Lifelong Happiness

[QSR]

An interesting article in the Atlantic this month. It's pretty long, and has a video of the guy who did the study. But if you don't have time to read the whole thing, read page 3.

Some of the conclusions he's made thus far:

Relationships make the most difference in finding happiness (no surprise there, since every psychological study seems to make this point. No wonder there's so much depression among INTPs)

What allows people to work, and love, as they grow old? By the time the Grant Study men had entered retirement, Vaillant, who had then been following them for a quarter century, had identified seven major factors that predict healthy aging, both physically and psychologically.


Employing mature adaptations was one. The others were education, stable marriage, not smoking, not abusing alcohol, some exercise, and healthy weight. Of the 106 Harvard men who had five or six of these factors in their favor at age 50, half ended up at 80 as what Vaillant called “happy-well” and only 7.5 percent as “sad-sick.” Meanwhile, of the men who had three or fewer of the health factors at age 50, none ended up “happy-well” at 80. Even if they had been in adequate physical shape at 50, the men who had three or fewer protective factors were three times as likely to be dead at 80 as those with four or more factors.



What factors don’t matter? Vaillant identified some surprises. Cholesterol levels at age 50 have nothing to do with health in old age. While social ease correlates highly with good psychosocial adjustment in college and early adulthood, its significance diminishes over time. The predictive importance of childhood temperament also diminishes over time: shy, anxious kids tend to do poorly in young adulthood, but by age 70, are just as likely as the outgoing kids to be “happy-well.” Vaillant sums up: “If you follow lives long enough, the risk factors for healthy life adjustment change. There is an age to watch your cholesterol and an age to ignore it.”


The study has yielded some additional subtle surprises. Regular exercise in college predicted late-life mental health better than it did physical health. And depression turned out to be a major drain on physical health: of the men who were diagnosed with depression by age 50, more than 70 percent had died or were chronically ill by 63. More broadly, pessimists seemed to suffer physically in comparison with optimists, perhaps because they’re less likely to connect with others or care for themselves.

 

[snowqueen]

There is a really interesting TED talk someone sent me a link to about what makes people happy - I will try and find it,

wrt the stats on mental ill health - research in UK has shown that if you have a mental health problem you are much less likely to be taken seriously when you present with physical problems - they are ascribed to psychosomatic causes. You are also less likely to then contest this. This leads to underdiagnosis or late diagnosis of fatal conditions.

 

[Mud~Eye]

The subject of happiness has been on my mind a lot, lately. I almost started a thread for the first time, but I'm glad someone beat me to it. I'll be very interested in what ends up here, as I am particularly curious about how other people view happiness and what they do to attain or strive for it.

I met this man at the beach today, and he brought it up, too. I'll include what he said, because I think it has substance. He said something I've heard a hundred times, but it must have been the way he said it, like he really believed it. He said, and I'll paraphrase, happiness is found in the moments. If you're always thinking "I'll be happy when..." you'll never be happy. He said you have to really be in the moments, and experience the pleasure right then. We were at the beach, so of course, he was like, "the waves, the warmth, the seagulls, the kids playing...". It makes sense, and like I said, I've heard it before, but there was something genuine about his demeanor when he spoke on this.

He said he was 50 years old. He looked late 30's early 40's. He had his 4 year old daughter with him (or so he claimed), he talked about some of his life experiences, and mentioned that he's pretty physically active (surfing, hiking, etc...). He looked it, too. I thought of the Harvard Study. I had not read it entirely by then, but it seemed he had a few things going for him that were along the same lines, including his social ability, which he seemed to do with ease.

You know I had to ask, "So, what about the moments that suck"? And, he said, "Well, that's when you let you're mind go somewhere else." Which conjured up images of Uncle Remis and the Braer Rabbit.

 

[The Fury]

Enjoying an 18 year old bottle of Jameson's and a steak dinner while watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on a HD TV.

Now that's the secret to happiness.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Enjoying an 18 year old bottle of Jameson's and a steak dinner while watching Monty Python's Flying Circus on a HD TV.
Now that's the secret to happiness.

Playing Doom III for the first time with a six pack of Smirnoff double black at about 11pm.
Screaming out obscenities as loud as my lungs would let me
If only I had some aged* pizza, it would have been perfect.

1*: The practice of keeping meaty pizza in the fridge for a few days before reheating it.

 

[Anthile]

Happiness is an illusion. Striving for illusions makes you unhappy.

 

[Concojones]

[...] He said, and I'll paraphrase, happiness is found in the moments. If you're always thinking "I'll be happy when..." you'll never be happy. He said you have to really be in the moments, and experience the pleasure right then. We were at the beach, so of course, he was like, "the waves, the warmth, the seagulls, the kids playing...".

Yeah... So true... ! (btw, that guy might have been an N )

I find I have a tendency to make a lot of plans (possibly an IN trait). The thing is, you can be happy in the meantime.

Somebody once said: "live every day as if it were your last one" (in other words, try to make the most of every day).

 

[Kianara]

Somebody once said: "live every day as if it were your last one" (in other words, try to make the most of every day).

Except, if I lived every day as if it were my last, I would never get my novel written.

On a somewhat more serious note, reading that article (the whole thing) yesterday resulted in an interesting reaction. Whenever I see or read something that involves following people's lives over long periods of time, I go into a strange mental state, possibly a temporary state of existentialism.

After reading that article, I felt the immediate knee-jerk reaction to withdraw. Just... pull back from everything and everyone in my life for a week or two and rethink myself again. I managed to push though it and not clock out, but that desire is still there, very remnicient of my depression last year where I just checked out of my life.

It's times like this that I absolutely hate being myself. Being so extremely able to (all but) completely detach and see my own life through my own cold eyes, the eyes through which I view other people's lives with no kindness spared and no illusions maintained.

 

[Latro]

Except, if I lived every day as if it were my last, I would never get my novel written.

On a somewhat more serious note, reading that article (the whole thing) yesterday resulted in an interesting reaction. Whenever I see or read something that involves following people's lives over long periods of time, I go into a strange mental state, possibly a temporary state of existentialism.

After reading that article, I felt the immediate knee-jerk reaction to withdraw. Just... pull back from everything and everyone in my life for a week or two and rethink myself again. I managed to push though it and not clock out, but that desire is still there, very remnicient of my depression last year where I just checked out of my life.

It's times like this that I absolutely hate being myself. Being so extremely able to (all but) completely detach and see my own life through my own cold eyes, the eyes through which I view other people's lives with no kindness spared and no illusions maintained.

This is getting freaking eerie...but then admittedly this post is somewhat vague, so I guess I'm seeing similarities and making them seem more similar than they actually are. Still, at first glance this is eerily similar to me.

 

[echoplex]

Thanks for posting this. I read the entire article and it was fascinating. It's interesting that the subject of the article was someone so knowledgeable and yet so flawed.

I more or less agree with the conclusion that human relationships are the most reliable factor for long-term happiness. I'm too young to know that by experience, but it seems to make sense. This can be difficult for INTPs who are both shy (usually) and fiercely independent. We may believe we can live perfectly well without close relations with others and we may realize later in life that we were horribly wrong to believe that.

What's also interesting is how unpredictable happiness ultimately was in this study. I think that everyone has "demons", even the annoyingly happy folks. The article touched on the idea that it's how we deal with adversity that predicts happiness more so than how much adversity we have. In fact, one might take from the article that those who experience much adversity early in life may actually have an advantage. It reminds me of how those who get alot of colds and other germs early in life end up with a stronger immune system as adults. Perhaps a few "emotional colds" early in life prepare us to deal with an onslaught of troubles later on.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Somebody once said: "live every day as if it were your last one" (in other words, try to make the most of every day).

It should say: "Live every day like it's your first one, figuratively" (in other words live with hope, passion and an open mind).

 

[Kianara]

This is getting freaking eerie...but then admittedly this post is somewhat vague, so I guess I'm seeing similarities and making them seem more similar than they actually are. Still, at first glance this is eerily similar to me.

What similarities do you see, Latro?

 

[Latro]

What similarities do you see, Latro?

Questioning "live everyday as if it were your last" due to that attitude's inability to achieve long-term goals and its tendency toward destructive narcissistic hedonism.

Random bouts of unpleasant existential "depression" (sorta) catalyzed by some sort of event (although not normally reading articles like that one).

Experiencing periods of withdrawal in which I ponder if I should change x or y. Arguably I've been doing this subconsciously for years.

Disliking my (admittedly useful) ability to detach myself from things.

Essentially that whole post.

 

[Concojones]

Somebody once said: "live every day as if it were your last one" (in other words, try to make the most of every day).

Except, if I lived every day as if it were my last, I would never get my novel written.

I dare to contradict that. Wouldn't you be delighted with whatever chapter you could finish today?

It should say: "Live every day like it's your first one, figuratively" (in other words live with hope, passion and an open mind).

Cog, I can appreciate what you say, but I definitely prefer "last day". I once had a serious accident (I miraculously survived with just a few scratches) and I can tell you: Steve jobs is right: there is no stronger motivator than death.

 

[Razare]

More broadly, pessimists seemed to suffer physically in comparison with optimists, perhaps because they’re less likely to connect with others or care for themselves.

Ahh... shit.

 

[Citizen X]

Soon we will have Japanese companion babe-robots and designer feelings uploaded directly into your nervous system via some chip. You could even fool yourself by having a "companion feeling" even if you are a loner tourist dying of a meth overdose under a grimy bridge in Bangkok

There you've got it, eternal happiness, and without any commitment at all.

After being out of an eight years old relationship, I can tell you: Overrated.

 

[snowqueen]

I have finally found the TED talk by Dan Gilbert that I wanted to post - you have to watch it to the end. It's really very interesting. I am also in awe of speakers who can do talks like this!

 

[Enne]

Hmmm...I'm not sure if I've ever met a happy adult.

 

[snowqueen]

I would say that on average I'm a happy adult. I have dips now and then but on balance I am a very positive and happy individual. I was pretty miserable in my childhood and in my 20s but since I turned 40, despite some romantic disappointments, I am happy.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Soon we will have Japanese companion babe-robots

I can just imagine it now; a roboticist walks onto the talk-show stage leading a beautiful young woman by the hand and declares "it's a robot...", then to everybody's shock he twirls it around like a dance partner then performs some very graphic kissing for the cameras. Moments later he pulls back, sticks out is tongue, plucks something off it and while smiling broadly holds it up and says "...PEZ dispenser".

 

[QSR]

Thanks queen that's a really interesting video. It sort of says that making decisions early and often can lead to a happier life than leaving things open-ended. This is pretty hard for an INTP to do, at least for me. I know I struggle with picking a direction and going with it, but I realize that when I do, I am often happier as a result. I may try to make this sort of adjustment in my life.

I just went through an exercise this weekend where you get basically 2 days to create a project. It's an eye-opening experience to see what you can really do if you work towards a common goal with a team in very short order.

 

[snowqueen]

Thanks queen that's a really interesting video. It sort of says that making decisions early and often can lead to a happier life than leaving things open-ended. This is pretty hard for an INTP to do, at least for me. I know I struggle with picking a direction and going with it, but I realize that when I do, I am often happier as a result. I may try to make this sort of adjustment in my life.

Well it is the difference between P and J isn't it? I wonder if that explains why there are so many depression threads here. I just popped over to the INTJ forum and looked at the thread called 'Why are INTJs always depressed?' and the vast majority of responses are 'we aren't, we just look that way, but I'm basically optimistic and happy'!! While our depression threads always seem to bomb into = yes me too, yes I battle with that, yes.

I just went through an exercise this weekend where you get basically 2 days to create a project. It's an eye-opening experience to see what you can really do if you work towards a common goal with a team in very short order.

That is why I try to do projects with teams - I used to avoid team work because of the group dynamics which I found difficult, but actually I work best in teams with time-limited projects and I find it much more fulfilling and also have learned a lot from other people. I am putting in a bid for a large research project and I put together some ideas and got two people to review them and as I expected they loved the ideas but said it was totally impractical in scope but I knew that would happen so I asked them to give me a better idea of what was achievable and ended up with a good bid. I used to think people were thwarting my plans and feel resentful but now I realise they know how the real world works much better than I do.

Have you come across the Belbin team roles? The idea is that instead of recruiting simply on the basis of intelligence and skills, you also need to consider the mix of personalities in terms of what they bring to a team. I'm sure there is an MBI element to the test. Unsurprisingly I come out as 'Plant', with my secondary function in a team being 'Resource Investigator'.

Those are clearly NTP roles