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INTP's taking a level in badass?

Pyropyro

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As I said before, my intelligence and INTP personality has been a curse. Anyways, I thought that people will like me more if I try to seal off some of my skills (I can't even draw great anymore :( ), do half-assed work and act stupid to appear more "normal". Obviously people didn't buy it. They still sent me to contests and the kids hate me anyways.

I've been carrying this half-assedry my whole life and I managed so far. But perhaps it's time to reclaim what I idiotically lost, to take myself up a notch.

My job gives more responsibilities (I now have underlings?!?), I need to lighten the load to help my aging parents, and I need to be able to court and lead a feisty INTJ girl (her sister is becoming way too nice to me though, even invited me for some snacks, quite weird).

It seems that people are putting too much trust in me, as if they're seeing something that I don't. Retreating back to the shadows isn't working anymore.

So more mature INTP's, how can an INTP try to become more mature and responsible? To take a level in badass?

PS:This is way easier in shonen manga/anime and RPG's
 

BigApplePi

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@Pyropyro. I am definitely more mature than I was yesterday though I may have retrogressed since last week.

Anyway I'd say use your INTPness to firm up who you are. Pick something and set it in stone. You can always chop it up later if it goes wrong. Use your intelligence for balance. If you have skills, keep them for yourself. No sense in flaunting them before others. Be a full ass, not a half one. Take in what others are saying as data. Use that data to change yourself.
 

Cherry Cola

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stop shaving, get some dreads, wear a tank top, smear yourself with tiger musk and talk in a low voice both pitch and volume wise. That way people will have to quiet down to hear you talk and when they do you can wait like 2 seconds under which they'll smell that musk and drink in how badass you look and then you talk in that low baritone voice without the slightest sound of give a fuck in your voice.

Then you hire a dude and pay him extra to vocally oppose you only to be totally shut down by you simply by you walking up standing close to him and waiting for him to stfu and then telling him he's fired
 

Architect

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It seems that people are putting too much trust in me, as if they're seeing something that I don't. Retreating back to the shadows isn't working anymore.

So more mature INTP's, how can an INTP try to become more mature and responsible?

Well that's interesting. Some types naturally consider themselves mature and responsible - SJ obviously. Then there are the SP's, who consider themselves "anti-responsible", which is a form of responsibility. The NF's come by it because they understand the human condition. For NT's it's a mixed bag. ENTJ's and to some degree ENTP's are that way, as are INTJ's because they are all control types.

INTP's naturally eschew responsibility. We don't want it, if you try to become responsible, you'll want to fight it. The way forward then is to figure out how to make mature decisions without "taking" responsibility. For example, with my kid, I don't naturally want to be the adult calling the shots. Too much responsibility on my shoulders that I don't want. So instead I just treat him like a mini adult and give him choices, and advising him as to the best one to take. But I let him pick which direction he wants to go.

That puts me in my most comfortable place. I'm acting as an older wiser advisor (it rhymes), and I'm not having to take control of the situation. This works for an INTP son, I don't know if I had SP or SJ kids if it would work as well.

So, my advice is, don't ever try to become something your not. Instead find a way to perform in situations to your own interests and abilities.
 

Pyropyro

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stop shaving, get some dreads, wear a tank top, smear yourself with tiger musk and talk in a low voice both pitch and volume wise. That way people will have to quiet down to hear you talk and when they do you can wait like 2 seconds under which they'll smell that musk and drink in how badass you look and then you talk in that low baritone voice without the slightest sound of give a fuck in your voice.

Then you hire a dude and pay him extra to vocally oppose you only to be totally shut down by you simply by you walking up standing close to him and waiting for him to stfu and then telling him he's fired

:) Well the curse of being Asian is that you can't make a full beard, stupid genes :(
 

Cherry Cola

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Well just let it grow anyway, shows that you don't give a fuck even if your beard is fail which in turn means you are a trve alpha.

Like some manly alpha man ordering a drink which only 18 year old girls ever drink without losing any prestige. A regular man would succumb to shame and be seen as a pussy failure if he ordered such a drink, but the trve alpha man does whatever the fuck he wants.
 

Jennywocky

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I tend to agree with the "take responsibility without actually taking responsibility" approach. I.e., use my responsibility to empower others to take responsibility, as Architect describes.

I actually was pretty ultra-responsible when I was young, raised within the Church by a bunch of SJs and being the oldest kid and my dad being a complete flake in terms of responsibility. (it was my coping mechanism.) I actually had to allow myself to be less responsible as I got older; I didn't want the responsibility but just felt a lot of ingrained guilt when I didn't intervene to make something happen or when I didn't fulfill expectation. (Eventually I just backed off anyway, took the expected flack from my accusers, and sloughed off the guilt because it's their problem, not mine.)

Not everyone leads the same, nor has to. Find ways to empower and advise others and then hand it back to them. It's doubly great if you can frame it as an opportunity for them to step up, earn something for themselves, make them excited about doing it rather than you doing it. It does mean loss of some control, but aside from projects where you have a clear vision of what something shouldn't be, INTPs usually don't care as much about control anyway.
 

Pyropyro

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Well that's interesting. Some types naturally consider themselves mature and responsible - SJ obviously. Then there are the SP's, who consider themselves "anti-responsible", which is a form of responsibility. The NF's come by it because they understand the human condition. For NT's it's a mixed bag. ENTJ's and to some degree ENTP's are that way, as are INTJ's because they are all control types.

INTP's naturally eschew responsibility. We don't want it, if you try to become responsible, you'll want to fight it. The way forward then is to figure out how to make mature decisions without "taking" responsibility. For example, with my kid, I don't naturally want to be the adult calling the shots. Too much responsibility on my shoulders that I don't want. So instead I just treat him like a mini adult and give him choices, and advising him as to the best one to take. But I let him pick which direction he wants to go.

That puts me in my most comfortable place. I'm acting as an older wiser advisor (it rhymes), and I'm not having to take control of the situation. This works for an INTP son, I don't know if I had SP or SJ kids if it would work as well.

So, my advice is, don't ever try to become something your not. Instead find a way to perform in situations to your own interests and abilities.

I'm transitioning from guy who knows something to a guy who calls the shots. I really prefer to simply be on the background as much as possible but there are just some things that only I can do :( I kind of long for the days when I'm only the adviser to the leader.

Yeah, I think I should somehow find my game within all this mess. Perhaps I should delegate some of the burdens/responsibilities and have them bask on the accolades as reward like how you delegate some things to your child. I can do without fame, it seems that people who need me have a knack of finding me anyways.

I tend to agree with the "take responsibility without actually taking responsibility" approach. I.e., use my responsibility to empower others to take responsibility, as Architect describes.

I actually was pretty ultra-responsible when I was young, raised within the Church by a bunch of SJs and being the oldest kid and my dad being a complete flake in terms of responsibility. (it was my coping mechanism.) I actually had to allow myself to be less responsible as I got older; I didn't want the responsibility but just felt a lot of ingrained guilt when I didn't intervene to make something happen or when I didn't fulfill expectation. (Eventually I just backed off anyway, took the expected flack from my accusers, and sloughed off the guilt because it's their problem, not mine.)

Not everyone leads the same, nor has to. Find ways to empower and advise others and then hand it back to them. It's doubly great if you can frame it as an opportunity for them to step up, earn something for themselves, make them excited about doing it rather than you doing it. It does mean loss of some control, but aside from projects where you have a clear vision of what something shouldn't be, INTPs usually don't care as much about control anyway.

Gah, I hate SJ-style micromanage leadership. I can't put up with that and I don't want others to put up with that as well.

The ingrained guilt hit me as well. I think it's part of my issues. An INTP born to an agrarian family tend to be out of place. I might be feeling guilty of being me. I think I have to let that go.

Yeah, perhaps I need to develop a leadership style that's uniquely my own. I'm more than willing to let some control go if it can help ease some of my burdens and empower others at the same time.
 

Jennywocky

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Gah, I hate SJ-style micromanage leadership. I can't put up with that and I don't want others to put up with that as well.

The ingrained guilt hit me as well. I think it's part of my issues. An INTP born to an agrarian family tend to be out of place. I might be feeling guilty of being me. I think I have to let that go.

Yeah, perhaps I need to develop a leadership style that's uniquely my own. I'm more than willing to let some control go if it can help ease some of my burdens and empower others at the same time.

My most interesting experience was being in charge of a church worship team for about 8-10 years or so.

What I was interested in: Writing music, tailoring the sound and style, using it to "change" the dynamic of the church.

The bad part was all the organizational crap that came along with it, having to run practices, anchor in music choices to appease the higher-ups.

Also, in the area i actually cared about (the musical sound and style), I realized I had to let go of some of it. Tell others what to do against their own inclinations is not something that is natural for me; so I had to choose to relinquish my own specific vision to create a "framework" in which everyone had organic, ongoing input as to the music experience. it wasn't my private project, it was a group endeavor. So I could pick songs and determine overall sound and feel, but aside from some spot control, I pretty much had to trust that all the other musicians knew what they were doing, that they needed to feel invested, and that I had look at it more as a collaboration.

I was happier when I empowered others to take over some of the duties and I could just tweak things here and there, even if it meant sometimes things didn't unfold in the way I would have preferred; the empowerment was more my style. Some leaders are very comfortable controlling all elements of a performance, but in a group setting that just isn't me.

What was rather cool was seeing a few people really rise to the occasion and becoming better musicians and doing their own things because they had felt empowered earlier in the process. Anyway, it is something to work towards.
 

BigApplePi

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Like some manly alpha man ordering a drink which only 18 year old girls ever drink without losing any prestige. A regular man would succumb to shame and be seen as a pussy failure if he ordered such a drink.
You mean like lemonade and milk?
 

Kuu

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As I said before, my intelligence and INTP personality has been a curse.
First mistake: Believing you are inherently flawed (and incapable of changing it). This is false and a common, dangerous misunderstanding of the lessons of typology theory. Now you understand how you as "INTP" work, but can also understand how others work. All the power is in your hands to hack yourself and approach people in more effective manners, based on a rational framework.
I thought that people will like me more if I try to seal off some of my skills
Second mistake: focusing your self worth on other people. A badass does not doubt his badassery and needs no one to tell them they are one, or aren't one. Hone your skills, sure, but do it because you want to, not for others.
Act stupid to appear more "normal".
Third mistake: limiting yourself to appease others / fit in. Badasses don't fit in, people want to fit in with them. Focus on your shit, forget the rest. The groupies will come to you automatically if you do your shit well and do what you want without letting others restrain you. Become who you are.

do half-assed work
Why? You don't like it? You like wasting your life?
 

Pyropyro

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Don't worry Kuu, the info that you reacted on is more about setting the context. They're more or less addressed during my adult years.

Yeah, its the halfassed thing that is my issue now that circumstances require more of me than ever before. Archie and Jenny provided good points on how to deal with my new status, INTP style.
 

StevenM

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I'm the same way. I do the job half fast until its just functioning. Good enough is good enough for me. :P
 

digitalbum

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You can't be awesome on purpose. You either are, or you aren't.
And you are.

Ya know, I don't know @pyropryo that well, but I tend to agree with that statement.
 

Pyropyro

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WALKYRIA

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Seriously, I can't believe an INTP is asking on how to become a badass... The stereotypical badass is an ISTP( in the world of sensors !).. I mean, mimicking an ISTP isnt even that hard... And INTPs I find are the intellectual badasses.


Work your body language( studies have demonstrated that the way we hold our body has a repercussion on our way of thinking and confidence!) ... stand tall, straight, neck elongated, relaxed body, fixed in the ground feets, walk slowly, talk slowly, few words, low voice, don't fidget too much, display indicators of high value and high morals( hints !), don't smile when unnecessary= maintain a cold face, wear great clothes... and also try to congruency; thus- since in capitalistic countries, worth is sadly defined by your job and income- you must have a job where people naturally look up to you= the world specialist of this or that.

Don't search for approval too much= don't establish too much eye contact with unimportant people or with loud/ boring/ commonal/ GIRLS/ events, unless exception...


Being a badass is a whole life pursuit.
 

Pyropyro

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Seriously, I can't believe an INTP is asking on how to become a badass... The stereotypical badass is an ISTP( in the world of sensors !).. I mean, mimicking an ISTP isnt even that hard... And INTPs I find are the intellectual badasses.


Work your body language( studies have demonstrated that the way we hold our body has a repercussion on our way of thinking and confidence!) ... stand tall, straight, neck elongated, relaxed body, fixed in the ground feets, walk slowly, talk slowly, few words, low voice, don't fidget too much, display indicators of high value and high morals( hints !), don't smile when unnecessary= maintain a cold face, wear great clothes... and also try to congruency; thus- since in capitalistic countries, worth is sadly defined by your job and income- you must have a job where people naturally look up to you= the world specialist of this or that.

Don't search for approval too much= don't establish too much eye contact with unimportant people or with loud/ boring/ commonal/ GIRLS/ events, unless exception...


Being a badass is a whole life pursuit.

You did read the post right?
 

scorpiomover

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As I said before, my intelligence and INTP personality has been a curse. Anyways, I thought that people will like me more if I try to seal off some of my skills (I can't even draw great anymore :( ), do half-assed work and act stupid to appear more "normal". Obviously people didn't buy it. They still sent me to contests and the kids hate me anyways.
The reason they didn't believe you, is that your abilities are so exceptional, that you simply couldn't hide them, even when you tried.

There are plenty of slackers around. Honestly, who wants to employ a slacker? What woman actually wants to date someone who has no future?

Employers won't employ someone who is clearly way more capable than the job's requirements, because they fear that the employee will run off to the first job that does meet his skills, because they'll pay more. Most women who wouldn't date a super-intelligent or super-rich guy, admitted to me that it was because they feared that they were not enough to match what the guy could offer, and he'd run off with the first woman who could, because she'll offer more.

Of course they hated you. You behaved as if you were using them as a convenient stepping-stone, that weren't even worthy of the respect due to an inferior human being.

I've been carrying this half-assedry my whole life and I managed so far. But perhaps it's time to reclaim what I idiotically lost, to take myself up a notch.

My job gives more responsibilities (I now have underlings?!?), I need to lighten the load to help my aging parents, and I need to be able to court and lead a feisty INTJ girl (her sister is becoming way too nice to me though, even invited me for some snacks, quite weird).

It seems that people are putting too much trust in me, as if they're seeing something that I don't. Retreating back to the shadows isn't working anymore.
Know where you are coming from.

Ti has an extremely high standard. Ti solves problems, by factoring in all the details into one single equation that can be measured against every potential solution to return a result showing how highly the solution answers all the requirements of the problem. As such, even the most idealistic whims can be factored into the Ti-equation as yet another factor to be checked against. So by nature, Ti evaluates success as the very best that anyone would ever wish for.

ISTPs have Se to rely on to bring them back to Earth, so to speak, and to ground them in reality. INTPs have no such grounding. So our Ti can make us judge ourselves by ridiculously high standards. Moreover, we have Ne, which gives us the ability to think of options no sane person normally would, that can achieve things that most people would consider impossible.

As a result, INTPs usually see everything they achieve as 2nd best at the very most.

There is a saying: "Aim for the stars, and you'll reach the moon. Aim for the moon, and you'll reach the Earth."

The incredibly high level of expectation of Ti means that you naturally aim incredibly high, and put an incredible amount of effort and dedication into things automatically. Consequently, even the results that you half-ass still contain way more effort and dedication than what the rest of the planet considers their best.

So when you look at your efforts, you see failures and weaknesses. When others look at what you have done, and compare what you have done to what others in the same situation have achieved, your work is way, way better than theirs.

So more mature INTP's, how can an INTP try to become more mature and responsible?
As I have kept pointing out to an ENFJ friend, when things are already stacked in your favour, then to succeed, you only need to do nothing to rock the boat off its present course.

Others see that your current levels of effort and dedication are way ahead of the curve, without even trying, simply because what you consider the minimum, is what most people consider the optimal.

Factor that in to your calculations.

To take a level in badass?
Try to imagine what would happen if you took a carbon-based life-form, wiped its memory, and programmed it to run almost exclusively on pure logic, backed up by deduciing which paths of logic to follow, by a pattern-detecting algorithm that detects all possible patterns in the real world.

Now ask it to assassinate the head of the Taleban. It will compute every possible way to do it, that is each as absolutely certain as logic can possibly be. It will take 6 days, and respond "I have 15 ways to do so. How do you want it done?"

Can there be a greater badass?

PS:This is way easier in shonen manga/anime and RPG's
In manga, the protagonists tend to be action-heavy. In RPGs, the same is true.

If you want an example of INTP-ish badass, try to look at some of the more esoteric and unusual martial arts films, like "The Legend of Fong Sai Yuk". An INTP would not pull out a flaming sword and slice the protagonist in half.

An INTP would do as Sun-Tzu recommends in My job gives more responsibilities (I now have underlings?!?),[/quote]You obviously have shown your employers you have the skills. Now learn to delegate. Architect and others here have a lot of experience.

IIRC, one poster here said that he had over 70 employees under his wing. He simply would ask his employees for suggestions on how to proceed, let them brainstorm, and picked the best solutions. Then when he told his employees what to do, it was what they had already decided they would like. In effect, it was like getting them to manage themselves.

If you do choose to get your employees to manage themselves, remember that they don't have Ti & Ne. They won't have the same levels of expectations on themselves that you have on yourself. So their levels of results will probably be way below yours in quality, and probably way more in quantity. So you can let them have autonomy. But remember to give yourself the time to review their work before it is submitted, and to do so. Remember that you may have to assign some tasks to only certain members, because some people will only be competent on certain tasks.

If you do so, then if you use Fe and praise your employees for the things they did well, and for when they made an effort, and you are understanding on them when they tried and failed, they will see that they get decent appreciation and reward for their efforts.

If someone is taking the michael, and treating you like dirt, then remember that he doesn't understand why you got the job. Show him the brutal side of Ti. Don't destroy him. You only need Ti to crush him like a marshmallow under a sledgehammer for a few days, and he and the rest of the underlings will realise you are not to crossed. You only need 1% to 10% of what Ti would do to you. Start with 1%, and up if necessary. If too much, then reduce to 0.5%, or even 0.1% or even 0.01% accordingly.

I need to lighten the load to help my aging parents,
As far as your parents go, I sympathise. However, if your parents need a lot of help, and you are so in demand, then it may be more efficient to hire people on occasion to do the heavy lifting for the big jobs. If your parents need a lot of care, then it might be wise to hire a regular carer.

You can put out ads and ask recruitment companies for several candidates. You can do the interviews. You can ask friends who you think would make a good judgement on who would be a good carer for your parents, to be part of the interview panel. Once you've selected the right candidate, you can pop by your parents once a week to cover the slack that the carer cannot manage. While you are there and the carer is not, you can ask your parents how the carer is treating them. If it's not satisfactory, then treat her like any employee who is not pulling his weight. You let her know. Either she shapes up in a week, or you fire her and get another. As long as she's being paid good wages for what she's asked to do, you'll have plenty of people willing to do the job, and between them, you should find someone who does it competently and to yours and your parents' satisfaction.

I need to be able to court and lead a feisty INTJ girl
As far as the INTJ girl goes, I can't exactly tell you what works, as that's still an area that I'm not confident that I'm competent in. However, others here probably can.

I can tell you that giving everything a woman wants usually failed for me. When I ignored a woman, showed more interest in other women, or treated her as nothing but a friend, the woman was normally all over me.

Also, try to remember that nothing is certain in life. As long as you aren't dating, you're not dating yet. So just because you like her, doesn't mean that you will. However, it does mean that if she would like you, then others would. So spread your net a bit thin. Ask out a few other women as well, maybe even before you ask her out. Partially, it will give the INTJ gal some competition, as INTJs normally love a challenge. Partially, it will make you realise that you're in demand, and thus can afford to relax and just do what makes sense.

(her sister is becoming way too nice to me though, even invited me for some snacks, quite weird).
Actually, extremely common. Sisters grow up in the same home, and have most of the same genes. They have the same genetically-motivated and environmentally-motivated values, even if they have chosen to implement them in different ways. So it's likely that if your INTJ girl has feelings for you because of your positive qualities, then so would her sister. Besides, it could be an issue of sibling rivalry.

Beware. You don't want her sister to spill coffee on you, offer to wash your shirt for you, take off your shirt, and then find she's embracing you, just when the INTJ girl walks in. Sisters sometimes do that in cases of sibling rivalry, just to prove to the other that she can take you from her. So keep your distance.

Unless, of course, you want the sister. In which case, you may be quids in.
 

scorpiomover

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For the TL DR here:

To take a level in badass?
Try to imagine what would happen if you took a carbon-based life-form, wiped its memory, and programmed it to run almost exclusively on pure logic, backed up by deduciing which paths of logic to follow, by a pattern-detecting algorithm that detects all possible patterns in the real world.

Now ask it to assassinate the head of the Taleban. It will compute every possible way to do it, that is each as absolutely certain as logic can possibly be. It will take 6 days, and respond "I have 15 ways to do so. How do you want it done?"

Can there be a greater badass?

PS:This is way easier in shonen manga/anime and RPG's
In manga, the protagonists tend to be action-heavy. In RPGs, the same is true.

If you want an example of INTP-ish badass, try to look at some of the more esoteric and unusual martial arts films, like "The Legend of Fong Sai Yuk". An INTP would not pull out a flaming sword and slice the protagonist in half.

An INTP would do as Sun-Tzu recommends in [url="http://classics.mit.edu/Tzu/artwar.html]The Art of War[/url], universally acknowledged by military analysts as THE book on warfare:
26. Now the general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose.
The one who does the most calculations always wins! It's practically guaranteed! Logic dictates that this must be the case, and so it is.

Can you now see how the INTP is the most capable of all warriors?

We only do not fight, because we have not yet learned how powerful logic truly is, which is that it is the one thing that all of physical reality must bend to, or because we have learned how to win without ever fighting at all.
 

Pyropyro

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I won't respond to all of the details but this is quite a great read. Hmmm... I guess I need to brush up on my Art of War. If I remember correctly it also has a section on how to take care of your troops without spoiling them.
 
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