INTPs with ADD?

[Pilot the Cannibal]

I was wondering how common it was for INTPs to get diagnosed with ADD (or ADHD), or if any of you people have it or know an INTP that has it.

I got diagnosed with ADD when I was a junior. My three siblings had it, as well, but they all got diagnosed when they were in first grade or kindergarten. Even though they were taking meds they still didn't get very good grades. I went to the doctor for disorganization, shyness, generally being a spaceshot, and because my average grades were way out of whack with really high SAT scores. (The shyness was mostly a result of my being a spaceshot.) Once I started taking meds my grades went from Bs and and the occasional C to straight As, and have stayed that way ever since. I'm also a lot less "shy" (as in I actually pay attention to what's going on with things/people in the real world.)

I was just wondering if anyone else here has ADD, thinks they might have it, or knows someone that has it, and if you think that the way INTPs are pretty quiet/introverted and like to learn might cover it up, resulting in a delayed diagnosis (or none at all.)

 

[intpz]

I'd call it misdiagnosis instead. Although, I'm not saying that this is the case for everyone, and currently I'm having in mind only INTPs.

I can't keep attention to things that bore me, but I can be extremely concentrated when doing things that I'm interested in. I've also noticed that a lot of the "symptoms" are the opposition of what an S type do. A few symptoms are also related to being an extrovert.

I think that most INTPs could be "diagnosed" with ADD due to those reasons. Some extrovert types as well, especially EN types. I wonder if such "diseases" actually exist, as there are people who do not think alike, a.k.a. 16 personality types. I wonder if some of these mental illnesses are simply different personalities, something that certain types didn't like and wanted to frame on something that "isn't normal." Just some thoughts, not implying anything, as I don't know that many people...

 

[Pilot the Cannibal]

Well, if you look at the brain scan of a person with ADD, they receive information differently than a scan of an average person's brain (certain information pathways are blocked when the frontal lobes receive information.) Also the meds (in low doses) are supposed to have a calming effect on ADD people, as opposed to the normal effect they have on other people (which is they make them really hyperactive.)

That being said, I definitely see your point. I think that everyone agrees that ADD is over-diagnosed (it's kind of the go-to diagnosis for most doctors.) I sometimes think that they only diagnosed me because everyone else in my family had it, and it's supposed to be genetic...so because I had a couple "symptoms" they just diagnosed me with it. (Also...I got diagnosed with "overfocused" ADD...which just sounds goddamn stupid to me because it's supposed to be a lack of attention...but apparently it involves "perseveration" (hyperfocusing) on the wrong things and not noticing anything else, which is still, technically, "attention deficit...")

Yes, I am aware of how dumb that sounds. My doctor said it, not me.

So I don't know if I have ADD or not, or if it exists as a "real" disease or not, but I'm glad I got diagnosed with it because ever since then my life has (for the most part) gotten much better and much easier.

 

[intpz]

Well nobody makes brain scans to diagnose it. That, in a way, was my point, the misdiagnosis.

As for you, the only way to know is to get a brain scan. We can't tell you if you have it or not. But I assume you don't, considering the mentality of NTs and/or INTPs.

 

[travelnjones]

doesn't Aspergers' Syndrome seem more apt for us? I can sit for hours reading up on a subject that I find interesting.

 

[intpz]

Asperger's Syndrome... Poor social skills - applicable to introverts. Everything else seems okay to me, but I wouldn't say that I'm anywhere close to Asperger's syndrome. Pretty much the only thing is poor social skills, which is explained by the fact that I'm an introvert... And the fact that I'm not interested in who's won some sport event or that somebody's sister's dad's friend's cousin's wife had a black baby when they both were white...

Asperger's syndrome is more like a mental illness, therefore I don't think that INTPs should be mistaken for that. Unless of course one symptom is enough for the psychiatrist.

 

[Pilot the Cannibal]

Heh, maybe I don't have it. I still like Adderall tho

Well Aspergers is an autism spectrum disorder, so I think that'd be different than just plain introversion. I think that people with Aspergers can actually be extroverts, they just don't pick up on social cues and have trouble reading social cues (so as a result they end up acting more shy/introverted.) But I can definitely see an INTP being misdiagnosed with Aspergers because the introversion will make them socially withdrawn and the thinking part will make them seem like they can't express emotions properly. I think the real difference, however, would be whether they cannot understand social cues (Aspergers) or if they simply choose to spend more time alone/choose to ignore societal norms because they don't see the validity.

 

[intpz]

I think I bordered that it was only one symptom, every other symptom, more than a few of them, can't be explained by introversion. So don't ignore half of my post.

I think you can't say "you have Asperger's" because you have one symptom, especially the one that can be explained by introversion. If a psychologist does that, he should have his license revoked and be put into a position more suitable for him, like a cashier.

 

[Pilot the Cannibal]

Hehe sorry, didn't mean to ignore part of your post. I was trying to respond to both simultaneously.

And yeah, I agree with what you're saying. Psychologists (and just doctors in general) usually just jump quickly to a diagnosis and make rapid assumptions based on what seems to be wrong, when in reality, nothing is really "wrong" at all, that's just the individual's personality. I think diagnoses (like ADD and Aspergers) are just doctors trying to appease concerned parents by offering them a quick fix to whatever they don't like about their kid.

 

[Proletar]

I'm also diagnsed with ADD - not ADHD.

I think that ADD is just a way to diagnose certain personality types, because both descriptions (INTP and ADD) sounds alike. There is a big canyon between psychology and psychiatry that shouldn't be there.

 

[Beholder]

When I was little I did a test to diagnose it, where a box would appear on the screen every few seconds and inside it was another box, you had to click a button every time the inside box was in a different place or something. I found a pattern to it, but it kept changing so I had a bunch of miss-clicks and a few times I didn't click at all. About half way through it switched to a completely new pattern and I lost interest. I was diagnosed with ADD, although I highly doubt I really have it.
They gave me Ritalin, which only helped me block out the droning of my teachers, made me lose my appetite and made me depressed.

 

[pjoa09]

When I was little I did a test to diagnose it, where a box would appear on the screen every few seconds and inside it was another box, you had to click a button every time the inside box was in a different place or something. I found a pattern to it, but it kept changing so I had a bunch of miss-clicks and a few times I didn't click at all. About half way through it switched to a completely new pattern and I lost interest. I was diagnosed with ADD, although I highly doubt I really have it.
They gave me Ritalin, which only helped me block out the droning of my teachers, made me lose my appetite and made me depressed.

Doesn't ritalin work like meth? Get more dopamine in your head?

 

[Proletar]

Ritalin, unlike amphetamine, doesn't affect (mess with) the dopamine-system. That's why it's preferred.

 

[Chronomar]

I have never been diagnosed with ADD, though I was described as "manic" and "never stops talking, even to herself" and "does not stop fidgeting" and "does not follow directions" as a child. To anyone who thinks I was this way because of lack of punishment for it, I would point out I went through the school system, which did its very best to punish me for all of it. Evidently I either refused to "improve" or it couldn't be helped.

Really, it is hard to be sure of any of these diagnoses in this day of "modern psychology". Not that the previous psychologies were that much better (actually, worse). It seems like the OP like many experience these kind of conundrums.

For these sorts of grey area psychological "conditions" it is pretty obvious we don't know enough about how any of it works. I'll take the scientific statis quo for what it's worth until we do understand better, but that's not to say it isn't an area that needs improvement.

Then there is always the specter of becoming more like the symptoms listed in a psychological condition with which one is diagnosed because of knowing about it / thinking you have it, when perhaps not all of it really fit.

Recently I've been thinking perhaps being symptom-focused would be better.
Not "what are you"? but what do you do/think/feel? and do we know what chemically /physically/emotionally causes that, or what lifestyle changes could alleviate those symptoms? That seems more problem-solution focused, and perhaps more resembles the truth of how things are.

That being said I was diagnosed with "mild bipolar disorder", aka cyclothymia, at 15, but I never really agreed with that because I thought the school district's psychiatrist wasn't especially good and I wasn't particularly happy about having to go to her either. (Middle school...)

After a while though, it seemed that when I focused on becoming aware of how my behavior changed over time that by understanding and working on directly mitigating/managing the worse sides of the symptoms of mental unrest (whether it be cyclothymia or not), everything improved--life, the world in general as I perceived it, health.


So I guess there is value in being told about a mental condition. It can be a way of trying to be more self-aware (in the positive sense), just as we use MBTI and the like.

 

[pjoa09]

Ritalin, unlike amphetamine, doesn't affect (mess with) the dopamine-system. That's why it's preferred.

I have done my research.

It's the same as amphetamine.

They are just two different synthetic compounds that do the same thing.

Amphetamines are cleaner, stronger, and more long lasting.

Ritalins are legal in most places.

Amphetamines are not. It's banned here. ((

Meth and coke are just too damn strong.

Coke is a short high.

Meth is Charizard as Adderall is Charmander.

 

[Variform]

Well, if you look at the brain scan of a person with ADD, they receive information differently than a scan of an average person's brain (certain information pathways are blocked when the frontal lobes receive information.) Also the meds (in low doses) are supposed to have a calming effect on ADD people, as opposed to the normal effect they have on other people (which is they make them really hyperactive.)

But isn't there a difference in effect on ADD'ers and ADHD'ers? I am not sure, I need to check this.

That being said, I definitely see your point. I think that everyone agrees that ADD is over-diagnosed (it's kind of the go-to diagnosis for most doctors.) I sometimes think that they only diagnosed me because everyone else in my family had it, and it's supposed to be genetic...so because I had a couple "symptoms" they just diagnosed me with it. (Also...I got diagnosed with "overfocused" ADD...which just sounds goddamn stupid to me because it's supposed to be a lack of attention...but apparently it involves "perseveration" (hyperfocusing) on the wrong things and not noticing anything else, which is still, technically, "attention deficit...")

Nah, they phrased it wrongly or they didn't know what they were talking about. But ADHD research is fast and thick and today we know more than a week ago.

Hyperfocusing means you get into a zone of total concentration on a task and it is hard to snap you out of it. It can be reading a book, assembling an Ikea cupboard or playing a game. Hyperfocus has nothing to do with the wrong things. With that they just mean that in class you may focus on the wrong thing and it is 'wrong' because the teacher demands your attention to be elsewhere.

Maybe they meant with overfocus the fact that as an ADD'er you daydream, which is I guess an attention issue. Dopamine regulates attention after all, as well as concentration and motivation.

Yes, I am aware of how dumb that sounds. My doctor said it, not me.

So I don't know if I have ADD or not, or if it exists as a "real" disease or not, but I'm glad I got diagnosed with it because ever since then my life has (for the most part) gotten much better and much easier.

It exists as a real disease, like you said, brain scans don't lie. There are some threads on here about ADHD with some links, e.g. to a lecture by a researcher that shows nice graphs of the results, what ADHD is and what actually happens in the brain.

Don't be fooled by naysayers. There are always anti-psychiatry voices and one of their spear points these days is ADHD.

Research is being done to enhance diagnostic criteria. The DSM-5 should be an improvement.

Btw, I should have a diagnosis of it soon, so I hope. I need medication because I have this dopamine issue and it is pretty bad.

 

[Variform]

I'm also diagnsed with ADD - not ADHD.

I think that ADD is just a way to diagnose certain personality types, because both descriptions (INTP and ADD) sounds alike. There is a big canyon between psychology and psychiatry that shouldn't be there.

I'd like some research done on that. Let's find some INTP's and do a thorough comparative study or something.

That 'symptoms' overlap with INTP traits does not mean that an INTP cannot have AD(H)D.

I am INTP. I am quite sure I have ADD, inattentive type. Even though I have no dx, I did the test with my psychologist and we got strong results.

It is too easy to superficially scan traits and symptoms and then conclude that it is all the same thing. We need to study INTP brains in MRI scanners. It would surprise me if all INTP's would all have a dopamine issue.

Because there seem to be plenty of people here that can get by quite decently, have motivations and passions to do stuff.

 

[Variform]

When I was little I did a test to diagnose it, where a box would appear on the screen every few seconds and inside it was another box, you had to click a button every time the inside box was in a different place or something. I found a pattern to it, but it kept changing so I had a bunch of miss-clicks and a few times I didn't click at all. About half way through it switched to a completely new pattern and I lost interest. I was diagnosed with ADD, although I highly doubt I really have it.
They gave me Ritalin, which only helped me block out the droning of my teachers, made me lose my appetite and made me depressed.

Did they test anything else, do anything else besides this?

 

[Variform]

Ritalin, unlike amphetamine, doesn't affect (mess with) the dopamine-system. That's why it's preferred.

No that untrue. It does work on the dopamine system.

In that it works as a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor. It attaches to the part of a neuron that re-absorbs dopamine, blocking that dopamine to enter back into the neuron for re-use. The dopamine can't go back so it will flood the synapse where it is supposed to be going. If a neuron makes too little dopamine and some of it gets taken up again, too little will be going to the synapse.

Of course it is much more conplex but you can find info online easily.

 

[Variform]

Not "what are you"? but what do you do/think/feel? and do we know what chemically /physically/emotionally causes that, or what lifestyle changes could alleviate those symptoms? That seems more problem-solution focused, and perhaps more resembles the truth of how things are.

Be careful with that. You can change lifestyle and every lifestyle change that has inherent positive effects will alleviate any symptom somewhat. But if it is a neurological dopamine issue, you can adopt any lifestyle and it won't work.

If I look at myself and my lack of working memory, attention, focus and motivation, I can't see how getting up earlier e.g. would make a difference. It sounds like the 'change your lifestyle' is close to the idea that 'these people should just stop fooling about and get a kick in the butt because they are just lazy'.

Also, if people are motivated enough to make lifestyle changes, this in itself will provide a shift in status quo. Just the fact that one changes something helps. The healing is in the changing, not the changes made. Which is a bit like ´positive thinking´. That works to some extent, always.

¨quote*
After a while though, it seemed that when I focused on becoming aware of how my behavior changed over time that by understanding and working on directly mitigating/managing the worse sides of the symptoms of mental unrest (whether it be cyclothymia or not), everything improved--life, the world in general as I perceived it, health.¨-quote*

That´s right. Taking steps, measures, taking things into your control will always have a positive effect. You have to have the dopamine for it though.

So I guess there is value in being told about a mental condition. It can be a way of trying to be more self-aware (in the positive sense), just as we use MBTI and the like.

Knowing the issue is solving half the problem, aye.