Magic & Mad Science

[Cognisant]

They're essentially the same thing.

The stereotypical wizard character is based upon an archaic scientist, only in recent centuries has scientific knowledge become so codified, in the past exploitable phenomena was discovered by experimentation and put to use without being fully understood.

For example gunpowder existed long before anything like modern chemistry and for thousands of years metallurgy was simply a matter of trial and error, nobody knew why certain alloys were stronger or could be honed to a sharper edge, that's just how they were.

In fiction magic is dangerous, unpredictable, which is exactly the problem with mixing random compounds or going into battle with a sword made of a yet unproven alloy, or drinking a medicinal concoction when nobody really knows what the active ingredient is or exactly what effect it will have on your body.

So how could I design a game around the theme of using something without fully understanding it? I want the player to feel like a wizard or mad scientist, I want them to feel the thrill of discovery coupled with the fear of the yet unpredictable forces they're playing with.

 

[Seteleechete]

Using randomness(% chance for a variety of outcomes) in some way seems like the way to go, the rest depends on what type of game you make.

If it's more of a story driven one time playthrough game, you can just play with people's minds by making things do unexpected things on purpose.

 

[Urakro]

So how could I design a game around the theme of using something without fully understanding it? I want the player to feel like a wizard or mad scientist, I want them to feel the thrill of discovery coupled with the fear of the yet unpredictable forces they're playing with.

Same thought I occasionally play around with.

Haven't worked on anything solid, though I'm assuming that whatever system it'll be, it will be made up of simple building blocks which provides a massive variety of configurations. You probably know what I mean, I'd liken it to the elements of the periodic table. Simple blocks with predefined properties, limitations and rule-sets, though not too obviously laid out so that the player can explore and make their own assumptions of how it works.

I'd say it would also be better that the person didn't have direct access to the lower-level of these blocks, but can work and analyze with the synthesized products of the higher layers.

I also thought about madness itself. Maybe something like a mental power or ability that some played with but few are able to control, thus losing their mind to madness. Those who manage to clamp down and maintain the turbulent chaos of this energy being able to change things in reality to an unbelievably great extent. I thought of making it a catch-22, as the more it's utilized, the more violent the beast that leads into losing the player's mind. So there'd be AI or players who are simple and don't bother with it, then the crazies and paranoids who tried but couldn't cognitively make sense of it or slid down it's trap too boldly. Then the higher level players who are more cautious with it and take the time to critically reason with the power.

 

[Cognisant]

In terms of getting away with an exploit I like how in ES:Oblivion once you can start making your own spells you can discover things like (Drain Health 100pts 1sec) which feels like a great discovery but doesn't really break the game because it only works on enemies with less than 100pts of health. So for about three levels it's the instant death spell, then it becomes the finishing spell, then later still you're casting it on target with a 50ft burst radius because rats and mudcrabs don't qualify as enemies anymore.

In terms of risk the first time you use your assumed instant death spell on a bandit with 105pts of health comes as a rude and memorable shock.

I also liked the potion crafting experimentation mechanic in Skyrim, I really felt like some poor novice alchemist mixing everything I could get my hands on just to learn how to cure disease or to inflict a little extra damage on the enemy, then later on I'm walking around with a humble dagger I reserved for anyone who requires an education in paralysis and pain.

But there wasn't much risk, except for the risk of losing valuable ingredients.

 

[Cognisant]

The Consuming Shadow did magic and madness pretty well, you clicked runes in series to cast spells so in theory you could cast any spell from the start of the game except the combinations are randomized each play-through and if you cast the wrong spell...

Casting spells doesn't cost mana, it costs sanity, the more sanity you lose the less trustworthy your character's senses become, it even effects the menus with the usual buttons being swapped with one that takes you to a suicide prevention minigame.
i.e. if you lose your character kills himself.

 

[Rook]

Hmmm.....I prefer games with permanent death(though I have not been playing avidly these past two years).


The insanity-based magic system seems legitimate, magical use affecting physical strength, alertness or even hydration and terror may also work, with different types of spells affecting the stats in different proportions. (Flame based = character needs to drink more water, Necromantic based = effects on sanity and terror; though the character's personality may negate some of these psychological effects)

Coming back to permanent death, permanent effects would be more fitting for what you seek, say necrosis of the skin, loss of hearing, paralysis of a limb, cataracts, a limp walk, hallucinations etc.

By adding such effects to the character, the mental and physical scarring of their profession is imprinted throughout the game, with a sane acolyte becoming a raving master after various mishaps or success-based ailments.

Hmmmm.....for instance, a novice alchemist may have a chance to spill a potion, with that potion's effects enacting themselves upon the spilled on area or person (hand burned by acid, temporary paralysis, even more advanced effects such as morphing, out-of-body experiences and mutations)

So whatever the character does, there is always a risk to their person, perception and sanity.
After some time of play, they may have the appearance of a leper, and everywhere they go they see humans with rabbit-heads, bleeding rocks and talking trees.

They may also act independently from the player now and then, casting random spells, attacking the ruler of the realm or simply jumping off a cliff while laughing manically.
However, such actions depend on how far you want to go with the representation of madness.

Spoiler

Sunless Sea, a steampunkish game set in Fallen London and the Unterzee, has permanent death, gradual increases and decreases of terror based on surroundings and nature of happenings. If you and your crew gain a large amount of terror, the crew begins to murder one another, and you may hallucinate new crew members or jump into the embrace of sea-nymphs, ending the game.
You can also resort to cannibalism to stay alive if food runs out.

Such actions are chance based, with certain character attributes improving or decreasing the chances. The game also has an interesting story and brilliant artwork, which adds to the player's immersion into the eldritch and macabre.

 

[Cognisant]

I'm not really a fan of random events/outcomes unless I'm the one to initiate it, if I'm playing Pathfinder and find a flask of Strange Fluids I'd drink it and accept the consequences, if it completely crippled my character I'd enjoy roleplaying it until I'm killed.

But having random stuff happen to my character randomly seems potentially frustrating, if I'm really invested in a character and suddenly doing something completely ordinary causes them to be crippled I'd be a tad cross.

Still I like where you're going with this, say if I roll a 1 on the concentration check when casting a spell I'd then have to roll on the wild magic table and the result of that might be helpftul, or completely screw me, either way what's important is that I chose to use magic (assuming my character can do other stuff competently).

But that's not what I was getting at in the OP, the consequences of using a phenomena without really understanding it aren't random, they're unseen pitfalls that perhaps could have been avoided by diligent experimentation.

 

[Seteleechete]

There are many magic/world systems thought up. One way to go about it is make a few dozens "rules" tables with dozens of choices each then randomly select "rules" for how the world should work. With each rule selected you can remove rules that would be contradictory and pick another rule until you have sufficient.

Then generate a simulated world(something like a arc survival/minecraft mixture) based on the rules chosen without(or maybe precisely telling them what rules are chosen, and see how you deal with it, actually that sounds more fun and more in line with what you want) telling the player what "rules" affect the world. You can also make puzzles that give effects based on this concept.

Like there exists gravity, water is now acidic you are a being that eats fire ect..