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ISTP-INTP mistype

kibou

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How common is this? I have run into a number of I_TPs who identify as INTPs who seem to use introverted intuition very strongly, show obvious extroverted sensing characteristics, and seem to have typed into INTP because they have strong tertiary introverted intuition. Has anyone else seen this pattern or undergone it themselves? I've seen a number of ESFPs initially mistype as ENFPs (especially on those darn online tests!), so I was wondering if this was common at all.
 

Anthile

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Minuend

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I get a virus warning when clicking that link. And I don't do the same mistake twice!
 

Anthile

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I get a virus warning when clicking that link. And I don't do the same mistake twice!

This is most curious. It wasn't there the last time I linked it. I copied it directly from my bookmarks. Here is the text anyway:

When does an ISTP look like an INTP or INTJ?

The Fine Art of Clarifying Type by Dr. Linda V. Berens

What would make the difference?
Of all the Improviser™ types, ISTPs most look like and most often identify with the Theorist™ temperament, often reporting preferences for INTP or for INTJ on assessments.

Interaction Styles. ISTPs have a Chart-the-Course™ Interaction Style, which goes with a desire to enter a situation with some sort of course of action in mind. It doesn’t have to be a detailed plan and ISTPs often seem planful as they analyze a situation in anticipation of what is likely to happen. ISTPs and INTJs share this Interaction Style and so would look alike in that way.

The Chart-the-Course™ style often seems like the Strategic intelligence that is an important aspect of the Theorist™ temperament pattern and ISTPs often relate to the description of the Theorist™ temperament over the Improviser™ temperament. This is especially true when the Improviser™ description focuses too much on freedom and spontaneity.

Temperament. Differentiating Improviser™ versus Theorist™ is key. Improviser™ desire for skillful performance often leads ISTPs to identify with the Theorist™’s core need for competence. In presenting the two temperaments, it helps to contrast the difference between skillful performance as a value and competence as a core need. For the Improviser™ skill often comes from the drive to action and they hate being clumsy or awkward. They get involved in an activity, get caught up in the pure joy of doing, and thus become skilled. Theorists need to feel competent and often want a measure of competence before they even do something. To practice or “do” means failure and that often can strike at the core need.

Roles. ISTPs, INTPs, and INTJs share a desire to act independently and tend to take pragmatic roles with others, seeking autonomy. This makes the differentiation harder to discover.

Language. It helps to listen for the concrete language of the ISTP, which often creates a picture in the listener’s mind. Such language is likely to be full of specific examples and stories. INTP and INTJ language tends to reference abstract concepts with a focus on precision. ISTPs often get at the essence of something rather succinctly, whereas, INTPs and INTJ go into more depth.

Interest. ISTPs are more likely to zero in on someone’s motives than INTPs or INTJs (unless in the business of understanding people!)

Similar Cognitive Dynamics. ISTPs and INTPs have the same Leading Role process (dominant) of introverted Thinking and are likely to approach situations with an analytical perspective and like to know the principles of how things work. The difference shows up in their Supporting Role processes (auxiliary). An INTP described his preferred work style as exploring problems and sub-problems (Ne), while his ISTP colleague described a tactical trouble shooting approach with a focus on getting the task done (Se).

Also, ISTP’s frequently engage their Relief Role process (tertiary) of introverted iNtuiting and enjoy looking at whole systems and patterns and getting a sense of what will happen in the future.

About Linda V. Berens, PhD.
Linda V. Berens, Ph.D. founded Interstrength Associates (formerly Temperament Research Institute or TRI) in 1988 to provide a source for solid information about individual differences. Now Interstrength Associates is the premier source for research, education, applications and training support for the understanding of individual differences and change facilitation using applications of Temperament Theory, Jung’s theory of psychological types and the Berens Interaction Styles Model. Interstrength Associates became internationally recognized as a provider of exceptional Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® Qualifying Programs as well as training in advanced applications of the works of Carl Jung, Isabel Myers, and David Keirsey.

As President of Interstrength Associates, Dr. Berens has made it her goal to attract training, coaching, and organizational development professionals who are experts in their own fields such as leadership, teams, communication, training, coaching, counseling, and creativity to become faculty for Interstrength Associates and to develop applications of the study of individual differences to those fields.

Linda V. Berens, Ph.D., has been licensed in California as a Marriage, Family and Child Therapist (currently inactive status) and an Educational Psychologist. She has worked with the theory of personality types for over 34 years. Over the last 15 years, she has conducted extensive qualitative research into the characteristics of the sixteen personality types and the four temperaments. As a result of this research, she has integrated the work of Carl Jung, David Keirsey and a theory of living systems into a methodology for helping people understand themselves and others, placing her and her associates on the leading edge of work in this field. In her most recent work she has refined the popular social styles theory to see patterns of interaction styles. This recent addition places her as a leading contributor to the study of individual differences.

She has conducted thousands of training programs in this theory and its applications to counseling, education, career development and organizational development. She has qualified over 2500 people to purchase the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator® assessment and is frequently called upon to be the consultant’s consultant. She has trained and consulted with professionals in a wide range of companies.

Dr. Berens is the author or co-author of multiple books and training materials, including the groundbreaking, web-based self-discovery process—Interstrength® CogBooks™.

©2010 Linda V. Berens.
 

RobdoR

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I first thought I was ISTP instead of an INTP. The Meyers-Briggs description holds them as pretty similar. It wasn't until a couple years later when I retested as INTP that I realized my mistake. Then I read Keirsey's book, "Please Understand Me II" and that cleared everything up. He has the best description of the types I have ever seen. Instead of each type standing on its own, they are broken into groups with increasingly subtle differences. Here is a decent description of the differences between the two systems.
 

EyeSeeCold

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How common is this? I have run into a number of I_TPs who identify as INTPs who seem to use introverted intuition very strongly, show obvious extroverted sensing characteristics, and seem to have typed into INTP because they have strong tertiary introverted intuition. Has anyone else seen this pattern or undergone it themselves? I've seen a number of ESFPs initially mistype as ENFPs (especially on those darn online tests!), so I was wondering if this was common at all.

Anthile had a good reference, I'd just like to add my 2c

The difference shows when they get down to application. The ISTP appears confident when working with tangible objects and practical situations. He zeroes in on the problem, unlike the INTP who throws out many solutions at one time trying to check each with his built in logic. The INTP appears confident in hypothetical situations, preferring to gathering as much information as possible before getting down to work.

I was lucky enough to have an ISTP in my high school automechanics class and it was interesting to watch us two IxTPs go. I was more "sit back and analyze"; I was trying to figure out problems by observing the object. On the contrary, he would jump in and almost instinctively know what the problem was. Where our differences blurred is how we both were determined to come up with solutions.

The mistype, I think, comes from the ISTP being able to delve into the theoretical world, if only for practical reasons. Also the letter P and Se sometimes are presented as the same thing in terms of being curious, lighthearted and spontaneous. Se in auxiliary positions means you are able to break down, rearrange, and competently work with power systems(in the most general terms).

One more thing I'd like add. When observing, an Ne would prefer to discuss endlessly, while Se would prefer to start working already.
 

dark

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Well ISTP and INTP do have quite a bit of differences, my brother typed ISTP, and he can use any freaking tool in existance, I on the other hand watch and tell him how each tool works, I know the theoretical side, while he knows the practical. Of couse, when something breaks down, guess who gets to reverse engineer it, :D. Other than these simple differences, they are the same, always going for the same goal on a task, yet doing it in totally different ways. Together we rebuilt my car, he was only there to help use the tools, like grinders, welders, etc, things I don't have the time to actually learn to use, insteadI learn everything about them by watching them in action.

On another side, back in the day, when had 2 CD players and both became useless, so I took them apart, took out certain items, and built a plug connector for headphone jacks so I could listen to my damn tv when people wanted quiteness. I spent the time to figure out how each thing worked, told him how it worked and what I needed soldered, and glued etc, he placed it together not knowing what the hell he was doing, everyone in the family thought I was crazy until he finished the thing and the simple electronic item worked.

Not sure if it is realivant, but I think this is the most useful personality pair up if someone wants something done, if anyone has a better match for making something happen, lets hear it.
 

EyeSeeCold

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^ Sounds awesome

<-Jealous

Better pair? It depends on what you want accomplished.

For world domination: INTP+INTJ. Maybe an ENFJ or ESTP to manipulate the masses(SJs).
 

The Gopher

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yeah my brother is an ISTP and my sister is an INTJ so I am sure I am an INTP. You can't say I am not... unless you want to argue that I am an F but I feel that I am not... wait..:eek: I think that I am not.:D
 

dark

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Ooo where can I find an INTJ, do they like sale them at local stores? That would be handy to use when I decide to accomplish world domination. Also I think the I need to add the INTJ idea on my ruler thread, will formulate the idea.
 

The Gopher

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yeah well my sister is an INTJ and my brother is an ISTP so world domination here we come.
 

Jack.is

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I just had to dig up my copy of Please Understand Me and read the ISTP description to reassure myself that I haven't been mistyping for several years. Fortunately I'm nothing like what it says (fearless? Ha!).

Behaviorally the ISTP is more like the ESTP than any other type, and the older they get, the greater the resemblance. When young, ISTPs may look very much like ISFPs, but as their confidence and pride increase this resemblance recedes. Jungians think ISTPs are just like INTPs with only minor differences, but this is based on the definition of ISTPs as "introverted thinking types." INTPs are logicians, philologists, and architects in the way they think, but ISTPs are completely disinterested in these pursuits. Even a cursory observation of a few clear-cut ISTPs will show how striking the contrast, and how trivial the resemblance.
 
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