Is there such a thing as intoversion ? or is it a mere symptom of self esteem ?

[Attreyu]

(A little preface)
There seems to be an ideological epidemic in modern medicine, with a tendency to conveniently confuse symptom and cause, in such a subtle way that makes it look like there is troubleshooting involved, but in reality keeps the pharmaceutical money machine turning ... by treating symptoms we never truly cure and thus become dependent in alchemy.

(Now on to the topic)
Looking at the introversion notion; it is sometimes made to sound like a disease of sorts, but is it possible (just possible) that it is not really a fundamental characteristic at all, but a mere symptomatic adaptation that happened in our adolescent brains at some point out of reaction to the environment ?

For instance, I remember as a kid, I always wanted to be out and interact with the other kids (I enjoyed and looked forward to it for a while) ... but given a very strict upbringing that involved a lot of "old-style" discipline of various forms (including forced isolation; from the sins of the world), I developed social anxiety to the point of stuttering when speaking. Eventually my brain realized, that I was being judged by the other kids because of it, which added to the anxiety and compound the problem. Ended up avoiding social interactions and becoming increasingly comfortable in isolation and self reflection and by doing so I was missing out on sports and other activities that help a young brain grow. My subconscious was making correct observations of how far behind I was falling compared to the norm and that triggered a self esteem downward spiral.

In the bottom line, I have this suspicion that introversion is a learned behavior (not an inherent one), and that deep down inside we all crave communication; with the appropriate set of select people. There have been times among an intellectual non-judgmental group of people that I felt quite energized for hours on end and was looking for more later, yet most other times I tend to avoid talking mostly because subconsciously I don't perceive enough intellectual compatibility to begin with.

As it stands now, I don't see introversion any more ... just self-consciousness from people whose self esteem eroded away at some point in their lives.

Your thoughts ? Aren't we being extroverted merely by being here to this forum, or even coming back to this forum ?

 

[onesteptwostep]

I think for the most part adults are in the 'introverted/introversion' category. To an extent I think introversion and extroversions are tools to understand people and not really a static categorization.

To illustrate the point:

Person X is running.
Is person X a runner? Or is the person just running?

For introversion and extroversion I think would we could only ascribe it as "verb" and not a "noun".

There of course is the more complex discussion of how one fares in a social situation, but that in itself is just, just much more complex.

As for the question, no, but I could certainly see an introverted person having a healthy self-esteem. But the reality of the world is that people are often chained to certain social orders, (which are obviously immaterial bonds) making it seem like they are 'mindless'.

But is this a bad or a sad state of affairs? I have no idea. Goes on, life.

 

[Haim]

I think it might be developed because of other,unchangeable from birth,thing in the brain.
I was introvert since I know myself,which is about 4 years old,it might developed because of some difference of the brain structure,you just can't relate to other kids and the other introverts don't actively seek you,because of that you don't communicate a lot with other kids and develop some characteristics of introversion.Or you don't like humans/kids,or humans are not interesting,or introverts have very different reasons for communication,like sharing ideas or learning humans,while extroverts want to have high position in society and share feelings or/and to gain advantage/power from being in groups.
It is not self esteem,I know low self esteem introverts and I am arrogant most of the time(due I learned to hide it).Shit now you can claim it is not having balanced self esteem,oh well.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Introversion is typically not a learned behavior, it can be however. Most people are more or less ambiverts. Add social angst to ambiversion and you can probs get something more akin to introversion the way you describe.

Don't think most introverts are such because of issues tho. Level of extroversion is of course context dependent, nothing strange about an introvert being quite extroverted in the right company. Introversion is established by behavior over time and in different context; the sum of it all, a few deviations mean little.

 

[Ophion]

I get so sick of the notion that all introverts wish they could be extroverted and just lack the confidence/social skills/drive to make the change. I'm an introvert, I've always been one, and it has nothing to do with how I was treated in high school. I love being by myself - not because there's nobody around bullying me, but because I literally am energized by being alone with my thoughts. It frees my mind and I can get more creative when I'm alone. Talking to people, for me, is generally just an exhausting waste of time. I do enjoy it on rare occasions, but I much prefer online interaction (which counts as introversion), and I mostly only ever interact with my wife, my kids, and my two best friends. I don't need any more, I don't feel a desire to go be among people, and I certainly don't have low self-esteem. I just like being by myself or in a very small, familiar group.

I think I figured out the problem. You're confusing introversion with bashfulness.

 

[Void]

Introversion is innate. There have been studies, which I cant be assed for to look but you can use google yourself, which show that people who we classify as introverts have a different brain structure. More specific, their brains responded more intensly to stimuli.

 

[nanook]

Social behavior and social rank is directly correlated to extroversion and introversion, because social behavior and rank are products of extroverted cognition. An introvert can have all the confidence in the world, in regards to his inner perspectives, but what he has to share does not fit into the situational context of what I call social behavior, in this context, so it's worthless. While others do their extroverted process, he is busy suppressing his introverted chain of associations, in order to be at least capable of passively following what everyone else is doing and saying. The only situation where an introvert can shine with his innate skill is when he meets other introverts who, regardless of how many they are, share their introverted processes. A self help group or a message board are ideal situations for introverted exchange. But as soon as this group tries to decide where they will go to have a drink afterwards or what forum rules to implement, the process of doing so is by definition extroverted cognition and it will be dominated by the individuals who can use the most extroversion.

extroverted judgement: making choices about what to do by prioritising what could possibly be done in practical manner, while realistically considering how agreeable such actions will be to others. extroverted perception: brainstorming about possible actions and fleshing out steps or methods.

most social interactions are mostly constructed from these two elements. when people don't try to do something together, they talk about what another group of people has done and what they have objectively contributed to that situation.

since an introvert can not gain confidence from social interaction, as he never plays a significant role in it and his minor auxiliary or inferior extroverted contributions are at best socially acceptable and since confidence is also based on being validated by other people and is not a choice someone can make, it is not the same as self acceptance, it's rare that introverts develop confidence and even if they do, it's all limited to their introverted activities or opportunities. by confidence I mean that you know that you can get through with whatever creative impulse is taking shape inside of you. that they will let you live, possibly even support you, when you get into materialising the impulse. it's entirely dependent on the validation others have granted to you in the past, as much as it's also shaped by what you have chosen to try and do so far. confidence is closely related to assertiveness, albeit assertiveness is also a skill that can be learned. assertiveness involves using trickery, such as body-language or using certain phrases, to manipulate other people into validating your efforts. it requires confidence, that you have a chance to get away with it. when others describe you as being assertive, they mean to say, that you are often successful at getting away with it. otherwise they would describe you as angry or arrogant or similar.

 

[Intolerable]

Of course much of it is nurture. I don't think we are biologically wired to avoid one another.

My own upbringing was pretty harsh. Not because of family but because I grew up in a ghetto and happened to be the peacock in that scenario. I stood out in a bad way. I was forced to spend most of my time away from the public eye. My parents were preoccupied with their own issues so I did what I could. I adapted. I grew comfortable with not being around people.

Of course now that means being around people tires me out quickly. I am just not wired for it like I was as a child.

Then everything else spirals out of that. Introversion influences intuition and thinking. Then usually introversion has some influence on prospecting.

It doesn't always come out exactly that way. We INTPs are pretty rare! Though I wouldn't say our personalities are natural.

 

[Haim]

Of course much of it is nurture. I don't think we are biologically wired to avoid one another.

My own upbringing was pretty harsh. Not because of family but because I grew up in a ghetto and happened to be the peacock in that scenario. I stood out in a bad way. I was forced to spend most of my time away from the public eye. My parents were preoccupied with their own issues so I did what I could. I adapted. I grew comfortable with not being around people.

Of course now that means being around people tires me out quickly. I am just not wired for it like I was as a child.

Then everything else spirals out of that. Introversion influences intuition and thinking. Then usually introversion has some influence on prospecting.

It doesn't always come out exactly that way. We INTPs are pretty rare! Though I wouldn't say our personalities are natural.

Wishful thinking does not make reality.
It is not like most introverts go to solitude we have some human connection and I can think of many evolutionary benefit of introversion,like focusing on solving some problem,not going out and get killed by someone or something,take notice of every noise so we can spot an intruder(and actually be in the cave/camp at the time)
It is just a common human behavior to blem others,I am sure there are many extroverts with the same or worse situation as you have.
But I don't think introversion is the attribute itself but a result of other attribute like having over sensation.
Because introversion did not cause many humans to die it stayed not the opposite.

 

[Intolerable]

It is not like most introverts go to solitude we have some human connection and I can think of many evolutionary benefit of introversion,like focusing on solving some problem,not going out and get killed by someone or something,take notice of every noise so we can spot an intruder(and actually be in the cave/camp at the time)
It is just a common human behavior to blem others,I am sure there are many extroverts with the same or worse situation as you have.
But I don't think introversion is the attribute itself but a result of other attribute like having over sensation.
Because introversion did not cause many humans to die it stayed not the opposite.

I never said solitude. What is it with jumping to extremes?

I maintain human connection but nothing at the rate most people do. I am rare I suppose in that I can go my entire life without a significant other with just a random phone call once in a great while. I never said I go without human contact completely.

I do not think any of this is natural. Yes, that is only my opinion but there it is.

There is absolutely zero evolutionary advantage to being a lone human set against the what was. Nothing save a very few species finds success alone. Never mind the fact we are not asexual. There are other issues such as predators, weather, hunting alone being next to impossible in some scenarios. The list goes on and on. A lone human was a dead human back then.

What we are today is allowed because our society has grown grand enough to allow it. Mind it isn't that I don't depend on other people. I absolutely do. I just don't see them. They supply my internet, build my computers, produce my food, etc. Society has grown in such a way that we can sustain at great distances from one another.