INTP Identity Loss

[Budthestud]

I joined the military 3 and a half years ago and It's not an INTP friendly environment. I often get challenged on why I don't go out or play with the other kids. One person felt the need to repeated tell me that "It's bad to be an introvert. Why would you want to be an introvert.". People often do "attacks" on me to try to break me out of my shell. I can say that this just makes me hate the s*** them.

Mostly things were at a barely tolerable level until I got to my present command. My "boss"... I don't quite have an accurate description of how his mind works thought up yet, but I will tell you my observations and perhaps you will feel my frustation.

The very first time I was put on bad terms with him was one of the first days I got here. I didn't have a car yet so I would get a ride from a co-worker. That morning, however, I had forgotten my co-worker had to be somewhere else. I realized that in the morning and so I called the next guy above him. He said it was no problem because The barracks on the way to work, and we would both be there by 0630 which is normal showtime. At 0630 I got a text saying he had car troubles and I needed to get to work some other way. Since Work doesn't actually start until 0700 I started walking briskly and got through the door at 0648 which plenty of time to get prepared for work, but when I got there my boss was waiting for me. "Is there any reason why I should be here before you?" I thought maybe he didn't know what happened, and out of dramatic irony gave a smile and was about to tell him what happened, but instead he yelled at length about how I knew I needed to have a different ride that morning. And then he told me that he drove past me and seen how "lackadaisical" I was and didn't even bother to pick me up. later on I recieved a talking to from my immediate superior about how the "boss" didn't like how I reacted.

I think somehow he likes to punish people. Logically if you were in charge of people you would try to stop potential problems before they start, but he will not give you any guidance at all on purpose and then punish you when you don't get his intended result. Example: I asked him how we are supposed to turn some used gear over. He responded "Oh we'll just call some people and they'll take care of it.". I kept polling him over and over in different ways of how we would do it over a couple days and he kept giving me these same generic answers. So I call around to other people and finally I get 2 numbers I can call relating to our stuff. I inform the boss of this and he retorts in a know it all way of exactly which people we will call and what their number is in detail.... What the F***! It's like he was trying to prove something to me.

There are numerous other accounts. I swear I am about to go psychopathic on this guy. For a week straight I had ideations of how I was going to splash gasoline on his face, set him on fire, and beat him with a big metal object until he ceased to move. It's so bad I can't even think any more. When I get home I just throw s*** around and break things. I don't know who I am anymore, and I don't know if I will ever be the same.

 

[Roni]

nawww *virtual hugs*

I think if there's still enough 'you' left after 3.5yrs to be having such insubordinate ideas your 'you' is still safe somewhere, even if it doesn't seem much like you right now.

Do you feel better for writing this? Maybe keeping a journal or writing fiction could be a good way for you to hold on to your individuality.
How much longer do you have to serve?

 

[Jennywocky]

It's hard to tell whether he's just a plain old SOB or whether he thinks he is motivating you by making your life hell. Some people operate in the latter way, and the military is notorious for the latter... although at the same time, just as the church can become a refuge for those who want to abuse its protection and authority, so can the military become a refuge for the sadists of the world.

In any case, obviously it's not having the intended impact.

Does your command change with any regularity, or can you request a transfer? (Sorry if that last question is naive on my part, I don't know how the military works.) You should be commended on making it this far; there is so much structure in the military, I'm not sure how an INTP would deal

 

[shoeless]

here's the thing about the military. i grew up in a military family, so i have a pretty decent idea of how it works (without having worked there -- just from what i observe from my dad). the military is fundamentally horrible at organizing things. i don't know why. everyone is frustrated because everything is just an endless stream of misinformation. they put emphasis on uniformity because that's the entire point -- they don't want individuals in the military, they want people do just do their shit and shut up. point blank.

you have to have some working extraversion to be in the military. it can be completely fake, that's fine. but since respect for authority is so emphasized, you are expected to just lie down for somebody who is ranked above you (and, in the reverse, you basically get to trample the people who are below you if you want). that's why your boss is such a dick. he spent so much time getting to his rank and having people treat him like shit that now it's time for him to treat other people like shit. it's sort of like in the old days of world of warcraft, if you played on a PvP server -- once you get high enough level to just run around and kill noobs, you do it, because you had to spend so much time being the noob getting killed that it's the only way to make that time worth it.

again, that's just my understanding of how the system works, and it's also the reason why i am never ever ever going into the military. if i were you i'd get out once your four years or whatever are done and find a different career path. if you're not happy there now, you never will be. i'm sorry, that's just the way it is.

edit/ also, which branch did you join? if it's the army or the marines, then, well, i'm so, so sorry. they're the biggest assholes by far. again, i don't know why, but that's just what i've observed after living so many many many years on military bases.

 

[intpz]

Actually I felt your frustration (which, by the way, was caused by you, unless the military can't be avoided in your country) before I even got into reading about your new supervisor. I hate military. I could never join it. 4 years ago, military couldn't be avoided in my country as well. I was already planning on how I will avoid it illegally, pay a doctor or other stuff like that... I may have even be thinking about saving $700 (I used to get around $5-10 a month) for a doctor to be ineligible for the army! It's funny I guess, but I couldn't be a... good soldier in the military. Military is all about being ordered around, or after quite some years, ordering others around. Mostly in physical exercises. And as you mentioned, people like your current supervisor join the military and go up the ranks because they are fit very well for the job according to the militaristic standards.

Just a question - what happens if you do something "against the rules?" For example, tell your supervisor "fuck you!" or something along those lines?

 

[Cognisant]

This guy, as your superior he's in a management role right?
If he is, if he is directly responsible for getting you to do your shit, you can work it.

Managers are fairly simple creatures, indeed they want simplicity, and that's how you work them, when a manager is doing what you want them to you make life easy for them, you take the initiative and manage yourself, start doing stuff before they can tell you to do it, manager's love this because it makes their life incredibly simple, however if a manager is not doing what you want them to you make life hard for them, ask lots of questions, need everything to be explained in detail and every other thing to be repeated, forget things, make mistakes, just be generally incompetent.

A manager's role, be they any sort of manager, is to manipulate you into being competent for their own sake, but you control that variable, so if you're clever you can let them think they're manipulating you when in fact you're the one manipulating them into doing what you want.

But remember you have to use the carrot before the stick, give him something to lose worth keeping, then take it away when he doesn't cooperate, it's like training a dog

 

[ObliviousGenius]

Meh, I've heard all these stories and intimidation tactics by instructors. I'm set to leave for Air Force Basic Training on August 7th. I've already conditioned myself to become a mindless zombie who lives to only obey orders.

I remember in High School my Basketball coach was a drill sergeant-type coach. It's all just an overly dramatic facade used to intimidate. Just play the game with them and try not to stand out much.

 

[Beholder]

It's all just an overly dramatic facade used to intimidate. Just play the game with them and try not to stand out much.

I think he's a bit past that point (basic training).

I recently finished three years in the military, (not the same military, but nearly all of our weapons and supplies come from yours not that it's really relevant, but whatever) so I have a bit of experience dealing with all sorts of superiors, and the best advice I can give you is simply this: A blank look and a shrug. It works miracles. Instead of getting frustrated over this kind of stuff, just shrug it off. You don't have to care! That's the only way to keep your (relative) sanity in a place as dumb as the army. I put a lot of time and effort into keeping on my superiors good side, until I realized that it just doesn't matter. I spent the last year of my service pretending to be a retard just so people wouldn't give me any responsibilities, and I've got to say, it was a pleasure
So basically my advice is this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8

 

[Budthestud]

nawww *virtual hugs*

I think if there's still enough 'you' left after 3.5yrs to be having such insubordinate ideas your 'you' is still safe somewhere, even if it doesn't seem much like you right now.

Do you feel better for writing this? Maybe keeping a journal or writing fiction could be a good way for you to hold on to your individuality.
How much longer do you have to serve?

Thanks. I do feel better after having wrote this. And I do have a journal, but the entries are weeks and months apart. I find it difficult to write things because I just don't want to look at it. It disgusts me. I think I made the subconscious decision awhile ago not to write anything else in it.

My contract is up in December and my boss is leaving in like a month Hopefully.

Just a question - what happens if you do something "against the rules?" For example, tell your supervisor "fuck you!" or something along those lines?

My boss would ensure that I received the maximum Non-Judicial Punishment. Probably loss of rank. He threatened me with a "Competency Review Board" before.

 

[intpz]

My boss would ensure that I received the maximum Non-Judicial Punishment. Probably loss of rank. He threatened me with a "Competency Review Board" before.

Okay, say you lose a rank. What if you continue to "cause trouble?"

And what exactly is that board, I think it would be objective, am I wrong?

 

[Budthestud]

Okay, say you lose a rank. What if you continue to "cause trouble?"

And what exactly is that board, I think it would be objective, am I wrong?

I would go to a court martial and be dishonorably discharged. I know there is a whole slew of other stuff that i know little about, but believe me the Marine Corps will get theirs.

 

[intpz]

I would go to a court martial and be dishonorably discharged. I know there is a whole slew of other stuff that i know little about, but believe me the Marine Corps will get theirs.

Interesting. I don't think I could do it. I hate pretending too much, and I hate illogicalities. I would get pissed off too much. I'd hate hating my life and not being able to do anything about it. Can't even complain or express my own opinion...

 

[WormSine]

Good day to all. First time reader; first time poster.
STORY BEHIND THE POST:
I’m a 39 year old married father of 6 kids (3 boys, 3 girls) I am an INTP and my wife is an INTJ and the kids are (assorted (other) personalities). I have an issue that I would like to get some input on and hoping others of my type can help me with. I apologize if my post is rather large and my typing is off (or will be anyway).
Roughly about 10 years ago, life was pretty good, my wife and I had really good jobs and the family as a whole was all doing well. In 2005 I somehow contracted a viral heart infection and at the same time my wife was pregnant with our 6th child. The doctors ran me through all the tests, but kept me off work for a little over 18 months. By month 16, my insurance ran out and my boss came directly to my house to lay me off (oh how nice of him). My wife about 6 months into the pregnancy ended up having to have gale bladder surgery… (Which in itself is not a big deal, but being pregnant on top of having to have gall bladder surgery, was a very big deal.) Anyway; Long story short … you can guess where this is going right?

Through this process, we became financially and totally strapped. Utilities were getting shut off and then of course we lost our house. The medical issues just overwhelmed us and we were having to pay out of pocket by the end of it.
We eventually got some help with it all (no thanks to family). A few close friends put us up for the night and made a few phone calls and got us signed up with some type of state program and got us into a small apartment that same night. The next morning one of the state employees sat down with us and talk to us about the program and what they did and got us to sign up for some kind of emergency housing list. Needless to say this was very helpful; however the road to recovery was agonizing. After about a year on this program, all of a sudden, we had to take parenting class, money management classes, Conflict mediation classes and get family counseling and the list is literally +15 other things. I can tell you without any reservations that NONE of these classes helped me, mostly because they dealt with “Feelings” and I so despise them. Granted, I did get to better understand and work on my weak points of an INTP, but if I ever have to hear “how do you feel about that” or “remember to say “I” when talking about your feelings”, I WILL SHOOT SOMEONE.

Here we are almost 10 years to the day. We successfully completed the program and we were finally able to buy our house back and everything is slowly coming back into place. (still amazes me how quick one can lose something and the amount of time and energy it takes to get it back)

THE PROBLEM:
My heart infection has been dealt with and I am glad to say I am once again as healthy as a horse, my wife and children are in good health and we both are working again.

5 years on that program, I had to really work on something I didn’t want too. “Feelings” and learn the behaviors of other personality types and basic society behaviors. Don’t get me wrong as much as I hated it, I think it was a good learning experience and I “had” to work on my weaker skill set as far as an INTP goes. I still hate it with a passion, but a good experience none the less. Be that as it may, as of late; I can’t seem to get back into “ME”. I feel out of sorts, out of place and just simply put… NOT me anymore.

5 years of all the touchy feeling “feelings” crap and dealing with things that I really had no time to analyze or think logically on or any real time to do anything with, but just “deal with” at that time.

*paused for some coffee and think for a second*

I will always be an INTP, or has this situation(s) of the past forced me to temporarily become another type of personality, or am I now considered an “advanced INTP”

I am really struggling with getting back into projects, which I once enjoyed. I find that I have become completely introverted to the point of a “hermit”. I won’t even go out to check the mail let alone pick up the phone anymore. I generally am starting to hate people in all aspects (current company excluded) I get extremely irritable to just about anything right now. Kids breath wrong, I’m like “quiet, I am working here” kind of thing. New and old friends find me to be more aggressive and intimidating then I used to be. My INTJ personality understands me and the issues of late, but her J doesn’t work with my P if that makes sense right now. I have asked friends and some family for ideas and thoughts on the matter and all I get is “just deal with it”. So after a few months of thinking and more thinking and even more thinking… here I am. I figure at this point, maybe asking other INTP’s their thoughts on this matter to maybe jump start “me” again may be my best of options at this point. Am I over analyzing this, or am I just showing more “weak areas” of an INTP because I can’t be myself or do you think the past experience, either good or bad has just left a sour note. Or is this simply my INTP breaking out and unknowingly trying to get back to it’s roots sort of speak. I’ll welcome any and all thoughts on this atm.

Side note: any idea including maybe taking baby steps again to get back to some sort of “SELF” would be helpful as well.​

~Thanks to all

 

[EditorOne]

One of the problems with the military we haven't talked about here very much was skirted by Shoeless and some others: The need for conformity. The military system, especially for enlisted, really doesn't want to hear about individuality or personality types. Whatever your personality type, their goal is to beat it to hell out of you and remake you as whatever their specs call for in a human being. That's the whole point of boot camp, to remake recruits into "army issue" capable of doing, thinking and feeling things the Army (Marine) way.

If you demonstrate any personality other than the one the military issued to you, it could be trouble, as in the OP's case.

As for the CO, a prick is a prick is a prick. They are not exclusive to the military. Some people just aren't meant to wield authority, they do it badly and to no apparent legitimate purpose.

 

[Thoughtful]

Well, here is how I suggest dealing with it:
A: Find a person willing to listen to you vent, who won't then turn around and tell your superiors.
B: Find an acceptable way to break things. No really. Shotgun clays, chopping wood, violent video games, whatever works. You break things now because it's a way to release the frustration on something, it's a natural way of dealing with stress. don't fight it, just find a better venue for it.
C: Remind yourself that military life is retarded, (In service myself, can't wait till my enlistment is up), don't try to figure out your superiors, if they act like kids, just learn to interact with them as little as possible. give yes/no answers to everything possible, try to phrase things in yes/no questions. Keep it simple.
D: Try to work with Intel guys if you can, they have pricks sure, but they seem somewhat better to me, plus a lot are introverts.

 

[Budthestud]

Thanks to ALL comments. reading over this thread helps me get through one day at a time.