$$$$ INTP team role $$$$

[Da Blob]

Unlike most of you lucky ones, I had to take my MBTI "test' as the initial assignment for a graduate course in Human Resources. After discussing the MBTI types, and a few other personality categorizations, we had to go into Team dynamics, group dynamics...
However, one thing that caught my ear, is that because of our relative scarcity, An INTP that can effectively function as a (mere) member of a dynamic team is often worth some major $$$$
There's quite a bit on 'INTPs roles in teams' on the net but I provided one link....


http://myers.team-technology.co.uk/blog/_archives/2006/12/16/2577749.html

 

[Chronomar]

Supply and Demand works in my favor...Brilliant!

 

[GarmGarf]

I did a 1 day game design workshop recently, and my weak Perception alignment paid off. Yes, I'm an INTP but on my first test I got 50/50 P/J.

Actually, it might not have been that. I was like the oldest in my group and I had the most knowledge/experience about game design (I'm the lead game mechanic designer for an on-line project), so naturally I started off by asking "who's good at art" etc. Everyone mutually agreed to make me the lead game designer (we had to assign each member a role), even though I wanted to be the general game designer. >_>

So it was either the knowledge/experience or I was using my Judge side or a combination or something.

Anyway, yeah, it went ok.

 

[Ogion]

Thread split (brought the posts about "MMDI Personality Type test" into a new thread) as requested.

Also bumping this thread to hint at the thread split (and because someone was interested in the OP as well).

Ogion

 

[Toad]

So what exactly is the role of an INTP in a group?

 

[snowqueen]

question, seek clarification, creative problem-solving, push an idea to a limit, come up with new ideas, shake things up a bit. In the Belbin team roles it corresponds to 'Plant'. If the company needs to keep up with a market it needs innovators - some companies employ 'Plant's just to think up wild ideas. This is one reason it's definitely worth getting a good university degree - because you can try to get on a graduate programme with a company and they'll probably do all these kinds of tests to work out where you are best placed.

 

[Concojones]

some companies employ 'Plant's just to think up wild ideas. This is one reason it's definitely worth getting a good university degree - because you can try to get on a graduate programme with a company and they'll probably do all these kinds of tests to work out where you are best placed.

Yep, the plant role sounds like a good fit indeed. Difficult to find plant roles in the job market though, IMO. By the way, I've been in one of those grad programmes that you mentioned. The variety was a plus. You still have to figure out for yourself where you are best placed, though. In my case: not in that company

 

[Beat Mango]

My team at work was given these Belbin team role questionnaires to complete. Very interesting stuff, I thought. I got double the "very high" score for plant - it really does seem like a totally INTP niche. I also scored high on completer/finisher (unsurprising when I read that this type is driven by anxiety) and monitor/evaluator (perhaps because of its objectivity).

I can see how it would be hard to get a job as a plant, for the same reason why it's hard to find a role as an INTP in life. Who wants to have their ideas about how things should be done shaken up? And I think the life analogy is very apt - the plant is to a team what an INTP is to life. In other words, the INTP's role in life is to be a plant, basically. I think that's what frustrated me about studying philosophy, too - I expected everyone to be a plant, I mean, I just assumed that that was the best position to tak: innovation, system building, etc (Nietzsche said the philosopher's job was to "show the way forward"- what better description of a plant?). But there are a lot of philosophers out there who are more complete/finishers or monitors/evaluators, seeking to iron out the errors in a current system rather than coming up with new ones.

So yeah, this Belbin stuff really puts things into a much neater perspective for me. I told my boss I was a plant, and she said that's what she thought I was and that it's really good, but I'm not sure if an innovator is all that important in the nature of work that I do. Hence, career change.

 

[GarmGarf]

I got about 50%/50%, Monitor-Evaluator/Plant, hinting towards the Monitor-Evaluator (I then "fudged the data" to get me exactly 50/50 because I misread a question).

I would have thought that INTPs would generally be Monitor-Evaluators first, and Plants second, with the whole Ti first and Ne second thing.

I'd reckon ENTPs would be the main Plant type, and, after all, Belbin said that Plant was one of the "extroverted roles"; i.e: Plants were more likely to be extroverted than one of the Belbin introverted roles, e.g: Monitor-Evaluators.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Garmgarf, do you think there's a chance that the MBTI and Belbin system are using different definitions of Extroverted & Introverted?

I think that at work INTPs get comfortable in their role, and then don't feel deterred from speaking their ideas when it is appropriate. We can go be a hermit after-work.

I would say that the Plant encompasses INTP and ENTP.

While I was looking at MBTI % numbers, I found a couple interesting charts.

(This graph comes from some paper that the public doesn't have access to, I think. Weird that I could get the pic link. Save it to your Hard Drives while you can!)

This came from an interesting article about whether we are properly serving our gifted students.
http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/Sak_SynthesisOfResearchOnPsychologicalTypes.shtml

 

[GarmGarf]

Garmgarf, do you think there's a chance that the MBTI and Belbin system are using different definitions of Extroverted & Introverted?

I think that at work INTPs get comfortable in their role, and then don't feel deterred from speaking their ideas when it is appropriate. We can go be a hermit after-work.

I would say that the Plant encompasses INTP and ENTP.

Yes, but I am sure a handful of the evidences for one system are the same as for the other, e.g: the tendency to seem reserved. That was my minor point at the end of my post.


However, you do make a good point that the Belbin team role system deals with people at work, while the MBTI deals with people 24/7, and yes, some people may seem MBTI extroverted at work while really being an introverted MBTI type.

And yeah, I can relate to what you mean personally too. When in my creative "zone", I can seem a bit extroverted, e.g: at game design meetings/sessions, where I have a lot to say.


I am interested in what MBTI types you think would fit the Monitor-Evaluator Belvin type the most.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I am interested in what MBTI types you think would fit the Monitor-Evaluator Belvin type the most.

I don't know shit...

oohhh, and I think this *might* be a Socratic-questioning trap.

Nifty image:

Describes the monitor evaluator. When I looked at it four hours ago, I was thinking that it describes a xNTJ. "Judges accurately" "Sober, strategic, discerning". I can understand an INTJ not being able to motivate others, but I think that ENTJ would, and they would bot have a strong internal drive.

I guess I see a conflict.
"Sober, strategic, discerning", "Judges accurately" VERSUS "Sees all options" "Lacks drive".
It's most definitely a NT. *possibly* a xNxP or xSTx.


edit///
I thought about this some more. I think that both Plant and MoniterEvaluator will be 70% NTs (or more?). However the difference between Plant and MonitorEvaluator isn't one that can be captured in the MBTI. I think that all 4 Rationals can be either one of them, depending on whether they feel like brainstorming out-of-the-box or if they feel like nit-picking. Which is something that can change daily for people.

 

[GarmGarf]

I don't know shit...

oohhh, and I think this *might* be a Socratic-questioning trap.

Well I had to Google what that meant. So if it depends on the intention, then no, it wasn't; I'm just simply on a search for knowledge and need another point of view to present more data and challenge my views so far.

Describes the monitor evaluator. When I looked at it four hours ago, I was thinking that it describes a xNTJ. "Judges accurately" "Sober, strategic, discerning". I can understand an INTJ not being able to motivate others, but I think that ENTJ would, and they would bot have a strong internal drive.

I guess I see a conflict.
"Sober, strategic, discerning", "Judges accurately" VERSUS "Sees all options" "Lacks drive".
It's most definitely a NT. *possibly* a xNxP or xSTx.

Yeah, I don't know; it's just that the Monitor-Evaluator was screaming "INTP" to me, with the whole "sees all options" and such. It seems very focused on analysis ("judges accurately"). Extroverted Thinking is all about efficiency and stuff, which is covered by other Belbin types, but for Monitor-Evaluator, it seems more that Introverted Thinking is going on.

edit///
I thought about this some more. I think that both Plant and MoniterEvaluator will be 70% NTs (or more?). However the difference between Plant and MonitorEvaluator isn't one that can be captured in the MBTI. I think that all 4 Rationals can be either one of them, depending on whether they feel like brainstorming out-of-the-box or if they feel like nit-picking. Which is something that can change daily for people.

Yeah, could be. Cheers.

 

[Beat Mango]

Hmmm you could have a point about the ENTP/plant thing - the weakness "ignores incidentals" sounds very ENTP, but the other one "too preoccupied to communicate effectively" sounds very introverted. Anyway some interesting stuff you guys have posted, but Reverse Trans, I don't quite get what your first chart means?? Is that the % of mbti types in various corporate jobs?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Yup banana, that's exactly what it is. So they MBTI'd "Manager"s and put down the percentages of what types were around.

 

[snowqueen]

Those charts are fascinating!! The highest gifteds were the NFPs and NTPs? And yet the highest career success was NTJ and STJ!

I score very high as 'plant' on Belbin. I would have thought the monitor/evaluators were ISTJs - the 'sees all options' indicates to me someone who needs all the (empirical) evidence before making a 'sober, strategic and discerning' decision. NTs are rarely that ploddy.

 

[Anthile]

Those charts are fascinating!! The highest gifteds were the NFPs and NTPs? And yet the highest career success was NTJ and STJ!

With that it directly contradicts that other MBTI-intelligence chart.

 

[snowqueen]

what 'other' one?

 

[Anthile]

http://libertycorner.blogspot.com/2004/03/iq-and-personality.html

 

[Puffy]

I'd be interested to take the Belbin tests unfortunately i'm a student with little funds. Are there any sites that offer a free test?

 

[GarmGarf]

I score very high as 'plant' on Belbin. I would have thought the monitor/evaluators were ISTJs - the 'sees all options' indicates to me someone who needs all the (empirical) evidence before making a 'sober, strategic and discerning' decision. NTs are rarely that ploddy.

I perceived the "sees all options" as referring to the product of Extroverted Intuition (and maybe Introverted Intuition too). ISTJs can be very rigid and not very open-minded, generally seeing what has worked in the past to be satisfactory.

 

[Beat Mango]

The ISTJ is surely the Implementer, the only one I got a zero score for incidentally.

 

[multisession]

Unlike most of you lucky ones, I had to take my MBTI "test' as the initial assignment for a graduate course in Human Resources. After discussing the MBTI types, and a few other personality categorizations, we had to go into Team dynamics, group dynamics...
However, one thing that caught my ear, is that because of our relative scarcity, An INTP that can effectively function as a (mere) member of a dynamic team is often worth some major $$$$
There's quite a bit on 'INTPs roles in teams' on the net but I provided one link....


http://myers.team-technology.co.uk/blog/_archives/2006/12/16/2577749.html

what do you mean by INTP scarcity? How scarce we are? (sorry for beginner's question)

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

what do you mean by INTP scarcity? How scarce we are? (sorry for beginner's question)

We are 1-4% of the population. I think the usual number is 3%, but a lot of profiles say 1%.

 

[reyo01]

In one personality test I took, INTPs were described as "Architects". Now, in the portfolio where I keep all of my important papers, I'm going to include copies of said personality test and the analysis of what an Introvert/Architect is. What will be on the front cover of this portfolio?

"*name*...Architect"

Hopefully any future empolyers will either understand the joke and enjoy the fact that I have a sense of humor, or ask why I put "Architect" when I'm applying with a Biology degree.

Anyway, here's what I found out about INTPs as Architects.

Rational Portrait of the Architect (INTP)Architects need not be thought of as only interested in drawing blueprints for buildings or roads or bridges. They are the master designers of all kinds of theoretical systems, including school curricula, corporate strategies, and new technologies. For Architects, the world exists primarily to be analyzed, understood, explained - and re-designed. External reality in itself is unimportant, little more than raw material to be organized into structural models. What is important for Architects is that they grasp fundamental principles and natural laws, and that their designs are elegant, that is, efficient and coherent.


Architects are rare - maybe one percent of the population - and show the greatest precision in thought and speech of all the types. They tend to see distinctions and inconsistencies instantaneously, and can detect contradictions no matter when or where they were made. It is difficult for an Architect to listen to nonsense, even in a casual conversation, without pointing out the speaker's error. And in any serious discussion or debate Architects are devastating, their skill in framing arguments giving them an enormous advantage. Architects regard all discussions as a search for understanding, and believe their function is to eliminate inconsistencies, which can make communication with them an uncomfortable experience for many.
Ruthless pragmatists about ideas, and insatiably curious, Architects are driven to find the most efficient means to their ends, and they will learn in any manner and degree they can. They will listen to amateurs if their ideas are useful, and will ignore the experts if theirs are not. Authority derived from office, credential, or celebrity does not impress them. Architects are interested only in what make sense, and thus only statements that are consistent and coherent carry any weight with them. Architects often seem difficult to know. They are inclined to be shy except with close friends, and their reserve is difficult to penetrate. Able to concentrate better than any other type, they prefer to work quietly at their computers or drafting tables, and often alone. Architects also become obsessed with analysis, and this can seem to shut others out. Once caught up in a thought process, Architects close off and persevere until they comprehend the issue in all its complexity. Architects prize intelligence, and with their grand desire to grasp the structure of the universe, they can seem arrogant and may show impatience with others who have less ability, or who are less driven.
Albert Einstein as the iconic Rational is an Architect
Dr. David Keirsey, Robert Rosen, George Soros, Gregory Peck, James Madison, Ludwig Boltzman, Charles Darwin, Adam Smith, and Thomas Jefferson" /> are examples of the Architect Rationals
A full description of the Architect and Rational is in People Patterns or Please Understand Me II
More About Your Rational Architect Personality:
Careers: Best Job Fit for Rationals Dealing With Stress at Work: Rational Strategies
Relationships: Women and Romance - Rational Women Men and Romance - The Rational Lover Love the One You're With - Tips for Rationals With Non-Rational Partners
School: Rational Students: Maximizing Your Study Environment Rationals: Capitalizing on Your Strategic Intelligence Style
Receive Monthly Articles on Being A Rational Architect: The Keirsey PersonalityZone Newsletter

Architect | Fieldmarshal | Inventor | Mastermind​

http://keirsey.com/handler.aspx?s=keirsey&f=fourtemps&tab=5&c=architect

 

[snowqueen]

I'm sure I've read this description before but today it really resonated with me. It's when I read descriptions like this that I absolutely know I'm INTP - but I'm not so reserved any more which I actually regret. People can engage me too easily these days. My boundaries need tightening up.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I was looking at the thread title again...
"INTP-team Role"

So, what kind of role would a team of INTPs have?


(I'm thinking "perpetual philosophical debate machine")

 

[reyo01]

I was looking at the thread title again...
"INTP-team Role"

So, what kind of role would a team of INTPs have?


(I'm thinking "perpetual philosophical debate machine")

I'm guessing we wouldn't be able to get shit done...We'd just be a group of arrogant, opinionated dickwads. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being the arrogant, opinionated dickwad of the group, but two of me in a single group is one too many. I'd go homicidal.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I'm guessing we wouldn't be able to get shit done...We'd just be a group of arrogant, opinionated dickwads. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy being the arrogant, opinionated dickwad of the group, but two of me in a single group is one too many. I'd go homicidal.

oh dude... I'm sorry you're a dickwad... not all of us are like that. I think you can get an over-the-counter cream for that condition?

Willingness to argue about everything, that is true, that could slow things down.

In one class there were 4-person groups to do really tough homework that required a lot of theoretical thoughts and sciencey-guessing. One group had three INTPs and a ??ExFx?? Two INTPs were wicked smart and argumentative (they are two of my best college friends), the third INTP was a slacker and would show up to meetings stoned (he was my drug dealer) and the ExFx would demand the INTPs to re-explain their answers to her until *she* could understand them. That was crucial, but it helps them form what their actual answer would be, and make sure that they didn't miss any details while they had their heads in the clouds.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

I have always wanted to take a course where there's me and 6-7 other INTPs. I don't even care what the subject is, that'd be freaking awesome.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I have always wanted to take a course where there's me and 6-7 other INTPs. I don't even care what the subject is, that'd be freaking awesome.

I had a creative writing seminar (7 students) pretty similar to that. It was fun, but a little bit sad. There was a Chinese exchange student who had terrible english, who I couldn't type, but it felt like there were 4 INTPs, a ENxx, and a INFx. The teacher was NF.

 

[reyo01]

oh dude... I'm sorry you're a dickwad... not all of us are like that. I think you can get an over-the-counter cream for that condition?

Willingness to argue about everything, that is true, that could slow things down.

In one class there were 4-person groups to do really tough homework that required a lot of theoretical thoughts and sciencey-guessing. One group had three INTPs and a ??ExFx?? Two INTPs were wicked smart and argumentative (they are two of my best college friends), the third INTP was a slacker and would show up to meetings stoned (he was my drug dealer) and the ExFx would demand the INTPs to re-explain their answers to her until *she* could understand them. That was crucial, but it helps them form what their actual answer would be, and make sure that they didn't miss any details while they had their heads in the clouds.

Oh not at all (it actually requires somethign along the lines of Chemotherapy, but who's counting...), though I was in a group with 3 INTPs and the other two just sat there yelling at each other untill the teacher couldn't take it anymore. I would've stepped in, but I agreed with what both of them were arguing about (surprisingly enough). That and it was more fun watching the two of them tear each other apart.

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

So I looked at the gifted chart and decided it needed another analysis-column.
The Gifted % / Norm % ratio. I think it does a better job at comparing the different type's Giftedness in comparison to each other.

I'm talking to sagewolf online, and e pointed out that we don't know what definition of "gifted" schools are using. It's probably somewhere in that paper I linked to... :/ Laziness triumphs!

Here it is: (I also re-organized the MBTI type list.)

We can even compare what factors are the most important!
(15 minutes later... after some more excel-fun...)
Here are the ratios for the different traits

S: 0.410685 N: 2.257295

E: 0.774437 I: 1.414058

T: 1.133754 F: 0.877216

J: 0.722314 P: 1.332599

N >> I > P > T

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

That is really pretty cool, RT.