INTP, misunderstood?

[Deridaburi]

I have noticed over the years that a large majority of my attempts to explain new ideas related to a topic in discussion result in others not understanding what I'm trying to say. And instead of trying to figure out what I'm saying, they immediately think that I don't understand the topic in discussion. This could quite possibly the result of me not being able to accurately voice my ideas. It is also possible that I am actually dumb and that I don't have the ability to realize that. I can't know for sure from only my perspective. So I guess my question is, do any other INTP's or people in general experience this issue aswell?

 

[mke2686]

all the time

 

[Words]

I'm really curious about the motivation behind these "Are you like me?" threads...

Anyways, I think it's an issue of "subjective understanding" from the so-called iNtroverted tHinking imbued with Intuition. The same way an Ni-dom can perceive things in novel perspectives, a TiNe formulates understandings in different ways.

To me, 1 + 1 = 0, and it makes sense to me. Of course, it's wrong(or is it?). But it's that ability to understand things in different ways that makes it confusing to understand what the person is saying.

People rely on standards when speaking but if they introvert it then the standard gets a bit lost. (But the standard is mere communicative utility anyways.)
------

Personal experience.:

I'm a "hand-raiser" in school but I often subconsciously neglect showing how I've arrived to conclusions to the teachers so I tend spark confusions[which I flee from] and as a result, my ideas remain unconfirmed. I blame it on the idea that Ti builds on itself, the tiring process of extracting from Si and articulating it with Fe, and most of all the absence of an external standard focused mind.

My solution so far: Socratic Method.

By asking questions right from the root of your logic, you can allow others to validate or disprove your "pyramid". This filter, I believe, is absolutely necessary for growth.

 

[Glordag]

I'm really curious about the motivation behind these "Are you like me?" threads...

Anyways, I think it's an issue of "subjective understanding" from the so-called iNtroverted tHinking imbued with Intuition. The same way an Ni-dom can perceive things in novel perspectives, a TiNe formulates understandings in different ways.

To me, 1 + 1 = 0, and it makes sense to me. Of course, it's wrong(or is it?). But it's that ability to understand things in different ways that makes it confusing to understand what the person is saying.

People rely on standards when speaking but if they introvert it then the standard gets a bit lost. (But the standard is mere communicative utility anyways.)
------

Personal experience.:

I'm a "hand-raiser" in school but I often subconsciously neglect showing how I've arrived to conclusions to the teachers so I tend spark confusions[which I flee from] and as a result, my ideas remain unconfirmed. I blame it on the idea that Ti builds on itself, the tiring process of extracting from Si and articulating it with Fe, and most of all the absence of an external standard focused mind.

My solution so far: Socratic Method.

By asking questions right from the root of your logic, you can allow others to validate or disprove your "pyramid". This filter, I believe, is absolutely necessary for growth.

This sounds reasonable enough. I think most INTPs process a lot of incredibly ambiguous and abstract things at a very rapid pace, and then sort of "land" on our ideas/conclusions. Trying to relate the process back to another person is pretty difficult - we have to pause our Ti/Ne and try to utilize Te/Fe/Se, which isn't the easiest thing for us to do.

In the case where we fail to shut off our Ne/Ti and try to talk, a lot of times we say things that are pretty incoherent. In the case that we manage to shut those off but can't accurately tap into Te/Fe/Se we probably come off as "slow" and incapable of communicating an idea.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I have noticed over the years that a large majority of my attempts to explain new ideas related to a topic in discussion result in others not understanding what I'm trying to say. And instead of trying to figure out what I'm saying, they immediately think that I don't understand the topic in discussion. This could quite possibly the result of me not being able to accurately voice my ideas. It is also possible that I am actually dumb and that I don't have the ability to realize that. I can't know for sure from only my perspective. So I guess my question is, do any other INTP's or people in general experience this issue aswell?

Yea, as Words said, we understand things in different ways. Keeping the initial point at the forefront of the conversation is imperative to reach a mutual understanding. Delving too much into your own subjective reasoning doesn't do much for the other person's comprehension if they don't understand the way you do.

 

[SQ_Minion]

This phenomenon is why I have always been bad in literary analysis, as it's taught in the United States. You have to make someone else understand how you came to your conclusion, but the process and the various factors working in your mind are too complex to put on paper. Thus, you sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[The Gopher]

This phenomenon is why I have always been bad in literary analysis, as it's taught in the United States. You have to make someone else understand how you came to your conclusion, but the process and the various factors working in your mind are too complex to put on paper. Thus, you sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

THIS is why I don't like maths I was good, great just this.

 

[Jesse]

I can't explain anything to anyone especially high-concepts. Also literary analysis becomes much easier when you realize it's easier to lie than explain your own complex feelings.

 

[Oster]

I've been thinking of posting a thread about this!
I've had problems with that, always. I can understand others just well, but when I attempt to vocalize my thought, everything goes haywire.

Any ideas on how to learn how to explain things to others?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Any ideas on how to learn how to explain things to others?

Yes. KISS.

Keep It Simple, Stupid.

 

[Abraxas]

It is also possible that I am actually dumb and that I don't have the ability to realize that.

A genius among idiots is the same as an idiot among geniuses. So either way, to others it seems like we have no clue of almost anything. And on the inside of our genius/idiotic minds we're certain of our understanding.

I guess it's because a "normal" thinker goes from A to C through B. Some of us (INTP?) on the other hand go from A to C through B, but also correlate A, B and C with the qualities of X, Y and possibly Z and if there still remains time to be spent in thought we might consider a few calligraphic alternatives.

 

[Glordag]

I can't explain anything to anyone especially high-concepts. Also literary analysis becomes much easier when you realize it's easier to lie than explain your own complex feelings.

I've always done poorly in essays when I try to be extremely serious and explain myself clearly. When I BS I do great. An example:

In high school, we had to prepare essays for practice of a statewide test that every student must take in order to graduate. In the first essay I followed all of the rules and presented what I thought to be a very well-organized and written essay. I got an average score.

The next essay that we had to do, I completely BS'd my way through it. I essentially went into stream-of-consciousness and only made sure that it stayed in the "Intro-Points-Conclusion" format. All I remember of it is talking about life, growing up, the metamorphosis from child to adult, and comparing it to the beauty of a caterpillar changing to a butterfly. My english teacher told me that it was one of the best essays she's ever read, and even told me that I should consider writing professionally.

I couldn't understand it, and I still don't.

 

[dark]

Hum, ok maybe I am not an INTP, this is very reasonable, but if this is true I am more controlled by Ne, since explaining things comes easy, I just stop thinking and allow the Ne to take over, and it comes up with things I could never have thought I could have thought.

But yeah what EyeSeeCold mentions, keeping it simple seems good, but be careful to not be to simple, a little complexity and deeper thought never hurt. My advise is to not think when talking, that is what I have learned to do in class etc. I just start talking and let Ne take over, since Ne/Ti is both INTP and ENTP top two functions we can be very similiar in this, sometimes when alone I get to caught up in Ti and when around others I tend to forget my dominate Ne and start confusing others, but I soon realize this and just stop for a second, and actually stop thinking, which is odd, I say I probably look odd when doing this since I sound like an idiot then I just stop then I start rambling on about the topic in such detail it just gets hard for others to keep up with the story, so I have to slow down my Ne at times, of course I don't remember a thing Ne had just said so my Ti is like WTF just happened. For all of us I would say working Ti and Ne side by side, and practicing this, which I don't know how to do, would help the confusion with others.

 

[Glordag]

Hum, ok maybe I am not an INTP, this is very reasonable, but if this is true I am more controlled by Ne, since explaining things comes easy, I just stop thinking and allow the Ne to take over, and it comes up with things I could never have thought I could have thought.

I don't think that this means you aren't INTP. People are unique, and you might just have an easier time explaining things than others. There could be a number of reasons for that. I also don't think that being controlled by Ne would necessarily lead to speaking clearly.

But yeah what EyeSeeCold mentions, keeping it simple seems good, but be careful to not be to simple, a little complexity and deeper thought never hurt. My advise is to not think when talking, that is what I have learned to do in class etc. I just start talking and let Ne take over, since Ne/Ti is both INTP and ENTP top two functions we can be very similiar in this, sometimes when alone I get to caught up in Ti and when around others I tend to forget my dominate Ne and start confusing others, but I soon realize this and just stop for a second, and actually stop thinking, which is odd, I say I probably look odd when doing this since I sound like an idiot then I just stop then I start rambling on about the topic in such detail it just gets hard for others to keep up with the story, so I have to slow down my Ne at times, of course I don't remember a thing Ne had just said so my Ti is like WTF just happened. For all of us I would say working Ti and Ne side by side, and practicing this, which I don't know how to do, would help the confusion with others.

I kept looking for a period to signal a sentence stop in there, and I couldn't find one . What I'm discovering as I get older is that utilizing and developing Ne is absolutely crucial for me. It helps me be creative, makes me happy, helps me relate to others, aids my problem solving skills, and just generally keeps me in check. I think it's probably the single most important thing to do as an INTP.

 

[Amor Anti]

Ack, yes, I have this problem. It seems to occur with certain people more often than others? I would guess that many of my friends are also variatons of NTs, and they seem more capable of following my logic, even if I know I'm being ridiculously subjective. Then they just offer their own perspective and maybe we meet somewhere in the middle. This is good, because it forces me out of my own mind and makes me realize maybe my logic wasn't so sound. On the other hand, I think my mother, an ESFJ, never knows what the hell I'm talking about (which sometimes makes me extremely frustrated with her because I feel like she doesn't care about anything I care about...despite the irrationality there). But yes. Sometimes in school I'll start explaining things or asking for clarifcation because I thought it was like X, but when I see people looking at me like I'm crazy, I'll just give up halfway through.

This phenomenon is why I have always been bad in literary analysis, as it's taught in the United States. You have to make someone else understand how you came to your conclusion, but the process and the various factors working in your mind are too complex to put on paper. Thus, you sound like an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about.

I have a similar problem. I love literature, but I've come to hate English classes. Most of my annotations in books are about the theme, not about all the little things it took to get there. Especially when asked to analyze tone/diction, I just...bleh.

 

[dark]

ROFL apologies Glordag, didn't realize I had the run on sentence of run on sentences, was probably my Ne taking over, it tends to do that even in verbal conversations.

 

[Deridaburi]

Thanks everyone, all of your replies have helped me to understand this problem and how to correct it.