J.R.R. Tolkien, INTP or INFP (or something else)?

[wonkavision]

Was J.R.R. Tolkien INTP or INFP (or something else)?

(For those who don't know, Tolkien was the author of The Hobbit and The Lord of The Rings trilogy, which were recently made into huge, blockbuster films.)

Initial reactions and gut feelings are fine. Take a wild guess. Or give a thoughtful response, if you feel like it. Be as general or specific as you want. It really doesn't matter.

I'm not too concerned about "the truth" here. I just want to get a sense of how people see Tolkien.

Thanks.

 

[GodOfOrder]

Based on stereo type

the Middle-earth universe was detailed beyond the extreme, every last aspect was covered in one way or another, with the complexity and depth of thought that only an NT could produce

Tolkien also had a propensity for languages, several of which he created .

I would tentatively guess INTP

 

[Hawkeye]

Hmm, I couldn't say myself.

But, I like reading Tolkien ^^

Spoiler

 

[Chad]

I would say that he is I. Because well lets just admit it a social persons just would not have the time to create such a detailed world.

I would say N because of the imagination that it took to cheat such a world. You have to realize that at this time no world had ever been made like this. Tolkien created the Fantasy Genre. He is the God Father.

I would say T over F mostly because he seems more technical then expressive in his work. Like G.O. said he created made up languages for his characters.

I would say P over J just because he was found of leaving his book open to interpretation instead of making them hard facts which J types tend to be more comfortable with.

As for as cognitive functions. I think his writing does show a level of Ti and Ne. Since I don't know much about his social life he could have been and ENTP as well but I am guessing that he wasn't the social type.

Given this and the option to chose form I would say that he is INTP.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert and I just do this for fun don't be offended if I am bad at it.

 

[Architect]

Sensors have imagination too. N vs S has to do with the source of your energy, do you draw it from the "ether", or from the physical world? In fact Sensors have N in their tertiary or inferior, so can often be more attracted to it (by appearance) than actual N's. This is a subtle point with Type - consider a similar example with T & F. I know Feelers who are world experts in highly technical fields. They often are S also, by the way, because it seems their S attention to detail helps bolster their F through the math and technicalities.

As for Tolkien it is hard to know, as it is for famous people, especially dead ones. I actually think of him as an S, believe it or not ISTJ is a possibility. Above all LOTR shows enormous attention to detail. Christopher Tolkien has had to laboriously sift through his copious notes and scribbles in order to publish the Silmarillion and following books.

He could certainly be an INTP/INFP, but the dedication to a single medium - the English language, the detail orientation and intense focus plus other cues makes me suspect S.

 

[GodOfOrder]

He could certainly be an INTP/INFP, but the dedication to a single medium - the English language, the detail orientation and intense focus plus other cues makes me suspect S.

What about sindarin, and the other elfin dialects, as well as orcish? Artificial languages, which are fully functional, and crafted by Tolkien himself. They are present in the literature, and in no way derivative of english. And they all hold meaning.

Detail is certainly an indicator of s, but imagine the big picture perspective that it would take to tie all of those little details together. This implies a wider vision indicative of intuition. There is arguably nothing insignificant to any of these details.

 

[Jennywocky]

You guys should read his book of letters, which basically show his "normal language and thinking" directly with other human beings. That might give more insight into his actual personality and thinking process.

Although I think it's interesting that he was a world-leading philologist and translator. LotR might have been his most commercial and popularized venture, but he was a highly regarded professional in his field as well.

 

[scorpiomover]

I'm not really sure. This is what I thought of so far:

His descriptions were definitely uniquely inventive, which suggests conscious N. His level of physical detail of the surroundings of his inner world, suggests Se. His visions are consistent, which suggest Ti. His expressions are usually about people, with a hopeful sound to them, which suggests conscious F, like "“Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.”, and there is little of T-based principles in his novels about how to handle inanimate objects. His novels clearly have moral themes in them, which are clearly intended to impress upon others to embrace those moral values. But they don't push. They hint, and suggest, and offer hope to those who would embrace those values, which suggests something of the introverted way of encouraging others. All this, added up, suggests INFJ (Ni-Fe-Ti-Se) to me.

IMHO, Ray Bradbury is an INTP. He wrote that when he was young, he learned to do things his way, and not worry about what others thought of what he did, which suggests I. His stories are definitely very inventive, and very far from what most people might think of, suggesting that they are invented from the inner imagery of his own mind, and thus, N. His stories are about the toys of science fiction, rather than the people in it, suggesting T. His stories explore, rather than suggesting a moral code, or any specific practical conclusions, suggesting a lack of judgement, and thus, P-ness. The scope of his stories is quite incredible. He talks about everything from babies with murderous intent and the thinking of an adult psychopath, to doorways to parallel universes, to how a tentacled alien child might perceive and feel about meeting a human spaceman, which is so wide-ranging, and considers such unusual and odd situations, as to suggest Ne. All this, added up, suggests INTP.

 

[Brontosaurie]

ISTJ/INTJ/ISFJ

 

[wonkavision]

Interestingly, Pod'Lair reads Tolkien as Nai'Xyy (INFJ correlate).

what do you guys think of that?

 

[Auburn]

Via CognitiveType's methods of VR, Tolkien could only have been either SiTe or TeSi. Most probably TeSi.

And this reflects perfectly in both his writing style, profession, and thought process. The way in which his novels are constructed are in that compartmentalized Ne-Si manner. He describes the story historically, putting enormous detail into the paradigm but also letting it flow forward using Ne in very unrelated directions.

If you read commentaries about his books you'll notice he used a lot of unconventional and "incorrect" writing approaches. He essentially went on what I call an "Si-ramble" that is propelled forward by Ne. It keeps going and going because Ne generates more ideas, and Si wants to archive it all into one cohesive paradigm -- built from individual events (Si) not universal themes (more typical of Ni).]

Furthermore the "Shire" is essentially a metaphor for his Si's familiar-comfort. Characters like Bilbo who are hesitant of change [Si paranoia], but also have the curiosity of a cat underneath, is Si>Ne personified. During the books, the Shire becomes the familiar home-place that characters yearn back for, with the same nostalgia that Si often has.

The detail placed on his language is also very very interesting. I believe his obsession with changing and rechanging words (he had several renditions of many of his languages over the years) is due to his Fi "feeling" a word is or isn't right, then altering it. The elvish languages "felt" right to Tolkien in the Si and Ji sense. But his Ne would continue to alter them as alternatives appeared. He died never having finished some languages, and still making modifications to some of the stories/plots.

Further evidence is in the colossal volumes of "The History of Middle Earth" which , though I haven't read, I'd wager follow the same pattern of writing via Si historical documentation via event-orientation (rather than theme-orientation).

 

[Cherry Cola]

Interestingly, Pod'Lair reads Tolkien as Nai'Xyy (INFJ correlate).

what do you guys think of that?

Where can I read about it? Sounds unlikely but the man isnt all that easy to type, but his works and his efforts do speak of Si and Te imo. Perhaps Fi and Ne as well.

I'm thinking ISTJ or INFP.. maybe INTP.. I just don't see much Ti in the way he built his world.

Auburn: I recall large parts of the books being terribly boring and lenghty detailed descriptions of unexciting events. Like after they won the battle of Minas Tirith there was just so much crap that could've been released as trivia for die hard fans instead.. annoying Si crap.

 

[Auburn]

Auburn: I recall large parts of the books being terribly boring and lenghty detailed descriptions of unexciting events. Like after they won the battle of Minas Tirith there was just so much crap that could've been released as trivia for die hard fans instead.

Yes, precisely. These are Si-rambles, and of a sort that becomes even more pronounced due to Te's insensitivity (whereas Fe might realize this'd bore the reader).

In Te types this can be further emphasized if Fi has a position of "well, that part was important to me". It won't omit it based on critique if that's what it wanted to convey or what it felt. In a lot of ways Tolkien wrote this book for himself, and in an interview he does say he just wanted to try his hand at a long book.

 

[Montresor]

Interesting choices with ESTJ.

I am on board with the Si>Ne rambles, absolutely. There were times (when younger) that I would skip over pages and pages of (what seemed like) pure crap.

The chapter after the Minas Tirith battle is long and boring for sure, but if you actually read it, it's truly exciting - you can tell even the author is excited. The excitement is pouring out of the pages. Aragorn is fulfilling his destiny to be the first high King of the reunited realms etc.

I have also noticed these qualities in the characters themselves. The more distinguished, respectable, intelligent, leader-type characters are always referring back to the past, the way things were, sentimentality, "right v. wrong" - all sorts of Si driven feeling. To complement this, the same characters (knights, kings, wizards, Numenorean men) seem to me to be more Te/Fi types (not necessarily Te>Fi in my eyes).

It would make sense then that he might model his prize characters after his own self-image.

 

[Jennywocky]

Well, there's definitely a huge sense of Si that permeates the LotR. It even made its way into the movies, with the opening quotes by Galadriel about the passing of time. That isn't really debatable. It's there.

It's more a matter of whether that would make someone a primary Si or just someone who has that as part of their makeup. People are not cookie-cutter, they are complex and usually type is more complex as well. I mean, the Si stuff is very evocative for me (and it's that way for me IRL), but I know I'm not an Si dom.

I've already suggested once that we'd do better typing Tolkien if we expanded the discussion beyond everyone's analysis of LotR. He wrote other things and we also have multiple biographical profiles of the man because of his popularity.

 

[Montresor]

I've already suggested once that we'd do better typing Tolkien if we expanded the discussion beyond everyone's analysis of LotR. He wrote other things and we also have multiple biographical profiles of the man because of his popularity.

Did you consider that a great many of his works reference the events and characters in his other works? He may have created thousands of characters, words, languages, realms, castles, fortresses, spells, histories etc ... but only one universe.

 

[Cherry Cola]

I'm thinking ISTJ because he really doesnt seem extraverted considering what he did with his life and because I feel like you'd need to be an Si Dom rather than Aux to do what he did on your own.

But I could be wrong.. don't really know the guy

 

[Hawkeye]

Speaking of Tolkien, I just pre-ordered The Fall of Arthur.

 

[Jennywocky]

Did you consider that a great many of his works reference the events and characters in his other works? He may have created thousands of characters, words, languages, realms, castles, fortresses, spells, histories etc ... but only one universe.

I'm not sure what your point is with that, as that would suggest Ne and Ti with forming all of those interlocking concepts and tying so many things together (just as he did with his personal private theology), but everyone seems fascinated with Si lately here to the point of being lopsided. It's all cherry-picking.

Hence, why not get out of THAT dead alley and pull some other DIFFERENT situations into the mix -- primarily his personal letters, his actual life, his relationship with his wife, his strengths as a teacher, his philological work, etc.

It's not rocket science, in terms of understanding the better cross-section you get rather just obsessing over his LotR related works, the more chance you'll get a better read.

 

[Montresor]

I'm not sure what your point is with that, as that would suggest Ne and Ti with forming all of those interlocking concepts and tying so many things together (just as he did with his personal private theology), but everyone seems fascinated with Si lately here to the point of being lopsided. It's all cherry-picking.

Hence, why not get out of THAT dead alley and pull some other DIFFERENT situations into the mix -- primarily his personal letters, his actual life, his relationship with his wife, his strengths as a teacher, his philological work, etc.

It's not rocket science, in terms of understanding the better cross-section you get rather just obsessing over his LotR related works, the more chance you'll get a better read.

yeah.

 

[Brontosaurie]

i know a guy just like tolkien (writes stories, studies literature etc) and he is very IxTJ imo

 

[Architect]

Well, there's definitely a huge sense of Si that permeates the LotR.

Yes, Tolkien had a strong attachment to his growing up which was out in the countryside, at a time when there weren't a lot of machines. He said something once about the first time he heard a automobile, it was in his teens or something I think which is quite late.

This dynamic plays out throughout LotR. Evil is represented by machinery. Ted Sandyman the miller, the Orcs of Orthanc and the devilish machines they created. Saurons minions and the blasted earth and machinery.

The other side is best represented by Tom Bombadil who plays an Erda character. That section has no part other than as a contrast of the Earth against the evil. Then Elrond who can command the river into Rivendell (the Hoarwell?), and of course Galadrial. Also recall Hollin before the gates of Moria, where the stones still echo of the Elves who once lived there. Dwarves are a bit in the middle as they shape and dig the earth, and there are evil dwarves by accounts.

LotR thus is really a story or myth about the struggle between the nature vs machine.

This is Si but due to it's importance that would lead us to suspect him a dominant or secondary Si, not tertiary. ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ, etc

 

[Montresor]

Yes, Tolkien had a strong attachment to his growing up which was out in the countryside, at a time when there weren't a lot of machines. He said something once about the first time he heard a automobile, it was in his teens or something I think which is quite late.

This dynamic plays out throughout LotR. Evil is represented by machinery. Ted Sandyman the miller, the Orcs of Orthanc and the devilish machines they created. Saurons minions and the blasted earth and machinery.

The other side is best represented by Tom Bombadil who plays an Erda character. That section has no part other than as a contrast of the Earth against the evil. Then Elrond who can command the river into Rivendell (the Hoarwell?), and of course Galadrial. Also recall Hollin before the gates of Moria, where the stones still echo of the Elves who once lived there. Dwarves are a bit in the middle as they shape and dig the earth, and there are evil dwarves by accounts.

LotR thus is really a story or myth about the struggle between the nature vs machine.

This is Si but due to it's importance that would lead us to suspect him a dominant or secondary Si, not tertiary. ISTJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ESFJ, etc

Very impressed with this. But then I always appreciate a good book review. (it's Galadriel though).

Anyways this post isn't about Tolkien's type but since this thread is all LotR I wonder if anybody (incl. Architect) is familiar with the story "the Last Ringbearer"?

I haven't read it but I imagine it would be really good. At any rate, I do recommend reading the wiki article or a review.