INTP in Army Infantry

[jemijohn]

Hey gang,

I am a 20 year old INTP. I joined the Army National Guard as an Infantryman when I was 17. I signed a six year contract, which ends in three years. At the time I thought that the Army would be great for me, because I love adventure, action and the like. My ASVAB score qualified me for any MOS in the military, but as a naive teenager I thought I wanted to kick ass and take names.

After two years of college, maturation, and self-reflection, I could not be more certain that I am in the completely wrong career. I currently study philosophy and political science in college, and let's just say I do not have the general mentality seen in combat arms. I try to do my best to be respectful and stay in good shape, but the other soldiers and NCO's see me as an "individual" who lacks common sense. I'd type most of these guys as ESTJ's, but I think there are a few other NT's who I can relate with.

I am now looking at a probable deployment in February, and I feel like my brain is going to rot if I spend a year in that environment. It's so tough to have a good conversation, so I'm stuck using observational humor and sarcasm when talking to the other soldiers.

Has anyone else out there had a similar experience? If so, please give me some tips on dealing with being an INTP in combat arms...believe me, it's not easy.

Thanks for reading my little rant guys.

 

[Jordan~]

Ohh dear. I think there's actually a thread here about the worst possible careers for INTPs and I said military. There's no way you can get out, or you just don't want to get out? I don't know what to suggest, being in the army is sort of my worst nightmare (and was when I tested INTP, too) - get promoted to officer as quickly as possible is all I can think of, but I'm guessing that's not easy. Is there any way to transfer to the human terrain team? I don't like what they do but it sounds like a better environment for an INTP to work in, if you're qualified for it.

 

[The Gopher]

I was going to say you could get a psych-discharge. But that might restrict you in otherways.

 

[Jordan~]

If being gay in the army wasn't allowed now you could just come out. Dammit!

 

[dala]

I would just like to (unhelpfully) say, you poor bastard.

Get out if you can, even if you take a hit or two to do it. Life is too short to waste doing things that you're not suited for.

 

[Jordan~]

Especially if the thing you're not suited for involves being shot.

 

[jemijohn]

haha sadly being gay doesn't disqualify anymore. They are getting rid of Don't Ask Don't tell and they keep briefing us on respecting gay soldiers.

I don't think I want to get a psych discharge. That would definitely screw me over at some point.

I was wanting to transfer to intel. I've taken two semester of Arabic in college, so they could put that to good use. They won't let me change it though because of this upcoming deployment.

Guess I'm stuck being cannon fodder

 

[jemijohn]

Ohh dear. I think there's actually a thread here about the worst possible careers for INTPs and I said military. There's no way you can get out, or you just don't want to get out? I don't know what to suggest, being in the army is sort of my worst nightmare (and was when I tested INTP, too) - get promoted to officer as quickly as possible is all I can think of, but I'm guessing that's not easy. Is there any way to transfer to the human terrain team? I don't like what they do but it sounds like a better environment for an INTP to work in, if you're qualified for it.

I was actually on the path to becoming an officer. I was in the ROTC program until a few months ago. I decided not to go that path, because I would have to extend my contract to either 2017 or 2019. No way in Hell

So as soon as I dropped ROTC, I went back to my line unit. I thought I'd be safe for deployment since my brigade wasn't planning to mobliize.

During the first formation of my first drill back in May I got called out along with 20 other guys from my company. They told us that they were switching us to a brigade that should be mobilizing in February...just my luck

 

[Jordan~]

The hypocrisy of authority, huh? "Gays aren't fit to fight in the military. Oh, what's that? Sorry, I mean you must respect your gay brothers in arms."

 

[jemijohn]

The hypocrisy of authority, huh? "Gays aren't fit to fight in the military. Oh, what's that? Sorry, I mean you must respect your gay brothers in arms."

I know, right? Believe me, I feel safer with gays than bigots

 

[Dimensional Transition]

You should contact SpaceYeti, he just got deployed and is another INTP in the military. I always thought he kind of liked it there. Maybe he can help you.

Personally, I think military would be hell for me too, so, good luck man...

 

[The Gopher]

I am going to be entirly unhelpfull but no less enthusiastic again. I suppose shooting your team mates wouldn't be helpfull. Then again in australia that's almost advised... You could request to be discharged and then when they refuse leave the building and fire a few shots into the air to let them know you don't want to be there.


Holding someone at gun point is kinda out of the question.... You know I almost want to be in the army to see the most crazy way I can find to get out. You can say that your leaving and just walk out then live as a fugitive. Say you have found a peace only religion and will rather die than fight.

not one of these will work btw....

But I don't think it's so much a problem of not getting out just a problem with getting out without being completely screwed.

 

[Vecho]

Can I just say, you idiot!! What kind of NT joins an army? We are not for someone to shoot at, we are they guys that develop new equipment but not the ones that use it... For what must a person think that he would conclude that military is for him? How must a person think that he'd conclude to join the military? A dumb one of course. So the question is, how did you come to the conclusion to join military?

 

[Jordan~]

What kind of NP joins the army? :P Disciplinary structures? Following orders without question? Ooh, sign me up.

Like he said, he wanted to see the world and kick ass. Or see war-torn Afghanistan and get shot at for no obvious reason in a war no one who makes decisions about it properly understands.

 

[EditorOne]

"I was actually on the path to becoming an officer. I was in the ROTC program until a few months ago. I decided not to go that path, because I would have to extend my contract to either 2017 or 2019. No way in Hell"

Well, reexamine that. It might not necessarily be the case, at least not the way you think. Being an officer is a whole different thing from being in the ranks. I have a friend who was in the ROTC track in college, abandoned it, then went back to it a few years ago when he found his civilian job as a school teacher an absolute bore. He did his basic with the 10th Mountain Division and was deployed for? 16 months? (longer than he was supposed to be) with the 10th Mountain Division, lieutenant in charge of a section of light guns that had nightly fire missions. He was in a remote outpost, in charge of himself and his own section of guns. When it was over he was promoted to captain and was permitted to transfer over to the Pennsylvania National Guard. He'd pretty much had enough (when the rations ran short and he was cooking goat on metal sheeting over a wood fire at the end he pretty much thought there were better ways to go camping). However, he got to do this: As part of the Guard, the brass wanted to make him a line officer of a fighting infantry company. He told them that if it was all the same, he'd prefer a staff job and they should give that post to some gung-ho young fellow who wanted to get his ticket punched and advance in the military. And that's what happened. And after that, when it was time for the enlistment to run out, they offered to promote him to major, in a staff job, if he'd re-up, because they thought his intelligence and energy were extremely useful. The new enlistment also takes him to the point that he gets, with time in combat and everything else, full benefits when it runs out - as a major. Big improvement over what the guys carring the rifles get.
You might not need to get out. You might just need to get out from under. You've been in long enough to see how it works; now make it work for you. Additionally, just from what you've done so far, you've earned benefits that you could lose if you take a less than acceptable exit route. VA benefits may seem vague when you are young and healthy; think ahead 30 years.
Think before you do anything. It's your strong suit.

 

[jemijohn]

Can I just say, you idiot!! What kind of NT joins an army? We are not for someone to shoot at, we are they guys that develop new equipment but not the ones that use it... For what must a person think that he would conclude that military is for him? How must a person think that he'd conclude to join the military? A dumb one of course. So the question is, how did you come to the conclusion to join military?

Well...Like I said, I was a youngin when I joined. It was long before I was introduced to MBTI and Jung, so I figured I'd follow in the footsteps of my dad (who is a ESTJ and spent 13 years in the Army). So maybe I was an idiot, or maybe I was just young, naive, and unaware of myself.

Now I'm very very very much aware of the fact that I am in a career that brings out my weak INTP traits (lacking common sense, inferior extroverted feeling, poor organizational skills, rebelliousness...) and hides my strong traits (creativity, writing, analysis, etc.).

 

[jemijohn]

"I was actually on the path to becoming an officer. I was in the ROTC program until a few months ago. I decided not to go that path, because I would have to extend my contract to either 2017 or 2019. No way in Hell"

Well, reexamine that. It might not necessarily be the case, at least not the way you think. Being an officer is a whole different thing from being in the ranks. I have a friend who was in the ROTC track in college, abandoned it, then went back to it a few years ago when he found his civilian job as a school teacher an absolute bore. He did his basic with the 10th Mountain Division and was deployed for? 16 months? (longer than he was supposed to be) with the 10th Mountain Division, lieutenant in charge of a section of light guns that had nightly fire missions. He was in a remote outpost, in charge of himself and his own section of guns. When it was over he was promoted to captain and was permitted to transfer over to the Pennsylvania National Guard. He'd pretty much had enough (when the rations ran short and he was cooking goat on metal sheeting over a wood fire at the end he pretty much thought there were better ways to go camping). However, he got to do this: As part of the Guard, the brass wanted to make him a line officer of a fighting infantry company. He told them that if it was all the same, he'd prefer a staff job and they should give that post to some gung-ho young fellow who wanted to get his ticket punched and advance in the military. And that's what happened. And after that, when it was time for the enlistment to run out, they offered to promote him to major, in a staff job, if he'd re-up, because they thought his intelligence and energy were extremely useful. The new enlistment also takes him to the point that he gets, with time in combat and everything else, full benefits when it runs out - as a major. Big improvement over what the guys carring the rifles get.
You might not need to get out. You might just need to get out from under. You've been in long enough to see how it works; now make it work for you. Additionally, just from what you've done so far, you've earned benefits that you could lose if you take a less than acceptable exit route. VA benefits may seem vague when you are young and healthy; think ahead 30 years.
Think before you do anything. It's your strong suit.

I appreciate this post. I'm sure however I'm finishing my remaining three years, getting out, and never looking back. I do want my honorable discharge. I'm not crazy and I'm not a coward, so I'm not going to do anything stupid for a discharge. It's simply not the place for me; I know it and my superiors know it. A SGT asked me the other day, "What in the hell are you doing in the Army?"...Haha. The Army is just a very practical environment, and I tend to be a conceptual person.
Was your officer friend an INTP or NT? just wondering...

 

[lord methous]

I think and if you look back at NT's like especially the ENTJ can make good commanders. Just they don't make good cannon fodder. Though INTP's do not like leading or being led. So for us were not good at being cannon fodder or officers. Just my observed thinking though I have no real experience with this.

 

[Vecho]

Well...Like I said, I was a youngin when I joined. It was long before I was introduced to MBTI and Jung, so I figured I'd follow in the footsteps of my dad (who is a ESTJ and spent 13 years in the Army). So maybe I was an idiot, or maybe I was just young, naive, and unaware of myself.

Now I'm very very very much aware of the fact that I am in a career that brings out my weak INTP traits (lacking common sense, inferior extroverted feeling, poor organizational skills, rebelliousness...) and hides my strong traits (creativity, writing, analysis, etc.).

Apart from the fact that military should consist of idiots who don't care that their profession is killing other people, military promotes force over reason and destruction over creation. Military isn't a place neither for me nether for you nor for the guy posting before me.
Have fun living in such environment for the 3 years ^_^

 

[jemijohn]

Apart from the fact that military should consist of idiots who don't care that their profession is killing other people, military promotes force over reason and destruction over creation. Military isn't a place neither for me nether for you nor for the guy posting before me.
Have fun living in such environment for the 3 years ^_^

You have told me nothing I am not already aware of. I was asking for helpful advice, not sarcasm and cynicism. I hope that's reasonable enough for you...

 

[Jordan~]

I appreciate this post. I'm sure however I'm finishing my remaining three years, getting out, and never looking back. I do want my honorable discharge. I'm not crazy and I'm not a coward, so I'm not going to do anything stupid for a discharge. It's simply not the place for me; I know it and my superiors know it. A SGT asked me the other day, "What in the hell are you doing in the Army?"...Haha. The Army is just a very practical environment, and I tend to be a conceptual person.
Was your officer friend an INTP or NT? just wondering...

I take it that the army's not the kind of place where when a sergeant asks you what the hell you're doing there, you can say, "I don't know, can I please go home now?" :P
I think the biggest problem is the combination of N and P, not N and T. Feeling types really aren't suited to that sort of thing unless they're majorly committed to it on a personal or ideological level. N and P together breed distrust of or contempt for authority, disorderliness, reluctance to obey, strong will, etc.; the sorts of things you don't want in someone who's expected to do as they're told without questioning it. Like it's infuriating that seemingly everyone involved knows that you're not suited to it, including those in charge, yet no one can twist the rules to get you out of it.
I'd be careful about thinking about it in terms of cowardice. It could be cowardly to bail out of something you've started, or it could be cowardly to stick around although you're no good at it for fear of the alternative. From my perspective, the worse cowardice is the latter. Meeting two people in a country where there's conscription, I'd consider the one who dodged the draft by flouting the rules despite the personal risk more courageous than the one who complied and did it anyway; the former has principles and won't let coercion get in the way of them.
The way the word is used most often is to manipulate people into doing something they don't want to do; at its core it means doing something you don't want to do because it's the right thing to do. Given where you're likely to be sent and what you're likely to be told to do, is sticking around even though you don't want to really the right thing to do? You're probably surrounded by SJs at the moment, but you can't get sucked into their way of thinking, where protocol, tradition and following the rules are 'right'.

 

[Roni]

*awkwardly knuckles your shoulder*
My son is there now. Before he left I closed my fist on his soul and told him I'd look after it until he gets back. I don't know if that makes any sense to you. It made sense to us.
Our contact is necessarily limited. I know he finds little outlets for his individuality. I know he gives cheek to his COs whenever he can get away with it. I know he has a 'zone' to protect himself. I also know something has broken in him but he can't tell me.
um.. that's all I can share here.
PM me if you want.


<snip the bit that so enraged Vecho> and set up a new thread.
I'm so sorry about that. I can be really dumb about some things.

 

[Vecho]

Don't spit on.... I'm not a pacifist. I enjoy war as much as any military leader but war is a competition and why do we compete with our selves? I'd support a war against another non humans if they threaten our existence but there's nothing threatening now. We are humans, we live on the same planet, this isn't something that when you are bored of you can just exit the room. We will live on this planet until our race goes extinct and I'd like it if we wouldn't end ourselves.
I'm not an activist, the biggest activity I've done is vandalism. I'd rather status quo than war. If we are living in a society so live for the society. If we live in a society then destroy the personal ambition and seek the ambition of society. A society would understand what is equality. But others want us to live for their society and I do not, in any way, support that. You said it, we must survive, why should I survive while fulfilling objectives dictated not by nature but by man himself.
Spit on the soldiers and piss on those who make war a necessity.

 

[Roni]

Not here man. It's not jemijohn's problem.

I've replied to you here.