ISFP our actual shadow?

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Now I know that they say ESFJ is our shadow function, but ISFPs, in actuality, are our eight cognitive functions in reverse: Fi Se Ni Te Fe Si Ne Ti. I know that when I am at my most depressed (or most manic) I become a tortured (or self-righteous) artist type. I really don't ever see myself becoming an ESFJ. Does the definition of the ISFP resonate for anyone else here when they are at their worst or most vulnerable?

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP.html

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

It took a long time for this to get posted so I don't know if many people saw it, so that's why I'm posting again... or maybe no one else identifies with ISFP, so that's why there's been no response...

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

yes this makes sense, maybe that is why i feel INFP when vulnerable, INTP-ISFP

makes good sense, very good sense

 

[Ermine]

Maybe it's just me, but part of that description is me at my best, at least as far as art is concerned. The whole description may not describe me, but it doesn't really sound like me at my worst, just different. Maybe it's because I'm fairly comfortable with Fi though I don't consciously use it. I still identify with ESFJ more as a shadow function.

Well, actually, I tend to not give myself enough credit when I'm feeling vulnerable (ISFP thing), though I don't think I ever give myself enough credit when I'm in a normal state either.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Maybe it's just me, but part of that description is me at my best, at least as far as art is concerned. The whole description may not describe me, but it doesn't really sound like me at my worst, just different. Maybe it's because I'm fairly comfortable with Fi though I don't consciously use it. I still identify with ESFJ more as a shadow function.

On the cognitive processes site, they define the shadow as this:

The [shadow processes] operate more on the boundaries of our awareness. It is as if they are in the shadows and only come forward under certain circumstances. We usually experience these processes in a negative way, yet when we are open to them, they can be quite positive.

In other words, the shadow doesn't have to be you at your worst, just, as you say, different.

The reason that I came to this possibility is that if I had to pick two types to define me, it would be these. I am constantly divided between art for art's sake (the sensual, non-thinking reaction I get from either creating it or receiving it) or the very rational, non-sensual side of myself. I've considered Bob Dylan as a soul mate (he's considered to be an ISFP) and I have connected on a deep level with those I would consider to be ISFPs, yet overall, I would say I am most decidedly an INTP.

Why, I have to ask, would I identify with the two types who cognitively are most unlike each other? If ISFP is the INTP shadow, that could potentially provide a reason. Also, it would help explain why so many people are conflicted as to whether they are INTP or INFP- as Seducer says, the INFP is the in-between of sorts of the two. So why not just consider myself an INFP, you might ask? Because I read the INFP description and it doesn't fit; INTP, with hints of ISFP, does more.

Also, I wonder, if there are a large contingent of INTPs who truly consider ESFJ to be fitting as their shadow function. If so, as I imagine is the case, perhaps INTPs could be divided into two groups: 1. those of the more artistic bent, with an ISFP shadow function and 2. those of the more scientific bent with the ESFJ.

Just some not very well-formulated ideas...

 

[spockguy]

Function order can be interpreted in many ways and there wasn't a function order prior to the MBTI, only the functions Jung postulated. Socionics is actually taking Jung's same work as Myers and Briggs were fascinated with and positioning the functions in a different order than MBTI. There really is no clear-cut right answer to the order of function, but there is ancedotal logical consistency that can be examined albeit bias based on mindset and intent of the experimentor looking for anything that fits what their initial intuition is, a problem I noticed INTP's having a lot due to Ti-Ne function order, making an INTP appear somewhat naive in their speculative conclusions, not saying you're doing this . But i digress.

Anyways, time to get to my point: ISFP's are naturally artistic due to their function order. Their Fi-Se combonation makes them naturally well in-tune with their enviroment, inert ability to know what is aesthetically pleasing to the senses and how to shape and manipulate their enviroment according to their inner personal feelings and subjective organized ethics. If you critically examine the reasons for you being artistic for art's sake, I'm sure you'll realize that it is for a different reason, and done using a different mindset in general than that of an ISFP. Any type can do art for arts sake, but each their own reasons and learning style.

Also, for an INTP the most vulnerable function that typically comes out is Fe (Note while ESFJ is considered our "shadow", we're just an extremely immature ESFJ when vulnerable). I've had my fair share of moments, while under stress, I would break down crying in tears, and become really shaken with emotions that are nearly impossible to control then 5 minutes later shake it off and look back on it thinking "What the fuck was all that all about." and go back to my "normal" self.

A positive case, on the other hand, would be the first time I fell in love/ I empathized with this girl so strongly when I was around her, I fed off her emotions so strongly that when she woudl be sad, I would be depressed as well, and would try all I could to help her, or if she was happy, I would typically be down right manic, always caught up in the emotions though. Love is a hell of a rollercoaster ride.

 

[Beat Mango]

I think the I/E difference is big though, shouldn't be underestimated. I feel ESFJish when I'm trying to make a good impression on someone.

 

[Seducer of the Homeless]

Also, I wonder, if there are a large contingent of INTPs who truly consider ESFJ to be fitting as their shadow function. If so, as I imagine is the case, perhaps INTPs could be divided into two groups: 1. those of the more artistic bent, with an ISFP shadow function and 2. those of the more scientific bent with the ESFJ.

very possibly, i feel so...feely sometimes. i talk about souls and emotions, and how other people are so cold....strange

 

[Ermine]

Also, I wonder, if there are a large contingent of INTPs who truly consider ESFJ to be fitting as their shadow function. If so, as I imagine is the case, perhaps INTPs could be divided into two groups: 1. those of the more artistic bent, with an ISFP shadow function and 2. those of the more scientific bent with the ESFJ.

I don't know if this is consistent with other people's research and observations, or if that really matters, but I seem to sitting on the fence with these two. According to my personal theories, I think there are two aspects of the shadow: the immature "you" that you fear and don't understand, and the "you" that you're typically not conscious of. Both ESFJ and ISFP. I'm not all that scientific and should supposedly be in the artistic category, but both highlight my weaknesses and unrealized functions.

 

[Perseus]

Now I know that they say ESFJ is our shadow function, but ISFPs, in actuality, are our eight cognitive functions in reverse: Fi Se Ni Te Fe Si Ne Ti. I know that when I am at my most depressed (or most manic) I become a tortured (or self-righteous) artist type. I really don't ever see myself becoming an ESFJ. Does the definition of the ISFP resonate for anyone else here when they are at their worst or most vulnerable?

http://www.personalitypage.com/ISFP.html

ISFP Cats are dangerous people for INTPS. I know this from bad experiences. They perceive at the same level but interpret in a competely opposite way. HELL!

 

[Grove]

ISFP can fit me as my shadow function, but I've only ever noticed it while working in the field for my job. I do survey research so I'm constantly on guard to maintain the integrity of the methodology of the project. I find this exhausting and I can get really emotional when my coworkers are less concerned about it, at least to the point of harming the process. I can go with the flow with the best of them, but if you take people into the field without thinking about how we are to collect or keep track of the data, then I will have a serious problem---see, I'm sill angry.

 

[ntfbfi]

I was going to open a topic regard to this whole ISFP thing. My question would be is it possible for a person having BOTH ISFP and INTP characters. To be more specific, in my case, I keep swapping with these two from time to time. Sometime I am highly sensitive with others' feeling or the environment around me. Sometime I just don't feel anything and truly don't give a daxx about it. I do strongly feel both ISFP and INTP in different periods. Yet according to the tests (I did twice, 3 years ago and 1 week ago), I am INTP, the difference between the two tests is I was more a borderline INTP 3 years ago (in other words, I was abit closer to ISFP than now). My latest score is I 95%, N 84%, T 68%, P 68%
Is it unusual? Do any of you feel the same?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

INTPs still have access to the four functions- Thinking, Intuition, Sensing and Feeling. We also still have emotions, even though they work through the Thinking function.

I don't think you're some kind of hybrid, you're just feeling some breadth in your functions! I try not to step on my Sensing function when I see it trying to act, I've been trying to help it grow by giving it space when it needs it.

 

[Yellow]

I am INTP, my husband is ESFJ. I can say that I really see the switch when we are under large amounts of stress. I become irrational, obsessed with unimportant details, and insecure. He becomes withdrawn, detached, and completely unhelpful. It is like we become the worst of each other. On the otherhand, we both wish we could be a bit more like each other (but not too much, because he would hate to be a 'robot' and I would hate to be an 'emotional blob').

I do find it interesting though, to look at the functions of each type. INTP and ESFJ have the same functions, just in the opposite order. We are Ti Ne Si Fe and they are Fe Si Ne Ti. Rather than becoming completely opposite ourselves, we become a mirror image.