INTP obsession, creation and recognition

[merzbau]

...reading through again, i'm aware this sounds like a colossal whinge, but i'm posting it, whinging and all, 'cause that's how i roll.


something i've always found strange about being intp is the inner contradiction between the obsessive drive to create, and spurning other people's validation of that creativity.

for me, i think it started as mimicry, seeing artists' works, and wondering if i could do something like them, but over the years my creativity became a source of strength, a lifetime obsession that alleviates some existential frustration; it lightens the drudgery of everyday labor to know that although i'm spending my life working something meaningless job, at least i'll have something to show for it. i'm leaving something behind. a legacy, an influence, something original and distinct.
yet i can't truly find it in myself to care about the ocean of humans i walk through, their opinions and their games. i think i have more in common with jellyfish. why do i care what they think about me?

so it goes, cycling around my head again..

most of the time, it's a huge struggle trying to find the time outside work to achieve anything creative.
part of is is the intp tendency to keep things inside my own head, where they exist in a more vital, unpolluted form. thinking things up is often more satisfying to me than actually bringing it to life in the real world.
i've put off so many projects/ideas in the past, because forcing myself to sit down and do them seems wrong. and it's hard work.

i mean, hard work isn't fun. if i'm not doing it for fun, it must be to get somewhere (money, employment, attracting a mate, recognition from peers, etc.) but the uncertainty of a payoff again makes me hesitate.
so why do it? for myself? once i have acquired competency in something, i don't have to prove anything to myself. the only reason i have to carry it through is to please others, and if that isn't reciprocated somehow, it can be very disheartening. i'm convinced that no-one understands the work i do. the probability that it will go nowhere and be totally unappreciated kind of diffuses the incentive to waste my free time doing it.
if i make something i love and it falls flat, i might not create anything for months, sometimes years after. i might even drop it altogether, and go play deus ex instead.

all the motivation that's left is putting a psychological buffer between me and mortality, which makes it compulsive, doesn't it? i'm trying to lead my life unfettered, and i find myself controlled.
or i couldn't be overthinking things could i? heavens, that'd be a departure.

anyway, if you have the foggiest what i'm talking about, how do you deal with it..?

 

[snowqueen]

most of the time, it's a huge struggle trying to find the time outside work to achieve anything creative.
part of is is the intp tendency to keep things inside my own head, where they exist in a more vital, unpolluted form. thinking things up is often more satisfying to me than actually bringing it to life in the real world.

I totally agree - I love my ideas when they're in my head and I can examine them from every angle for hours. When I try to bring them outside it often feels like very hard work and unsatisfying because they inevitably lack the richness and are limited by the 'real' world's inadequacies. I think those creative types who are driven to create actually cannot envisage things internally and need to express their ideas in order to experience the satisfaction we feel when we engage with our ideas internally. It would be an interesting question to ask on a mixed MBTI forum.

so why do it? for myself? once i have acquired competency in something, i don't have to prove anything to myself. the only reason i have to carry it through is to please others, and if that isn't reciprocated somehow, it can be very disheartening.

This a classic INTP statement and one which I expect every INTP on here totally understands

i've put off so many projects/ideas in the past, because forcing myself to sit down and do them seems wrong. and it's hard work.

i mean, hard work isn't fun. if i'm not doing it for fun, it must be to get somewhere (money, employment, attracting a mate, recognition from peers, etc.) but the uncertainty of a payoff again makes me hesitate.

I've moved this quote because I wanted to address it after the previous one (in case you wondered). I used to feel this way but actually what I have discovered is that when I realise my ideas (make them real by externalising them in some form through art, craft or writing or the abstract models I create at work) two important things happen. Firstly other people engage with them and sometimes their comments or questions are really interesting and useful and actually push the ideas forward in ways I hadn't previously considered. Approval is of little interest to me, but people engaging with my ideas so they are improved or refined, is. The second is that if I put some distance between myself and my realised object, I very often see it in a new light - and often as if for the first time. Actually I've re-read many of the things I've written and been quite amazed that I wrote them because I think they're much better than I thought at the time of writing. So that's given me more confidence over the years - I worry less about the quality of what I'm producing because I assume it's probably better than I can see in the immediate moment.

i'm convinced that no-one understands the work i do. the probability that it will go nowhere and be totally unappreciated kind of diffuses the incentive to waste my free time doing it.

This is very familiar to me.

if i make something i love and it falls flat, i might not create anything for months, sometimes years after. i might even drop it altogether, and go play deus ex instead.

Yup except with me it's Tomb Raider or the INTP forum

all the motivation that's left is putting a psychological buffer between me and mortality, which makes it compulsive, doesn't it?

hehe - when I hit 50 all of a sudden I became quite ambitious and decided that I wanted to write much more and produce stuff that would last. Combating a lifetime of internalised creativity and general inertia is hard though and so I have gathered a group of people around me who encourage me to produce and who act as critical friends.

One thing I would say is that it is worth working out who your critical friends might be. So if you are looking for approval initially and you are put off by people who question or criticise what you do you might be missing the opportunity to engage with people who could help you develop your ideas. I used to get upset if people didn't 'get' my ideas immediately and withdrew. As I've matured I now understand that often my ideas are not immediately accessible because they are unusual or a new way of looking at something but that doesn't mean that people don't want to understand or can't understand. If people ask questions I assume now that they want to engage, if they critique I consider the merit of the criticism with a more open mind. I have found that some people have been correct in their criticism or that their questions have enabled me to work out better ways to communicate my ideas. So I am less 'precious' about my ideas and a bit more humble in my interactions with others. That has paid off big time at work in particular.

 

[merzbau]

thank you snowqueen, you actually got to the heart of what i was blathering about!

I think those creative types who are driven to create actually cannot envisage things internally and need to express their ideas in order to experience the satisfaction we feel when we engage with our ideas internally. It would be an interesting question to ask on a mixed MBTI forum.

mm that's very true of ISFPs. i think they get a buzz from the inception, and aren't as obsessed with the invention. they find it much easier to live for the moment. to me, creativity has to have some concrete purpose, somewhere down the line.

I used to feel this way but actually what I have discovered is that when I realise my ideas (make them real by externalising them in some form through art, craft or writing or the abstract models I create at work) two important things happen. Firstly other people engage with them and sometimes their comments or questions are really interesting and useful and actually push the ideas forward in ways I hadn't previously considered. Approval is of little interest to me, but people engaging with my ideas so they are improved or refined, is.

you're right, it does play a role in the process, and i guess that's a source of enjoyment, seeing an audience's reaction. but you have to separate yourself from this to some extent, or you risk taking uninformed comments to heart.. people can be abrasive when you're on the fringes.

the answer may be to find a few trusted people who can offer comments, feedback and honest appraisal to encourage and offer a bit of energy and enthusiasm.
collaborations sometimes bear fruit, though they can be difficult logistically, especially when you have to organise free weekends, shunt emails back and forth, move audio gear etc. however, another person's enthusiasm can be a good motivator, if you find someone who has similar tastes and is talented at what they're doing, it's really great.

one thing i have noticed is that my output dramatically increases if i know there will be some method of display or deadline round the corner, eg. a compilation cd, gallery event, a store that distributes zines, etc. if i don't have that, i feel like it will never be finished to my satisfaction, and end up another stone cast into the abyss..

As I've matured I now understand that often my ideas are not immediately accessible because they are unusual or a new way of looking at something but that doesn't mean that people don't want to understand or can't understand. If people ask questions I assume now that they want to engage, if they critique I consider the merit of the criticism with a more open mind.

i'd like people to question me - i'd love that.. but when it comes to art, no-one honestly does, perhaps they assume there's no philosophy, no rationale behind it. or maybe they feel it would offend.

very enlightening.. thanks for sharing your thoughts, i'm always worried that no-one reads serious posts..!



ps. why delete your post, da blob? i thought it was quite good..

 

[RubberDucky451]

once i have acquired competency in something, i don't have to prove anything to myself. the only reason i have to carry it through is to please others, and if that isn't reciprocated somehow, it can be very disheartening. i'm convinced that no-one understands the work i do.

Yes, i feel like this all the time. The results are I'm mediocre at a large amount of things.

i'm trying to lead my life unfettered, and i find myself controlled.

Controlled by the urge to be unique?

Anyways, I didn't think it was really a whinge.

 

[JASSY]

Its such a relief to finally know where i fit in, learning who i am and how to "function". Fe is a huge weakness of mine , like all INTPs . So if their is any fellow INTPs words of wisdom to be shared please by all means feel free to let me know.