INTP or INFP and Ti and Fi

[Nocturna]

I really need to make sense of this, so any help will be deeply appreciated.
Most of the time I score as a INTP, although sometimes I get INFP instead. Either way, the F and P are always extremely close in percentage. Reading both descriptions I can easily identify with both to an extent, both fit but neither does it entirely. I have the INFPs idealism and INTPs absolute need for facts and cynicism. So I tried looking at the cognitive functions and see if they could untie the score, it's been to no avail. In quizzes I always score extremely high (>90%) in both Ti and Fi, moderately high in Si and moderate in Ne. Reading the descriptions it makes sense, I recognize myself in both the extreme Ti and extreme Fi, I can't choose one over the other. I'm beginning to think this may be the reason why I internalize everything, it's like I've spent my life trying to absorb the world in an attempt to recreate it within myself and thus make it real, thinking that only when I finally succeed (and knowing very well that it's impossible) will I be able to really connect to the world outside and people in particular. There are universes inside my mind, it's also my prison. I want so much to connect at a deep level that I end up feeling that I can't connect at all. I have no idea if I'm a dysfunctional INTP who's incapable of expressing feelings or a dysfunctional INFP who never learned to how to be organized. I feel like both. I am both. So what do I do? Do I try to develop Te or Fe, knowing that by picking one I may actually be doing the opposite of what might be helpful in the long run?

 

[smithcommajohn]

I get INFP sometimes. My Fi and Ti are both strong as well. I associate slightly more with the INTP definition, so I generally accept it as my type, but I could easily be INFP trapped in an INTP's body.

I don't think trying to develop Te or Fe (my lowest 2 functions, btw, Fe as lowest) will change who you are... INxP.

 

[Jennywocky]

You could just accept that you are an idealistic person who also has a strong need for logical coherence.

You're trying to jam yourself into a type description. You do not exist for type; type exists for you. It's not a perfect system; sometimes the categorizes are easy to see and can be helpful in steering you, sometimes they are not. The last thing you want to do is try to mold yourself to conform to the theory.

Ask yourself how you respond spontaneously in different circumstances. Are you consistent? Can you describe yourself? Do you know yourself without using theory language? We're going beyond MBTI here, which is just an external system of convenient labels anyway; we're looking for the more explicit and nuanced you. You are bigger than MBTI. We all are.

(... gawd, on one hand that sounds lovely, and on the other hand I feel like I'm full of shite.)

But is it useful?

... I could easily be INFP trapped in an INTP's body.

I can release you.

...But it will hurt.

 

[smithcommajohn]

I can free you.

...But it will hurt.

I respect the honesty. Can I get some nitrous at least?

 

[Nocturna]

Thank you for the input.

It's not that I'm trying to fit into a type just for the sake of it. I'd say I'm going through a mid life crisis if I didn't feel like most of my life has been one long crisis (it's the INFP side probably, the glooming, misunderstood artist). I need to change something because I've come to a point I can't do anything at all but absorve and process information within myself and nothing visible seems to come out of it. I just spend time within myself and resent any single call of the outside world, from real calls from friends to the basic calls like needing to buy food. What's the point of internalizing everything if I can't produce anything of value or connect with people? I'm looking for something that makes me believe there is a point to my existence, some meaning to al of this or something else that can help me change and become a little more productive and people friendly. That's why, once again, I'm back to MBTI types and functions, trying to understand how I work in order to learn what I need/want to change.

 

[green acid]

I get the same type of MBTI scores as people on this thread. The same enneagram scores too. Could the high Fi or Ti be from some subpersonality? Some guy (I think an ENTJ) told me and my friends that we all have personas for social or intimate situations that may use different functions because of our backgrounds.

 

[smithcommajohn]

Thank you for the input.

It's not that I'm trying to fit into a type just for the sake of it. I'd say I'm going through a mid life crisis if I didn't feel like most of my life has been one long crisis (it's the INFP side probably, the glooming, misunderstood artist). I need to change something because I've come to a point I can't do anything at all but absorve and process information within myself and nothing visible seems to come out of it. I just spend time within myself and resent any single call of the outside world, from real calls from friends to the basic calls like needing to buy food. What's the point of internalizing everything if I can't produce anything of value or connect with people? I'm looking for something that makes me believe there is a point to my existence, some meaning to al of this or something else that can help me change and become a little more productive and people friendly. That's why, once again, I'm back to MBTI types and functions, trying to understand how I work in order to learn what I need/want to change.

I really identify with all of this.

It's hard to find our role in this life or a meaning behind it all. I can tell you that socializing (even if just online) can help bring some balance to us when we're too internally focused. We may be introverts, but we're not complete hermits. We need some interactions, no matter how much we think we may not.

That's my take, anyway. YMMV

 

[onesteptwostep]

It's probably your Ti that's masquerading around Fi as its own. Fi users are usually much more intuitive emotionally. Just my personal thoughts.

Here's a couple of articles on INTP/INFP if you're interested: http://personalityjunkie.com/category/infps/

Moreover I think types become more pronounced as you interact with more people, so it's more like a playdough concept rather than something that's set in stone.

edit: oh and this is a fun little comparison: http://www.preludecharacteranalysis.com/types/intp/vs/infp

 

[ENTP lurker]

Fi is not analytical. Period.
If you connect the points through logical patterns as primary analytical way there is no change for Fi.

Fi is push, pull, like, dislike etc. Foreign stuff for me.

Example of INFP creativity: When a child wont come in. Let's make him/her feel lonely and they'll come in.Stuff like that as manipulation through their inner needs and ties.

 

[Nocturna]

It's probably your Ti that's masquerading around Fi as its own.

Care to explain a bit further please?
Thanks for the links btw.
Found this one article which is quite interesting, about Fi vs Ti: http://personalityjunkie.com/05/introverted-feeling-fi-vs-introverted-thinking-ti/

Still can't figure out which is my primary. I actually ended up buying the guy's book and after a quick browse found out once again that when it comes to feelings I don't recognize myself there. INTPs are prone to love at first sight? I'm the extreme opposite of it! I've even been wondering lately if I'm truly empathetic or just very good at reading patterns and came to conclude that I am indeed empathetic, I just don't make a fuss out of emotions. I remember being a very small kid and hitting another kid with my feet when I was playing on a swing, the other kid walked away not really bothered by what had happened and I began crying because I'd hurt or might have hurt her. If anything, I feel other people's emotions too much, especially the darker ones. Apart from that, I seem to actually function primarily with Ti indeed. It's like a sort of split personality, I use Ti for things and Fi for people. Actually, the book came with a link to another test, slightly different from the free ones and guess my results? When it comes to F/T: 50%, your result was inconclusive and needs further clarifying. I guess I truly am an hybrid, unfortunately that makes things a lot harder when trying to find answers.

Right now I feel like MBTI typing has exhausted it's usefulness to my inner quest. I read things like INTPs always have Fe as it's inferior function and if it seems differently it's because something is masquerading it, likewise for INFPs and Te. Well, I've got neither. I'm all Ti and Fi everywhere, maybe that's why I'm so dysfunctional. I feel like I'd need to probably take a college degree in Psychology to evaluate how much that's actually true or if it's a valid assumption that I'm actually an exception. Right now I don't really feel like it.

 

[onesteptwostep]

My theory is that the 'Fi' INTPs might feel or experience is actually done through the lens of Ti. Like I said Fi is much more intuitive rather than something that's cerebral. My unilateral actions towards people, for example, is more do to a principled reasoning rather than an intuitive, bond like assistance.

According to the article you posted I think this sentence is definitive: "So rather than revolting against Te systems, IFPs tend to resist Fe systems perceived to impinge on their personal tastes or moral sensibilities."

INTPs have their cutsie joking side to them, INFPs by contrast are more serious (due to Te).

I would argue against there being a hybrid of types, but type is malleable so you might just be going through a rough patch in life. Type transition, if it happens somehow, is usually due to a catalyst, by some events in the life around you.

p.s. At first I thought you could be INTP, just to start off somewhere, but after your response INFP seems a bit more likely.

 

[Nocturna]

Thank you for your patience, though I'm still not convinced that hybrids aren't possible. As you can see, I've been a member here for over 7 years (I know, bad member, I don't post much) and had already become interested in MBTI types prior to that. The graph in my signature is from when I first joined and nothing really has changed since then (I must have been on a particularly adventurous day, I always get N but it's usually a not particularly strong one), I've always been oscillating between F and T depending on day and how questions are formulated.

A couple of examples about how I usually function: I buy my Winter clothes for warmth and comfort, it's a deliberate thing, if they suit those criteria then I add personal taste and price to reach a conclusion on what to buy. I buy my Summer clothes mostly on a whim, I walk by a window store and sometimes just fall madly in love with a dress or top, if the price is reasonable I just buy it. Typical example of how I buy an appliance: first I go to a couple of stores, ask for catalogues or take notes about their specifications. Then I go online and check not only online stores but look for further details about each product, I make a list, compare reviews, eventually narrow it down to 3 or 4 possibilities. Then I can't go any further because one is great but above planned budget, the other is ok but doesn't have that specific program, the other is from a brand I never heard of and I worry it won't have assistance if it breaks down. So what do I do? I let it simmer, usually for a couple of weeks, until one fine afternoon I'm driving by one of the stores that sells 1 of the 3 or 4 selected possibilities and I think why not? I didn't exactly make up my mind, it's a whim born out of boredom and not knowing how to get more facts.

So, if I can't decide what's my primary function, I decided to look deeper into the lower one (Ne and Si being common to both types). Apart from the love at first sight thing, I actually recognize myself a lot in what the author of the book says are the possible pitfalls of an inferior Fe. Then again, and although I haven't found an as much in depth description of the pitfalls of a lower Te, from what I've found I have them too. It's no wonder I constantly feel like I'm being pulled apart from all sides. I need independence, but I need people to need me; I can't stand routine but changing something on my day causes me stress; I need recognition of my work but can't stand it when people actually compliment me, it makes me uncomfortable. I also don't like feeling this self-centered and asking for advice for myself but it's like I'm trapped in this room, being pulled apart, and I just can't figure out where's the secret lever that opens the door.

And btw, I do have a cutsie sense of humour, if other people get it or not is a different matter (they usually don't). I like your signature, it makes me laugh because it's just the perfect INTP version of that rhyme.

 

[intp_xp]

So, if I can't decide what's my primary function, I decided to look deeper into the lower one (Ne and Si being common to both types). Apart from the love at first sight thing, I actually recognize myself a lot in what the author of the book says are the possible pitfalls of an inferior Fe. Then again, and although I haven't found an as much in depth description of the pitfalls of a lower Te, from what I've found I have them too. It's no wonder I constantly feel like I'm being pulled apart from all sides. I need independence, but I need people to need me; I can't stand routine but changing something on my day causes me stress; I need recognition of my work but can't stand it when people actually compliment me, it makes me uncomfortable. I also don't like feeling this self-centered and asking for advice for myself but it's like I'm trapped in this room, being pulled apart, and I just can't figure out where's the secret lever that opens the door.

I have been struggling a bit with figuring it out also but what you posted here along with a few of your prior posts sounds pretty much like me. Reading the description at 16personalities, i'd be considered a classic INTP. However, like you, I can relate to some other types and having empathy but not controlled by it. I am still in the research phase but I believe part of it is due to me living beyond my personality and perhaps spending more than half my life (20 years) with my INFJ wife. I have exhausted my mind researching but hoping for my head to clear and perhaps have it just come to me.

 

[Nocturna]

From what I've been reading, you may either be an hybrid like myself or maybe you just reached the "enlightened" phase of a true INTP, which supposedly happens when one gets in touch with emotions and develops our typical lower function Fe. Then again, I think that's supposed to bring a bit of a sense of calm which, from your own words, you don't seem to have reached.

I recommend the ebook I mentioned before, the price is quite reasonable and it has some interesting theories and food for further thought. It was also written by a INTP, which is mostly a plus. But if you're anything like me, there will still be a few minor things that won't fall quite into place.
http://personalityjunkie.com/intp-book-personality-careers-relationships-truth-meaning/

The more I've been reading the less the theory of having to fit neatly into one category or another makes sense to me. Those with a background in psychology seem to be trying to fit everyone into tight, hermetically closed boxes and if something doesn't fit quite right it's because Si is interfering with a high Ne to mimic the effect of an underdeveloped Fe, or something like that. As a biologist that sounds a bit like too much guesswork for me. There's a reason the normal distribution is thus named, it's because well, it's the most common and illustrates what most often happens in nature. I see no reason why everyone should be tightly packed in the middle of each of the 16 boxes. It makes a lot more sense that some people are leaning against the sides, once in a while they even jump from box to box and in some rare cases they actually sit on top of the sides of two adjacent boxes and stay there, (un)happily swinging one leg on each side.

I know I dislike bleeding hearts as much as I dislike no heart at all. Facts have to be measured against emotions (mine and those of others) and emotions and instinct reactions have to measured against facts. There's no other way around it for me. It's possible I was born to be a mild INFP, (un)fortunately an over-scared, over-dependent ISTJ mother and a "as long as I pay the bills she's her mother's problem" probably ESTJ father (bonus points for being an actual Army officer, specialized in management) did a very good job in teaching me how not to display or act upon emotions, especially the good ones. I still feel a lot, I just keep it all very well locked inside and can't act on them. Nowadays and ever since I began using the MBTI, I more often score as INTP. On the enneagram I always get 5, the rational, often with a very strong 4 wing, the individualist, and a slightly less strong 6 wing, the loyalist. Sometimes, in second, I get 4 with a 5 wing instead, but the percentages are extremely close. The difference is that 4s are apparently capable of easily displaying emotions, which is not at all my case. So 5 it has to be and closer to INTP, but just by the skin of my teeth.

 

[intp_xp]

I have come to terms with who I am and I am comfortable with it. What I appear to be struggling with is falsification of type (thanks bvanevery). Everything I have read up to now didn't quite fit but now it is all starting to make sense.

Personally, I think what throws me off is the Ne and Ti being at odds. It's amazing how I can go from deep contemplation to whimsical in a heartbeat. Yeah, I am one of the few guys (only?) I know that will call himself whimsical and it may not be the correct word but I do like it. I wanted to think of myself as bipolar/cyclothymic but again, doesn't quite fit. Either way, when Ne and Ti are working together, it's quite amazing. Really, I think this is what can make people seem like hybrids, it's a mix of your functions acting at once in different percentages which causes different reactions than when acting alone. Throw in some behavior changes due to do certain life situations and who you are at times can get a bit hazy.

As for falsification, I gained more duties in project management when a previous manager and colleague (a few months prior) moved to another department. The new manager wasn't really a great manager but we got along well and I pretty much did my own thing so it really wasn't a burden taking on new duties. That and I adapt pretty well.

I work for a large company and during a market downturn and bad management decisions, they started clearing house. This put me into a situation where I had to take on additional management duties of a project I have always hoped I would never get. Being the nice guy I am and my ability to learn and adapt, I said what the hell.

About a year ago, the new manager retired and the previous manager came back. In the same time, another manager retired that managed the customer side manager of the new project I owned. Both new managers are more detail/ time sensitive oriented. So, I have been getting pushed from multiple directions on all my projects and that does not work very well with me. If not for the double duties, I may have been fine. Either way, I am known by upper management for getting my stuff done and before deadline but all this having details and schedules and other stuff I don't have direct control over must just be destroying me. Throw in a little management style of just get it done attitude with my bigger picture and doing it the right way is just another cause for internal chaos.

Now, it's just figuring out what I can do and before I finally lose it.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I think I would have to be an Fi user rather than Ti - I use the wrong words for pretty much everything!

Ti types tend to say things in the correct way, correct?

Plus my general distaste for logical deduction. I'm great at maths until they bring logic into it!

 

[Architect]

People usually mistype themselves in their inferior, the great 'inferior attraction'. So you are probably an INFP who types themselves as a thinker (Te inferior) so come out INTP.

The other mistake is for IN types to mistype J/P. I'm a dominant inner judger but outer perceiver (Ti/Ne) so I screwed up on both. I originally thought I was an INFJ (outer judger, Fe auxiliary) and then INTJ (same except thinking). Finally I understood that I'm INTP, dominant judger but it's inwards.

 

[Brontosaurie]

Something clicked with me thinking ENTP -> Fi PoLR (see socionics)

 

[OmoInisa]

Something clicked with me thinking ENTP -> Fi PoLR (see socionics)

Has Bronto too found his way to the one true religion?

 

[Brontosaurie]

Has Bronto too found his way to the one true religion?

Nah. But i haven't formed a negative complex around it either. It has some good stuff.

Are you being sarcastic or not, btw? Do you 'believe' in socionics or do you oppose it?

 

[OmoInisa]

Nah. But i haven't formed a negative complex around it either. It has some good stuff.

Are you being sarcastic or not, btw? Do you 'believe' in socionics or do you oppose it?

I take what I find useful from it. The religion quip was a reference to the odd fanaticism that seems to plague many of its exclusive adherents.

 

[Brontosaurie]

I take what I find useful from it. The religion quip was a reference to the odd fanaticism that seems to plague many of its exclusive adherents.

Alright. Well, you got your answer, though perhaps the question was just a vehicle for the quip.

 

[OmoInisa]

Alright. Well, you got your answer, though perhaps the question was just a vehicle for the quip.

It wasn't actually. I'm always glad to see people with a firm appreciation of both systems. As well as an awareness of the weaknesses and excesses of both.
The world has enough myopic fanatics.

EyeSeeCold is one member whose conception of the functions seems heavily coloured by Socionics.
Mine is less so. My synthesis of Jung's original definitions with those from Socionics and MBTI will differ from ESC's, or yours, or anyone else's. And it's the creative collision of those compound perspectives within us and between us that makes a forum like this so powerful.

 

[Architect]

It wasn't actually. I'm always glad to see people with a firm appreciation of both systems. As well as an awareness of the weaknesses and excesses of both.
The world has enough myopic fanatics.

EyeSeeCold is one member whose conception of the functions seems heavily coloured by Socionics.
Mine is less so. My synthesis of Jung's original definitions with those from Socionics and MBTI will differ from ESC's, or yours, or anyone else's. And it's the creative collision of those compound perspectives within us and between us that makes a forum like this so powerful.

Speaking of members ideas I highly respect and am interested to hear your opinions; please don't be shy with sharing them.

 

[Brontosaurie]

It wasn't actually. I'm always glad to see people with a firm appreciation of both systems. As well as an awareness of the weaknesses and excesses of both.
The world has enough myopic fanatics.

EyeSeeCold is one member whose conception of the functions seems heavily coloured by Socionics.
Mine is less so. My synthesis of Jung's original definitions with those from Socionics and MBTI will differ from ESC's, or yours, or anyone else's. And it's the creative collision of those compound perspectives within us and between us that makes a forum like this so powerful.

What's your type?

I would say ENFP or INFJ.

 

[OmoInisa]

Speaking of members ideas I highly respect and am interested to hear your opinions; please don't be shy with sharing them.

Thanks Architect. Likewise.

What's your type?

I would say ENFP or INFJ.

Hardly. Though I'm flattered by the presumption that I'm naturally gifted in the realm of feeling.
INTP LII 5w6 594. And I raise a hat to your ENFP nod to my Gemini sun

It is interesting actually. This forum is a context in which I'm very much in my element. There's no real threat or sanction against my Ti and Ne, so I have psychological bandwidth aplenty to skillfully excercice my Fe. I think Architect mentioned in the past that the best path to development is via the exploration of one's strong functions rather than coercion of the weak ones. I'm inclined to agree. One could say that INTPForum shows me a tantalising glimpse of my individuated self.

The real world outside doesn't afford me this luxury (at least not at this point in my life), hence you'll see a more stereotypical INTP outside of this rarefied arena.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Something clicked with me thinking ENTP -> Fi PoLR (see socionics)

For selftype? Would you mind describing what Fi PoLR means to you?

It wasn't actually. I'm always glad to see people with a firm appreciation of both systems. As well as an awareness of the weaknesses and excesses of both.
The world has enough myopic fanatics.

EyeSeeCold is one member whose conception of the functions seems heavily coloured by Socionics.
Mine is less so. My synthesis of Jung's original definitions with those from Socionics and MBTI will differ from ESC's, or yours, or anyone else's. And it's the creative collision of those compound perspectives within us and between us that makes a forum like this so powerful.

The theories proposed in Socionics go above and beyond what MBTI lays claim to in the psyche to the extent it mirrors a mind driven insane, for such grand assumptions about society and the psyche cannot be possibly all be true, and it's surely unscientific to entertain them. This is partly what drove Freud and Jung apart, and why they both had their respective schools and why even today there exists pockets of fanaticism. Aside from the high school culture of some forums...

But yes, the blood of Aušra Augusta flows through my veins.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

@OP

Consider INFJ. The idealistic component will probably make sense to you, but the position of Ti on the functional stack is often misleading because it's expressed more than expected via the Ni-Ti loop, wherein Ni is frequently hidden to both the self and others.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Fi PoLR imo:

Spoiler

I may indulge in being a bastard to people because otherwise I'd be obsessed with walking on eggshels. I assume relations are good until the other person says they're not. If someone told me I pissed them off / hurt their feelings my choices are to either surrender completely which would expose my vulnerabilities in dealing with people or I could up the ante until I win / we both get over it. I joke about negative feelings and upset people to make light of them. What I like about formalized relationships such as parent, teacher, supervisor is that I know the boundaries and expectations.