INTP pushover

[Question Authority]

I notice that I sometimes act very passively towards others, to the point where I'll sometimes avoid conflict, even minor, inconsequential conflict. Like, for example, about a year and a half ago in an engineering team project (the bane of my existance), I'd watch my team mates wreck the project with bad idea after bad idea, all, or almost all of which I could see coming, and even if not, I'd 'sense' (read: intuition) something... wrong with the design. I would always just stand back, leaving them to watch themselves fail, rather than interject with my own ideas. Eventually, I'd pull them through it, but it would all be on my shoulders, with very little time left to the deadline.

I'm not sure why I do stuff like this, but I have some theories: The first of which, is my Fe. The only part of my Fe with an even remote bit of development is my Personal Consideration Facet, in that I act politely, and courteously, and soften my bad news. This appears in this context, even too developed. Instead of polite and courteous, I'm submissive, and instead of softening blows, I just gloss over them entirely.

Apart from that, It might be part of my whole Introversion. Rather than step in, I allow my Ne to observe the project, and run it through my Ti, to see problems with it and notice stuff that just seems 'wrong,' but without a strong Extroverted Judging function, I won't speak up about it.

Anyone else have these problems? Anyone else have any other theories?

 

[Wahrheitsliebe]

Now, I have never quite had your problem, except for one piece. Sometimes I do feel like I'm living from an observational point of view, instead of an active point of view. I will go thorough things analyzing and thinking about events and people that I come into contact with, but I'll never act on any of it, but instead just think.

In all the sports I've ever played, in school or for fun, I always go thorugh a time period when I know what to do, but just don't. Seriously, once I was standing on the court during a basketball game plotting out what to do, and everyone else just kept moving and I didn't start enacting my plan until it was too late.

So, I think that the natural INTP thing of thinking a lot about things in a detached way and not feeling the need to control things or interfere is one factor in this for you, and maybe another is actually the lack of more fully developed and matured social skills.

I think you've developed one of your skills, being considerate, as you've said, , and relied on just that to get through social situations. While it's not wrong to be polite, it isn't beneficial to be the one with good ideas, but to keep your mouth shut.

If you had brought up your ideas to your engineering team, what do you think their response would have been? If you have any concerns about this predicted response, what are they? Do you doubt your ability to react well after that point?

I think these sorts of questions about any time you've held back would provide insight as to part of why you do what you do.

 

[Trebuchet]

Anyone else have these problems? Anyone else have any other theories?

Yeah, I used to be like that. I suppose it is Fe, but mostly I think it was loneliness and low self esteem. I didn't have many friends growing up, and my usual strategy (which didn't work) was to try to please people, in hopes that they would like me. I thought that because I didn't fit in well, there was something wrong with me and I should let the normal people do what they did, and not get in the way.

I am much better about it now, and it is mainly a matter of choosing my battles. I don't have time to fight everything, so I only bother when it is important to me. Return on investment, you know.

I am certainly not saying that is why you act this way. You might have realized instinctively that you are surrounded by primadonnas who wouldn't listen anyway. Maybe it was schadenfreude. I don't know. But if the results aren't what you want, you need to fix that. Unfortunately, the problem, while partially yours, may not be all you.

Conflict is very difficult for some people, and probably personality type plays a big part in that, but I think skill matters more. People who like conflict usually get a big thrill out of "winning" by making someone else lose. But that is not the only purpose to conflict. If your goal is for the project to hash out strategies and make the project successful, then mixing it up with an alpha jerk won't help much. If it all ends up on your shoulders, it sounds like you are around the kind of people who like to steal credit, and find scapegoats for their own failures. Is there a way to switch teams at work? If not, is there a way to call people on their unproductive behaviors?

If your team is actually nice, then you'll just have to try some minor conflict, and with practice it will come easier. I've been there, and I assure you it is true. It takes a lot of nerve to get started, though.

 

[Question Authority]

Well, as I said, this was about a year and a half ago, so I'm already past this particular indecent, it was just the one that best came to my head at the time. I don't however, think that it's to please people, or make them like me, since these people already sort of liked me (well, to the extent that I needed them to). It was more that I didn't want to make them feel like I was talking down to them, and that they were just there to just be my manual labor, as I tried to instruct them how to not screw it up (which is what ended up happening anyway.)

 

[Vrecknidj]

Path of least resistance. Sometimes allowing other people to fail or screw things up teaches them more directly that they don't understand something. If you choose instead to tell them that they don't understand something, up front, you might not get to your desired end point as easily or quickly than if you let others stumble.

Just a thought.

 

[Trebuchet]

It was more that I didn't want to make them feel like I was talking down to them, and that they were just there to just be my manual labor.

Ah! I understand. To avoid sounding like you are talking down to people, you must find genuine respect for them inside yourself. They will sense it and respond.

I used to be in IT and I also taught the employees computer skills. I was frequently told that the reason people liked my explanations was that I didn't talk down to them. The reason I didn't was that I respected them. Some weren't as smart as me, most knew less about computers, but all of them had some skill that I lacked, and I kept that firmly in mind.

You will have to play around with phrases that don't sound condescending. Instead of "That won't work," try "I'm concerned that..." or "What if we tried...." Using "we" is a good trick. It includes you in the group, and them in the problem solving. Asking questions instead of making statements is also useful.

The mere fact that you recognize the danger of being condescending probably is half of your solution right there.

And I'm glad to hear they liked you already.

 

[Particle]

I do find myself with your problem quite a bit. During a discussion, I often don't say half of the things I think of saying. It's not because what I'm contemplating is cruel or rude, but I just don't know how to put it out there correctly or I want to avoid potential conflict. I really, really like to avoid conflict in certain situations. I don't know where the boundaries lie exactly between where I'll speak up and won't.

 

[Lobstrich]

@ OP - I've definately tried the thing you mention about watching your 'team' ruin the project, or just let them do it themselves. I know I do this because I am not interested in whatever it is that we're supposed to be doing.

I'm rarely passive about things I'm passionate about.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

@ OP - I've definately tried the thing you mention about watching your 'team' ruin the project, or just let them do it themselves. I know I do this because I am not interested in whatever it is that I'm doing.

I'm rarely passive about things I'm passionate about.

^ That describes my feeling about this perfectly.
I never really do anything in group projects for school, or am a good 'team-player', whether it's in sports or not. However, if it's something that truly interests me, I will be very critical and hardworking.

 

[EditorOne]

"Sometimes allowing other people to fail or screw things up teaches them more directly that they don't understand something. If you choose instead to tell them that they don't understand something, up front, you might not get to your desired end point as easily or quickly than if you let others stumble."

Additionally, it sometimes takes more time and energy to explain what's wrong than to just let it happen and be handy with a quick alternative. If there's gunpowder involved, however, it's best to speak up.

 

[scorpiomover]

I used to be a real pushover.

These days, if someone wants to do something stupid, I will try to politely explain why they are barking up the wrong tree. But, if they don't listen, then I get out of the way, and let them learn the hard way, but make damn sure that I am not in the firing line. If I am in the firing line, then I make sure that whoever needs to know, knows that I warned them. If anything is directed at me, I will point out that I did warn them first, and so it's not my fault. If they are likely to deny I warned them, then I will keep a diary of all our communications, and will send letters via recorded delivery, etc, and keep a photocopy, so that I can prove I did.

It sounds like a lot of work, and, I guess, it is. But it's nothing compared to the effort I had to make, to bail others out of their problems.

I also found that before I did this, people didn't respect me. But once I ensured that I couldn't be blamed for their screw-ups, because when I was involved, I had warned them in advance, they realised that I was worth listening to. People took me a lot more seriously after that.