Learning > To Do

[Da Blob]

I have realized that I no longer read just to acquire knowledge, but I read in the hopes of learning about a new topic and then "To Do' something new. I still enjoy picking up new skills, but I just do not read much nonfiction anymore. It is like I have given up on Pure Science and only investigate Applied Science in the hope I can learn to do something new. Alas, I wish I could claim that I read to learn how to do something that I already do, 'better', but this is not usually the case. As it is I am a "Jack of all Trades, and a Master of none"...

Is this a common thing or just a personal trait of mine?

 

[Darby]

I have a goal that one day I will contribute something to the world, or "do" but I currently am not focused on that as I am still in high school. I also don't read much non-fiction, only because I am more interested in what my english teacher calls "truths" rather than "facts"

 

[ohrtonz]

Alas, I wish I could claim that I read to learn how to do something that I already do, 'better', but this is not usually the case. As it is I am a "Jack of all Trades, and a Master of none"

You may have read this described as us being satisfied with only some knowledge and knowing we could do something if we wanted to but never doing it. Although I think I do that, I also at the same time will feel like I am kidding myself and deep down know I can't do it or will have some problems with trying to. Even without having "i could do it if i want" thoughts, there seems to be this overall feeling that I can't ever improve on anything. That I plateau on whatever I learn. For example I played a lot of FPS games some repeatedly for weeks but I'm still same skill level, I've not come to this point of being uber pwnage when I feel I should be.

I'm also a programmer self taught for a few years, had classes, and a job for 2 years, constantly making the same mistakes. Constantly looking up small things that are basic because I'm not sure I am doing them right or because I tried to remember but it didn't work. But I'm usually learning something know about what is out there. I just never remember it, I only remember that it exists and I look it up all the time.

 

[amorfati]

This has been happening to me too lately. I used to live my life based on my own abstract theories. Knowing meant everything and doing meant nothing. I now find that knoweldge for its own sake, without being able to apply it, is not only for the most part useless, but is even a burden as well.

As Kierkegaard put it:

"Let us imagine a pilot, and assume that he had passed every examination with distinction, but that he had not as yet been at sea. Imagine him in a storm; he knows everything he ought to do, but he has not known before how terror grips the seafarer when the stars are lost in the blackness of night; he has not known the sense of impotence that comes when the pilot sees the wheel in his hand become a plaything for the waves; he has not known how the blood rushes to the head when one tries to make calculations at such a moment; in short, he has had no conception of the change that takes place in the knower when he has to apply his knowledge."

 

[Da Blob]

I'm also a programmer self taught for a few years, had classes, and a job for 2 years, constantly making the same mistakes. Constantly looking up small things that are basic because I'm not sure I am doing them right or because I tried to remember but it didn't work. But I'm usually learning something know about what is out there. I just never remember it, I only remember that it exists and I look it up all the time.

Hmmm It almost sounds like you may have the same problem with memory that I do. I would even speculate this may be another thing INTPians have in common. There are two types of long term memory, Recall and Recognition. I have virtually zero Recall memory, so I am also looking up stuff to check the details (like names etc.). I do have fabulous Recognition memory (in compensation?), but that results in a lot of tip-of-the-tongue experiences, where I recognize or 'know' something but I can't put a name to it...

Frustrating, to say the least...

I'm thinking one has to have good Recall memory to be an expert at anything - all those annoying details that have to be just 'right'!

 

[Da Blob]

This has been happening to me too lately. I used to live my life based on my own abstract theories. Knowing meant everything and doing meant nothing. I now find that knoweldge for its own sake, without being able to apply it, is not only for the most part useless, but is even a burden as well.

As Kierkegaard put it:

"Let us imagine a pilot, and assume that he had passed every examination with distinction, but that he had not as yet been at sea. Imagine him in a storm; he knows everything he ought to do, but he has not known before how terror grips the seafarer when the stars are lost in the blackness of night; he has not known the sense of impotence that comes when the pilot sees the wheel in his hand become a plaything for the waves; he has not known how the blood rushes to the head when one tries to make calculations at such a moment; in short, he has had no conception of the change that takes place in the knower when he has to apply his knowledge."

Good point and good quote!

Yes, where can one learn about one's Self? We do not even get a simple Owner's Manual. What would be the point of acquiring all knowledge - if that knowledge included nothing about Self and what that Self can "Do"?

 

[amorfati]

Hmmm It almost sounds like you may have the same problem with memory that I do. I would even speculate this may be another thing INTPians have in common. There are two types of long term memory, Recall and Recognition. I have virtually zero Recall memory, so I am also looking up stuff to check the details (like names etc.). I do have fabulous Recognition memory (in compensation?), but that results in a lot of tip-of-the-tongue experiences, where I recognize or 'know' something but I can't put a name to it...

Frustrating, to say the least...

I'm thinking one has to have good Recall memory to be an expert at anything - all those annoying details that have to be just 'right'!

Good Lord I can't express to you adequately how much I empathize with this, especially the last part, which fills me with so much damn resentment, insecurity, frustrating, self loathing, despair, etc etc.

When I took an I.Q. test about four years ago, my recall (or retrieval) scored something like a 72, which is in the bottom 1%. My working memory, on the other hand, scored something like a 138 (maybe for compensation?).

Whenever I talk I have to search long and hard for the right words, and I usually don't find them even after putting so much energy into. I think some less perceptive people might even find me stupid because of it. This is one reason why I prefer communicating through writing, because I can take as long as I need to search for the right words, phrasing, etc.

This has been disturbing me greatly as of recent, because I'm going to be attending college for the first time in my life in January, and I'm afraid that if I can't memorize the fucking details I'll never be able to succeed academically, and if I can't succeed academically what am I supposed to do? Work as a garbage man? Work in an office being subservient to some dickhead? I honestly think I'd rather shoot myself in the head then work some mindless job for the rest of my life.

Sorry for this outburst. I really needed to get that off my chest.

 

[Da Blob]

Hmmm Math?

I understood the gist of all the mathematics and even found some of it intriguing, but when came to the test and having to remember the details of this or that I spend the entire test period in a "On-the-tip of- my- tongue" state...

 

[bluesquid]

look into study aids. Might help. I mean pharmaceutical aids.

a friend of mine is a english teacher. He hates it when I call fiction, "readings training wheels"

as far as talking? takes practice. lotta repitition once you learn all the patterns.

 

[warryer]

I am the same way on recall vs retrieval. The good news is that retrieval seems to be something that one can work on via study and practice. Thankfully my engineering teachers see it the same way and let us use our books and notes for testing.

Amorfati I suggest you pick something technical or scientific. English, history etc are basically being able to remember a specific sequence there is no general idea concepts (if there was we'd be able to tell the future!).

In the work place (and life) I can see both being equally important under different circumstances.

I wonder what causes my lack of motivation for the retrieval side of things? I know that I hate doing something twice. It takes so much energy for me to go back and figure out where I went wrong. The same could be said about studying something that I get the gist of.

The problem could be that I lack motivation in the specific instances that I am talking about. I do spend hours and hours researching potential things that I could see myself doing.

I like what bluesquid says about talking especially if you compare it to writing.