INTROTHREAD vol1

[headspace]

Hello.

Libertarian / Objectivist

Chaotic neutral

Probable NTP of the ambiverted variety.

 

[peoplesuck]

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[Alias]

Welcome! I'm Alias, and you've reached the INTP forum. I hope you can enjoy our many threads, as they encompass substantial amounts of topics.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

Hail Satan

Welcome!

 

[Black Rose]

Welcome to this forum.

Just want to say that I am a techno libertarian.
The only way to change the system is to build a better system to replace it.
A friend told me that soon money will no longer be necessary for most things.
It is all about communication bandwidth to allow the flow of signals. Shannons law.
Networks are the solution not revolution.
Violence is caused by miscommunication signals (a form of damaged psychology).
I hope someday I can get off SSDI and become productive.
I start school on Jan 5.

I am Lawful Good.

 

[Absurdity]

Hello.

What is it about Libertarianism / Objectivism that blows your hair back?

No agenda. Just curious.

 

[headspace]

Hello.

What is it about Libertarianism / Objectivism that blows your hair back?

No agenda. Just curious.

I learned about objectivism after reading The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.
I wanted to know more because I found the protagonist, Howard Roark, to be a character of exceptional quality and generally quite relatable. Throughout the story there are many times when the reader wants to pity Howard but one must force oneself to quell this emotion as Howard himself does not find his situation pitiable, no matter how dismal it becomes or who lets him down. I felt as if he embodied all of the best attributes that I see in myself (or wish that I had) without any of the weaknesses that generally hold us back from excellence. Upon further inquiry I discovered Rand's philosophy of objectivism and that this character was modeled as her version of the ideal man as defined by this philosophy.

Anyway that was my introduction into objectivism. The basic tenets are really quite straightforward but the principles of self-actualization, focusing on reality, and a solemn reluctance to compromise one's ideals really embody the type of life I want to live.

In general, I resonated with the basic ideas that the pursuit of happiness is paramount in life and that selfishness and egoism are truly virtuous as they empower the individual to realize his full potential. To contrast with this, in the novel, a good majority of the people Roark encounters decry him as immoral/amoral, antisocial, a plague upon society, selfish to a fault, and most do whatever is in their power to push him down at every opportunity.

My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.

Incidentally, the basic principle behind objectivism is really not a whole lot different from contemporary Satanism, which was established about twenty years after. There are some glaring discrepancies however many of the cornerstones are similarly oriented.

As for Libertarianism, it is a political philosophy that essentially augments these tenets of objectivism, identifying the individual as supreme and personal freedom as among the highest order of importance. There is the general acknowledgement that every person is responsible for himself in life and life has given us the liberty to make choices, so it is the choices that we make which dictate our course of action.

I relate to it personally because I am often depressed in life and frequently lament about my sordid past, holding others accountable for my misery. At the same time I am a born rebel, antisocial, anti-authoritarian, and die-hard individualist. As such, I must reconcile the "pursuit of happiness" as virtuous while forsaking my tendencies to blame the past, my parents, etc for any misgivings.

It's a real challenge to hold yourself accountable, for both the good and the bad. Society wants us to essentially bear the burden and share the glory. For myself personally, the quest for virtue and happiness essentially require an unyielding, coldly logical, black & white sense of accountability. It's equally difficult to embrace success as it is to overcome failure and our minds are conditioned to accept failure as virtuous, natural, and an essential part of living.

 

[Black Rose]

Its nice to think we have no weakness but then this can make some people shape people for their weakness which they assume they should just get over it. Some people do, like me, get over it even with people who make me weaker and weaker and I have looked at this from that perspective where you just want them to change because the only way you can be who you are is to not look at what you could have been. So I understand where this comes from. It is fear to accept what they say about you, that you are not strong and to deny it but when fear is all you know then when you do become stronger you will understand how to build people up and not tear them down. Others are not as strong as you are but in some ways they are stronger. Can you really be stronger if you do not realize that they put you down because they are afraid. That is why they do it. Do you want them to become worse than you are or to become exactly the way you are. When some people look towards objectivism they attack the wrong people. They think that they can neglect to understand that person's fear or ignorance. And it is because when they discover it they use it only for themselves at first. But then they get past that and start looking at what fear is and no longer look down on others. If you are looked down on you will use objectivism to justify the same thinking. And always lookout for people who will attack you. And then attack those whom are fearful. Because fear is the source of why they look down on you. In my fear I held back as much as I could. To try to understand rejection. So that I would not become the rejector. I do not tell people to just get over it as much as I wanted to although I have had outbursts with my family. I never used what I knew about people against them. To betray them.

Sometimes we would tease John in Seventh grade with dirty joke. The kid who did it with me was the only person who hanged out with me. But the other kids on the field trip in the hotel room started playing a game where the spat on me and I had to sleep on the floor and latter when I woke up I found a tray of urine next to me. After the teacher knocked on the door I took a shower and went to a different group. I did not hate them but I just was left to think about John. And how I looked down on him. I was 13. I think those kids did that because they had poor parental environments. I did not hang out with anyone until 11 grade. And those people I barely talked to. If I had had someone to talk to who cared I might not have done what I did to John. But many objectivists do not come to that point that I did because they do not understand what is in their subconscious. So they act like I did with what they discover. They act out what they think will make them strong because they do not realise they also look down on others. A famous objectivist one said on his show. Why should I have empathy for people who do not have empathy for me. It seems he never hurt anyone and others hurt him. But I have been hurt and have hurt others but I realised when I was 13 that I cannot just blame those people who hurt me not continue to hurt others. Some people never hurt anyone nor were ever hurt in a deep way. They are the true objectivists because they have no bias to use it the wrong way. As an excuse. If I know that I can't make the right decisions I can't blame others for their wrong decisions.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I would say selfishness is really the basis of correct information as envisioned by Animekitty in his "network theory" of morality/health.

 

[headspace]

I would say selfishness is really the basis of correct information as envisioned by Animekitty in his "network theory" of morality/health.

I'm sorry but this has gone over my head.

Could you break this conclusion down into its component parts?

 

[Brontosaurie]

I'm sorry but this has gone over my head.

Could you break this conclusion down into its component parts?

You profess objectivism in the sense of egoist philosophy.

Animekitty professes "techno-libertarianism" and says it's important to eliminate miscommunication.

I point out the compatibility of your theories, being that claims of non-egoism could be considered a source of miscommunication.