Intuition

[Fedayeen]

"Women's intuition" vs MBTI Type intuition came up in a conversation. Which led to me looking up the exact definition of the word, Which is as follows

in⋅tu⋅i⋅tion   [in-too-ish-uhn, -tyoo-] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. direct perception of truth, fact, etc., independent of any reasoning process; immediate apprehension.
2. a fact, truth, etc., perceived in this way.
3. a keen and quick insight.
4. the quality or ability of having such direct perception or quick insight.
5. Philosophy.
a. an immediate cognition of an object not inferred or determined by a previous cognition of the same object.
b. any object or truth so discerned.
c. pure, untaught, noninferential knowledge.
6. Linguistics. the ability of the native speaker to make linguistic judgments, as of the grammaticality, ambiguity, equivalence, or nonequivalence of sentences, deriving from the speaker's native-language competence.

That definition made me realize that either I was incorrect in my assumption of the word as it is used in MBTI Type things, or that it holds a different meaning for MBTI Type things.

INTPs use both N and T together to reach logical reason based conclusions, yet that definition is clear that intuition wouldn't be apart of any reason based process.

So either i'm seriously confused here, or there is basically a double standard in the definition of the word as to how it is used with MBTI.

 

[Oblivious]

I believe the mbti idea of intuition is more of a thinking process that is not dependent on physical or tangible concepts, but more abstract ones. For instance an imaginary number.

 

[chocolate]

The N is usually credited for making connections between things, and speaking from my own experience, I sometimes do that very quickly and without knowing why, so it could refer to 3 or 4.

It's not so much independent of reason, as upon reflection, I will always find a reason why I connected them in the first place, so it can't be independent...but it is not the same as reasoning something through to get the answer either.

I think of it like the N sees the answer or idea first (without consciously reasoning) and then fills in the steps while the S does the steps first to get to the answer.

Maybe that made no sense.

 

[Gorgrim]

intuition: my definition would be: process of putting facts together to generate new ideas / understanding...... how does that work? im such a mess when dealing with what these processes do in a well articulated way, + the differences in Ni and Ne :S

 

[Dissident]

I think of it like the N sees the answer or idea first (without consciously reasoning) and then fills in the steps while the S does the steps first to get to the answer.

Maybe that made no sense.

It did. I think that for intuiton to perceive a pattern, make projections (to make predictions), etc. it has to analyze many different possibilities at once, this paralel processing is made by the unconscious, which is more suited for it. After the solution was found it emerges to the conscious mind without you knowing exactly how.

Maybe you will find this interesting
http://www.unconsciouslab.nl/public...The deliberation without attention effect.pdf

which was posted in this thread
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=1877

 

[hopefulmonster]

From what I understand Intuition in the MBTI sense is still largely mysterious. I believe Isabel myers proposed that we used subverted sensing on crack(paraphrasing). I'm guessing we just use some subconcsious processing brain circuit like described in the book blink.

 

[Ermine]

Intuition in MBTI terms is basically making connections and having quick insight. I think the expression "mother's intuition" is the real misnomer. While I may not have any experience as a mother, this sort of intuition seems more a product of the feeling function combined with how a mother is emotionally in tune with her children's needs.

 

[chocolate]

It did. I think that for intuiton to perceive a pattern, make projections (to make predictions), etc. it has to analyze many different possibilities at once, this paralel processing is made by the unconscious, which is more suited for it. After the solution was found it emerges to the conscious mind without you knowing exactly how.

Maybe you will find this interesting
http://www.unconsciouslab.nl/publications/Dijksterhuis%20Bos%20Nordgren%20Van%20Baaren%20-%20The%20deliberation%20without%20attention%20effect.pdf

which was posted in this thread
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=1877

Very interesting indeed. I did not know that concious thought was unable to hold the same amount of information as subconscious thought.

One place I know this however is in relationships. There's always that voice in your head telling you it's over, and then you can analyze as much as you want it always ends anyway!

 

[Oblivious]

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it is difficult for us to hold conversations? Most of our thoughts are unconscious and would then require a greater amount of deliberate effort to parse accurately into words.

 

[hopefulmonster]

Perhaps this is one of the reasons that it is difficult for us to hold conversations? Most of our thoughts are unconscious and would then require a greater amount of deliberate effort to parse accurately into words.

our problems conversing with sensors is probably because we are too"fast" for them. We seem to use sensing just at an ultra fast pace. Sensors think in discrete steps 1234 etc an intuitive would just skip the first three or four steps entirely leaving the sensor in the dust with the impression that we are making stuff up. I guess the difference in pace can be attributed to them spending time to check their thinking against what they can directly sense while we just keep skipping along not caring about"reality". I can almost feel the"gap" between our thinking when I deal with sensors.

We also seem to subvert our thinking which is why intuitives often seem so mysterious and hare-brained. Our thoughts seem to literally come out of nowhere.


This may also explain why high IQ sensors often test as iNtuitives. They move at our pace but don't subvert their thinking.

 

[Anling]

our problems conversing with sensors is probably because we are too"fast" for them. We seem to use sensing just at an ultra fast pace. Sensors think in discrete steps 1234 etc an intuitive would just skip the first three or four steps entirely leaving the sensor in the dust with the impression that we are making stuff up. I guess the difference in pace can be attributed to them spending time to check their thinking against what they can directly sense while we just keep skipping along not caring about"reality". I can almost feel the"gap" between our thinking when I deal with sensors.

We also seem to subvert our thinking which is why intuitives often seem so mysterious and hare-brained. Our thoughts seem to literally come out of nowhere.

I definitely have this problem often. With my roommate this happened a lot. I would have to stop and admit that the whole train of thought that made my comment logical was completely in my head. Thus my comments tended to seem completely random. At least we got plenty of laughs from it.

 

[hopefulmonster]

I definitely have this problem often. With my roommate this happened a lot. I would have to stop and admit that the whole train of thought that made my comment logical was completely in my head. Thus my comments tended to seem completely random. At least we got plenty of laughs from it.

Yeah I constantly make comments that are based off of weird associations. I will often chain 4-5 seemingly unrelated things together and then make a comment based off that chain. Problem is no one can understand it. This is a big problem with my joke telling.

I watched an episode of law and order the other night and it involved a man who was castrated and then set on fire. I turned to my mom(istp) and said"well he was clearly a sex crazed tibetan monk". She just gave me this WTF look until I explained that castration was linked to him being sex crazed and that the monk thing was a reference to to saigon street. I thought it was funny ><

 

[Anling]

I watched an episode of law and order the other night and it involved a man who was castrated and then set on fire. I turned to my mom and said"well he was clearly a sex crazed tibetan monk".

Well, I laughed as soon as I read it.

 

[Ermine]

Yeah I constantly make comments that are based off of weird associations. I will often chain 4-5 seemingly unrelated things together and then make a comment based off that chain. Problem is no one can understand it. This is a big problem with my joke telling.

I watched an episode of law and order the other night and it involved a man who was castrated and then set on fire. I turned to my mom(istp) and said"well he was clearly a sex crazed tibetan monk". She just gave me this WTF look until I explained that castration was linked to him being sex crazed and that the monk thing was a reference to to saigon street. I thought it was funny ><

This happens to me all the time. Unless I'm with my best friend that knows much of what I know and makes similar intuitive leaps, they all assume I'm being random. It's often hard to say if I'm being inconsiderate or if they're being slow when I have communication trouble like that.

And my dad's an ISTP, and it's often hard to remember that while we are so much alike, he still doesn't understand my thought processes.

 

[Fedayeen]

This happens to me all the time. Unless I'm with my best friend that knows much of what I know and makes similar intuitive leaps, they all assume I'm being random. It's often hard to say if I'm being inconsiderate or if they're being slow when I have communication trouble like that.

And my dad's an ISTP, and it's often hard to remember that while we are so much alike, he still doesn't understand my thought processes.

Something similar happens to me, but usually it is me and him talking with other people too. Those other people get lost very fast. Of course us talking very fast doesn't help them follow, and the puzzled looks on their faces cracks me up every time. He is more considerate though, and tries to explain to them what is going on.....when he realizes what happened. Which is normally after the entire conversation is over or someone interrupts.

(He is an INTJ BTW)

 

[Ulysses]

I'm a sensor, and I too have quick insight and am excellent at identifying patterns, making projections and making connections. Also, I assure you that I'm not exactly what you'd call "slow". I don't mean to brag here, but I've yet to meet someone who can out think or out pace me.

My question: what sets an intuitive apart from me?

 

[snowqueen]

Are you strongly sensor? My daughter is IXTX and she is brilliant at thinking fast and at sticking with a problem step by step - she can think up wild ideas but likes to finish a project. She is equally brilliant at maths and physics as art and english. She can outthink me easily (yeah yeah that may not be hard I know . She can plan out and organise her revision and stick to it mostly but doesn't get stressed if she decides to chill out and watch trash TV.

Not only that but she is really beautiful and sweet natured!

So is that like you? (beautiful and sweet natured aside)(not implying your're not of course)

 

[Concojones]

I'm a sensor, and I too have quick insight and am excellent at identifying patterns, making projections and making connections. Also, I assure you that I'm not exactly what you'd call "slow". I don't mean to brag here, but I've yet to meet someone who can out think or out pace me.

My question: what sets an intuitive apart from me?

Are you fast with any kind of problem? Sensors are faster when it comes to practical solutions, and intuitives are faster with out of the box thinking (I think).
Anyhow, what you describe still sounds like N to me, which is entirely possible, even for 'sensors'. How much (%) of a sensor are you anyway (echo Snowqueen)?

 

[didyouknow]

I think the main difference is that while Sensors are good at getting things done quickly and efficiently, they often don't seem to think about alternatives much. I think they think inside the box and that's good a lot of the time (it sure is a lot more useful). Intuitives may think outside of the box but sometimes we have a hard time confining ourselves to it when necessary.

Intuition when shared with someone else is awesome. One such moment was when I was in maths the other day and my friend and I ended up in a big theoretical discussion about the nature of the time-space continuum and it's relevance to philosophy. We ended up in big trouble because the we ended up so excited about this idea that we were probably almost shouting.

 

[Ulysses]

I don't know whether I'm a strong or borderline sensor. I consider myself to be very practical and like to get things done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. I do think about alternatives, but only in the practical sense. I can also think out of the box when necessary.

Snowcone: Out of the four subjects you've mentioned there, I'm only good at two: physics and english. And yes, your daughter does sound a lot like me when it comes to revision time.

 

[preilemus]

snowcone?


lol

 

[Venture]

snowcone?


lol

'Glovehead' lol

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[preilemus]

at least you got it right. slyguy called me "Glovehand" once

EDIT: hahaha snowqueen changed her avatar

 

[Concojones]

I don't know whether I'm a strong or borderline sensor. I consider myself to be very practical and like to get things done as quickly and as efficiently as possible. I do think about alternatives, but only in the practical sense. I can also think out of the box when necessary.

You could be a Sensor with relatively strong Intuitive functions. This is not a contradiction (see functions). I consider myself Thinker & Perceiver, with relatively strong Feeling and Judging functions, which pop out with a vengeance in certain circumstances (and probably have been developed in life in similar circumstances).

 

[snowqueen]

at least you got it right. slyguy called me "Glovehand" once

EDIT: hahaha snowqueen changed her avatar

I have this overwhelming desire to call you 'Glovepuppet'