Leaving my box

[Grayman]

This forum has been a good experience and full of learning and expanding of myself. There are people here that can connect to each other intellectually in ways others cannot. There is an understanding. And there are a lot of individuals who jump in and try to help with first hand understanding of the situation. There have been great discussions that have changed my mind on function and in issues maybe for the rest of my life.

In all that it was and has been and how much it has given me I have reached a point of stagnation.

There is always something to learn here but there is a whole world out there. There are so many different people with different beliefs and 'unlike' minds. In their varied minds and beliefs resides an opportunity to learn at a fast pace. An opportunity to get views of such varied perceptions. These experiences have identified the little black box that I live in. I have put myself within the box of an INTP mind.

I feel an urge to leave where I am at and to expand but what am I leaving and why is it necessary to leave where I am at to expand myself? Where am I at and where am I going?

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

There's no "one size fits all".
We tend to box ourselves in.
"Us vs. Them" will lead us nowhere.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

In all that it was and has been and how much it has given me I have reached a point of stagnation.

I feel an urge to leave where I am at and to expand but what am I leaving and why is it necessary to leave where I am at to expand myself? Where am I at and where am I going?

I've felt this myself a few times. If you come for the intellectual stimulation, stagnancy is inevitable as there aren't that many active posters and most tend to fall within a few types.

I think what is making you feel this way so strongly is the indirect social aspect of a forum, which you briefly mentioned as intellectual connection. I think if you had a steady relationship with some members or with the forum itself, you wouldn't feel the need to leave as you do in such a nomadic way. But the familiarity is keeping you here to some extent. At least that is how I've understood it for myself.


It isn't necessary to abandon forums altogether to seek progress, unless the forum is your comfort zone...

edit: Within the internet I recommend discovering subreddits for newfound stimulation.

 

[NormannTheDoorman]

I can sort of relate to this. I have almost no if not 0 relationships here at all. Then again I'm still young.

 

[Pyropyro]

There's no need to leave IMO. I think it's better to go on adventures IRL, get some new life lesson or other insight, and then use it here for discussion.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

There's no need to leave IMO. I think it's better to go on adventures IRL, get some new life lesson or other insight, and then use it here for discussion for others to live vicariously.

 

[Variform]

This forum has been a good experience and full of learning and expanding of myself. There are people here that can connect to each other intellectually in ways others cannot. There is an understanding. And there are a lot of individuals who jump in and try to help with first hand understanding of the situation. There have been great discussions that have changed my mind on function and in issues maybe for the rest of my life.

In all that it was and has been and how much it has given me I have reached a point of stagnation.

There is always something to learn here but there is a whole world out there. There are so many different people with different beliefs and 'unlike' minds. In their varied minds and beliefs resides an opportunity to learn at a fast pace. An opportunity to get views of such varied perceptions. These experiences have identified the little black box that I live in. I have put myself within the box of an INTP mind.

I feel an urge to leave where I am at and to expand but what am I leaving and why is it necessary to leave where I am at to expand myself? Where am I at and where am I going?

If anyone would ever learn all that much from rubbing shoulders, there would be no war and society a garden world paradise.

The acceleration would only be the pace by which you are taken aback, once more. Stay! Hide here en-boxed!

 

[Variform]

I can sort of relate to this. I have almost no if not 0 relationships here at all. Then again I'm still young.

No worries. It happens after 734 posts. Why? no one knows. Keep

 

[Jennywocky]

There's no "binary" resolution necessary. You can participate in the "real world" and still participate here, as long as you find you can do so in a productive and balanced way.

 

[Cherry Cola]

There's no "binary" resolution necessary. You can participate in the "real world" and still participate here, as long as you find you can do so in a productive and balanced way.

Indeed. Another thing you can do is try returning after a couple of months, like 2-4 of never having accessed the site. That can be interesting as it may allow you to see what you learned and indeed what is going here in an holistic sense in a way that you can't right now as you are a part of it all.

But, know that you will be missed regardless.

 

[Grayman]

Indeed. Another thing you can do is try returning after a couple of months, like 2-4 of never having accessed the site. That can be interesting as it may allow you to see what you learned and indeed what is going here in an holistic sense in a way that you can't right now as you are a part of it all.

But, know that you will be missed regardless.

Exactly! Thanks Cherry.

There are more than a few I would miss also, including you.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Why don't you come and join IRC/Skype, just to try it out before you leave? It may change your mind.

 

[Polaris]

IRC will make you feel lonelier than ever.

Stick to the forum; less cliquey.

Btw, I share the sentiment, even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here....actually I don't fit anywhere.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

IRC will make you feel lonelier than ever.

Stick to the forum; less cliquey.

Btw, I share the sentiment, even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here....actually I don't fit anywhere.

Perhaps, though you could say the dispersed nature of the forum is the reason why some people feel this way in the first place. One might benefit from a close-knit community, and everyone was new to IRC at one time.

At the least he can try it out.

 

[Polaris]

^ Yes, you are right.

*stops projecting her dystopian outlook*

 

[Grayman]

I've felt this myself a few times. If you come for the intellectual stimulation, stagnancy is inevitable as there aren't that many active posters and most tend to fall within a few types.

I think what is making you feel this way so strongly is the indirect social aspect of a forum, which you briefly mentioned as intellectual connection. I think if you had a steady relationship with some members or with the forum itself, you wouldn't feel the need to leave as you do in such a nomadic way. But the familiarity is keeping you here to some extent. At least that is how I've understood it for myself.


It isn't necessary to abandon forums altogether to seek progress, unless the forum is your comfort zone...

edit: Within the internet I recommend discovering subreddits for newfound stimulation.

I appreciate your support but it is not fully an issue with connecting with people. I don't desire much connection beyond IRL. The forums provide me a mental stimulation that I cannot receive IRL. The forums give me a greater diversity to experience people in a way that they would not IRL because they feel more secure in expressing things while their faces are hidden.

Perhaps I would stay if I had real connections here but the truth is that the idea of pursuing such things here seems unsatisfying. Every second I have outside of seeking truth, self expansion, and my projects I want to give to the few who I have accepted within my friendship, my marriage and family. There is already so little time to be spread around in friendships that lack a full support system that is inherent in the physical realm. This requirement in a physical nature will be much more beneficial and necessary when I begin to expand my family and have children.

I am a part of numerous forums and my time on them moves as I test different connections and thoughts and people. INTP forum has been a forum that has maintained my attention the longest. I feel it has somehow boxed me in as my attentions outside of it, internet wise, have diminished. If only time were limitless...

It is also a certain mental frame of mind that has grabbed at me. There is a common conception here of what reality is and who others are and it has become almost religious or perhaps I delude myself into seeing this.... I need to be away from it to see it.

 

[PhoenixRising]

IRC will make you feel lonelier than ever.

Stick to the forum; less cliquey.

Btw, I share the sentiment, even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here.

I think that a lot of members don't feel like they fit in here, especially those who arrived after 2009. It seems like there is a certain language that was developed in the first-generation here, and many of the serious conversations had today are in that language. If you don't speak the language, your ideas are mostly ignored in such discussions.

I do see new groups of people forming, though, with new cultures and new languages. Perhaps all us outcasts should form a club.. "INTPf Outcasts Association" =P

It is also a certain mental frame of mind that has grabbed at me. There is a common conception here of what reality is and who others are and it has become almost religious or perhaps I delude myself into seeing this.... I need to be away from it to see it.

@Grayman - I do think I see what you're talking about. Many people on here have the same philosophical views, there is definitely a tendency toward Nihilism and Atheism and a general condemnation of other views such as Solipsism and Christianity. I wouldn't call it cultish, but the overall collective mindset does take on a religious sort of form in that the popular philosophical views are thought to be the truth and anything else is treated kind of like heresy. Part of that is inevitable in debate though, most people hold their views as the truth, or at least as the most correct attempt at the truth.

 

[Variform]

What Phoenix says makes sense.

Every forum or community has a sort of...hmm...meta-language? Or...hmm..meta-consensus? Or maybe it is just a consensus. Anyway.

I have not been here long, but there are quite many people who feel they don't fit in. I guess whatever this INTP thing is, it makes people feel not fitting in. I never feel really at home anywhere, so if there forms a community of people who feel they don't fit in, what will the result be?

Some sort of eldritch dichotomous forum subconscious that we all detect at some level? I never fit in and I always feel the most lesser being. And I'll fight to prove it!

I like Grayman. I would not like to see him go. But I won't throw my tentacles out to grab him. I am suspicious of my motives. People informing they are leaving makes me distrust myself. I want what is best for people. If I wished him to stay I feel maybe my ego feels attacked or dissatisfied, that his leaving is a statement about me.

It is fun you mention solipsism. Part of the collective mindset also concerns the worship or at least, the adherence to scientific paradigms.

But that is ALL forums, even religious in origin I fear.

What you write about truth is also true :-) Jung agrees with you. Just read it. Not gonna quote. But it is there.

 

[Jennywocky]

Btw, I share the sentiment, even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here....actually I don't fit anywhere.

It must be a forum thing. I usually feel like an outlier too, and struggle between staying and going. Remember that time I flipped out a few years back and did an "I'm leaving" thread? *doh* Then suddenly everyone was like, "What's wrong? Of course you belong here." I honestly was surprised. It's just I wasn't getting normal feedback cues I associated with being part of a group, I felt rather invisible.

But yes, it translates into real life, not just here. I think it's just the mindset of the types of people that seem to come to this forum.... open to communicating, and rather abstracted, but never quite feel cemented into groups. Large streak of individuality/solitude.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

There is nothing grand about this particular place, but the realisation that you will never leave the box will come to you in various conditions and communities. You might feel out of place, but you will build the walls anew.

What is there to learn from other boxes? There are perceptions and information, perceptions are biased and information grants knowledge, a matter of preference and time. Ther is no need to leave your boundaries to access the information however.

 

[Grayman]

What is there to learn from other boxes? There are perceptions and information, perceptions are biased and information grants knowledge, a matter of preference and time. Ther is no need to leave your boundaries to access the information however.

No one can be objective. One can only see the world through different lense of bias and define the truth in the relation therin.

 

[Red myst]

No one can be objective. One can only see the world through different lense of bias and define the truth in the relation therin.

From what I understand, using different perspectives "(lenses of Bias)" is a function of Ni. I tend to do this a lot which is a clue to me that I am istp rather than intp.
Do you find that you both Ni and Ne often? Use one more than the other?

 

[BigApplePi]

Posters (how do you like being called a poster instead of an individual person?) there seems to be a concern about what you are doing here ... and may I add anywhere. Let me ask you guys something. Where is home for you? By "home" I mean the place where you are grounded. The place you can go back to after you have ventured out for experience?

I must have experienced all the feelings you have stated here. To find out what to do with them, try asking where is home ... and if you don't have one, why not look for one here or anywhere? Do you know what steps to take? Do I?

 

[Grayman]

From what I understand, using different perspectives "(lenses of Bias)" is a function of Ni. I tend to do this a lot which is a clue to me that I am istp rather than intp.
Do you find that you both Ni and Ne often? Use one more than the other?

When you look at the rainbow you see a few colors but what you don't see are the colors that fit between them and the colors that fit between those and so on.

There actually is no color. There are any number of light wave lengths but the mind categorizes them and puts them together for you so that you can define them. What you see is a false representation of what really is. There are no specific colors just infinite variations of frequency.
The mind in order to understand the universe creates a color palette and then tries to fit whatever it sees into defined colors. But then you go and find a color that falls between the cracks and you dont know whether to call it red or orange-red.

You defining youself to intp or istp is risking oversimplification. You have found a crack in the categorization. Do you trudge on trying to define youself to it or accept that not all things are so simple?

 

[Cherry Cola]

When you look at the rainbow you see a few colors but what you don't see are the colors that fit between them and the colors that fit between those and so on.

There actually is no color. There are any number of light wave lengths but the mind categorizes them and puts them together for you so that you can define them. What you see is a false representation of what really is. There are no specific colors just infinite variations of frequency.
The mind in order to understand the universe creates a color palette and then tries to fit whatever it sees into defined colors. But then you go and find a color that falls between the cracks and you dont know whether to call it red or orange-red.

You defining youself to intp or istp is risking oversimplification. You have found a crack in the categorization. Do you trudge on trying to define youself to it or accept that not all things are so simple?

What makes the colors false and the infinite variations of frequency true? Both are the result of specific forms of observation. Both are just as "subjective" if you so like.

 

[Grayman]

What makes the colors false and the infinite variations of frequency true? Both are the result of specific forms of observation. Both are just as "subjective" if you so like.

Red mist's feeling of being a broken puzzle peice unable to define himself and unable to fit is good enough reason if suchna reason exists at all.

 

[BigApplePi]

There actually is no color. There are any number of light wave lengths but the mind categorizes them and puts them together for you so that you can define them. What you see is a false representation of what really is. There are no specific colors just infinite variations of frequency.

According to this reasoning there is no water. After all it really consists of adjusted molecules of Oxygen and Hydrogen. Molecules, if you accept them, are what is. Water doesn't exist and is just a silly perception.

 

[Grayman]

There is the common inclination to prove MBTI as true to physical reality simply because a pattern exists. I am cutting that idea off at the head.

There are no hard physical studies concerning the physical processing of the brain that gives sufficient evidence to prove that MBTI is anything other than a simplification of infinite variations of individuals.

 

[Red myst]

When you look at the rainbow you see a few colors but what you don't see are the colors that fit between them and the colors that fit between those and so on.

There actually is no color. There are any number of light wave lengths but the mind categorizes them and puts them together for you so that you can define them. What you see is a false representation of what really is. There are no specific colors just infinite variations of frequency.
The mind in order to understand the universe creates a color palette and then tries to fit whatever it sees into defined colors. But then you go and find a color that falls between the cracks and you dont know whether to call it red or orange-red.

You defining youself to intp or istp is risking oversimplification. You have found a crack in the categorization. Do you trudge on trying to define youself to it or accept that not all things are so simple?

Yes, it is oversimplification and kind of superficial (which is why I don't advertise my "type" or post my test scores in my signature), but it is where I started when I discovered MBTI and I mention it in my earlier post as I was trying to feel it out. My "type" not really a primary concern anymore, except to try to use it as a point of reference in dialog on this forum. I am at the point where I am just trying to recognize which functions I am using, and how and when. I ask questions to find consensus on different topics or look for other points of view.
I know some individuals who do not seem to be able to see things from different points of view other than their own. And I am curious as to weather this is a difference as to what extent different individuals use Ni. If it is even Ni in the first place. And if Ni is a component of being objective, or as objective as we can be considering the biases or lenses we have to work with at the moment.

 

[Red myst]

There is the common inclination to prove MBTI as true to physical reality simply because a pattern exists. I am cutting that idea off at the head.

There are no hard physical studies concerning the physical processing of the brain that gives sufficient evidence to prove that MBTI is anything other than a simplification of infinite variations of individuals.

It may not be a true physical reality, but I think many people use it as a framework to start with as they explore they rainbow of variations within it. I think is is a good way to start, but it is just that. A start. And some newbies like myself can get caught up in the whole "box" idea. My view of mbti has changed a lot since I have been on this forum thanks to so many knowledgable members like you. This place feels like home to me. I love the personalities, questions, discussions, banter back and forth.

 

[Grayman]

If it is even Ni in the first place. And if Ni is a component of being objective, or as objective as we can be considering the biases or lenses we have to work with at the moment.

My view was an understanding in perceiving the world and others and not a product of function. I do both.

I see the world by filtering out my emotions to see all conclusions as much as possible to be objective.

I will also see the world through the eyes of others as much as possible because I am not the only one residing in it and it allows me to be somewhat understanding of them and the world they created together.

 

[BigApplePi]

There is the common inclination to prove MBTI as true to physical reality simply because a pattern exists. I am cutting that idea off at the head.

I hope to address this Grayman and state it in a more detailed manner. Let's see if there are any responses when I do. When proof is not easily forthcoming, skepticism is good.

 

[Red myst]

My view was an understanding in perceiving the world and others and not a product of function. I do both.

I see the world by filtering out my emotions to see all conclusions as much as possible to be objective.

I will also see the world through the eyes of others as much as possible because I am not the only one residing in it and it allows me to be somewhat understanding of them and the world they created together.

You are speaking my language here, but I have to say that before I stumbled upon mbti, I had fewer perspectives with which to understand the world. I had less understanding of my own biases. But it's just a tool. I can see how a person could outgrow the concepts of mbti and never look back. You just keep going, like taking the training wheels off of your bike. But I enjoy playing with these concepts for now. They still serve me for the time being. I view it is just part of the process. For those who wish to use it.

 

[Architect]

even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here....actually I don't fit anywhere.

None of us are. There's no group I feel a part of.

 

[TimeAsylums]

Btw, I share the sentiment, even after over 4 years here; I still don't feel like I fit in here....actually I don't fit anywhere.

None of us are. There's no group I feel a part of.

Stand Alone Complex: Individual co-operation.

teamwork in which all the involved members share a common goal and infomation, but work alone to achive it in their own way

allowing the individual to blossom to full potential: room for growth

"working together independently" (alternatively "independently working together")

 

[Pyropyro]

None of us are. There's no group I feel a part of.

INTPf are people who are alone together. For some reason I find that notion quite comforting.

 

[Grayman]

Good luck.

I'm am going to be gone for awhile. I feel as if I was naive and thought I could work through problems that were not entirely my own. I feel a complete failure, only bringing more strife int the mix. I had not intended to upset Cav and I did not expect to be continually insulted and then attacked for my attempts and addressing and absolving the discontent in this forum.

I was given warnings and I was not the one attacking or insulting. I was only trying to figure out where I went wrong in my observation and to remove false understandings. If a member had reacted in such manner they would have got a slap on the wrist but what do you do if the admin is doing it? There is no way to absolve this issue but I don't have to stick around.

All that occurred was making myself and Cav look worse in the eyes of various individuals. I did not intend that.

This box is suddenly very small now and I can barely move. I'm out.

Please don't reply. I will not answer. I just wanted to get my feelings out there. I don't want another argument. Maybe this thread can even be closed behind me. Maybe they will decide it best to delete this post to prevent further strife... that is fine. I don't imagine anything will change.

 

[Cherry Cola]

You've boxed yourself in, and the box is only in your head dude. Just chill, the situation described in your post is much more dramatic than the actual situation lol.

 

[Cavallier]

^For what it's worth I agree with Cherry. Maybe a break to clear our heads is in order. I just found a new author I'm excited about. So I'll be busily eating up some books for a while.

There's no need to leave IMO. I think it's better to go on adventures IRL, get some new life lesson or other insight, and then use it here for discussion.

Yes. Pyropyro describe my own experience here well. I get the itch to flee. To much having o be the bad guy drags you down or I get bored with the current conversations but I always come back.

 

[Jennywocky]

Yup, get a breath of air, let the head clear.


... but really, such seriousness and intensity being brought to this whole last week. Relax and learn how to let stuff go a bit. It's a blip on the big scale.

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

I come and go all the time. It's not that hard, I just delete any links to this place when I don't want to be tempted and then come back whenever for whatever.

A lot of people here have said they don't feel like they belong even though they do. That common feeling of not belonging is what makes us belong. <---- Makes sense if you think about it or don't think about it. There's got to be some way for that to make sense.

 

[Grayman]

I am sorry I lost control and entered a state of irrationality. The thread "philosophers and society" was meant to contain sympathetic views of both sides and establish a middle ground to find a greater understanding. It was not my intention to lie to you Cav. After some time I can understand your position in this. I imagine you did not elaberate on the accusation because it included a pm. I had in mind preventing future strife between such groups and was not trying to rehash old issues or a particular issue.

Also, ...The titling of this thread can perhaps be insulting...or not I am not certain.

I never should have brought up Variform. It was not originally my intention. I have made a dangerous observation without much thought behind it. With more time to clear my head it has become obvious how irrational my observation was.

 

[QuickTwist]

Do like what Cherry says. Thats what I do. I pretty much just come and go without telling anybody. It suits me, it might suit you too.

 

[Reluctantly]

^

I find this more fun too. Like being sneaky, but without anyone knowing or taking notice.

 

[TBerg]

I just wish everyone was able to relate to each other without ostracization or insults. The series of episodes has global implications on human nature.

 

[Grayman]

I just wish everyone was able to relate to each other without ostracization or insults. The series of episodes has global implications on human nature.

What are the implications?

 

[TBerg]

What are the implications?

Because we on the forum use language that can be insulting to people, therefore insults are part of human nature and cannot be ended in the pursuit of common goals and understanding. Everyone is doomed to be a fuckwad in one way or another. I just don't like banning people. Reality works in mysterious ways, and I don't see a massive purge of people merely going through their own (sometimes disturbed) mental landscape as really something that encourages diversity of insight. We all could throw rocks in the glass house of discourse if we wanted to.

 

[Perfectly Normal Beast]

Posters...Let me ask you guys something. Where is home for you? By "home" I mean the place where you are grounded. The place you can go back to after you have ventured out for experience?

I got my own philosophy
I hate everyone equally
You can't tear that out of me
No segregation / separation
Just me in my world of enemies

.