INTPf revival discussion

[BurnedOut]

1. An introduction thread aimed at informing the most basic rules of decorum.
2. Making it mandatory for new users to post a thread in a month's time. Failure to do so will result in their account getting deleted or something like that. I am pretty sure it is easy to write an automated script for this sort of thing (inspired by intjf). Word limit is a thing of debate but probably we can all agree that 100 words should be the minimum. This is to imbue in the minds of redshirts that lurking is not encouraged as much as being proactive and even argumentative (if decorous).
3. More convenience threads for redshirts which shall include one of them guiding them to read some threads (we have to create a master list) that will make them comfortable about arguing, posting and actively debating without fear.

If lurkers start pervading intpf (and this is the case), it is unfair for Ragnar to keep paying an incremental cost for maintaining the servers that are mostly occupied by non-active users. As much as we hate being exclusive, it seems like we have to understand that we have lost the fight with reddit and social media but still have an upper hand when it comes to written word being taken seriously and rationality still being the primary motivator of thread-posting than unnecessary shitposting like a person normally would on social media. We also have to understand that redshirts that are pouring in may be using social media much more and as we all know, social media is not a place of discourse which ultimately result in lurking and not participating.

If Ragnar provides me access to threads' text even without identifying the users, I may be able to identify the current trends here. I believe that it is only natural that all of us will enjoy more participation and a greater number of perspectives being shared.

 

[PiedPiper]

Agreed.

 

[PiedPiper]

And what if we had a few different sections for non-INTP types. As an INTP I find discussing topics with different minded people to be vital for building up the psyche. Maybe like a short description under the name.
Oh I see we do kind of have one, but brush it up a little.

 

[Cognisant]

Anyone that hasn't logged in for two years probably isn't coming back and anyone that hasn't written anything within six months of joining is probably a bot.

Having banners for google ads and such wouldn't be the end of the world imo, it would actually be kinda interesting to see what gets advertised to us.

 

[Puffy]

The first step is to replace inactive mods and then they can discuss together or with the community what kind of steps are needed, such as the kind of things you’re ideating. The last active mod here was Dair and she’s been gone for a while.

 

[BurnedOut]

@Puffy excellent idea. It is time to perturb the status quo a bit and attempt to make at least some kind of an overhaul that will foment activity.

 

[BurnedOut]

And what if we had a few different sections for non-INTP types. As an INTP I find discussing topics with different minded people to be vital for building up the psyche. Maybe like a short description under the name.

I guess we should also make it a point to mention that the user's MBTI type does not matter or it is okay if they don't believe in MBTI. We should understand that the MBTI fad is gone now and users are more likely to stay if they are unlikely to be nagged by the desire of being typed as INTP

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Just to be a contrarian, do we really want more people on the forum?

What number of people would we be happy with?

Is the quality of discussion not liable to go down with more users?

Cog's proposal is probably the way to go. It's difficult to find the forum because it's not profitable for anyone. If we want a quick, sure change that increases traffic, that would be it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

In this day and age it should be at least 400 INTPs posting everyday?
I mean lets be honest, summer is coming, the heat wave is going to be insane.
Internet is the place to be.
You don't want to be caught outside socializing and dealing with people.
COVID is still in full motions. I mean people are dying like flies.
And this is defacto only forum for INTPs that works.
So there you have it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

So in conclusion this forum is illogical.

 

[Puffy]

@Puffy excellent idea. It is time to perturb the status quo a bit and attempt to make at least some kind of an overhaul that will foment activity.

I’m not personally interested in modding. I got to do it during the best moment in forum history when one of the forum founders went rogue so we coup’ed him and he tried DDOSing the forum. So I’d rather go out on that high XD

If you were serious about it, I’d either message Ragnar explaining that the forum is without leadership and that you’re interested or maybe you could message Kuu (one of the mods) on discord to see if he’d do the knighting ceremony for you.

I’d recommend seeing if you can find a few people to do it with you though. Maybe start a thread on it or sumthin sumthin?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

If lurkers start pervading intpf (and this is the case), it is unfair for Ragnar to keep paying an incremental cost for maintaining the servers that are mostly occupied by non-active users.

Current users 4 and 50 guests (10 of those guests are bots and crawlers). I don't think this number of visitors is a significant upkeep cost. The traffic intpf is getting is probably within the lowest hosting plan and Ragnar doesn't pay premiums on excess traffic.

It's in the nature of highly introverted people to be lurkers and feel too afraid to engage. At least part of the value this site offers is reading archived threads and finding useful things people had shared around here.

A lot of the more delicate people who were trying to convince themselves to interact on this forum most likely decide against it after they see how other users can tear each other apart with criticism or stab to death with name calling. Some of the 4chan boards I've been to are friendly and welcoming compared to this place.

I think we've got three non-exclusive kinds of users, people who want to discuss, people who read quietly in the library and folks who just want some interaction and entertainment.

You would make a good moderator, in my opinion. We should recommend you if you've got the energy to spare. I'm curious how you would stir this place up.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

okay, governing is being discussed so I am now not not getting involved.

General Rules

INTP Forum General Rules of Conduct This is not a democracy. Whilst members' views are sought and welcomed, they do not decide the administration of the forum. 01/ Don't be a nuisance. 02/ No Trolls. No Flaming. No attacks on personalities or groups. No Spam. No Porn links. 03/...

www.intpforum.com

^ First lines say this isn't a democracy. I'm fine if we can all just follow those roles however imprecise they may be.

I don't see what a leadership role is in this context. Unless you guys are talking about campaigning and passing out flyers where you're at locally, we don't need admins to organize an effort. I don't see what it would do, but I suppose I'm not against certain people getting it either.

Maybe we start topics about particular things and take an SEO class. Though I"m pretty sure that part of the personality type here is that you have particular interest you already know a lot about. It's a really illusive goal when you have people who have broad interests and you're trying to capture them.

Maybe we cycle through topics every week or month?

I am a lurker on most social media. I've acted as a heavy publisher maybe once or twice, and I consider this a bit more than casual. The dopamine from small chit chat and revolving door of faces on most social media just doesn't do it for me. It's weird thinking that people would use this medium without engaging. Like I'm a part of their story or they're holding a voodoo doll of me. Makes me shudder.

 

[Puffy]

Place needs moderation, even if just for assisting with requests that require mod rights. I personally don’t care what mods do as long as they’re trust-worthy people who act with good intentions. But as quoted this place isn’t a democracy so they can do whatever their role permits within the limits of what’s permissible by the community. I.e if people leave because of moderator actions it’s obviously not in their interest, so the community serves as a natural check on power anyway.

 

[PiedPiper]

Just to be a contrarian, do we really want more people on the forum?

What number of people would we be happy with?

Is the quality of discussion not liable to go down with more users?

Cog's proposal is probably the way to go. It's difficult to find the forum because it's not profitable for anyone. If we want a quick, sure change that increases traffic, that would be it.

Would certainly find it a loss for this forum to go extinct. The ones who do post seem consistent, nevertheless. In six years down the road where will this website be? That is the question.

 

[Hadoblado]

ATM I can summon mods in emergencies but they don't seem interested in this place so I'd only do it for serious stuff. I was considering remodding just to deal with the day-to-day (like that recent account trying to get itself deleted) but I prefer being a poster. Mods here are historically treated with paranoia but also most of the time, the mods have had a different vision for the place than the users.

It's actually really weird reading this thread and seeing a generally positive view toward moderation. We've had so many threads discussing how any moderation is actually fascism or w/e (similar to the Twitter discussion but more personal).

I guess half the people in this thread are ex mods though XD

The current state of the forum is actually what a lot of people have argued for, for a very long time. I think if we do have mods, we probably want minimal interference just based on previous events.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I.e if people leave because of moderator actions it’s obviously not in their interest, so the community serves as a natural check on power anyway.

ATM I can summon mods in emergencies but they don't seem interested in this place so I'd only do it for serious stuff.

It's more often the case that mods left because they were too tired dealing with bitchy, obnoxious users. I think Adaire left quite recently out of frustration if I can take a guess.

Moderating a bunch of caustic, argumentative nerds that act like 5 year olds when they throw a fit or question "why" when someone is parenting them and incessantly complain is not on the list of the most enjoyable things to do in life.

 

[Hadoblado]

I think generally when people leave here out of frustration they come back. When people leave here and stay away it's because they've outgrown the need for a place like this or they've made the decision that this place doesn't advance their goals for the time invested.

 

[Puffy]

I.e if people leave because of moderator actions it’s obviously not in their interest, so the community serves as a natural check on power anyway.

ATM I can summon mods in emergencies but they don't seem interested in this place so I'd only do it for serious stuff.

It's more often the case that mods left because they were too tired dealing with bitchy, obnoxious users. I think Adaire left quite recently out of frustration if I can take a guess.

Moderating a bunch of caustic, argumentative nerds that act like 5 year olds when they throw a fit or question "why" when someone is parenting them and incessantly complain is not on the list of the most enjoyable things to do in life.

Yeah, agreed. It was a factor in me stepping down from modding. People’s daddy issues got a bit much.

On the positive side, it’s led to me respecting leadership more in other areas of life. I’d tend to be the anti-authority person at work questioning leadership decisions in a way to just be difficult and I find it easier to empathise with their perspective now.

 

[BurnedOut]

Let us create a new Athens. I am stoned right now and I have conceived some kind of a transcendental vision that will efficiently turn INTP into a real democracy with minimal governance with absolute transparency.

---

Some important terminologies

Active user
Based on our discussion on this term's meaning, I will cite mine as a template.

Active users are those who engage in interactions resulting in a human-dispatched discussion. What does this mean? This means that if suppose two users - a and b are interacting with each other in the form of participations in each other's threads and/or replying explicitly to each other. PM's are not counted as they are not a matter of intpf public issues. These users will assumed to be in tune with their feelings regarding the overall existence and direction of the forum and will be affected by an action against someone or themselves.

Secondly, lurkers are also considered as active users. This is conditional on two circumstances:
1. You should consent to your entry times being logged and available privately to the one doing the analysis.
2. The frequency of your logging will influence the share of your power in the vote. This is because it will be assumed that people who frequent this forum care more about the forum than those who don't.

---

Elections

Any user can raise any issue or topic for voting by making a thread about it and posting a poll. The thread's first post should contain a clear explanation of your reasons.

The polls will be opened for a predetermined amount of time. Results will be subjected to some basic statistics to come to the conclusion.

Based on the run-past-the-post/majority model, decisions will be made.

If and only if I am chosen as one of those users privy to the aforementioned logs will I will subject to analysis PUBLICLY. All the data will be sent to the active users WHICH THEY CAN VERIFY BY USING A CALCULATOR or ONLINE PROBLEM SOLVERS. Since this is pure math, any discrepancies will be caught instantly. This is absolutely transparent.

Now that I have clarified this, active users, assuming collectively, have interpersonal relations which ties you to the heart of the forum and its health. You will be involved in such governance.

---

Why such a complicated method? I can harvest logs and automate the entire procedure on a particular day/days. This means no headache for anybody.

 

[BurnedOut]

@Hadoblado @Puffy @EndogenousRebel

Let us take the ancient but relevant route that does not have 'total equity' but an 'equitable existence' that gauges your merits in an objective concrete way using maths. In this way, nobody would be able to make (an invalid yet seemingly,) a proper case regarding their supposed innocence. Justice to be served in the most transparent manner.

 

[BurnedOut]

So in my high state, I conceived another idea. I will just send you my .ipynb which you can open jupyter in your firefox and verify the code. It should not be too difficult as the results at each stage can be visually verified.

 

[Puffy]

My vote goes towards waiting until the stoned visionary comes down before implementing any of his ideas... Ah, just do it anyway, what's the worst that could happen.

 

[Cognisant]

A forum full of contrarians unanimously vote for anarchy.

 

[Hadoblado]

I won't stop you, but I'm not really for bringing structure to the forum. While I do have some attachment to this place I don't see it as a cause to shoulder any more.

So ummmm I vote nay?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

@BurnedOut You gotta get more fuel before you start the engine.

Are you going to manage 10 users? There's nothing to manage. You're not gonna get more output from the people that are here by having structure.

Find more users then there's going to be something to work with.

At this time you should consider becoming a mod just to do the paperwork and mundane requests that pile up in everyone's absence. This already can help preserve the forum. You're vocal about improvement so you should burn some of that energy to do basic mod stuffand then you can try some of your ideas if you increase the user count.

I tried inviting my friends to write here. None of them stayed for long. Few people like discussion formats and walls of text, besides this place is just specific. You should maybe start by getting all of the people you know who might wanna be here to join.

 

[Puffy]

I won't stop you, but I'm not really for bringing structure to the forum. While I do have some attachment to this place I don't see it as a cause to shoulder any more.

So ummmm I vote nay?

Aye, I'm mostly being contrarian. I don't care if someone wants to try things, but I get the sense that the old lady is keen to enjoy her final moments in peace. She's had a long and fulfilling life and the days of high energy drama are behind her now.

Like @Glaerhaidh says, it's getting a bit harder for her to find the energy to keep the house in order these days, so she'd probably appreciate that kind of help from a young man like yourself.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I'd be surprised if a human problem was completely solved by math. Fact is we failed to retain the people who came, and we ourselves stuck around after the rapture instead off ending it ourselves. (dramatic sting)

It was never our job of course, but what will this do really to what end? Diversity of ideas on the forums I suppose. But what of cultist and bad ideas, I can at least be sure that most people here are of decent temperament to ideas even if perhaps the same isn't thought of me or whatever. It's almost a tranquilizing experience compared to the rest of the world. They're crazy. We're not crazy.

That being said there's definite option for a systematic approach without too many limitations. But it's going to come down to what everyone does and what they talk about. We are shooting in the dark and lots of people have needs that expectations that only Big Tech algorithms can soothe.

I'm consenting for whatever youre thinking I guess, only if it's an organic construct though, not something artificial in a aesthetic consequential sense.

 

[BurnedOut]

I did act flippant earlier this day. Mods should lock this thread until the mods are interested in joining the discussion.

 

[Puffy]

All good man. They’re not likely to do either of those things though I bet. Unless Hado nudges RB to prove me wrong or something XD

 

[Hadoblado]

The mods are distantly aware now.

I'm going into exile a while. This place is pure procrastination for me. If you do need a mod, I'm sure some of you know how to contact them. If you don't, hit me up on discord and I'll patch you through. Good luck guys o/

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Good luck guys o/

Good luck dood

 

[Redfire]

Anyone that hasn't logged in for two years probably isn't coming back and anyone that hasn't written anything within six months of joining is probably a bot.

Having banners for google ads and such wouldn't be the end of the world imo, it would actually be kinda interesting to see what gets advertised to us.

I haven't been here in a long while, maybe more than two years, and I could come back. Forums were not replaced by anything better; as the OP said: forums have the "upper hand when it comes to written word being taken seriously and rationality still being the primary motivator of thread-posting than unnecessary shitposting like a person normally would on social media". Wouldn't it be great for all the old-timers to come back? Or some of them anyway. And I mean before my time too; I lurked years before I actually made an account. Most of what I did was lurk anyhow.

Anyway. Not sure deleting all inactive accounts is the way to go. I'd like to think that although I wasn't a big part of this forum, I at least should retain the right to have my account still here after all these years. This forum meant a lot to me, even though I didn't participate that much.

That being said, maybe I should mention I'm drunk. I never drink nowadays, which might explain this unusual behaviour for me which is thinking about good ol' times, and about INTPf.

Also, I love you all. Love is the law, love under will.

P.S: I miss Lyra.

 

[preilemus]

Anyone that hasn't logged in for two years probably isn't coming back and anyone that hasn't written anything within six months of joining is probably a bot.

Having banners for google ads and such wouldn't be the end of the world imo, it would actually be kinda interesting to see what gets advertised to us.

Never say never

Obviously I haven't been 'round these parts in awhile and I'd have a lot of catching up to do, but I will echo what others have said, that "the forum" is a medium that offers something not quite replicated in social media and other, more modern, internet communication mediums. Also, as someone who once spent a great deal of time here and made meaningful connections with other people here, I would be sad to see my account disappear.

As far as financing goes, I think that integrating some new Web3 concepts is an avenue worth exploring. For example, when using the Brave web browser, users are passively generating and tipping cryptocurrency to websites and content creators that they pay attention to. Even lurkers who don't contribute any dialogue could be tapped as a revenue source from the time they spend on this site, so long as this site were configured to accept that form of payment.