INTP vs. ADHD

[subdude]

About two years ago, I became semi-convinced that I have ADHD. Even though I've generally been successful in most things I've tried, it often seemed that I underachieved for reasons that often had a lot to do with focus and staying organized. When I studied ADHD a bit, it seemed that I had most of the recognized symptoms/traits of ADHD. However, once I got passed reading about the traits of ADHD and started reading about people who actually have the more severe level of dysfunction one normally associates with ADHD, I concluded that I didn't really have ADHD, or at least not ADHD to a level that would require any sort of treatment.

Since then, after learning about MB personality types and, in particular, the profile of an INTP, it seemed to me that the quirks that made me wonder if I was ADHD are many of the same quirks that seem to be associated with being an INTP.

I don't want to make more of this than is really there. I am curious though as to whether other INTPs ever thought they might be ADHD or otherwise saw some connection between ADHD and INTP. Also, does anyone know if INTPs are more or less likely to be ADHD than other personality types?

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Don't you have ADD maybe? ADD Seems like something that would be very common under INTPs to me, but I haven't researched ADHD much. Generally I don't view INTPs as very hyperactive people, rather they seem more mellow than usual, so maybe INTPs are more likely to get ADD, but less likely than ADHD... This is just an assumption though.

I think I have ADD.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I've been diagnosed with ADD every single time it came up while visiting a doctor. Maybe I have it, maybe I don't. Maybe it's my personality type, the lack of any actual learning in school, the tediousness and red tape others create of the world. However, whenever I've tried medication, just doing the tedious work stopped being a problem. I just... did it.

 

[Stoic Beverage]

I do have an ADD sort of thing, but with hobbies. I'll hear about something (like, say, juggling,) and quickly become proficient. Then, I drop it and never attempt it again. I have a fairly wide array of miscellaneous skills because of it, but don't achieve mastery over any of them. I've read this is somewhat common for an INTP, though.

 

[Wolfpine]

I have ADHD. It's fairly serious for me, though; without my medication, it takes about 125% of my willpower to do something I WANT to do, and about 500% to do something I don't want to do.

I'm not sure how much it really has to do with being an INTP. I mean, it naturally contributes, but ADHD has a few additions. For example, ADHD doesn't just impair productivity, it impairs methodological thinking. I know we think intuitively more than methodically, but not being able to think methodically at all makes it nearly impossible to concentrate on anything, whether we are interested or not. This seems contrary to the INTP's nature as the type that can supposedly concentrate to a greater extent than any other type.

It kind of feels like you have a whole world of ideas or "things that could become real things" floating around, but any time you try to isolate one it just slips away, and you can't get more than two or three thought-steps into the matter before you've forgotten what the matter was in the first place.

 

[snafupants]

I've been diagnosed with ADD every single time it came up while visiting a doctor. Maybe I have it, maybe I don't. Maybe it's my personality type, the lack of any actual learning in school, the tediousness and red tape others create of the world. However, whenever I've tried medication, just doing the tedious work stopped being a problem. I just... did it.

Did you still take medication? If no, were they side effects which lead you to ditch those affable study buddies?

 

[SpaceYeti]

Did you still take medication? If no, were they side effects which lead you to ditch those affable study buddies?

I've taken the medication for about 2 months total in the past decade. The loss of having fun, the alteration in my personality, is not worth it.

 

[Wolfpine]

I've taken the medication for about 2 months total in the past decade. The loss of having fun, the alteration in my personality, is not worth it.

Your mom whatever you just is dumb.

 

[Jean Paul]

I am exteremely absentminded , through not ADHD/ADD

 

[SpaceYeti]

Your mom whatever you just is dumb.

Well played. Well played... indeed.

 

[SQ_Minion]

I have been wondering lately about the possibility of having ADHD. I've always been bored to death in school and my mind perpetually wanders. I'm severely absentminded and forget things at the drop of a hat. Lately my procrastination has become a severe detriment to my grades and my overall health, physical and emotional. In the social arena, I'm lucky enough to be introverted (and an INTP at that), but with some regularity I'll start talking without thinking, often damaging the relationships I have with people. In any case, I'm seeing my doctor in a week or two for a regular checkup; I'll mention it to him then.

 

[kantor1003]

Who does not have ADD these days? Seems like every pupil not being able to spend 8 hours a day learning something they don't want to learn in an age they just want to play around, have fun and discover things for themselves get this label as they were somehow not normal. Perhaps the error isn't to be found in the student most of the time, but more in the system itself. I'm not saying that the condition doesn't exists, I only question to the degree with which it does.

 

[SkyWalker]

I guess all INTPs could be diagnosed with ADD, we are procrastinators etc... (It's because we introverted thinkers try to avoid the wrong tasks, which is a good thing too, but extraverted thinkers dont understand that)



ADHD is similar to ADD but more aggressive/playful/active/extraverted in the feeling funcion, ADD is more quiet/introverted in the feeling function. i think most INTPs are ADD, not ADHD, although there is always symptoms of ADHD in ADD

ADD has hyperfocus, something ADHD does not have. INTPs go into hyperfocus when on a rational mind trip, like ADD

stimulants push you into constant hyperfocus mode. the stress of the stimulant makes you finish tasks, making you act more a like an extraverted thinker. which you could also do if you had real stress caused by a task that is actually really neccessary at that time. the stimulant simulates this stress chemically so you shut down introverted thinking and finish all tasks without asking why (= extraverted thinking) so you fool yourself into thinking every stupid task that comes in your life is neccessary to finish all the way, something you normally wouldn't do without first knowing why.

ritalin will make you lose your "why" questions. maybe why questions postpone you and are bugging you, but once you solve them you are as fast as the fastest task-finisher, but at least you'll be doing the right thing. the reason some ADDers don't function in society is simply because modern society is wrong and ADDers cant work for something that is wrong

don't take stimulants like ritalin, it retards your brain, it will make you physically dependant on it with no way to reverse the damage
(i tried it for 2 weeks though, it makes me trip like crazy. i was a machine, but its too good to be true, it will break you, i really felt that)

i dont even drink coffee nowadays...pure will power only

 

[subdude]

I sort of wonder if other INTPs who may at least feel a little ADHDish (although may not really be) prefer stimulants to depressants for those sorts of reasons. I myself am a big fan of caffeine. I don't require nearly as much as some people, but I do feel a need for caffeine at the start of the day and usually some again at lunch, either in the form of green tea for breakfast and caffeinated soda pop at lunch. (I realize green tea doesn't have a lot of caffeine, but I start my day with four bags worth of green tea.) On the other hand, although I enjoy alcoholic drinks, I have almost never had too much, and most of the time, I have little desire to drink alcohol.

To be sure, my desire to consume caffeine is probably more of a physical dependency (albeit a mild one) rather than a daily decision to boost me mentally and socially, but I nevertheless wonder if other INTPs feel more drawn toward stimulants vs. depressants compared to most people. (In asking the question, I do not at all mean to endorse taking illegal drugs or abusing legal ones, e.g., caffeine and alcohol, but I imagine most people have enough life experience already to answer the question.)

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I sort of wonder if other INTPs who may at least feel a little ADHDish (although may not really be) prefer stimulants to depressants for those sorts of reasons. I myself am a big fan of caffeine. I don't require nearly as much as some people, but I do feel a need for caffeine at the start of the day and usually some again at lunch, either in the form of green tea for breakfast and caffeinated soda pop at lunch. (I realize green tea doesn't have a lot of caffeine, but I start my day with four bags worth of green tea.) On the other hand, although I enjoy alcoholic drinks, I have almost never had too much, and most of the time, I have little desire to drink alcohol.

To be sure, my desire to consume caffeine is probably more of a physical dependency (albeit a mild one) rather than a daily decision to boost me mentally and socially, but I nevertheless wonder if other INTPs feel more drawn toward stimulants vs. depressants compared to most people. (In asking the question, I do not at all mean to endorse taking illegal drugs or abusing legal ones, e.g., caffeine and alcohol, but I imagine most people have enough life experience already to answer the question.)

I've been wondering that myself too. I don't know for myself yet.

 

[SkyWalker]

i dont trust coffee it must be bad, ever seen that black shit which stays in the cup when dry? it stays inside you too! and on your teeth! and it makes you smell bad internally (your breath).
it also dehydrates you and thus makes your skin dryer (older look).

but i use that dirty black witches brew sometimes as a medicine/stimulant when i am really tired and have a really important meeting, and am afraid that things will end up wrong if i am not alert enough


it is of no use to drink it everyday, since the effect will be gone, keeping only the dependency


coffee is also a mind pain killer and i'd rather take pain inducers! pain awakens, fake pleasure dulls you to sleep


and thats just my opinion on coffee!! can you imagine what ritalin does to me?? haha

 

[Agent Intellect]

I'm almost certain I have ADD as a comorbid condition with my Tourettes (along with OCD and atypical depression). When I have alone time, I can never do anything for more than about a half hour at a time - I'll read for a while, then watch TV, then surf the internet, then go exercise, then read something else, then surf the internet, then shower, then watch TV, then listen to music, then read something else (I'm usually in the process of reading about 3-5 books at once, not to mention magazines and web pages) and so on.

 

[Mary]

I've been diagnosed with ADD, tried the meds for ~2 years, and then stopped. I hated the way I felt on Adderall/Ritalin/etc. I felt jumpy and had a vague sense of anxiety but couldn't figure out why. My doctor eventually put me on Prozac/Valium/other random stuff as well as stimulants in an attempt to remove the anxiety. The antidepressants just made me feel retarded and bubbly, when they worked. Half the time they didn't, and I'd get crazy. So I stopped taking the meds and have had a much better time.

If I do have ADD, I honestly don't care anymore. I guess I have the same mindset as Kantor - it's not the students, it's the educators. I can focus extremely well if the class is interesting enough.

 

[Jchazard]

Well let's consider this. All of us are enneagram 5. In this measurement of personality, as we become increasingly unhealthy we become increasingly hyper-active and scattered at type 7. Type seven is basically ADHD incarnate. So as we become unhealthy we become less in control of our thought, more trying to avoid it or preoccupied with our own interests instead of what we should doing. So I've been diagnosed with ADHD but I'm beginning to wonder if it's ADHD at all as before the pst few years I never exhibited any symptoms of the disorder besides procrastination.

 

[Indolence]

Funny, I was just thinking about this. I was diagnosed with ADD over half a year ago, but recently when I discovered that I'm (apparently) an INTP I kinda questioned the ADD diagnoses. Both the symptoms of ADD and the traits of an INTP describe me better than I could ever describe myself. There are indeed a lot of overlapping traits, or so it seems, but there are also some unexplained traits and contradictions. To my understanding, ADHD and ADD differ in that ADD is more of an internal, psychological hyperactivity, whereas ADHD shows itself as a physical hyperactivity. This is where I make the connection between ADD and INTP. INTPs are introverted thinkers, ADD is mental hyperactivity - and how I have described my problems with concentration in the past is that my own thoughts are distracting, not just to the outside world but also within my own thought process. There is this persistent 'white noise' which acts sort of like resistance to my thinking, similar to the resistance in a circuit board, me thinks. It makes thinking require far more effort than it should. Now the argument here is usually "that's because what you're thinking about is uninteresting" or "everyone has that", but there is a distinction between not being able to concentrate on something due to lack of interest and not being able to concentrate because your thoughts are near-impossible to organise. Of course, my interest in the subject is a factor but not the most significant one. This is only one symptom, too. Taking other things into account, such as procrastination and restlessness it's hard to believe it's all down to my personality. If it is, then my brain is useless . Failing at everything you're more than competent at is depressing, and its usually down to not being able to perform when it counts because your string of thoughts are rapidly re-arranging themselves or disappearing when you're about to make use of them. There's nothing like having to solve the same arithmetic three times because you keep forgetting or disbelieving the answer after you've worked it out. Can't really explain much better than that, I think. However, I'm interested in hearing any other theories which could explain these symptoms. I've been on medication for a few months and whether my problems are down to ADD or not is (almost) irrelevant, they successfully suppress the 'symptoms'. It's awesome and all, but I'm aware that they will probably affect my health. I consider it a trade-off. I can utilise my brain nearer to its full potential to make chasing my interests easier, but my health (probably) deteriorates as a result. One thing can be said, though - they do not boost motivation . I'm more motivated and energetic without them, infact, but this motivation usually doesn't amount to anything useful. It's a useless short-term motivation. Long term motivation is more useful.

 

[SkyWalker]

So as we become unhealthy we become less in control of our thought, more trying to avoid it or preoccupied with our own interests instead of what we should doing.

why shouldnt you be doing your own interests???

 

[a detached retina]

I've read ADD and ADHD are prevalent in NF types.

But I've observed more ENTPs and ENFPs who display they typical behaviors. It's the Ne going out of control on tangents thing.

I was diagnosed with ADD though I am an ENTP. I mistyped as an INTP initially though because I am shy and horrible at small talk (and big talk for that matter.)

 

[warryer]

ADD is the SJ's crusade.

 

[natg989]

I'm inattentive ADHD and INTP. It's torture to be quite honest. I'm not saying that I can't succeed with ADHD, but all the effort I put into whatever I'm doing zaps all the energy from me and most of the time I just want to stop trying. Basically I can't relax, day dream in class, underestimate the time it takes to finish something, miss deadlines, "zone out" when others are talking, trouble going to sleep at night and being alert during the day, low tolerance for frustration and stress, quick temper, unstable moods, constant worrying, forget appointments, constantly losing or misplacing things, inability to delay gratification, acting impulsively without regard for consequences (impulsively spending, sudden change of plans)... I had to put all my effort into focusing at work and it was hard for me to follow through on things. I'm smart and quiet, so people tend to overlook it, but if they observe me for long amounts of time and have decent intelligence they'll know. My boss asked me if I had ADHD. He was nice about it, but still he didn't hire me back for next summer. I also have a lack of knowledge because I didn't pay attention in school. I studied and made good grades but I felt like I never learned anything. Medication helps a ton, clears the fog; absolutely everyone I know noticed a huge change in me when I first started taking it. It does make me more serious though (which sucks) but i'll take that over not paying attention.

I really like how this guy explained it over at intpcentral:

"Adderall isn't the be all end all but I try to explain it like this to people who can't understand. Having ADHD, (and being an INTP), is like going through life having to lift a 10,000 lb weight to get anything accomplished while everyone else around you only has to lift 100 lbs to do the exact same thing. We'll it sucked but I did learn how to move 10,000 lbs in life when I had to, and even got pretty good at it, but then someone came along and gave me a pill that put me on a level playing field with everyone else. All of a sudden the world feels like you have gone from always being at a disadvantage to being on an even playing field with everyone…. It only takes 100lbs of force to move 100 lbs of mass. Then something even better happens. After a while you realize you still aren't on a level playing field everyone else... You realize that you have a leg up "IF" you take the new skills you have, and are learning, and use them along side the skills you developed to survive in this world…… Knowing you can be ahead of the curve for the first time in your life is an amazing feeling when you've never experienced it before. Don't get me wrong, You still have work to do and skills to develop and I still have my demons but I'm the one who does the pushing around now. It helped me focus, it helped my drive, it helped with patience, (that is a biggy for me) and it just gave me a clarity I hadn't had before."

 

[Philosophyking87]

I seem to have the "attention-deficit" part.
I relate to most of the symptoms for that aspect of this condition.
"Predominantly inattentive."

And I think it has affected me from day to day.
I also might have social anxiety disorder.

To summarize my experience with chronic procrastination, I once wrote, "Everything around me dies."
That's how it feels to be incapable of maintaining anything around you.

 

[Zionoxis]

I could easily be described as ADD. I do what I enjoy for long periods of time, but when I come to a task that irritates me, it takes far more willpower to actually do it. When my mind is interested in something (AKA: computers), I feel a switch flip and thoughts flood through my head at insane speeds. They are all focused on one thing, they are all thinking about one subject.

If I get into this mode, I can accomplish pretty much anything at light speed.

Also, what do you guys think is the result of methodically drinking energy drinks once or twice a week? I do not get energized by them, but I no longer feel the "I'm going to sleep through this class" that I usually get in class. I noticed the mention that stimulants cause us to not question "Why". I don't know, but I still have a hard time focusing even after such energy drinks have been taken.

 

[SkyWalker]

I noticed the mention that stimulants cause us to not question "Why". I don't know, but I still have a hard time focusing even after such energy drinks have been taken.

its because its just caffeine, its not strong enough. if you did cocaine/amphetamin/ritalin you would notice that you lose the why questions and focus on how instantly. in other words you push your introverted thinking into extraverted thinking, and probably the same for your feeling
at least that is my conclusion.

try one full day on 4 ritalin tablets, get it from an ADHD friend, or try something 'illegal' for one full day, you'll see. (and then dont touch that stuff anymore or you'll be addicted)

and yeah why-not-to-do-it causes procrastination, it messes up your how-to-do-it thoughts.

but you dont need drugs. you could also put yourself in life-threatening situation, that will stress you like those drugs do and also stop your why-questions and put you in how-to-do-it mode instantly and before that situation you will not really need to suppress your why questions full-time anyway

 

[Solitaire U.]

Also, what do you guys think is the result of methodically drinking energy drinks once or twice a week? I do not get energized by them, but I no longer feel the "I'm going to sleep through this class" that I usually get in class. I noticed the mention that stimulants cause us to not question "Why". I don't know, but I still have a hard time focusing even after such energy drinks have been taken.

Ref: http://www.cannabisculture.com/v2/articles/1656.html

"Amphetamine vs caffeine A key question in the safety of any substance is the amount and concentration of the dose taken, and the form of use. Amphetamines taken in moderate doses are a safe a reliable stimulant. It is only when large doses are repeatedly smoked or injected that health and psychological problems may occur.
In his massive, scholarly work Pharmacotheon, respected entheogenic researcher Jonathon Ott discusses the research comparing amphetamine to caffeine.
"Quite a bit of research has been conducted comparing caffeine with amphetamines," explains Ott, "and almost invariably, amphetamines turn out to be superior." He continues to explain that amphetamines improve reaction time and increase the steadiness of the hands, while caffeine does not improve reaction time, and actually impairs steadiness. He also quotes a summary of the caffeine/amphetamine comparison studies, which says that "at dose levels that clearly enhance performance, the amphetamines seem not only more effective than caffeine, but less costly in terms of side effects."
"I'd feel much safer if my pilot on an all-night flight had taken 10mg of methamphetamine before departing... instead of chain-smoking Marlboros and gulping execrable airline coffee all the way," conludes Ott, adding that "NASA, which has conducted research on optimizing performance of austronauts, settled on a NASA-developed 'prescription' containing amphetamines for the pilots of the space shuttle..."
Ott concludes that "the US Federal Aviation Administration is guilty of defaulting on its obligations to protect the safety of air travelers, by allowing the use by pilots of inferior stimulants which impair the steadiness of pilots' hands and degrade their night vision."

FWIW, IMAO combining caffeine with refined sugar is a major compromise as sugar tends to 'diffuse' the effects of any stimulant. Regardless, it's unlikely (impossible actually) even high doses of caffeine could achieve the same results that much smaller doses of amphetamine could...

...which is itself somewhat irrelevant, as even amphetamines won't get you past 'why'. Enhancing potency simply prolongs the time duration one may experience 'why' in an infinite loop without stopping for sleep.

@SkyWalker...

"if you did cocaine/amphetamin/ritalin you would notice that you lose the why questions and focus on how instantly. in other words you push your introverted thinking into extraverted thinking, and probably the same for your feeling
at least that is my conclusion."

This isn't even close to how I'd describe the experience. Please explain this rationale further.

 

[Synchro]

I use ritalin to get tasks done...then I chill on days off and ponder. It works. I can't function in a job or project without it, but I really enjoy chilling in the evening or a day off and just writing or...thinking....

I suspect that INTP's have to be very careful with things like pot; we're paranoid enough to start with! (with damn good reason, too)

 

[pjoa09]

I highly suspect I have Inattentive ADHD. Since the start I have been accused of 'day dreaming' and such. I can't do anything properly the second time.

 

[Zensunni]

For me, my lack of attention and wandering daydreams was summarized by a very intelligent, observant teacher of mine. She told me that my procrastinating and day-dreaming and boredom come from being so smart that I figure things out faster than those around me and then get bored waiting for everyone to catch up. She said I was not being challenged enough and needed to move on to more difficult things but schooling generally requires you to go through steps progressionally.

Wandering off in my mind could look like ADD to some people and if I were younger I may have been labeled ADD but that was not a diagnosis when I was that age. I cannot speak for others here but if INTP's are quick to apprehend as a general rule, that could lead to boredom while waiting for others to catch up.