ISFJ vs INTP = Catastrophe

[LoveofINTP]

Really, Isfjs are the worst type you will ever have the misfortune of interacting with as a logical thinker. So unbelievably emotional and easily offended and worst of all is that they never forgive anything they perceive to be a slight against them. Even if they were not actually slighted on purpose and whoever they are angry with had no intentions of upsetting them, it makes no difference and they still go ahead to think up ways to hurt their perceived enemy because their irrational minds would never realise this or even consider discussing the issue to resolve it like sane and mentally balanced human beings.
I can't with this lot, I just can't, and I keep ending up with their crybaby grugde bearing arses every damn time. Mom and younger brother are both Isfj and its a never ending roller coaster ride trying to figure out what new offence I commited that hurt their feelings and is currently making them seek ways to make my life difficult. I just started work in this new establishment and realised the lady I have to spend 6hours in the same office with is also isfj.
So far, i have had to endure days of difficulty trying to carry out group tasks with her while she constantly ignores me for god knows what reasons and keeps putting deliberate effort into ruining whatever she sees me working on because of a new grudge she was bearing.
Bearing grudges and plotting revenge over stupid shit they felt upset about is second nature to these motherfuckers, they don't even care if their idea of revenge is proportional to whatever they felt was done to wrong them, they just blow everything up and overreact in epic proportions because of how sensitive and easily upset they are.

The world will be a better place without these people. It really would.
Always misinterpreting innocent harmless gestures as slights or attempts to hurt them, never bothering to discuss whatever they feel offended about because of their complete and total lack of logical reasoning and worst of all is thinking up ways to avenge themselves against those who unwittingly did something to hurt their stupid little feelings.
Seriously, fuck isfjs.

 

[Jennywocky]

My mom and sister are ISFJs, and I was married to one (past tense) for 15 years. When immature, they can create a lot of hell. And when my ex and I were both immature (yes, both of us -- I had my own problems I brought to it), a lot of marriage (like, the first eight years) was hell. I never want to do that again. [And yes, it was mainly the battle of logic vs sentiment/tradition. We both perceived things as WE each were but not what each other's underlying intent actually was. It was awful... some of the most frustrating periods of my life. I've rarely been that angry or confused since that time.]

Then again, a lot of the practical stuff I've learned and how to actually function in society and get stuff done came from what rubbed off on me from them. And they're pretty loyal and will go more than the extra mile if they care about you. So I see them as having value. All types can suck when the person you're dealing with is immature.

 

[Cherry Cola]

These are qualities of immature fuckdicks, not ISFJ.
And what's your part in all this? Are you just the innocent victim? You've offered a pretty one-sided and vague account of things.

 

[Yellow]

Most ISFJs I've known have been pleasant enough. My first known ISFJ was my (now deceased) ex mother-in-law. The evening of the first day we met, she gave me a big hug and told me she loved me, and she meant it. We didn't have a lot of contact, but she was always so sweet, and though I was younger than half of her grandchildren, she treated me like a daughter and included me in everything. After she died, her friends told me that she used to go on and on about what a wonderful girl I was.

Now, she was really sensitive, and her feelings were easily hurt, but I can't imagine anyone (but my ex) being cruel enough to do anything that might upset her.

The ISFJs I have working for me now are decent too. They are crazy little liars sometimes (in extremely predictable ways, thank goodness), but other than a bit of bitchiness among them here and there, they are easy to deal with.

But either way, you have to remember that SFJs are like environmental sponges. They absorb all of their values and their world view from what's around them, and they throw in their emotional state as rationalization for their actions. ISFJs are like organized, emotional, loyal puppies who are as nice or as mean (and as codependent or independent) as they have been taught to be.

 

[LoveofINTP]

My mom and sister are ISFJs, and I was married to one (past tense) for 15 years. When immature, they can create a lot of hell. And when my ex and I were both immature (yes, both of us -- I had my own problems I brought to it), a lot of marriage (like, the first eight years) was hell. I never want to do that again. [And yes, it was mainly the battle of logic vs sentiment/tradition. We both perceived things as WE each were but not what each other's underlying intent actually was. It was awful... some of the most frustrating periods of my life. I've rarely been that angry or confused since that time.]

Then again, a lot of the practical stuff I've learned and how to actually function in society and get stuff done came from what rubbed off on me from them. And they're pretty loyal and will go more than the extra mile if they care about you. So I see them as having value. All types can suck when the person you're dealing with is immature.

Glad to know you and your spouse are now getting along quite well. Congrats on being able to understand each other well enough to do that. I agree with you that isfjs can bring hell sometimes, hell in its true, pure unadulterated form. I just wish they would talk things over sometimes instead of reacting towards others based on what they FEEL to be correct. I have been on online forums that discuss isfjs and they have basically the same things to say about them which is hardly anything positive.

 

[Jennywocky]

Glad to know you and your spouse are now getting along quite well.

Ummm.... ex. We're divorced. (But it was for other reasons. We're actually still friends and get along.)

Congrats on being able to understand each other well enough to do that. I agree with you that isfjs can bring hell sometimes, hell in its true, pure unadulterated form. I just wish they would talk things over sometimes instead of reacting towards others based on what they FEEL to be correct.

Totally. My ex-mother-in-law is an ISFJ too and she is a pain to deal with... she's religious and is very sure of what she thinks "right and wrong" is, and isn't open to discussion. But this can create tension/rifts in the family.

I don't really understand "gut reactions" of what is correct, as every idea or feeling I had was always subject to my own personal scrutiny and had to be vetted and understood. But I would be told that I was overthinking it. (Which could be the case at times, but some analysis rather than total blind faith is actually productive.)

I have been on online forums that discuss isfjs and they have basically the same things to say about them which is hardly anything positive.

yeah, these are typical weaknesses of that type. Nothing new here.

 

[QuickTwist]

Honestly this thread reminds me of an elitist who goes out of their way to talk their shit about how people never quite meet up with their expectations.

 

[Frankie]

My ex girlfriend is ISFJ. Generalizing from that (which is not very good), I think that, when it comes to love, ISFJs love to a fault, which makes them seem needy. But then, discussing issues with them is very annoying and frustrating as they tend to see things only from their perspective. This is just my experience tho... Just thought I should join in.

 

[LoveofINTP]

My ex girlfriend is ISFJ. Generalizing from that (which is not very good), I think that, when it comes to love, ISFJs love to a fault, which makes them seem needy. But then, discussing issues with them is very annoying and frustrating as they tend to see things only from their perspective. This is just my experience tho... Just thought I should join in.

Very true, this is one of the reasons why they find it hard to understand that people have innocent motives and the absence of touchy feely emotional behaviour doesn't indicate that people have intentions to appear uncaring.

 

[LoveofINTP]

yeah, these are typical weaknesses of that type. Nothing new here.

They are annoying as fuck though....

 

[Jennywocky]

They are annoying as fuck though....

...Pretty much all of my very few "Fe outburst / freakout screaming" moments in adulthood occurred when I was in a prolonged argument with an ISFJ.

 

[del]

I dated one. Ended for reasons beyond type, really.

I like ISFJs.

 

[LoveofINTP]

I dated one. Ended for reasons beyond type, really.

I like ISFJs.

I went through your posts......seems like you've had a lot of girlfriends so far

I've dated NFPs before and enjoyed all of them immensely. I'm a firm believer in NT-NF combos.
.

My girlfriend is ESTP or ISTP, I can never figure which, but we do amazing together.

And now

I dated one.
I like ISFJs.

Kudos on being able to pull this off, while being an INTP and everything

 

[Frankie]

I went through your posts......seems like you've had a lot of girlfriends so far



And now

Kudos on being able to pull this off, while being an INTP and everything

Wow! Talk about analysis. Good job Holmes!

 

[Cherry Cola]

The arguments I've had with my close ISFJ buddy have all been resolved relatively quickly, and (i think) without any grudges held on either part, which is a miracle because I suck at not holding grudges at least for a little while.

Typically one of us might lash out at the other then the other will be sort of oh noes then the one will be like I wasnt being fair, then we talk about our emotions and the situational stuff which led to the disagreement and then its cool lol.

 

[Jennywocky]

The arguments I've had with my close ISFJ buddy have all been resolved relatively quickly, and (i think) without any grudges held on either part, which is a miracle because I suck at not holding grudges at least for a little while.

Typically one of us might lash out at the other then the other will be sort of oh noes then the one will be like I wasnt being fair, then we talk about our emotions and the situational stuff which led to the disagreement and then its cool lol.

Maybe it's different when you're not dating or married.

I have a male ISFJ acquaintance who I think is just great and who I never get into arguments with. But it's different when you're sharing a life together and end up butting heads over how things get done, what goals you should have, how you need to interact with each other, etc.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Come to think I have actually thought that I could never share an apartment with the guy, mainly because some of his habits make zero sense and would quickly drive me nuts

He did share a very small apartment with an INTJ friend of mine for about a year, said INTJ had quite the need to vent over the ISFJ's weird way of doing things. Like he doesn't seem to contemplate much over his habits, so the habits of his which make zero sense are still kept.

Cooperating on stuff isn't always easy with the ISFJ either. But in the end we typically end up complementing one another in a way that leaves us both the wiser. This has been the case with games, music, cooking and stuff. I guess it helps that this ISFJ sports a pretty high IQ and is no slouch in the mental departments even though he's all concrete and systematic in his approaches. Plus he's got aspergers which means he's had a need to figure out how to approach social stuff in a constructive and concrete way because he lacks social intuition. I remember we did an online EQ test one time and he scored like 130 whereas I only got 113ish

 

[Jennywocky]

IQ is not necessarily restricted by type, although the tests seem to be slanted towards particular demographics. My ex when young scored in the 130's.

In terms of general intelligence, people aim it at the things they value.

 

[Alomoes]

Actually, I agree. Whoever you are, you have my aggreement. This is coming from an INFJ with an ISFJ brother.

But the world being better without them is harsh. I would never give up my brother ever. He is a good person. Oh wow, you got me to shed a tear. Well, no matter. He'll go far in life.

And now it is gone. Thus the amazing ability for Fe users to cry and then stop in seconds.

My INFP friend said he has victim problems. I agree. INFPs seem to be quite good at figuring out this stuff from the information you give them based on past results. Hrrm. Sounds like what I do. :S

And I agree. The mind conceals the daggers of our thoughts works both ways. 99% of everyone would classify me as INTJ. The 1% are the people who care enough to ask and learn.

 

[Alias]

This is a relatively old thread, but there's one ISFJ in my workplace that gets offended at everything. I can't hold a logical discussion near her without her mentioning that whoever's ideology I'm scrutinizing is justified solely because it's their opinion. Their namesake, The Protector/Defender is absolutely correct. They'll go out of their way to make sure that no one's opinions or feelings are hurt, if that's for better or for worse.

 

[ENTP lurker]

Really?
ISFJs SiFe that is, is the coolest type. Always ready to joke with me and they accept my not so sensitive jokes and make up my mistakes if I could offend someone. We make quite a pair actually. They are laughing while saying you are not supposed to say that and they might add up something else.

Fi types are the sensitive ones.
ISFPs and INFPs are the worst in that category. With INFPs there is some interesring common ground to work with ISFPs not even that in the long run we have nothing in common. The ISFPs do not understand my reasonings/jokings so I get free pass at times. With ISFPs I can exists if there is space between us and with INFPs I have to be careful but we can enjoy together.

My 2c.

 

[JimJambones]

I would have suspected ISFJs and INTPs to be capable of having quite good relations. The Fe of the ISFJ can lighten the mood and create a comfortable environment, which the INTP would appreciate. The ISFJ can benefit from the INTPs problem solving skills. I think they both have something to offer the other.

 

[the.aleph]

i got one:

i'm in a four member band with an isfj. this person has really managed to drive me crazy a number of times. but as an internal processor and also fairly well along in my years, i keep in mind that the goal of our interactions is to actually be playing the music. so i usually swallow my pride and keep listening to the ideas this person has.

i've read that isfjs need to be informed of things in a clear way and like to know that their opinons matter, and are included. so when booking shows this year, i group txted, asking everyone if they could make it to four events. i previously received commitments from others except for the isfj, and it never came in the group txt. i specifically wrote their name, and then earnestly requested an answer, adding that i understand this isfj is busy (long commute, work hrs) so i wouldn't make a decision unless consulting them first. until i actually txted this person in a one-on-one chat, along with the mention that the other members had agreed, i didn't receive any acknowledgement of my request via group txt.

we had recorded some stuff a while back. this isfj was unhappy with the quality of their performance. unfortunately, we ran out of time and just got what we got. eventually, the tracks got mixed down and sent to us. at the time, we had no other documentation. an event planner requested some recordings, and so i asked if it was ok to use the mixed tracks. my fellow bandmates said ok except for the isfj (no word). eventually, i set up a soundcloud due to necessity and put the tracks up. nothing was ever said, but i started to feel like the isfj resented my actions of necessity over the group creative material.

when working on cover art, the isfj wanted to obtain images a couple times. i understand very little about taking photographs myself, but responded promptly to a request asking if anyone was available the next day for a photo shoot. we both took multiple images of each other, as the rest of the band couldn't make it, and then went to the studio to process the images through photoshop. i do have an extensive background in image processing and graphic design, but mentions of some basic filters was brushed away dismissively, with the explaination "it just gets too complicated. just keep it simple". i didn't pursue this as i felt my ideas were unwelcome. it is also not my piece/concept so i let it go. i hung out for moral support, ate lunch and noticed the isfj using a tool not suited for the job. i just chatted about a couple tv shows, then had to leave for a class. i thought briefly that it was hurtful my suggestion was rejected but again, not my concept.

we're now in the process of compiling an image for merch. i volunteered myself for materials, services, and pricing research. i mentioned ordering in bulk online. during the brainstorm, the isfj said that they find their materials by just going to Michael's, and that the store will randomly have the items for a couple bucks. they were insistent that this worked for them, and insisted that this was perfect because the Michael's versions didn't have a "weird shape". i didn't observe that the isfj acknowledged my proposal about ordering online. it's difficult for me to understand because this person strongly utilizes secondary Fe and senses their environment with dominant Si. anyway, i went ahead and dug around anyway, then sent a distributor link announcing this would be "better than driving to craft stores on a per diem basis". i do not understand the isfj's response: "YAAS gorl... YAAASSS!!" is this sarcasm or just appreciation?

anyway, i presented my findings. we have a few screens (for screenprinting) so that cuts down materials cost. they are aluminum frames, something that's been around for years. in summary, it is of course more expensive to have new screens made than to just recycle the ones already in posession. i mentioned this after i gave a run-down of services costs. the isfj said "just get new screens made. nobody knows how to use aluminum anyway, it's better to use wood." i was completely shocked and couldn't understand it. we reviewed whether or not we got to keep the screens. it turns out keeping the screens is an additional fee (of course). i moved the conversation on to quantity of materials we would order.

after a decision on quantity, we went to look at the equipment in our posession. we had been gifted the press armature, with four swing arms. i found that we had a couple boxes of ink. the isfj and i both commented we didn't have cleaner for the screens or emulsion. at that point, as we started to head back in, the isfj said "we can't use it, we're not going to use it for anything. just get rid of it." i was shocked again and responded with "well i don't know about get rid of it. i went and picked it up, and a friend got it for us." the isfj resonded with "well then just give it to one of their friends or something. it's just good for craft projects." i fell silent. i was really bothered by that response.

i am so angry. who is this person to be so dismissive of tools, research and the effort people make to obtain the information? i find the isfj's rationale to be inconsistent, insisting that the artwork of the band should be handmade original works, then demanding to outsource the actual print work to a business. i also find the isfj's critiques for suggestions or artwork made by someone else to be incredibly irrelevant, objecting to a submitted image in its totality just because they perceived the image to have five colors instead of four with a flat refusal of any closer examination.

i want comments and explainations for the isfj's behaviour because right now, to me, this person is an a-hole. thanks.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

i want comments and explainations for the isfj's behaviour because right now, to me, this person is an a-hole. thanks.

So you've met an asshole. How do you separate your idea about this person from their behaviour and from what makes you think that they are ISFJ or that it can be attributed to ISFJ people?

Your comment is useful as a single case data, now if this thread stays active for a few years and we get more and more stories like this one and we rule out the possibility of forming biased ideas about given types or personalities based on the contents of this thread and the general projection/premise that anyone describing their internal feelings has or might have. Then it might be possible to say something conclusive about ISFJ people, all the while assuming that somethig so potentially far fetched and unstable as a definitive type or correlation of typology, behaviour patterns and psychology exist and that it would be possible to assign such abstract models to what an untrained and unprepared individual observes or notes during a limited number of misdirected interactions.

 

[Neckbeard]

Meh. I tend to rub everyone the wrong way eventually, either through awkwardness or callous disregard for their feelings.

 

[the.aleph]

Then it might be possible to say something conclusive about ISFJ people, all the while assuming that somethig so potentially far fetched and unstable as a definitive type or correlation of typology, behaviour patterns and psychology exist and that it would be possible to assign such abstract models to what an untrained and unprepared individual observes or notes during a limited number of misdirected interactions.

Oh. So this quote is saying I don't have a good recall my own experiences.

My catalogue of the above instances are what happened. There is a clear separation between the interpersonal exchanges that occured, and then a statement that indicates my internal reaction.

The person didn't start out as an asshole. The person started out as an unassuming, soft-spoken acquaintance that chatted about things we both have passing interests in. That's when I started to recognize that this person relies heavily on Si. A friend had to operate the camera on a separate occassion and the isfj was adamant on setting everything up and giving the most limited, yet thorough directions necessary about the barebones physical process of where the image should be in the lens, and how to depress the shutter release. Also, Photoshop has gone through multiple versions since 2003. This person's background is in photography but the tools they use to manipulate images are from CS2 era. The person is silent in conversations touching on concepts or ideas, and will direct conversation to events in TV series episodes or events from their life from the past. Sometimes this happens for five, ten minutes at a time in a group that doesn't recognize the entertainment reference. Nor is there any implied or obvious relation to the original topic at hand. Then of course, someone else will be reminded of a similar event in another show, etc.

They're also a good Fe user and takes in social cues and immediately knows what those little changes of expression and gestures mean. We've watched cartoons and movies together, and the isfj will catch the cues of the animators.

When I'm listening for Ti's thread in our conversations, it's incredibly difficult to follow. I am curious and interested and want to be supportive, but I just end up lost on why A, then B, then F happened. I begin to feel like I'm just getting image plate after image plate of events, with no overarching goal of why this set of narrations is being handed to me. I thought I was just stupid because of my ineptness at the dimensionality of emotions. But then I saw others struggle with the same difficulty (INTJ, ENTP, INFP, INFJ). It's a little bit like the feeling of being lost when the aforementioned TV references are brought up. It's ok. Not everything always has to have a point and sometimes people just want to share and share and share. Like me right now.

I get peeks at this person's Ne, but it's not wild like an ENTP's. When the isfj comes up with a creative piece of something, it's only a small move away from the original.

As I said, this person is fairly unassuming, and is thoughtful at times. However, I've observed them when interacting with my fellow band mates on process, the person becomes convoluted and intractable.

Look. I'm reading around for someone that can speculate the reasoning thread in the ISFJ's behaviour, in the exchanges where I received no response, as well as the exchanges where the responses didn't make rational sense. I need to continue a dynamic with this person. I'm frustrated at the intractability and angry at the dismissiveness of resources. I didn't need to get into a whole THING about all my bias. Yeah, you came at me with a load of that too.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Look. I'm reading around for someone that can speculate the reasoning thread in the ISFJ's behaviour, in the exchanges where I received no response, as well as the exchanges where the responses didn't make rational sense. I didn't need to get into a whole THING about all my bias. Yeah, you came at me with a load of that too.

Speculate, this person is described in a specific fashion.
I am sensing emotional involvement in your statements, so maybe you need some time to sort it out.

Ignoring that, this person seems to be a leader of your group, or at least pushy enough to override your opinion anytime they wish. They seem passive aggressive. On the other hand you seem very passive and victimised. You mention feeling hurt at your ideas being dismissed, but I don't understand your role in this group to tell more.

If I was to take your perspective, it'd seem this person is very intent to assert and feel better when they follow up on their decisions (typical Si or maybe even Fe). I know a few people that fall into the same category and would cause hell if some initiative didn't go their way and they didn't feel confident to listen to others.

It somehow is related to self-esteem and confidence that the more confident and comfortable with you that person gets, the more they would be willing to let go and listen to your ideas. Maybe their authority and value within the group is being questioned, or they feel undermined? Maybe it's some external dynamics.