INTP: The dream shatterer?

[Dimensional Transition]

INTPs are often seen as know-it-alls and annoying grammar nazis, do you think this is true for you?

I very often find that I'm a bit of a party pooper. When somebody is really enthusiastic about something that's often... say a really big global misconception(sorry I can't think of any good examples at the moment), I always find it necessary to give them the right information, and point out the flaws/risks/cons of that certain subject they're enthusiastic about. Today I corrected somebody I think 4 times on facebook, and I've kind of told myself to hold back a little now before I start to look like an annoying cold person who is constantly making everything into a scientific discussion.

 

[Cogwulf]

I'm not a grammar nazi, but I do despair when I see adults writing at the level I was at when I was 11 years old.

On technical subjects I do often bring up peoples mistakes. If people think I'm being annoying then so be it, it's them who are at fault.
I can accept ignorance, what I can't accept is people being complacent about being ignorant.

Everyone would prefer to be a bit stronger or a bit faster, but so many people just don't allow themselves to learn more

 

[final-dimension]

I'm not a grammar nazi, but I do despair when I see adults writing at the level I was at when I was 11 years old.

On technical subjects I do often bring up peoples mistakes. If people think I'm being annoying then so be it, it's them who are at fault.
I can accept ignorance, what I can't accept is people being complacent about being ignorant.

Everyone would prefer to be a bit stronger or a bit faster, but so many people just don't allow themselves to learn more

So true...

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I'm not a grammar nazi, but I do despair when I see adults writing at the level I was at when I was 11 years old.

On technical subjects I do often bring up peoples mistakes. If people think I'm being annoying then so be it, it's them who are at fault.
I can accept ignorance, what I can't accept is people being complacent about being ignorant.

Everyone would prefer to be a bit stronger or a bit faster, but so many people just don't allow themselves to learn more

I agree.

 

[final-dimension]

What I hate more than grammar mistakes illogical statements.

 

[TylerRDA]

The INTP is deft and capable when deconstructing ideas: however I'm afraid the title of "Dream Shatterer" belongs to the INTJ (We rip apart our own ideas past recognition).

 

[final-dimension]

The INTP is deft and capable when deconstructing ideas: however I'm afraid the title of "Dream Shatterer" belongs to the INTJ (We rip apart our own ideas past recognition).

Now you have to find a better title for this thread.

 

[Philosophyking87]

What I hate more than grammar mistakes illogical statements.

I find that illogical statements, irrational actions, and unwarranted criticism tend to annoy me the most, which throws me into "annoying cold person" mode, where I begin to question their justification with pressing logic, which may turn into a really huge "philosophical" (not scientific) discussion.

This often creates defensive behavior in the subject, who then begins to react negatively toward me, for merely having wanted to check their logic. It's quite annoying that we are (a) so prone to noticing these problems and (b) presumed to be assholes for wanting to make sense of them to others.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Now you have to find a better title for this thread.

It's not a statement that's in the title, merely a suggestion!

@Philosophyking87: What exactly do you mean with illogical statements, irrational actions, and unwarranted criticism?
Things such as 'it's true because the bible says so', crying over little arguments, and 'YOU'RE GAY'?

 

[final-dimension]

'it's true because the bible says so' is this is even the original bible or the new edition?

 

[final-dimension]

I find that illogical statements, irrational actions, and unwarranted criticism tend to annoy me the most, which throws me into "annoying cold person" mode, where I begin to question their justification with pressing logic, which may turn into a really huge "philosophical" (not scientific) discussion.

This often creates defensive behavior in the subject, who then begins to react negatively toward me, for merely having wanted to check their logic. It's quite annoying that we are (a) so prone to noticing these problems and (b) presumed to be assholes for wanting to make sense of them to others.

I totally agree.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Quite a few INTPs are really full of themselves and think that they know more than others do. In some cases, they're right about their critiques. In some cases, their critiques of others are a cloak for their own weaknesses (and very often, this happens without them being aware).

Just sayin'.

Dave

 

[Magnetosphere]

^

I'd have to agree with that. I wish I contribute more to this thread, but sadly, my brain isn't working the way that it usually does.

All I can think to say is that it seems that many of us seem to have rather haughty, arrogant, even narcissistic exteriors, beneath which lies a rather unvanquishable sense of inferiority. I guess that might not be fair to say, but it's the feeling I get - I'm sure it's partly coming from within myself, because I feel like that much of the time.

Half the time I'm arguing, it's more to convince myself than my opponent.

Ugh. Current mental state aside, I feel like I've been losing "it" over the course of the last year.

 

[Razare]

INTPs are often seen as know-it-alls and annoying grammar nazis, do you think this is true for you?

I very often find that I'm a bit of a party pooper. When somebody is really enthusiastic about something that's often... say a really big global misconception(sorry I can't think of any good examples at the moment), I always find it necessary to give them the right information, and point out the flaws/risks/cons of that certain subject they're enthusiastic about. Today I corrected somebody I think 4 times on facebook, and I've kind of told myself to hold back a little now before I start to look like an annoying cold person who is constantly making everything into a scientific discussion.

Yes, this is a good description of the INTP. Whenever I post some INFJ-esque content on here, it gets eviscerated. Sometimes that is a great thing, and sometimes it is a disappointment.

I don't think you should hold back, unless you value the relationship strongly enough to do so. You are an INTP, so logically dissecting things is your personal strength, even if that is a negative quality in relationships. Just be aware of it. I think that an INTP who didn't exhibit this behavior would be boring.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Quite a few INTPs are really full of themselves and think that they know more than others do. In some cases, they're right about their critiques. In some cases, their critiques of others are a cloak for their own weaknesses (and very often, this happens without them being aware).

Just sayin'.

Dave

Oh yes definitely. I was friends with another INTP(I think), and he was so arrogant he wouldn't explain me his theories because he thought 'I wouldn't understand them anyways. And it'd be a waste of time.'

And of course, I can get kind of arrogant as well. But I try to stay as objective as possible. In fact, I've been exposing my weaknesses now to a few good friends, and it has it's good and bad sides, the bad sides mainly being in my own head. People will understand you better, but the feeling of not being in your own safe fort anymore is kind of annoying.

 

[Cogwulf]

I do have arrogant tendencies, but they're kept strongly in check by my self-confidence issues. Whenever I think I'm right about something I feel uncomfortable pointing it out unless I know I know I can find some sort of evidence to back myself up if I need to. I also use words like "I think" and "probably" more often than anyone else I know as well

 

[Philosophyking87]

Half the time I'm arguing, it's more to convince myself than my opponent.

While this may be true, I'm sure INTP's often do find errors in other people's actions, speech, statements, conclusions, ect. But yes, we aren't always correct about such criticism.

Isn't it interesting, though, how discussion with others is often merely just an externalized discussion with ourselves? We utilize someone else to better come to a conclusion for ourselves. Very odd indeed.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Yes, this is a good description of the INTP. Whenever I post some INFJ-esque content on here, it gets eviscerated. Sometimes that is a great thing, and sometimes it is a disappointment.

I don't think you should hold back, unless you value the relationship strongly enough to do so. You are an INTP, so logically dissecting things is your personal strength, even if that is a negative quality in relationships. Just be aware of it. I think that an INTP who didn't exhibit this behavior would be boring.

Yeah, on the one hand, I think logical dissection is a very great ability. It's the very heart and soul of the INTP personality. It's what makes us unique and really sets us apart from the other types. It's our "niche," so to speak. Yet, this ability is not at all conducive to positive relationships and easily creates tension and sometimes anger in others, who often react through social retaliation -- alienating the annoying logical INTP and casting them off as anti-social. At least seems to be my experience with others when it comes to my use of logical dissection.

People just don't take kindly to it. But perhaps it should be used with care.

 

[Philosophyking87]

Oh yes definitely. I was friends with another INTP(I think), and he was so arrogant he wouldn't explain me his theories because he thought 'I wouldn't understand them anyways. And it'd be a waste of time.'

And of course, I can get kind of arrogant as well. But I try to stay as objective as possible. In fact, I've been exposing my weaknesses now to a few good friends, and it has it's good and bad sides, the bad sides mainly being in my own head. People will understand you better, but the feeling of not being in your own safe fort anymore is kind of annoying.

Yeah, INTP's are often overestimating their own ability in a very unrealistic fashion. Attempting to remain as realistically aware of our abilities and inabilities is truly healthy for us. I admit I have a true problem in this area.

 

[Stoic Beverage]

^

I'd have to agree with that. I wish I contribute more to this thread, but sadly, my brain isn't working the way that it usually does.

All I can think to say is that it seems that many of us seem to have rather haughty, arrogant, even narcissistic exteriors, beneath which lies a rather unvanquishable sense of inferiority. I guess that might not be fair to say, but it's the feeling I get - I'm sure it's partly coming from within myself, because I feel like that much of the time.

Half the time I'm arguing, it's more to convince myself than my opponent.

Ugh. Current mental state aside, I feel like I've been losing "it" over the course of the last year.

+1 to the first paragraph.
Then, +1 to the rest.

 

[EditorOne]

I think a lot of folks don't realize our corrections are often offered without any negativity. I think a lot of us don't realize our corrections are often taken by others as a reprimand. Awareness of this perception of our actions by others is very useful in figuring out why someone is suddenly hostile.
I'm coming from a world in which part of my job was editing news stories. I didn't hold it against folks if they made an occasional grammar slip, spelling mistake or unfinished edit leading to a garble sentence, but sometimes they seemed annoyed I'd picked it up. I did get annoyed, apparently, when people refused repeated admonishments to avoid passive voice in certain situations or stop leading a story with a parenthetical thought.
It helped a whole lot to recruit folks to review my own writing, gave me a chance to say "help me find the stuff I can't see because I thought I wrote it correctly and keep seeing what's in my head rather than what's on the screen." Interestingly enough, though, there were always a few pricks whose secret attitude (secret from me, revealed to others and then to me) was "He's making the big money, let him edit his own stuff." Yeah, and a big fuck you back. I might not be all that judgmental, but a pissy attitude violates one of my principles, which is we don't have time for stupid games because pretty soon we'll be dead. Also, "big money" was a relative thing, at the peak of my career I barely made as much as a union garbage truck driver in New York City. So fuck them, too.

 

[gnome]

A good example of my dream crushing ability is when I talk to an INFP friend. Here is a conversation example.

INFP : "Dude I am totally going to be as good as Chris Adler on drums."
Me : "Keep practicing. Oh and buy a new drum kit your cymbals are trashed."
INFP : "Oh this kit is good enough for now I am just using it to practice."
6+ months pass
Me : "So how is the drumming going... "
INFP : "Oh wow the guitar player quit and ..."
Me : "I thought you were going to be as good as..."
INFP : "I am way better now."
Me : "Did you get a new kit?"
INFP : "Still practicing..."
...

Here is another.
INFP : "Dude I can totally play the drums to this song."
Me : "Let me hear you do it. I'll bet you money you can't."
INFP : "I'll learn it within 2 weeks. $20."
Me : "Deal."
Two weeks pass
Me : "How is the song going? Will you be able to play the drums to a click track?"
INFP : Excuses start to come out. Oh that is just a drum machine no human can do this etc etc etc.

I notice ENTJ/ESTJ/INTJ try to crush my dreams when they have the upper ground in a conversation/social situation. They sometimes get the impression that they "won", but its usually because they are superficial. They view success as fortune, fame and glory a lot of times.

 

[final-dimension]

I do have arrogant tendencies, but they're kept strongly in check by my self-confidence issues. Whenever I think I'm right about something I feel uncomfortable pointing it out unless I know I know I can find some sort of evidence to back myself up if I need to. I also use words like "I think" and "probably" more often than anyone else I know as well

Me too ^^I use "I guess" very often.

 

[GYX_Kid]

i deeply shattered a gay narcissist (hypothesizing ENTJ) by pretty much doing absolutely nothing, besides the occasional nonchalant smartass jab. then i got perfectionistic and wanted to do more, so i pretended to be friendly and invited him over just so i could hurt him some more. i think he saw through it and just tried to throw more shit around.

i don't like to be arrogant and know-it-all-ish, something like a grammar nazi could get annoying.

 

[Trebuchet]

That is a good point, EditorOne, about people taking corrections negatively. I think I did not realize that when I was younger. I wish someone had pointed it out to me then.

I used to have a great time correcting people on facts, grammar, logic, and everything else. Then one day, while talking to my future sister-in-law, though I didn't know that then, I realized it would just be easier to let her win the argument. It wasn't like I cared about the fact we were discussing, anyway. These days, I mostly don't bother correcting anyone on anything unless it a) matters or b) is for fun, like here on on INTPf or with like-minded people. I have a wonderful time batting ideas and arguing logic with my INTJ husband. Most people just get sad.

Letting other people win when they are totally and absolutely wrong is kind of painful, but I find it has its rewards. For example, I have fewer arguments with people who don't enjoy logic. I don't get called arrogant so much any more, and I have more friends. And I like to think I've learned better how to tell when something is actually important.

As for grammar, my main concern is keeping bad grammar away from my grammar-school kid. What you hear is what you learn. I do correct her when she uses an adjective instead of an adverb, as in, "That's real interesting." I also correct other incorrect usages, but I'm not really a super stickler. Unlike her teacher, I don't mind if she says "yeah" instead of "yes," or uses other informal English. She had to use the word "plus" in a sentence, and since she was trying to create a coherent story out of her sentence words, she ended up writing, "That was a plus." I thought it was a creative use of the word, even if it wasn't formal writing.

I read Language Lot often, and they have convinced me to lighten up about language. Language should be used well, but languages change. I've stopped fighting singular "they" or worrying about the word "whom," although I still grumble about most subject-object confusions.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

To be honest, even though I am an INTP, I know almost nothing about grammar. Not in my native language and not in English, I just learned what sounds correct and what doesn't. When they ask for specific things like adjectives and adverbs in tests, I get confused and I mess things up because I don't know what they're talking about... (Don't laugh at me please ) I just know what sounds good and what doesn't. This means it still annoys me when peepol talk lyke dis u kno though.
But yeah, language changes, so I don't mind about informal habits in speech that are slowly turning into formal speech.


I love reading the replies to this thread, it's all so recognizable.

 

[Reluctantly]

INTPs are often seen as know-it-alls and annoying grammar nazis, do you think this is true for you?

---->

INTPs are often seen as know-it-alls and annoying grammar nazis; do you think this is true for you?

FIXED

All is well again.

You know, actually, on a serious note, I often see people complaining about grammar more to stifle the thoughts of another person or put them down if the discussion's participants are more involved in having an intellectual power exchange than a relevant discussion of a particular issue or idea. But that could be my own bias in how I view what a constructive discussion entails. I think lawyers, for example, would see this as one tactic of oral communication in a vast sea of social exchanges that always lead to a power exchange or law of the jungle in one way or another and would not at all understand how I can hold such a view.

 

[childish_intellect]

Perhaps but not almost always. It does me a good kick when I see spirited folk talk about their future. The world has been down in the dumps as of late. If anything I'm more of an upper. I am, surprisingly, a grammar tyrant. The English language is beautiful and to butcher it is simply a dishonorable disgrace. There are plenty of other beautiful tongues too, but I only speak of the things I know well.

 

[myexplodingcat]

Seeing as most INTPs keep to themselves, this isn't that much of a problem, especially since most are pretty easy-going and relatively friendly, even if they're not social. (There's a difference.)

I don't know, I can make people feel really dumb at times, then I feel guilty about it... but I don't know. Usually, my friends are pretty easy-going, too, and they often think it's amusing when I pipe up with something weird. It really depends who you're with.

You shouldn't call INTPs dream shatterers. People who are sensitive, content to be without knowledge, and won't accept corrections will eventually get their dreams shattered by SOMEONE, unless they lock themselves in a padded cell with seventeen dogs and a robot that says compliments every fifteen minutes. If you don't want your dreams to shatter, why throw them off of the cliff? It no make sense.
.............................

College educations don't help you survive in the world. Give an idiot squirrel a Ph.D and he'll get run over by a truck just like every other idiot squirrel.