INTP (male) vs ESTJ (female)

[Goku]

I (an INTP male) have been dating an ESTJ (female) for a couple months and it's been going great. I should qualify that I am 30 and she is 32 so we've had enough 'time' (life experience) to have well developed "F" functions.

There have been threads here discussing the INTP+ESTJ pairing. I've found other sites which say that this is a natural pairing-- opposites attract theory, etc. I have also seen disaster stories.

I have noticed her "thinking out loud" as a main aspect of her personality. She could probably do better by thinking about my emotions before she speaks, however I am mature enough not to get mad at things. For example, I really don't like hearing about previous boyfriends. I understand that they will come up when discussing past experiences-- but limiting the mentions of exes seems rather intuitive to me... however she's not an intuitive so I'll give her a pass on that.

My logical mind is able to quell my immature emotions. This aspect of my personality, emotional control through logic, was only achieved through maturity.

She talks a lot, which is fine by me, because I rarely talk. She loves to hear me talk though.

I have realized that INTP's can enjoy talking. Myself, I need an audience.

The ESTJ talks to empty the brain, it's like a blow-off valve for a turbo. The INTP, on the other hand, talks to entertain. I have no reason to orally verbalize my thoughts out loud. The only reason I would do so is to either help the other person understand something they don't understand, or to entertain them with a story.

It often happens that when it appears that she's stopped listening, like when I'm telling a story and she starts folding her laundry or something, it's like I've lost my audience and I stop talking. She thinks I'm "high maintenance" in this fashion (lol in a funny way), because I require 100% attention or I lose my passion for telling a story.

Whereas, say we're driving, and she's talking, I could totally zone out and just give the obligatory "uh huh, uh huh" every 10-20 seconds so it appears I'm listening, and she'll even mock me, copying my "uh huh's" lol, but she doesn't get butt hurt about my zoning off...

Whereas I'll stop telling a story and be a brat because I don't feel like talking anymore because she's stopped listening.

Anyone else have experiences with this pairing? How is it different with the INTP-female and ESTJ-male pairing?

And, it's worth nothing, that my last girlfriend (I technically have only had 2, current is the 2nd one) have both been ESTJs. This has not been on purpose, like I went out seeking an ESTJ... no not like that. It's just happened.

 

[Pizzabeak]

In the first sentence did you mean to put ESTJ (female)?

 

[Vrecknidj]

My wife (not an E or a J) talks all the time. She talks when no one is listening, she talks when no one is home. She talks when she's alone in the car. For her, it's about her Asperger's more than her type.

I've learned when to listen to what she's saying, and when to ignore her. I ask her to repeat herself if I catch something that makes me realize I want to know what I just missed. We've learned to live with it.

I can go days without saying anything. When I'm alone, I don't talk. I have an INTP son, we can spend hours and hours and hours together and say almost nothing and we're fine with it.

I do think that relationships of the sort you're describing do need healthy boundaries regarding talking and not-talking. It's probably a good thing that you're thinking about it.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Anyone else have experiences with this pairing? How is it different with the INTP-female and ESTJ-male pairing?

(I think you inadvertently mis matched the Typology-Gender in your question above)

Yes. INTP-male + ESTJ-female. Life partnered with an one for some years. Ugh.

My impression from searching out intel on the interweb regarding the general prospect of a successful relationship between the male INTP and/or INTJ and female ESTJ:

its either really great or it totally blows. Usually not much in between.

I'm making it work*. Generally in the latter category but it is what it is. If I come across instances on the interweb wherein the INTP claims the relationship is really great the common denominator seems to be that the given ESTJ is exceptionally far out on the emotionally mature/ self aware spectrum.

It was fine for the first handful of years together and then over time the cutesie-pootsie aura wears off and real life sets in with its relentlessness of bills, work deadlines, life pressures etc. The veneer of romance wears ever thinner as time grinds on and the real inner self -the shadow as Tool eludes to in 46+2- inevitably emerges to stay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKLvYGqaC0

My advice to my INTP son: DO NOT date/ marry the ESTJ. The risk/reward ratio is far too high statistically speaking. Look for a rational female type of the NT sort. They are rare but will (most likely) be worth the extra effort. He will be at an advantage in life because his father is aware of the power of the MBTI (too late to save himself but early enough to benefit his precious spawn).

*probably the trouble is typical for the INTP-ESTJ matchup. Basically I get judged constantly for my non-conformance and my value besmirched in direct proportion to the perceived 'sins' of non-conformity. I say "I'm making it work" on purpose here. As is typicial, there is a nearly complete lack of introspection on the part of the ESTJ which does not make for much room for negotiation/ compromise/ mutual understanding. The great irony is that as I suck it ALL up I know full well that if I didn't...oh yeah, and conversations are really meaningless and boring 99% of the time LOL, in your OP you capture the essence of the need of the INTP to have 100% attention when speaking...while the mere presence of a few well-spaced "uh huh...yeah...go on...tell me more (about nothing important)..."s while pretending to listen to the ESTJ (as the INTP mind is simultaneously exploring the deepest regions of the known/ unknown universe) is sufficient for their needs in 'conversation'.

 

[Goku]

In the first sentence did you mean to put ESTJ (female)?

yes, whoops, fixed, thx.

 

[Goku]

(I think you inadvertently mis matched the Typology-Gender in your question above)

Yes. INTP-male + ESTJ-female. Life partnered with an one for some years. Ugh.

My impression from searching out intel on the interweb regarding the general prospect of a successful relationship between the male INTP and/or INTJ and female ESTJ:

its either really great or it totally blows. Usually not much in between.

I'm making it work*. Generally in the latter category but it is what it is. If I come across instances on the interweb wherein the INTP claims the relationship is really great the common denominator seems to be that the given ESTJ is exceptionally far out on the emotionally mature/ self aware spectrum.

It was fine for the first handful of years together and then over time the cutesie-pootsie aura wears off and real life sets in with its relentlessness of bills, work deadlines, life pressures etc. The veneer of romance wears ever thinner as time grinds on and the real inner self -the shadow as Tool eludes to in 46+2- inevitably emerges to stay:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYKLvYGqaC0

My advice to my INTP son: DO NOT date/ marry the ESTJ. The risk/reward ratio is far too high statistically speaking. Look for a rational female type of the NT sort. They are rare but will (most likely) be worth the extra effort. He will be at an advantage in life because his father is aware of the power of the MBTI (too late to save himself but early enough to benefit his precious spawn).

*probably the trouble is typical for the INTP-ESTJ matchup. Basically I get judged constantly for my non-conformance and my value besmirched in direct proportion to the perceived 'sins' of non-conformity. I say "I'm making it work" on purpose here. As is typicial, there is a nearly complete lack of introspection on the part of the ESTJ which does not make for much room for negotiation/ compromise/ mutual understanding. The great irony is that as I suck it ALL up I know full well that if I didn't...oh yeah, and conversations are really meaningless and boring 99% of the time LOL, in your OP you capture the essence of the need of the INTP to have 100% attention when speaking...while the mere presence of a few well-spaced "uh huh...yeah...go on...tell me more (about nothing important)..."s while pretending to listen to the ESTJ (as the INTP mind is simultaneously exploring the deepest regions of the known/ unknown universe) is sufficient for their needs in 'conversation'.

For the moment, my non-conformity seems to be working FOR me rather than AGAINST me. The whole "you're different" and "I've never met anyone like you" kinda deal. Oh well, I am a gambler, and it is a definitely a high risk proposition, but I do think the reward is well worth it. I don't believe her younger (judgmental) self would have liked me.

I'm rolling with my "feelings" on this one.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

For the moment, my non-conformity seems to be working FOR me rather than AGAINST me. The whole "you're different" and "I've never met anyone like you" kinda deal. Oh well, I am a gambler, and it is a definitely a high risk proposition, but I do think the reward is well worth it. I don't believe her younger (judgmental) self would have liked me.

I'm rolling with my "feelings" on this one.

Sounds like you're putting a lot of thought into it as well. Best of luck

 

[Goku]

Sounds like you're putting a lot of thought into it as well. Best of luck

Lol yes I guess so
But on to more important matters...

Wth do I get this girl for Christmas!?

Freaking out here

My last ESTJ has scarred me... A bad gift = cold shoulder

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Lol yes I guess so
But on to more important matters...

Wth do I get this girl for Christmas!?

Freaking out here

My last ESTJ has scarred me... A bad gift = cold shoulder

LOL you're on your own with that one buddy. Its hard enough for 1 INTP to cover his own arse as far as holidays and gifts and all that annoying crap...

If she is a keeper she won't mind you just asking her for a list. If you request a list of ten things minimum there is still a surprise factor to tickle her embedded ESTJ desire for novelty.

This year I split the difference and got a vacuum (practical) and a custom bracelet (totally frivolous) as gifts.

 

[Goku]

LOL you're on your own with that one buddy. Its hard enough for 1 INTP to cover his own arse as far as holidays and gifts and all that annoying crap...

If she is a keeper she won't mind you just asking her for a list. If you request a list of ten things minimum there is still a surprise factor to tickle her embedded ESTJ desire for novelty.

This year I split the difference and got a vacuum (practical) and a custom bracelet (totally frivolous) as gifts.

Ooh the list idea sounds so great hahaha
Omg vacuum!? Haha u two must have been together for a while

I thought of an "awesome" gift but it sounds too risky...
She's been looking for a gym, so I was going to buy her a prepaid 2 yr membership to 24hr fitness (that's actually the one she wants, the month-to-month is just a bit pricey)

Lol, but the obvious fallout from that gift is predictable
It would require an extremely confident (which she is) girl to not assume the worst (that I think she's fat, lol)
She's actually got an amazing body, but all girls think they're fat

And it's something she both wants and needs

However I just don't think I'd get the brownie points for it

So I opted against that one

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Ooh the list idea sounds so great hahaha
Omg vacuum!? Haha u two must have been together for a while

I thought of an "awesome" gift but it sounds too risky...
She's been looking for a gym, so I was going to buy her a prepaid 2 yr membership to 24hr fitness (that's actually the one she wants, the month-to-month is just a bit pricey)

Lol, but the obvious fallout from that gift is predictable
It would require an extremely confident (which she is) girl to not assume the worst (that I think she's fat, lol)
She's actually got an amazing body, but all girls think they're fat*

And it's something she both wants and needs

However I just don't think I'd get the brownie points for it

So I opted against that one

If she doesn't get offended she's that much more of a keeper? (rhetorical question)

*not really directing this at you or this thread, just happened upon the following insightful commentary last week. Skip to 1:30:30 - 1:36:20 for the stark, simple truth about the basic male-female relationship LOL (solves the mystery of the copious numbers of pillows on the bed etc)...also explains why if a woman is not self aware its necessary to deal with her on the basic level of biology -and definitely not philosophy. Wish I had known this intel a couple of decades ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF1WoZKdA1c&feature=c4-overview&list=UUC3L8QaxqEGUiBC252GHy3w