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Is 'highly educated' synonymous with 'highly intelligent'?

Solitaire U.

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This seems somehow flawed. Are exceptionally intelligent students obligatory to effective teaching?

I'm getting kind of mixed up with this. It seems more like "Highly wealthy is obligatory to highly educated, but highly intelligent isn't necessarily obligatory to highly wealthy or highly educated."
 

Silphiums

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no.

(I'll elaborate a bit) -
I've known a lot of really stupid, highly educated people.
And absolutely brilliant high school drop outs.

Our education is based on many things, but intelligence (however defined) is not necessarily a big one.
 

MsAnthropy_Indefatigably

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HELLLLLLLLLLL no..!

But that's a given. There are plenty of people who never went to college or graduated HS for that matter whom I would gladly learn from. I guess it's a matter of what kind of intelligence we are gauging. Conversely, there are plenty of "intelligent" people who can't spell worth sh* which you would think was telling on a person's level of intelligence, but it really isn't.
 

koan

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A bachelors degree in psychology now qualifies you to sell clothing. A BA in sociology might help you get into HMV sales, computer science might land you in The Source. Sometimes intelligence can lead to debt avoidance wherein you get that retail job without acquiring thousands of dollars in student loans to be repaid. It depends what your goal is and whether or not you can accomplish those goals without a degree. Most certainly people from wealth don't have to worry about such decisions while the lower income students are being eliminated from the universities for reasons of finance not intelligence.

Now, in analyses of long-term data published in recent months, researchers are finding that while the achievement gap between white and black students has narrowed significantly over the past few decades, the gap between rich and poor students has grown substantially during the same period.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/10/e...ich-and-poor-studies-show.html?pagewanted=all
 

catatonic

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There's a difference between "educated" and "gifted". :king-twitter:

:elephant::elephant::elephant:
 

Ionosphere

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Intelligence and knowledge are different things.

Knowledge is something that can be gained in a lot of different ways yet for the most part you are not born with it. Education is one such method of providing you with knowledge, along with experience. Intelligence is different to this as, although you can improve it with practise and effort, it is something you are born with and/or develop in the early stages of your life. Intelligence is much more broad and can be applied to anything, especially things that you do not (yet) have knowledge of and encounter for the first time. It would not be untrue to say that many intelligent people have a wide range of knowledge, however this is because their curiosity and intelligence drives them to gather knoweldge, rather than being born with it.
 

snafupants

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That equivalency is indeed highly flawed - anyone who would arrogate that staying in school is synonymous with possessing a high IQ conflates an academic with an intellectual. There are many irrelevant factors, which are orthogonal to intelligence, spurring someone to stay in school longer. These might include job prospects, SES, legacy programs, and cachet. Without adequate funds, even the smartest kid might need to nix that doctorate. For some people, like myself, academia simply isn't worth the time, effort, or money. Cripes, I would never assume some fool wiggling around a doctorate or bragging about attending Princeton was anything special. ;)

http://www.crosscurrents.org/miles.htm
 

koan

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I suspect this thread was inspired by either someone with a degree dangling it as an appeal to authority or someone dissing you in some other way because you don't have one.

Aside from that, the question is easily answered by saying "knowledge," "intelligence," and "wisdom," are all different things.
 

pjoa09

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Hell no! How can you even ask this!? I thought it was general knowledge. I think of 'highly educated' as went through a lot of shit against his will. Unless if he is a professor and loves being one.

I think the ones who always struggle initially with a topic and then manage to grasp it very well are the ones who are effective at teaching.
 

snafupants

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I suspect this thread was inspired by either someone with a degree dangling it as an appeal to authority or someone dissing you in some other way because you don't have one.

Aside from that, the question is easily answered by saying "knowledge," "intelligence," and "wisdom," are all different things.

In simple terms, all wise people are smart but not all smart people are wise. To quote the great, albeit consistently drug addled, Pete Doherty: "I'm so clever but clever ain't wise." :D
 

koan

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In simple terms, all wise people are smart but not all smart people are wise. To quote the great, albeit consistently drug addled, Pete Doherty: "I'm so clever but clever ain't wise." :D

Clever gets me out of a job more times than I'd like to admit.
 

Niclmaki

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Hell no! How can you even ask this!? I thought it was general knowledge. I think of 'highly educated' as went through a lot of shit against his will. Unless if he is a professor and loves being one.

I think the ones who always struggle initially with a topic and then manage to grasp it very well are the ones who are effective at teaching.

I get pressured a lot by my family to go to school so I can "get" smart. Or schooling is the only way you can be intelligent.

I say to them, "A smart man wouldn't waste 4 years of his life and gather a massive debt to work at a fast food joint or something similiar"

Although, you are better off having one than not, but only sightly.
 

snafupants

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I say to them, "A smart man wouldn't waste 4 years of his life and gather a massive debt to work at a fast food joint or something similiar"

That's so true - college has all of the trappings of an economic bubble. :phear:
 

Dr. Freeman

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That's so true - college has all of the trappings of an economic bubble. :phear:

Just make sure you are studying something that will pay off later.
 

snafupants

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Just make sure you are studying something that will pay off later.

Valid point. It would be more apt to say that liberal arts degrees at overpriced private institutions are out. I remember reading that tuition has increased six fold compared to thirty years ago. How to fund or countervail that tuition hike?! That's it - loans! This is occurring simultaneously with more folks attaining the proverbially useless English BA and scarcer job opportunities. Good idea guys. :rolleyes:
 

Dr. Freeman

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Valid point. It would be more apt to say that liberal arts degrees at overpriced private institutions are out. I remember reading that tuition has increased six fold compared to thirty years ago. How to fund or countervail that tuition hike?! That's it - loans! This is occurring simultaneously with more folks attaining English BAs and scarcer job opportunities. Good idea guys. :rolleyes:

There's a reason I am a physics major. (I love physics) Hard science majors usually have job opportunities after their undergraduate studies. (I'm not stopping until my name is █████████████ PhD.)
 

Niclmaki

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Just make sure you are studying something that will pay off later.

Ah yes, but it doesn't always follow that what you're interested in studying will pay off.
If you're going just for the pay off you're one strange fellow. Even if you are, it's not a guarentee any more.
I would rather have a short life doing what I like, than going on doing something I don't like in order to go on doing something I don't like.
 

Dr. Freeman

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Ah yes, but it doesn't always follow that what you're interested in studying will pay off.
If you're going just for the pay off you're one strange fellow. Even if you are, it's not a guarentee any more.
I would rather have a short life doing what I like, than going on doing something I don't like in order to go on doing something I don't like.

As I said in a prior post, I am a physics major because I enjoy physics. The fact that it can be a lucrative field after graduate school was secondary to this. We do have a few too many liberal arts majors running around, though.
 

ElvenVeil

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For the sake of answering something else than 'NO' : I believe that there is a corelation between educataion and intelligence. I.E the avarage IQ score of the students participating is often higher the further they got in the educational system. From personal experience, I would also say that the stupid students weren't so abundant at university compared to highscool or elementary school
 

snafupants

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We do have a few too many liberal arts majors running around, though.

Maybe that stems from disparate views of college's purpose. :confused:

Some people see college as makeshift apprenticeship and some view it as an edifying intellectual enterprise. Some people use college to play sports, get laid, or avoid work.

Other people think college is one big party. :D
 

addictedartist

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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Doken was told to go on a long journey to another
monastery. He was much upset, because he felt that this trip would
interrupt his studies for many months. So he said to his friend,
the advanced student Sogen:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"Please ask permission to come with me on the trip. There are so
many things I do not know; but if you come along we can discuss
them - in this way I can learn as we travel."
[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"All right," said Sogen. "But let me ask you a question: If you
are hungry, what satisfaction to you if I eat rice? If your feet
are lame, what comfort to you if I go on merrily? If your bladder
is full, what relief to you if I piss?"
[/FONT]
 

InvisibleJim

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Is intelligence shown by applying knowledge?

If yes then they could correlate.
 

eagor

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rarely and the correlation is usually circumstantial
 

EditorOne

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Educational achievement is not conclusive proof of either intelligence or knowledge. However, there are, to state the obvious, a great many intelligent and knowledgeable people who are well educated.

And whether a particular degree can get you a job in your field is really not a discussion likely to produce any insights, at least in the United States economy right now. Not only are jobs scarce, but traditional fields of endeavor are disappearing and college-level "training" is having a tough time weeding out old courses and devising new ones to meet a changing society's needs.

Besides, when did "successful education" depend on a trade school definition like getting a job in a particular field? If education doesn't develop your ability to think, adapt, figure it out, etc., is it really the best education?
 

rachilde

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The terms are not completely synonymous, but I would argue a person who has no interest in either formal or informal education is not and will never be intelligent. After all, a person who refuses to educate him or herself despite knowing he or she possesses the capacity to understand such information is a person who willingly keeps him or herself in a state of ignorance. Those who are willfully ignorant have decided that ignorance is more valuable than knowledge. Those who make that decision are unintelligent--and, not only unintelligent, but dangerous to society, particularly societies founded on principles of democracy.

Studies show IQs are highly malleable figures that can be increased through practice. Similarly, the ability to think critically and logically can be dramatically improved through practice. Educational institutions provide environments where such skills can be practiced regularly; and, in fact, schools often demand their students to practice such skills daily. Though it is not necessary to reap these benefits by studying at formal institutions of higher education, it would be ridiculous to believe individuals who do not pursue the development of such skills at even informal capacities are generally as intelligent as people who regularly seek to develop these skills at informal or formal capacities. Studies also suggest that intelligence can decrease over time if no activities are taken to maintain it.

In other words, a person cannot expect to sit on his or her ass all day and still expect to be called intelligent. While you don't have to attend college, you do have engage in some activities in order to utilize and develop intelligence. A child who scores in the above average category at 8 but decides to never touch a book or attend a lecture or even enroll in school again will not be as intelligent as a child who has diligently developed his or her average intelligence when they both run into each other again at age 30.

I also think it would be ridiculous of me to argue that education has had no impact on my overall intelligence. While I have scored very high in intelligence tests since childhood, I believe education has had a consistently beneficial effect on my intelligence. My ability to comprehend texts and analyze arguments is much greater today than it was 7 years ago, before I had attended college or law school. My intellectual abilities and skills have increased as I have continued to participate in activities that have encouraged the development of my intellect. While I do not think formal education is necessary for such development, I must argue that education of some sort--formal or informal--is necessary for the development of intelligence. You don't have to go to college or grad school, but you do have to do something that exercises and challenges your mind in order to become or remain highly intelligent.

I would also point out it is not necessary for a person to endure several years of schooling in order to be highly educated. Autodidacts are often highly educated--and yet, they often do not possess formal recognitions of their education. Leonardo da Vinci was an impressive autodidact, for example, and I think the phrases 'highly educated' and 'highly intelligent' would apply to him in equal amounts. However, I would also argue he was so highly intelligent because of his desire and ability to self-educate. Similarly, writers like Borges, Hemingway, and Lovecraft were autodidacts, and I would argue they would not have been such intelligent authors if they had not educated themselves at all. In short, I think it is impossible for intelligence to exist outside of education--but I do not think education exists solely within the confines of schoolyards.
 

LarsMac

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The smartest guy that I ever met never finished high school.

Anecdotal, I know, but what else really needs to be said?
 

snafupants

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The terms are not completely synonymous, but I would argue a person who has no interest in either formal or informal education is not and will never be intelligent.

@rachilde

This discussion is about recognized, typically bricks and mortar, formal eduction though. :D

the ability to think critically and logically can be dramatically improved through practice. Educational institutions provide environments where such skills can be practiced regularly

I disagree vis-a-vis the second part for two reasons - academia doesn't monopolize critical thinking nor does academia stimulate minds much.

Especially in the younger years, compulsory education is predicated upon rote memorization.

I also think it would be ridiculous of me to argue that education has had no impact on my overall intelligence.
Impact? Has your intelligence decreased thanks to formalized education? :D

There might be a correlation between education and intelligence but it wouldn't be causal.

I'm sure the multiple regression would reveal that smart kids are more apt to attain higher degrees, for perhaps multifarious reasons, rather than the pursuit of higher degrees somehow conferring more rigorous thinking, which is what you're ostensibly arguing. :slashnew:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
 

pernoctator

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This discussion is about recognized, typically bricks and mortar, formal eduction though. :D

Solitaire U never actually said that though, did he?



My ability to comprehend texts and analyze arguments is much greater today than it was 7 years ago, before I had attended college or law school. My intellectual abilities and skills have increased as I have continued to participate in activities that have encouraged the development of my intellect.

Of course to verify that, you'll have to become 7 years younger, not go to school for 7 years, then compare the results.


While I do not think formal education is necessary for such development, I must argue that education of some sort--formal or informal--is necessary for the development of intelligence. You don't have to go to college or grad school, but you do have to do something that exercises and challenges your mind in order to become or remain highly intelligent.

Isn't education an accumulation of knowledge, and can't you exercise and challenge your mind without accumulating any new knowledge?
 

Psychic Child

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What is intelligence?
It is relative.
It Depends on your relative definition
 

Psychic Child

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If I think Intelligence is relative and you dont then that one factor can determine that intelligence is relative.
Even if one living being have a different view about intelligence, then only that factor makes the intelligence relative.
There are many dumb guys who thinks " ooh he got AA in school test. He is very intelligent "
So relative to them that boy is intelligent.
But relative to me that boy is not intelligent or that boy's intelligent cannot be determined by AA in school test.
Again I said " Dumb guys " , that dumb was relative to me.
Those same guys may be intelligent according to the same categories of guy.


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Be in harmony
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snafupants

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If I think Intelligence is relative and you dont then that one factor can determine that intelligence is relative.
Even if one living being have a different view about intelligence, then only that factor makes the intelligence relative.
There are many dumb guys who thinks " ooh he got AA in school test. He is very intelligent "
So relative to them that boy is intelligent.
But relative to me that boy is not intelligent or that boy's intelligent cannot be determined by AA in school test.
Again I said " Dumb guys " , that dumb was relative to me.
Those same guys may be intelligent according to the same categories of guy.

You're missing the point. These are totally different tests (matrix reasoning versus riddles) that correlate with one another because of the underlying g factor. If intelligence were truly relative, then different tests would display divergent scores. That's not the case.
 

Psychic Child

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The problem is we are talking about two different things though apparently it seems different.
If there is an absolute truth then that is relative too.
Its a contradiction but it is true.
So among all the relative intelligence there must must be a true intelligence.
And the tests determine this true intelligence, most probably or a partially true intelligent.

But whatever school tests and tests like that do not determine intelligence thats for sure.


But Again we can say there are different type of intelligent.
Like intelligent in running.
Intelligent in drawing.
May be the term do not fit, but whatever.
Everyone is intelligent in their own way.
everyone is a genius.
If someone is very stupid.
Then that one is a genius of stupidity.;)
 

snafupants

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But Again we can say there are different type of intelligent.
Like intelligent in running.
Intelligent in drawing.
May be the term do not fit, but whatever.
Everyone is intelligent in their own way.
everyone is a genius.
If someone is very stupid.
Then that one is a genius of stupidity.;)

OK Howard Gardner. Somehow I still feel that kinesthetic ability is orthogonal to g and intelligence. Am I wrong? Should the NBA and NASA be combined into one organization? NABA? Neil Armstrong for three from way downtown. He shoots...and he scores! :D
 

pernoctator

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The National Aeronautics and Moon Basketball League of America (or NAMBLA) reminds you that everyone is a genius.


If there is an absolute truth then that is relative too.
Its a contradiction but it is true.

wat
 

Psychic Child

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watt do you expect from a senile old man other than nonsense :borg:
 
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