Levels of Awareness

[Black Rose]

1) what do i need
2) what do they need
3) how do others view others needs
4) how do others view me in my culture
5) other cultures exist and view things in different ways
6) the way we view things determines how we perceive culture (objectivity is relative to perception)
7) there is a reason we have different views
8) we see what those reasons are and how to accommodate others by them
9) I understand or see how my perceptions allow me to view how my perceptions affect my view of others perceptions.

LEVELS (Basic Version)​

 

[EndogenousRebel]

One of those things that is only useful to look over a couple times and not for too long.

It's core idea is that it shows a path to cosmopolitan thought, but if you read into it isn't that useful really. This discrete abstract knowledge is poisonous by itself. There is no foundation and it's just floating in midair.

I've had some nice discussion about it with friends though. My final conclusion from it was that at the highest tier, the people are in a state of catatonia, unable to really act on anything. They're just so enlightened and detached from any outcome at such a deep level that they can't bring themselves to do anything.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Its people thoughts. I dont think they are that fundamental.

 

[Black Rose]

The way I would describe level 9 thinking is as a meta-model of models.

It does not mean endless thinking about thinking about thinking, it has a starting point:

I exist, I have a model of the world and I have a model of myself, and finally, I have a model that models exist in myself and others. I do not need anything more because I then I do become entangled in an endless loop.

I am not trying to think of all the ways people think at my level I can just say, hey dude we both know we both understand models.

Given I try and understand intelligence as my career I have developed some mathematical understanding of self-modeling entities. It is not only endless speculations I can draw and write down descriptions.

The starting point is to have an equilibrium.

That equilibrium can have many or few variables but it maintains itself.

All other development is centered on learning to keep a stable equilibrium.

It then learns how to construct systems of systems, and what subsystems exist.

Once an organism realizes it has such a mechanism it can develop a meta-model.

That all systems are a subsystem of a self and that other systems as selves have a core subsystem self. Other minds exist.

A mind can then try to create other minds by understanding what a mind is.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

1) what do i need
2) what do they need
3) how do others view others needs
4) how do others view me in my culture
5) other cultures exist and view things in different ways
6) the way we view things determines how we perceive culture (objectivity is relative to perception)
7) there is a reason we have different views
8) we see what those reasons are and how to accommodate others by them
9) I understand or see how my perceptions allow me to view how my perceptions affect my view of others perceptions.

LEVELS (Basic Version)​

bingo

 

[ZenRaiden]

Generally 1 and 2 seem most easily relatable and the most time I spend in.
When it comes to perceptual stuff I view things differently as others and others view them differently so that is given.

Then I can see that culture and perception are often complex issue.
On surface level easy thing, but the more granular and detailed things get, that is more inside the culture you are imbued the more complex behavior emerges.

When it comes to viewing me in relation to others and my perception to others I can certainly think about this, but I often get tangled up and lost.

Most times I often wonder where my perceptions are genuinely mine.
Which perceptions are force of habit, and which come form the intellect and feeling and which are result of personality and subsequent biases that derive from it.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

My final conclusion from it was that at the highest tier, the people are in a state of catatonia, unable to really act on anything.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I wrote that because these super enlightened people are probably detached from most things. Even their own psyche would be something that they take into account as a dynamic system with inputs and outputs.

You need these "lower" levels of awareness to really push yourself in a direction because otherwise you are completely disillusioned from doing most things.

Awareness comes with a heavy toll.

 

[Black Rose]

I wrote that because these super enlightened people are probably detached from most things. Even their own psyche would be something that they take into account as a dynamic system with inputs and outputs.

You need these "lower" levels of awareness to really push yourself in a direction because otherwise you are completely disillusioned from doing most things.

Awareness comes with a heavy toll.

I like to joke with my mom. That she is a human potato. She has been mentally disabled her whole life and this is a cationic state based solely on a "Lack" of basic self-awareness. Not even enlightened persons have it all together but they do seem to function above the "lack" normal people have.

When people lack what they need then acting based on it can only mean an unhappy life most times. That is basically the bottom tier. Once lack is no longer an issue then people become effective at changing things. That seems okay but it is also based on lack, a person must act when they need to, to effect any particular lack in "the system". But then existential crisis arises and this existential crisis is what I experienced when I was 12 and 19.

At 12 I was at a movie specifically Pokemon 2000 and at the end of the movie I was at home and in bed awake in the darkness. I wondered why did the movie end, why do things end. What was this feeling when the movie theater as everyone left and the credits played and I was alone in the dark in bed? It was empty.

At 19 I was in the same position. I graduated high school and had no plans for anything after that. It was all empty, the things I had done meant nothing. And I felt that way because I never finished my school a.i. project.

My whole life I felt empty after finishing video games, watching movies, and reading fiction books. Sometimes it felt nice to be empty but other times it felt wrong. It was to me mysterious.

People will always feel incomplete without the need to do things, once people feel incomplete they look into the past for answers. They look into their history. It creates nostalgia. It takes them to a place where things were complete and seemed better. because at those moments they were doing things, they were in the moment. They were doing important things and those memories are all that sustains them in the present. Things that mattered then when they no longer do now.

Once a person wakes up to the consideration that what matters is not something about lack and when they realize that doing things is not what really matters then they may despair or find a new purpose. It happens at ages 30, 40, 50 and 60. Maybe running a business until you get to be a billionaire CEO really does not matter. Being a celebrity does not matter. Sex becomes empty, food becomes empty, gossip becomes empty. Drugs do not matter. Addiction, hopelessness.

Peace love joy happiness friendship, they all happen to be about things modern people lack at the highest level. and what do you get when people happen to be unable to get those no matter how many resources they acquire? and what happens when a friend dies. My guess is that people need things, they need people and they need purpose and understanding.

Catatonia is a state that happens when a person cannot overcome a trauma.. Thinking about thinking about thinking creates many reinforced traumas and helplessness. But then once you get past that you can overcome and integrate them. The only problem is not that understanding exists but that the process is not understood, that as wisdom grows you become less biased bigoted narcissistic, and overall less corrupted. It is naive to think that endless loops are wisdom and it is naive to think that we can grow without some realization that our needs cannot be met with only selfish ends in mind. The loss of identity brings with it the reflection of the innermost being.

It is our identity that is at stake at stage three.
What is it we, with our lives, that truly matters?

 

[EndogenousRebel]

That's a funny joke.

On the note of that childlike mentality you had. Where that movie ends and yet you go home and ultimately have an existential crisis. That's relatable.

I think it does come from over thinking and fixing on abstract ideals that aren't applicable.

But anyways. Anything beyond level 8 and beyond is literally impossible to do anything but hold this information in your head.

Besides having the requirement that you understand how the genome relates to your body and mind, it just becomes an a brief moment in time where you can't do anything but think.

It's like people say they want to integrate their shadow.

Which seems like an endless and fruitless task that ends with your brain scrambled

 

[ZenRaiden]

I subscribe to the idea that emotions, intellect and awareness are necessary to be unified, but language of emotions and intellect and awareness in our minds are different.
Its like having three different dimensions to your being that can have different intensity and quality to them, but make up a whole person.

So intellect leads to factual awareness, emotion is psychological connection with self and others type of awareness, and awareness as meta concept is a type of relational knowing or having the ability to connect.

So if we look at a movie like Alien, the creature has all three qualities, but is inherently configured to be a killing machine.

Their emotions are connected to the Hive. This idea of Aliens with Hive mind comes from Starship Troopers and sci fi novel, and the guy who wrote it was probably sort of drawing on the idea of cold war, that is communism and western ideals.
I think his view of commies was that they are like ants.
He was trying to illustrate that human individuality matters, and depriving people of it makes them like insects.

But individual psychology, ergo individuation the ability to feel separate from others and be at peace with one self is hard psychological process.
If one experiences being one with oneself too early in life the burden of individuation is hard.
It feels then hard to deal with it on emotional level. Almost crushing weight if emotions aren't strong enough.

Same with awareness. The awareness of higher levels can be a burden for someone who is not ready for it or has the circumstances to make use of it.
A person needs strength to make use of such awareness.
A lot of it I would argue requires also personal development. Development cannot happen in vacuum. It has to be nourished.

So I totally agree that too much of awareness which I think is separate from raw intellect and emotions, requires a foundation without which the awareness just becomes a crushing weight.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Maybe running a business until you get to be a billionaire CEO really does not matter. Being a celebrity does not matter. Sex becomes empty, food becomes empty, gossip becomes empty. Drugs do not matter. Addiction, hopelessness.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I think his view of commies was that they are like ants.

the american military doesn't allow for much "individual expression" or "autonomy"

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

That's a funny joke.

On the note of that childlike mentality you had. Where that movie ends and yet you go home and ultimately have an existential crisis. That's relatable.

I think it does come from over thinking and fixing on abstract ideals that aren't applicable.

But anyways. Anything beyond level 8 and beyond is literally impossible to do anything but hold this information in your head.

Besides having the requirement that you understand how the genome relates to your body and mind, it just becomes an a brief moment in time where you can't do anything but think.

It's like people say they want to integrate their shadow.

Which seems like an endless and fruitless task that ends with your brain scrambled

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Awareness comes with a heavy toll.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Most times I often wonder where my perceptions are genuinely mine.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS

 

[birdsnestfern]

I liked the video on Shadow work, that was nice.

And....not instantly pushing away emotion, actually letting yourself feel safe to feel anger, love, grief, or other strong feelings is important too. Also, finding ways to express yourself and what is important to YOU and tell the world about it. Knowing you are not flawed for your feelings, but need to find outlets for yourself like expression. Ask for what you want, let people know what you want. Then, finding out what others want is not hard, if everyone is easily able to express their deepest wants.

We should have a thread where each person expresses that freely. Its a good exersize.

 

[ZenRaiden]

YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS

Yes. I know. Sometimes I forget.

 

[ZenRaiden]

the american military doesn't allow for much "individual expression" or "autonomy"

Yeah, I tend to agree. Heinlein actually in his novel explains why individuality is important and went on to explain how the individual should view self sacrifice with war. Most people compare his view to fascism. I disagree with that judgment, but I don't actually agree with his painting of state and individual. I think he kind of simplified things. However many ideas in the book were quite progressive and enlightening.
I think he was some sort of ENTJ/INTJ type.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

We should have a thread where each person expresses that freely. Its a good exersize.

personally, if find one-on-one interactions more effective for "exploring feelings"

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Heinlein actually in his novel explains why individuality is important and went on to explain how the individual should view self sacrifice with war.

it's when i was watching the "chernobyl" television show that i realized

"hero"

is a 100% communist idea

i mean

nobody risks their own life in battle



for the money

 

[ZenRaiden]

it's when i was watching the "chernobyl" television show that i realized

"hero"

is a 100% communist idea

i mean

nobody risks their own life in battle

I think he was aiming to explain why compulsory service such as in Soviet Union was bad idea. You had to serve 2 years if you were a man.
Heinlein described military service as voluntary duty, ergo you joined only if you made the choice yourself. He was very pro freedom.
So he was not fascist. But he actually described military life pretty grimly, to make a point. The book is about Bug war where bugs are destroying the planet though so not sure how to square the idea of free choice to join military.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I think he was aiming to explain why compulsory service such as in Soviet Union was bad idea.

ok, fair enough, i just remember in the movie they mention that in order to earn the right to vote, you have to "volunteer" for military service

 

[ZenRaiden]

ok, fair enough, i just remember in the movie they mention that in order to earn the right to vote, you have to "volunteer" for military service

Yes the movie does say that. I am not sure, ergo don't exactly remember how much it conforms with what the book was about, because in the book he goes more in depth and bit philosophical, about humans and morality. Movies just cannot cover that level of detail in 2 hours.

Movie was a caricature of the book. The book is way more awesome. The guy is a good writer. That being said I think the authors of the movie were kind of aiming to make the movie funny. Essentially the movie is not meant to be serious in any sense of the word. Its more like satire and parody.

 

[Black Rose]

From attachment theory:

1) I cannot defend myself and I cannot trust others.
2) I am insecure and need to cling to some figure to take care of me.
3) I can take care of myself and ignore other people.
4) I am okay and other people are okay.

I would be number one.

I know that I try and help people but also I am afraid of them.

One time I made an attempt to be vulnerable and I did integrate some aspects of myself. I saw a golden figure in a white void.

Wherever energy is it is trapped and needs to be released.

Or you need energy and must get it from somewhere.

It seems that the integration of the shadow has many levels to it.

Sadness, anger, and apathy along with fear seem to be energy conditions.

Safety belonging cognition in the brain stem model works with energies.

I do not feel safe, I do not belong and I need things to do.

A shadow I think is about pent-up energies.

We dream about what conditions we need to resolve.

Engrams are the emotions we place on things via symbols.

We have in us symbols that hold emotions, so the shadow would be a complex of negative engrams that block us in some way from having a need met.

Crying for example can release sadness and anger can defend us from threats.

Fear can be placed on objects and we will avoid them.

In the dream then is how we resolve the emotions we have that embed inside us.

The impulses we have can become unbalanced if we do not relate them to the rest of the contents of the unconscious. Rest is the balancing process.

I have the impulse to run away becoming overwhelmed all the time. This would need to be deconditioned. But in my case that deconditioning would not work because the fear is from the people I rely on. If I act poorly then they will abandon me. I cannot just yell at people or hit them or say crap because then I don't eat and I don't have clean clothes and all I can do is do nothing. All I can do is feel scared and do not cry. Crying leads to neglect. Any acting out leads to punishment.

That is why I go to the hospital so many times. I needed something. I did not get it and I broke down. I am on the edge constantly. Everything is a live-or-die situation. The only time I get to rest is when I am asleep. All other times I am under constant stress because I must interact with people. And when I interact with people I must follow certain rules. Not memorized rules but rules where I must not upset anyone or there are bad consequences.

Most people do not care about consequences because they have security in some way. They can get money and stuff from other people because they know so many of them. I only know a few people and that means I must follow the rules or they will not do what I want them to do. Every time I tried to force people to do things they left me and when that happens I cannot do anything about it.

It matters that I get to eat or get to have my computer or get to have things at all. I cannot ignore people but I cannot trust people, people have always failed me. Everything is life or death so the rules must always be followed no matter how upset I am. When things get beyond bad is the reason I have gone to the hospital every single time. And because of the way the health system is set up they gave me a diagnosis of schiz and gave me disability benefits.

A shadow develops in people because they get away with so much in their lives that they become entitled to everything they do. They have the security necessary to get away with it. They can hate people because there are no consequences to them personally. Their impulses are reinforced. They can treat people as they wish, they can feel how they wish. They do not have to stop and reflect on what they are doing. They just act on impulse. meaning that the projection is them. Their emotions are what they are acting on and they separate themselves from the object they act out on. If you have no impulse control then the shadow is just the id that has taken over. If it is not the id it is the superego that is the shadow. Shadows do not exist in any real sense other than in relation to the impulses that have formed a negative complex. All impulse control is what the psyche is trying to integrate.

And if the brain is doing nothing but trying to control impulses then neuroses is just the result of impulses fighting each other. Pain embeds itself and then we learn not to do things but then also we have needs and we cannot satiate them and so as to not die we repress them. This imbalances the system to such extremes that when we need something we create more stress than necessary to gain it. the system begins to fluctuate and we become unable to control ourselves. Once control is lost things break down to basic drives. Whatever is reinforced then becomes the default mode of survival.

I think it does come from over thinking and fixing on abstract ideals that aren't applicable.

Pain is the driving force for anything so I was in pain.
Abstract ideas are fine so long as no pain is attached to them.
That requires love in the early stages of life that is not always available.
And neglect mixed with high abstract intelligence is isolating.

Anything beyond level 8 and beyond is literally impossible to do anything but hold this information in your head.

I think that because of neuroscience we can understand now how the brain models the world and others. It is not even that this was available in the past but it will be when we can view into our heads in real time via infrared spectrography.

That will be a new level of awareness.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I would also point out that thinking can become addiction.
It is basically a type of dissociation from feelings often times.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I know that I try and help people but also I am afraid of them.

 

[Black Rose]

I know that I try and help people but also I am afraid of them.

I think this can be described as the difference between 1 and 3.

1) I cannot defend myself and I cannot trust others.
3) I can take care of myself and ignore other people.

Deep in my brain stem I have the unsettling feeling that no matter what "I" do I can always fail. So fear is not the same as anger. Anger can be used to overcome fear sometimes but not always. And I feel too sad to be angry.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I know that I try and help people but also I am afraid of them.

I think this can be described as the difference between 1 and 3.

1) I cannot defend myself and I cannot trust others.
3) I can take care of myself and ignore other people.

Deep in my brain stem I have the unsettling feeling that no matter what "I" do I can always fail. So fear is not the same as anger. Anger can be used to overcome fear sometimes but not always. And I feel too sad to be angry.

impressive models

 

[Black Rose]

impressive models

The body is in constant resistance against the environment and that is why it uses attention of attention to match what is coming into it to stabilize. He said people are happy with things as they are because it matches what is coming in at a consistent rate. Somehow an overwhelming experience can disrupt that equilibrium enough that recovery requires more attention than normal.

I already knew this from the video. I think it is the basis of self-awareness.

I have felt numb because the mechanism of attention was disrupted.

Sensation could not get to the core and that is a primitive necessary way for the system to protect itself. When the core is enclosed in a shell then that separates the function of the other subsystems. It becomes impossible to accept certain stimuli.

It is necessary to feel things at the center. So what is blocked must have a passageway opened up. Some kind of energy must be channeled into the right spots to break up the hardness. And in the case of other parts of the system, it must be firmed up.

In me, I have trust issues. I felt rejected so I would need to find someone to trust. but who and in what? First, it must be felt, the rejection, not suppressed. It must be embodied. Some things are okay to feel that I was not allowed to feel.

If I am allowed to feel things it is not that I have to act in a certain way or anything. I can be in control of myself but I am allowed to say yes or no or be silent. When people hurt you it seems that they are in control but it is not the case if you can say no.

It is important not to think you have no power. They cannot hurt you if you have the power of self-control. Self-control was damaged by something long ago that is not here right now so it does not matter.

If damage is the cause of all the problems it is important to know what and where it is to repair it. That cannot be done if you are in constant opposition to the world that disregulates you. The senses, the responsibilities, and social interactions. It is all in the body's connections.

What is it that I need to do is considered in those instances and they push and pull on us internally and show us what we can and cannot do. It is not easy when the internal forces will not allow us to do what we need to. It is these internal forces that need to be dealt with. To get them to flow with each other. We have poor circulation of psychic energies.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

It's like people say they want to integrate their shadow.

i watched about 30 minutes of that vid on shadow work you posted

i'll watch the rest probably tonight

here's another good example,

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

In me, I have trust issues. I felt rejected so I would need to find someone to trust. but who and in what? First, it must be felt, the rejection, not suppressed. It must be embodied. Some things are okay to feel that I was not allowed to feel.

i'm not sure "finding someone to trust" is your best move

expecting everyone to act like four year olds

is rarely if ever disappointing

so, you know


like the levels one two and three from the video you posted


and remember PRIMAL ETHICS

(1) PROTECT YOURSELF
(2) PROTECT YOUR FAMILY (IF YOU HAVE ONE)
(3) PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY

 

[Black Rose]

expecting everyone to act like four year olds

I cannot help how my emotional state came to be.

But then it cannot be fixed just by "manning up".

That won't heal anything.

What is needed is love. And that is what I lack.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

expecting everyone to act like four year olds

I cannot help how my emotional state came to be.

But then it cannot be fixed just by "manning up".

That won't heal anything.

What is needed is love. And that is what I lack.

well, you are obviously intelligent

and finding someone

is certainly ideal

 

[Black Rose]

The one thing about anger is that it is scary to be vulnerable because that is not a safe place to be around others who will push you down because of it. So being sad, crying, showing feelings, or just telling people your problems is hard. It is easier to yell and be destructive than to be rejected sometimes. but that is not for me because of fear being how I was from an early age. I don't have those people who would be safe in any way to show anger or sadness or any emotions at all. It has to all be held inside for me. If I did have people then to not be rejected I must behave. I do sometimes say what I feel like recently I expressed that I felt stupid my whole life to the therapy group. What I am allowed to do has everything to do with acceptance from others so that is why I had to shut down for a long long time and do nothing, be numb and do nothing.

My mother is like I said a human potato, she does not care about what I do. I tell her that she should listen but she stares at me in the way a person who is comatose. I cannot get any emotional support from her. I cannot tell her my problems and she cannot understand what is important and what is not important. I cannot understand myself through her. She is disabled in many ways. If I want to fix myself I need to understand the problem. It is not that I am ignoring my problems it is that I do not even know what is wrong sometimes. I do not want to feel stupid but then what does it mean to be smart?

I want to learn stuff but I sometimes cannot. It is not intellectual it is emotional. What is it that I should be learning, what is it that is truly important? that is what I struggle with. I feel sometimes that nothing is important and that if it is important the numbness stops me from studying it. I would also consider how it is going to be useful to me. What is it going to do for me in getting what I want? What if I do not want anything? But what if what I want requires things I do not have? Then it makes it difficult to assess what can be done. I can do some things and not others so I just do nothing because too much to do and not enough cognition to do it.

So if I were to fix things I would need to feel less numb. And then I would be able to do more. So emotions are what needs to be taken care of I would feel less stupid. I am not introverted in thinking, I do not sit and think in my head as for the ability to just contemplate, I must see what it is I need to do. I would do some things but not be able to do other things yet not be able to piece it all together with my skills and abilities to accomplish my values. I always diverge in what it is I want to do. If I could I would take what I know and use it to do many things at once.

I think I understand what intelligence is but then how would implementation work? I cannot expand on how it works without some kind of fixed point to build on. It is like I have the abstract conception but where do I go from there? What do I do? how do I get unstuck? Well, one thing is that I need to show people my ideas to get feedback. I cannot generate feedback internally myself I need instant results to see what I need to do next and that is why I have such a hard time doing nothing all the time. It is why my emotional state is so low.

If I were to work things out it would have to be how do I expand my perception to contain enough data to fix my emotions and to generate ideas I can expand on without the need to get external feedback. Generative loops are important to continuing the creative process for me as a next step.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

how do I expand my perception to contain enough data to fix my emotions and to generate ideas I can expand on without the need to get external feedback. Generative loops are important to continuing the creative process for me as a next step.

that sounds like a move in the right direction

do you have any favorite books, movies, television shows, or games

 

[Old Things]

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

 

[Black Rose]

From attachment theory:

1) I cannot defend myself and I cannot trust others.
2) I am insecure and need to cling to some figure to take care of me.
3) I can take care of myself and ignore other people.
4) I am okay and other people are okay.

Infant Attachment:

1) The infant is left alone, they do not play but remain still
The mother returns and the infant hesitates to approach the mother.

2) The infant is left alone and cries constantly
The mother returns and the child cries when being held

3) The infant is left alone, does not cry, and plays
The mother returns and the infant ignores the mother

4) The infant is left alone and starts crying
The mother returns and the infant approaches her then leaves and starts playing.

1 is disorganized - had only negative experiences with the caregiver
2 is ambivalent - received mixed signals of being ignored and cared for
3 is avoidant - was totally ignored
4 is secure - was not ignored and cared for

 

[ZenRaiden]

Attachment theory is good stuff.
But psychologist seem to be all over the map when it comes to fixing it.
Essentially the only thing I learned from attachment theory is, if you want to heal attachment you have to do it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

It's a combination of reasoning and re experiencing emotions in the context the maladaptation manifested in.

So basically trying to remember how you felt at the moment the trauma happened and reason why it happened and why you felt that way.

If your issues started before consciousness, it's troublesome, because you always remember things being x way.

If your parents couldn't be at home much because they were working to sustain you, and thus we're always distant it's hard to see how the experience changed you before and after.

Said child might seek more approval and have lower self esteem because as a child they may have felt neglected and thus undeserving.

This is why attachment theory seems like a core concept applicable to everyone. People have to dig into the context they were raised, and need an honest account from someone who had an accurate picture of that in order to reckon with it.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

if you want to heal attachment you have to do it.

sure, but the older i get, the more obvious it becomes

that nobody gives a shit about me

unless i can actually do something for them

 

[ZenRaiden]

if you want to heal attachment you have to do it.

sure, but the older i get, the more obvious it becomes

that nobody gives a shit about me

unless i can actually do something for them

Yeah what I mean romantic one, and by do it, I mean to just do stuff with people until you kind of figure it out.
Generally psychologist will give you advice like how not to make decisions that could ruin your life, but what works for you is "unknown".
When it comes to attachments, the only good advice I heard is "red flags are actually good", "be careful not to open up to the wrong people".
Whether this advice actually can be practically applied and how should it be used is mystery to me.

Also yes, most people live in their worlds, content, so giving shit about something outside of that world is kind of rare.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Whether this advice actually can be practically applied and how should it be used is mystery to me.

there seems to be a scale that starts at "too naive" and ends at "too cynical" with no clearly defined "middle"

 

[ZenRaiden]

there seems to be a scale that starts at "too naive" and ends at "too cynical" with no clearly defined "middle"

I guess that comes down to personality. Everyone has their own sort of internal machinery.

 

[birdsnestfern]

I don't think I was always avoidant, but I was always very physically sensitive and shy. I think my withdrawal into myself happened after marriage to the wrong person and even further after I moved too far from my home town. It might be culture shock or bad experiences with people, but I don't trust people much now. Its like that Bob Dylan song, Rank Strangers. I think I don't have the cultural skill set to flourish, so I have to hermit. Wait, actually, it might be that the culture I'm in doesn't have adequate cultural skills to relate to me? : )

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

I understand or see how my perceptions allow me to view how my perceptions affect my view of others perceptions.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

1) what do i need

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Wait, actually, it might be that the culture I'm in doesn't have adequate cultural skills to relate to me? : )

that sounds fair