Just realized... fear.

[anemian]

So I took a few Jung tests from 'around' and got INTP just like I did in highschool. However since I got bored I decided to look at a few more descriptions than I did in highschool.

One description that I laughed at was that INTPs fear failure more often than other types... I thought this was a funny thought since I never ever ever remember not doing something because I was afraid it wouldn't work.

then fast forward a few days and I'm working on a programming problem got all the core stuff done. Then I'm thinking hmmm I won't go any further until I have a plan, then when I sit down with a sheet of paper to start planning I have no idea where to start (and be efficient) so I stall trying to think where to start. Then I decide to browse the Internet and a little voice in the back of my head said "Look you're afraid of failure" and I obviously couldn't argue with it.

So I decided to look back and see if this 'hidden' fear has affected me that much and it has in small ways over and over.
___________

All in all I guess you could say I'm curious how many others have noticed this, I really only caught it on a fluke to some extent or anther. And who has found nice tricks for working around it.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i wouldn't even say that its a fear of failure, its more a need to be completely correct and done exactly right. i do fear failure, but mostly its just the insatiable need to have it done right the first time and wanting all the facts in order to make a well informed decision.

 

[Jesin]

Yes, it's more an excess of perfectionism than a fear of failure.

 

[Devercia]

I'm going to have to be the voice of dissent here. I don't care for perfection unless I enjoy going about attaining it. Otherwise I hate looking stupid by failing at something to the point of either needing to study it beforehand or writing it off.

 

[Jennywocky]

i wouldn't even say that its a fear of failure, its more a need to be completely correct and done exactly right. i do fear failure, but mostly its just the insatiable need to have it done right the first time and wanting all the facts in order to make a well informed decision.

But why do you have that insatiable need?
Because, as far as I can tell, to fail creates some sort of anxiety in us.
What is that anxiety, specifically?

Example: When I take a stand on something beyond the evidence, I became EXTREMELY anxious. For some reason, it really eats at me to assert more than I can defend or show. Why?

I think there's a fear of commitment and being locked into particular pathways that comes with a mental attitude of exploration. Creating something, to me, is about the rejection of particular pathways; you draw something out of the chaos not by choosing one thing but by rejecting everything else, bit by bit. I have heard writers discuss writing this way -- that originally all options are open, but each word you use narrows further the directions you can go in the future, until eventually you can only write the story along a certain course.

I think this limiting, especially if it's based on preference and not any discernible evidence, creates a lot of anxiety in people like us. So it's easier not to do anything, than to do something we're not sure of, which can lead to "failure."

 

[anemian]

It's not exactly fear like "Oh god I'm going to fall 30 stories" kind of fear. It stays at a much lower level and doesn't surface unless you're looking for it to some extent or another, even if not on purpose.

Though it does affect me to some extent or another mainly in the form of procrastination or just not doing it.

 

[Ermine]

This really interferes with the amount of sleep I get. No matter what, I have to do well on my schoolwork, especially art, because I'm afraid of doing less than my best. I'm always staying up late for one project or another.

 

[Agent Intellect]

its not so much an external fear with me, though. i don't care as much that others think i'm incorrect so much as myself. i need everything clear, concise, and correct. i need to know that for myself everything can be understood. and i do this in my own head constantly. even if i know what i'm talking about in my own inner monologue, i spend a lot of time clarifying things as if i'm saying it to somebody else. and often times, i made a post on this forum at night and go to bed, or in the morning and go to work, and then i'll start thinking about it, thinking "did i really say what i mean? did i get across what i really wanted to say in that discussion?" then i'll think about it during work or while trying to sleep and come up with a hundred more ways i could say something better or clarify my point better.

 

[Fedayeen]

AI: I do the same thing all the time.

 

[Agent Intellect]

glad i'm not the only one lol. its a lot of self doubt. the same thing happens while writing stories. i spend 80% of my time going over what i've already written, changing and revising shit and thinking about how stupid it all sounds. before i knew about MBTI i used to think i was just a slow thinker, because i could always come up with the most brilliant way of conveying what i wanted to really say later on after i've already said what i said. its certainly one of the reasons i'm very "extroverted" on the internet, because it allows me more time to think about what it is i want to say and how i want to say it. even still, i often think of better ways i could have made my point an hour or more after i hit submit.

 

[Fordy]

I'm also like that, AI.

I'm rarely ever happy that what I've said it was I've truly meant. Sometimes I might spend a while pondering about just how exactly I'm going to write something down, then as I'm writing it, it just doesn't seem right to me... If that makes sense.

I think it can be a positive attribute, though. In paticular, it definately helps me with my drama as an actor. Whatever I do - be it spontaneous comedy or rehearsed plays - I can never be truly content with what I've done. If it's spontaneous or devised, I'd always think to myself "Hmm, it would of been funnier if I'd said that, or did this in a certain way". If it's a scripted and well rehearsed play, I still can never be happy - every last detail must be accounted for, and it's hard to nail it all down in one showing because I can't fully think about what I've done untill well after it's over.

But I see this self criticism as highly constructive, and whilst I fear being lacklustre on stage, I enjoy being able to prepare myself better for the next time round. It's what pushes me up to the next level, in a way.

 

[Jesin]

i don't care as much that others think i'm incorrect so much as myself. i need everything clear, concise, and correct. i need to know that for myself everything can be understood. and i do this in my own head constantly. even if i know what i'm talking about in my own inner monologue, i spend a lot of time clarifying things as if i'm saying it to somebody else. and often times, i made a post on this forum at night and go to bed, or in the morning and go to work, and then i'll start thinking about it, thinking "did i really say what i mean? did i get across what i really wanted to say in that discussion?" then i'll think about it during work or while trying to sleep and come up with a hundred more ways i could say something better or clarify my point better.

Because I don't want to bother elaborating further right now, I'll just say:

Me too!

 

[Gorgrim]

Infact what jenny describes has me remembering something. Back in school I was asked to explain a certain thing about the story, that we were about to analyse.
I wasn't tuned in, atleast, if i was on a road, all the left and right turns had been cut off, and I started to physically shake and be extremely uncomfortable. Pathways as Jenny puts it.

I felt like I needed to review and think but just didn't have time for it. I am extremely afraid of saying something that is wrong, so before I do that, I tend to think through variables and come up with a good answer.
Then, when I actually answer, it often comes out much worse than I hoped for in my inner monologue. I feel cornered sometimes, trying to answer a question, which, you havn't quite thought out yet.


It also bothers me that this fear of not understand and saying rubbish, seem's to get me some horrible grades for what I can only describe as "participation in class". It's not that I think i do bad, but only that I wanted a bit of recognition.

As it is the grades that teacher's give us for what we've essentialyl accomplished during classes.

And I don't show much of myself, my average grades are a result of only speaking once in a while and worse than I thought i wanted to! was hoping I would get better at communicating myself and playing the teacher's game. yes, just for the grades.

 

[Vrecknidj]

I've noticed quite a number of INTPs (myself included) fear being made to look foolish. We really don't like being tricked, or, rather, we don't like being tricked when we should have avoided being tricked. It's one thing to fall for an illusion or a gag that everyone falls for. It's quite another to make a mistake about something and then have it revealed how easily the mistake could have been avoided.

The funny thing is, I think, is that this is a judgment issue, and, as P types, this falls into an area where we are prone to making mistakes. But, as T types, this is particularly frustrating.

I would wager that every type has its own kind of fear that plays upon a weakness in one of the functions where there appears to be a corresponding strength in another function.

Curious.

Dave

 

[Ermine]

And this fear of looking foolish is only compounded by the fear of being inadequate, and the fear of succumbing to anything. You'd think we'd be the most wretched fearful people in existence with all these inner fears.

 

[Dystopic]

I have to say that I was drawn to this thread, because in the last few years I've realized that I have a crippling fear of failure.

It's a fear of appearing incompetent more than anything. I don't want to screw something up that everybody does or can do.

Think about the times when this fear surfaces, when you can see the masthead of its form. Does it pull its self up whenever you're asked to preform a new function for the first time in front of an instructor? Was there ever an internal conflict before showing someone your first work of art?

My fear has come full circle now, as it prevents me from doing things. I'd rather appear as though I don't care about whatever the issue may be, rather than trying and risking failure.

I've realized this fear of failure will do nothing but feed itself and keep me from being any more successful than I am now, and have started working towards moving beyond this flaw.

Is this the fear other INTP's have felt? Or are we just splitting hairs over obsessive compulsive tendencies and social phobia?

 

[Ermine]

Sounds like you belong here. I think we all have mentioned something about fearing failure.

 

[Linsejko]

"Yes, it's more an excess of perfectionism than a fear of failure."

What is perfectionism other than an expression of fear legitimized? You say an 'excess', as if there is a healthy amount... but what is the motivation in the first place?

There is a subtle, enormous difference between wanting to do well and needing to do well.

L.

 

[Fedayeen]

glad i'm not the only one lol. its a lot of self doubt. the same thing happens while writing stories. i spend 80% of my time going over what i've already written, changing and revising shit and thinking about how stupid it all sounds. before i knew about MBTI i used to think i was just a slow thinker, because i could always come up with the most brilliant way of conveying what i wanted to really say later on after i've already said what i said. its certainly one of the reasons i'm very "extroverted" on the internet, because it allows me more time to think about what it is i want to say and how i want to say it. even still, i often think of better ways i could have made my point an hour or more after i hit submit.

That's why I prefer text chats over voice chats.

Because I don't want to bother elaborating further right now, I'll just say:

Me too!

I'm going to put that in my sig so I can just copy and paste it into a post easily later. I have simply not posted lots of times because of that.

 

[zxc]

I think... I think we fear a fear of failure more than we fear failure.