8w7.

"Number of posts and threads"... Well I agree with whoever it was who has said that I have made a "splash" .. and a bit of an entrance aha. Most of the topics on the forum are, like, dead-out. Don't you guys know how to breathe life into a forum? I've only been going easy on the conspiracy shit and you're all already loosing your minds. God forbid you all venture out into the real world, where reality its self is far stranger than anything which I am capable of dreaming up.

"Sinny might feel uncomfortable", thanks for the concern- but please, like this thread hasn't already happened before but dressed slightly differently. I wouldn't be me if I wasn't making waves. I provided my 8w7 thread for constructive purposes. Believe me, ya'll far from know me in the area's where it counts. I opened this thread to clear the air and give you all something juicy to tuck into. I'm a team player like that.. But beneath the gruff I walk alone, always have, always will. Whatevs, thats cool by me, 'I'm the true rugged individualist', Gopher was right; I have no 'social defence' against 'it' - 'it' is my ego defence, I have to live with it and so do you guys. (So long as I'm here)

 

[kora]

Just curious: Does anyone really think Sinny91 doesn't enjoy all this attention? Or are you just saying that? If so, why?

r u jealous

 

[Black Rose]

TL;DR

Giant long winded paragraph.

Spoiler

Yes I think that limiting posts to your own thread is favorable when it comes to voicing your thoughts because going off topic is annoying and leads to fights about ego. This is different when the topic focuses on, is the aspects of the threads main theme. That is not egoistic. Creating to many threads is also not favorable when they can be seen as limiting a topic to one thread. A topic that branches into too many threads must collapses into one thread, not spread out into multiple threads. This is a leaning challenge of what is acceptable and not acceptable for new forum members. Pushing the boundaries of what can be disused should be the main concern only when things get personal and not between a position being held. Positions should be open to criticism but not in the personal sense. It should not be about what the parties involved think of each other. It is why they hold a position that lacks explanations between people. That is the main issue. We hold that explanations are important not just conclusions. I think this divides people the most when it comes to Sinny. I do think that it is possible she may have Introverted intuition. Her conclusions follow from as Michael Pierce says is a line of best fit in a scatter plot. All evidence forms a conclusion based on where the data points to. Comparing Sinny with myself I may be the opposite because of Ne yet still reach the same conclusions. How I form my conclusions is not Ni. To me the data is open to what Sinny concludes as another path that is viable. Ni conclusions can also generate more than one scatter plot. The reason most people on this forum think I am Ni is because they think I form my conclusions as one path. What I am trying to do is look at all the angles of perspectives. So it is kind of random. All the interrelatedness fits inside me expounds every link and the assortments of those connections. In Ni types all evidence points to a conclusion. They focus onto a direction of inquiry. That is why it is difficult for her to show evidence because the conclusion has all data points other people fail to see. That is why I can see all the points/links Sinny is trying to make. We are both intuitives. What we know is not linear but parallel. The medium of our expression (text) takes time to share them. Other people must be willing to listen. That is why most people make threads about the topics most important to them. Threads seem hijacked because what we say has extrapolation, it is just not acknowledge as an opinion we have formed but rather an isolated projection with no supported inferences. When an inference and or an opinion is attacked, I know what the result is, (failure to listen). I have gotten over people not listening to me but it took me time. My contribution here gave me something to do when I was all alone in my apartment. The male / female dominance issue just glazes over the fact that some people just do not listen and some do listen. I can think of how Lyra had so many ideas and having people interfered with his personal threads. Every now and then people make threads where they have the space to be themselves. Being yourself is the hallmark of INTP forum.

 

[Brontosaurie]

@Bronto... it suits my 'agenda', doncha know.

That was some funny banter towards the end, all your efforts are appreciated.

"doncha know" what?

My post implies that it suits you, though 'agenda' is a strong word. "doncha know"...? Why are you responding to things you haven't read?

r u jealous

No, i've had my fair share of limelight.

 

[Kuu]

Usually for me it comes down to Occam's. Sinny suggests a complex explanation for a situation that is already explained by mechanisms that are widely accepted and understood.

I find that many times Occam is invoked improperly (if not most times). It is clear when people drop it without actually addressing the matter at hand (because ugh why would I waste my time) and is thought-terminating rather than thought-provoking. Often it is in fact a fallacy, be it of cherry picking (your theory is unnecessarily complex: if we dismiss your evidence, the simple theory works just fine!) and appeal to authority (your evidence/theory can be dismissed without investigation because Mr Genius ® and Big Organization says it is wrong/stupid, and they're obviously never wrong!). When dealing with fringe / controversial / "conspiracy theory" strawmanning and ad-hominem is also a huge issue (Oh you think X? You must also be one of those that says Y and believes in Z! LOL You're obviously crazy and I can ignore everything you have to say now). You even brought this up yourself (half-jokingly i.e. half-seriously...?).

Even Occam's razor itself is frequently used as nothing but an appeal to Occam's authority on logic. Occam's razor! I win, you lose!

Such unsubstantiated claim is in fact the opposite of reason and skepticism.

Of course, most people on the internet don't have the time and/or knowledge and/or resources to do their own research that confirms or falsifies any claims, so all sides end up appealing to one authority or another: "respectable" or "quack". If one is truly honest, most of the time one can only take a position of inconclusiveness without further information. (But where's the drama/fun in that?)

To genuinely pursue a fringe topic with intellectual honesty requires a considerable degree of mental and emotional fortitude, to not succumb to prejudice, group-thought and appeal to authority both for and against the matter, but listen only to reason and the facts even in the face of ridicule, outright hostility and career ruin. The history of science has multiple examples of the arrogance of individuals and organizations threatened by new information they refuse to accept; until they are swamped by the new information, or they die and their obstruction ends...

Quasicrystals is a recent example of an eminent scientist decrying the "impossible" to eventually be proven wrong. And nobel prize for the one who endured two decades of ridicule. (I read a good article recently, but alas I've misplaced it, so here's this). Unfortunately not everyone gets to live long enough to be vindicated. Some men are born posthumously.

Seriously contemplating that what you've believed to be so certain could be absolutely wrong is a terrifying and humbling experience that self-declared "open minded" people should engage in more often.

Sure, this doesn't prove anything anyone argues here, other than the fact that even the most accomplished thinkers can also be enormously arrogant and utterly wrong. For a concluding statement, see my sig.

 

[Sinny91]

@ Bronto.

?? What ??

What haven't I read? You and RedBaron are two of the most tiresome people I've ever encountered, have you not got lives beyond this forum or something?

Excellent summary Kuu, I was just about to address the same.

 

[redbaron]

@ Bronto.

?? What ??

What haven't I read? You and RedBaron are two of the most tiresome people I've ever encountered, have you not got lives beyond this forum or something?

I'm a no-lifer because I make about three (usually short) posts per day on one forum? Meanwhile you make about eight per day and have even mentioned that you frequent other forums.

Also I think we should have some basic standard of decorum - just because you don't like someone doesn't mean you can just start insinuating they have no life. That's some herd behaviour right there.

 

[Brontosaurie]

@ Bronto.

?? What ??

What haven't I read? You and RedBaron are two of the most tiresome people I've ever encountered, have you not got lives beyond this forum or something?

You responded as if i "didn't know" that you were enjoying the attention... Which was the opposite of what i wrote. Either that or your use of the phrase "dont'cha know" is complete gibberish.

Talking about lives beyond this forum, let's compare postcount/time ratios? Lol.

 

[Sinny91]

You keep escalating shit, any need to witch hunt me given the fact it would be preferable for all if we just ceased interacting?

You're becoming like the wasp which ruins lunch on a hot summers day by buzzing around the colourful food and drinks, interrupting people whilst they're trying to have a nice time.

 

[Kuu]

...and that's when this thread must come to a close.

Speaking of post count, what a way to celebrate my 3000.