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INTP Flaws

Eclectic_K

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I'm sorry to say this on the INTP forum but INTPs are not perfect. Clearly. So what are some of your thoughts about INTP flaws?
What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to?
What are some typical flaws INTPs tend to share?
What causes these habits or flaws (and I really mean flaws not just endearing quirks)? Misplaced function priorities?
How can INTPs optimize their functions?
What is the ideal INTP role?
 

Nezumi

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So what are some of your thoughts about INTP flaws?


For me personally,
My friends can find me taxing, long winded and self-centered. I truly don't mean to be. I just have so much I want to explain. They feel that I debate everything, but this is just how I learn things. I pick things apart and try to make it better. But they find this unwelcome and too logical/illogical (depending on the friend).

What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to?
Procrastination, I tend to start a lot of things but never quite finish any >.> Everything just looks so shiny and I can't keep focused on one interest for long.

Staring too. I just want to study people....but that's not social norm.

What is the ideal INTP role?
To be handed an idea and be told to multiply to into many ideas. To play with it, fix it, and stretch to it's limits and hand all that back to a more practical person to apply.

Sorry, couldn't do all of them
 

Eclectic_K

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Hahaha no worries, Thanks. I have similar thoughts on the matter. Procrastination is a big one. I've become lazy when talking to people because I realize they don't listen to my similarly long winded explanations of things. It's a bit frustrating.
 

Nezaros

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Often disregarding societal norms, general social ineptitude, perceived arrogance, relatively poor at processing emotions (of themselves or others), slow to make decisions... INTP's tend to think of themselves as perfect within their own minds (and arguably we are), but outside that bubble lie all sorts of problems. When it comes to interacting with our environment, we're far from perfect.
 

Rikki Riziati

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Personally, my flaws include a number of different things. At my young age, I find that being withdrawn and critical of others are my largest hurdles. These two flaws alone make having a steady relationship seem nearly impossible. The other person never seems to be up to par with my standards. As Nezaros said, we do hold a very high opinion of ourselves.
 

Nezaros

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I am definitely extremely critical of others, though I've learned that everybody has their flaws as well as their strengths, and if you don't care for either they're just another person you can choose to interact with or ignore as you wish. The world is a lonely place when you leave all the poor inadequate souls behind. The same applies to relationships; you just have to take them as they are until you can either find someone better, or decide you don't want one anymore.

But if anyone's got any advice for the whole withdrawn thing I'd be happy to hear it.
 

Amagi82

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I'm sorry to say this on the INTP forum but INTPs are not perfect. Clearly. So what are some of your thoughts about INTP flaws?
What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to?
What are some typical flaws INTPs tend to share?
What causes these habits or flaws (and I really mean flaws not just endearing quirks)? Misplaced function priorities?
How can INTPs optimize their functions?
What is the ideal INTP role?

Flaws: Inability to function in current society. I'm so far beyond the horrid, primitive society we have now, at least in my mind, that the thought of actually participating in the world that exists currently is repugnant. This makes it really difficult to hold down a job without infringing upon my sanity.

Other flaws: Difficulty interacting socially with dumb people. After years of study and practice, I can interact with people and sound completely normal, but interacting with dumb people is highly frustrating, and since INTPs are almost by definition extremely intelligent, the vast majority of the world is dumb. Anyone under about a 120 IQ is just painful to listen to much of the time.

Bad Habits: Laziness and procrastination: So much interests me, but so little holds that interest. I have very little patience for slow people and things. Scheduling and time commitments are a bad joke to many of us.

Ideal role: Social engineer. The person put in charge to design our entire civilization from the ground up, whilst having no actual communication required with the masses.
 

LoveofINTP

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I'm sorry to say this on the INTP forum but INTPs are not perfect. Clearly. So what are some of your thoughts about INTP flaws?
I think every personality type has flaws. INTPs in particular tend to be distrated largely because they are almost constantly in their heads. They are also likely to have contempt for strict adherents of social norms preferring those who step out of the box and show original way of thinking.
I believe that INTP should show more tolerance for social norms because too much originality can be a problem.
What is the ideal INTP role?
Picking out logical inconsistences in different everyday settings and correcting these inconsistences.
 

Etheri

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Picking out logical inconsistences in different everyday settings and correcting these inconsistences.
Still don't think the world is actually consistent to begin with. I'll just say we're critics, we question... well, everything?

A few downsides :
-We have a hard time sharing what's inside our heads, how we see things, with others. No matter how great your idea, it's not so useful if you can't bring your point across.
-We typically don't operate within the acceptable norm...
-Misanthropy (or maybe that's just me), in my eyes coming from having a hard time finding people to closely relate to. It's not so much that I want to fit in with everyone, but atleast finding people who understand how my mind works would be appreciated. Difficulties relating to and / or fitting in with other people.
-Hidden, unpredictable emotions (when they do come out
-Carelessness. (I honestly consider this a plus most of the time... but hey.) Time, social status in whichever form they come (job, money, achievements, whatever) just don't really bother me all too much. Resulting in procrastination, laziness, 'underachievement', ...
 

Jennywocky

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What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to?

What are some typical flaws INTPs tend to share?
  • Procrastination.
  • Dismissing ideas when actually we have misunderstood the goal.
  • Not doing something important when we feel pressure from others.
  • Withdrawing in times of stress/conflict; being reactive, not proactive.
  • Getting so absorbed in theoretical reality that we neglect practical reality.
  • Treating relationships like processes or machine-like rather than organic.
  • Head knowledge without heart knowledge or experience.
  • Knowing only what we think, without knowing what we want.
What causes these habits or flaws (and I really mean flaws not just endearing quirks)? Misplaced function priorities?

Pretty much. We have a big hammer in our toolbox, so everything looks like a nail. But there are other ways to view life and solve problems, that might be more suitable for the problem.

How can INTPs optimize their functions?
Functions have to work in conjunction. We are whole people. Ti without Pe has no eyes. Ti serves its purpose, and very well in the right context, but it has to be tempered with proper data and treating human issues as human and not machine. Preferences, likes/dislkes, loyalties, commitments, all these things factor into human relationships and have to be considered rather than dismissed.

What is the ideal INTP role?
Not every INTP is the same, but typically we are Informers and do best when we can use our insights and analysis and understanding to best frame situations and problems in an objective way. We're really good at seeing rational flaws in systems and arguments, without even trying, so we can shore up holes. We can grant "perspective" to consuming personal problems as well, where people are too emotionally involved to pull back. If you want a reasoned, impartial assessment of the "best answer," we're good people to go to. We're also great at developing sensible strategies most likely to accomplish the goal with minimal risk.
 

Eclectic_K

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Ideal role: Social engineer. The person put in charge to design our entire civilization from the ground up, whilst having no actual communication required with the masses.

Wonderful! Would you like to help me create my Utopian society? At the heart will be a library and the surrounding towns will be an even distribution of all 16 types operating within their optimum functions. It will be a self-sustaining society and center of research and development. We will trade out knowledge and skills with governments and research centers around the world for anything the society may be lacking.
 

Nezaros

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Ideal role: Social engineer. The person put in charge to design our entire civilization from the ground up, whilst having no actual communication required with the masses.

Oh, if only that was a thing.
 

Amagi82

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Wonderful! Would you like to help me create my Utopian society? At the heart will be a library and the surrounding towns will be an even distribution of all 16 types operating within their optimum functions. It will be a self-sustaining society and center of research and development. We will trade out knowledge and skills with governments and research centers around the world for anything the society may be lacking.
You're not thinking big enough! :)

Why do we need governments in a post-scarcity world?
 

Etheri

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You're not thinking big enough! :)

Why do we need governments in a post-scarcity world?

You're not thinking dark enough! :evil:

Why do we need [other] people in a limited-resources world?
 

Eclectic_K

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You're not thinking big enough! :)

Why do we need governments in a post-scarcity world?

At that point a governments main purpose would be to organize and categorize the wealth of information and resources into areas where they can produce the maximum benefit for the maximum amount of people... Wouldn't you say? Gathering books into libraries and things like that?
 

Etheri

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Controlled Cannibalism! I have a joke with my ENTP boyfriend about that sort of thing. :)

Because eating people can be quite kinky.
Okay i'll show myself out...
 

Nezumi

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Can we use general intelligence tests to weed out the Humans from the 'To be eaten'?
 

Nezaros

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My thought was that anybody who is a detriment to society outweighing any benefits they may provide be... recycled. Intelligence nonwithstanding.
 

Amagi82

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At that point a governments main purpose would be to organize and categorize the wealth of information and resources into areas where they can produce the maximum benefit for the maximum amount of people... Wouldn't you say? Gathering books into libraries and things like that?

Gathering books in libraries? Why do we need meatspace books? E-readers make them obsolete, and an online library is all we need, which hardly requires any form of government to set up.

And at that point, government, as we know of it today, is worthless. All we need is a computerized resource management system.
 

Nick

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My thought was that anybody who is a detriment to society outweighing any benefits they may provide be... recycled. Intelligence nonwithstanding.

I much rather slow reproduction rates down to a 1/10 of what we have now, evenly distributed, and focus on longevity methods for the current population.

Longer life spans, and and slowly controlled decrease in population should slow most of the angst in the world resulting in poor economic conditions/destruction of the ecosystem/ disparity/ and a wealth more of problems that will just get worse as the population keeps growing.

If we can cut back the resources we're requiring now and will be needed for current trends, we can stabilize ourselves, fix our problems, focus on the the long-term future, and go from there.
 

Eclectic_K

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I much rather slow reproduction rates down to a 1/10 of what we have now, evenly distributed, and focus on longevity methods for the current population.

Longer life spans, and and slowly controlled decrease in population should slow most of the angst in the world resulting in poor economic conditions/destruction of the ecosystem/ disparity/ and a wealth more of problems that will just get worse as the population keeps growing.

If we can cut back the resources we're requiring now and will be needed for current trends, we can stabilize ourselves, fix our problems, focus on the the long-term future, and go from there.

How do you make sure that the incoming generation and society can still provide for the needs of the dying generations? I agree that over population can be a problem but I don't know how much population control can actually handle. It's a bit of a complex balance it seems.... I think the first thing we need to cut is waste. I've also been wondering how the Sahara hasn't been terra-formed into agricultural land yet. It doesn't seem completely impossible with all the various technologies we have available to us. Perhaps the unstable political climate, limitations on water supplies and not being able to control the weather certainly has to do with it... Any thoughts?
 

Nick

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^anything is possible, but I believe inherently we've moved on from generations that looked to build a better world for the next generation [think: “A society grows great when old men plant trees whose shade they will never sit in.”], into a generation of, I want it NOW, I want it ALL, not for the 'greater-good'.

We've turned into one huge metaphorical sinking ship, and sadly we're all in the same boat together, yet everyone turns a build eye nor looks towards the big picture with the fire on the horizon. :rip:
 

BigApplePi

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What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to? Behaving like INTP's just about all of the time. Tsk! Tsk!

What are some typical flaws INTPs tend to share?
  • Procrastination. Really? You mean they delay their thinking? Must be something else.
  • Dismissing ideas when actually we have misunderstood the goal. If you mean someone's idea was really for something else, yes.
  • Not doing something important when we feel pressure from others. Pressure is an enormous distraction coming from the outside.
  • Withdrawing in times of stress/conflict; being reactive, not proactive. Proactive means dealing with the outside. The outside is wide open which is incompatible with stress.
  • Getting so absorbed in theoretical reality that we neglect practical reality. Theory is more beautiful than reality.
  • Treating relationships like processes or machine-like rather than organic. A machine can be predicted. If relationships aren't rational they must be simplified so they are.
  • Head knowledge without heart knowledge or experience. Experience of the heart is a requirement. Without that one uses what one has.
  • Knowing only what we think, without knowing what we want. It's open season on what is wanted. Try thinking your way through that.
What is the ideal INTP role?
Not every INTP is the same, but typically we are Informers and do best when we can use our insights and analysis and understanding to best frame situations and problems in an objective way. We're really good at seeing rational flaws in systems and arguments, without even trying, so we can shore up holes. We can grant "perspective" to consuming personal problems as well, where people are too emotionally involved to pull back. If you want a reasoned, impartial assessment of the "best answer," we're good people to go to. We're also great at developing sensible strategies most likely to accomplish the goal with minimal risk.
That is correct. It means INTP's are the best if things are to be gotten right. Now if only the other types would pay attention.
 

Nezaros

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I much rather slow reproduction rates down to a 1/10 of what we have now, evenly distributed, and focus on longevity methods for the current population.

Longer life spans, and and slowly controlled decrease in population should slow most of the angst in the world resulting in poor economic conditions/destruction of the ecosystem/ disparity/ and a wealth more of problems that will just get worse as the population keeps growing.

If we can cut back the resources we're requiring now and will be needed for current trends, we can stabilize ourselves, fix our problems, focus on the the long-term future, and go from there.

Either way overpopulation needs to be addressed, but while we work on longevity I like my plan. It eliminates the useless people in society while creating more resources for the useful ones.

I've also been wondering how the Sahara hasn't been terra-formed into agricultural land yet. It doesn't seem completely impossible with all the various technologies we have available to us. Perhaps the unstable political climate, limitations on water supplies and not being able to control the weather certainly has to do with it... Any thoughts?

Probably something to do with this. That, and all the governments with the power to do anything are busy with their own problems. And anyway, the issue isn't a lack of living space so much as just overpopulation. But then, Africa has plenty of other problems to deal with aside from that. But again, the powerful nations of the world should fix their own problems before worrying about Africa.
 

QuickTwist

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How can INTPs optimize their functions?
Functions have to work in conjunction. We are whole people. Ti without Pe has no eyes. Ti serves its purpose, and very well in the right context, but it has to be tempered with proper data and treating human issues as human and not machine. Preferences, likes/dislkes, loyalties, commitments, all these things factor into human relationships and have to be considered rather than dismissed.

What the heck is Pe (I know you mean extraverted percieving)? I've never heard of that before.
 

Amagi82

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How do you make sure that the incoming generation and society can still provide for the needs of the dying generations? I agree that over population can be a problem but I don't know how much population control can actually handle. It's a bit of a complex balance it seems.... I think the first thing we need to cut is waste. I've also been wondering how the Sahara hasn't been terra-formed into agricultural land yet. It doesn't seem completely impossible with all the various technologies we have available to us. Perhaps the unstable political climate, limitations on water supplies and not being able to control the weather certainly has to do with it... Any thoughts?
Automated production and distribution, my friend!
 

Etheri

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That is correct. It means INTP's are the best if things are to be gotten right. Now if only the other types would pay attention.

@BigApplePi This blue is very hard to read for people living in the dark castle.
 

Jennywocky

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What the heck is Pe (I know you mean extraverted percieving)? I've never heard of that before.

Shorthand for Ne or Se, when both are being referred to. I see it on other forums regularly. Sometimes the specifics of S/N don't really matter, when you're just talking about the broad process (such as direction of energy flow, looking within or without for information sources, etc.)

Alternately, what Magnum PI's extroverted cousin uses...

BigApplePi This blue is very hard to read for people living in the dark castle.

What? But, by theory, it should work just fine! Alas.

@BigApplePi:

Not sure why you keyed off MY post for this, as if it needed a rebuttal. Also, your posting inside my quote block using alternate colors means I can't Quote you except by pasting and reformatting the entire post... it might be great for you, but bad for anyone who would care to respond.
 


What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to?
Behaving like INTP's just about all of the time. Tsk! Tsk!
That's not an excuse for refusing to broaden one's thought. INTPs should be even better at seeing alternate pathways than the mainstrea, actually. So there's no excuse at all.
 
Procrastination.
Really? You mean they delay their thinking? Must be something else.
Yes, it IS something else -- I mean "When it comes time to act, logically, but we still sit on our asses and don't do anything because we happen to not like expending energy or can't still make up our minds and so we miss our window of opportunity."

Dismissing ideas when actually we have misunderstood the goal.
If you mean someone's idea was really for something else, yes.

I didn't mean that, so no.

Not doing something important when we feel pressure from others.
Pressure is an enormous distraction coming from the outside.

Yes, having someone bang on the outside of the sensory deprivation tank really sucks, doesn't it?

Withdrawing in times of stress/conflict; being reactive, not proactive.
Proactive means dealing with the outside. The outside is wide open which is incompatible with stress.

Good. Then you shouldn't hate it as much as you seem to.

Getting so absorbed in theoretical reality that we neglect practical reality.
Theory is more beautiful than reality.

Ah, to be Spock's brain in a box and have someone else bathe me, feed me, look after me, earn money for me to live, and otherwise protect me from the realities of exchange with the external world, so that I can float in my mother's womb and think happy thoughts about the nature of the universe. That would be the life.

Treating relationships like processes or machine-like rather than organic.
A machine can be predicted. If relationships aren't rational they must be simplified so they are.

So what did you learn about the cat after you cut it into tiny pieces?

Head knowledge without heart knowledge or experience.
Experience of the heart is a requirement. Without that one uses what one has.

You know, this whole "rational" response from you reads far more like some scree against against an external reality you seem to resent having intruded on your inner space, and my post just the vehicle you swiped in order to rail against it. How ironic.

Knowing only what we think, without knowing what we want.
It's open season on what is wanted. Try thinking your way through that.

Wanting things is not an option, it's a reality. As long as you refuse to explore what you might want, even if it's confusing, you will be subject to unconscious forces that will taint rationality.
 
That is correct. It means INTP's are the best if things are to be gotten right.

Balanced INTPs, possibly. But not INTPs who have not developed some balance in their function use: "Garbage in, garbage out," as they say...
 

BigApplePi

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@Etheri
Originally Posted by Etheri BigApplePi This blue is very hard to read for people living in the dark castle.
I am using the default style. It was a gamble as I had to assume that is most used. It's not too hard to switch back and forth ... with s0cratus if you've seen his posts.

@Jenny.
@BigApplePi: Not sure why you keyed off MY post for this, as if it needed a rebuttal. Also, your posting inside my quote block using alternate colors means I can't Quote you except by pasting and reformatting the entire post... it might be great for you, but bad for anyone who would care to respond.
I didn't intend it as a bebuttal as what you said was quite fine. I intended it as an addition, hoping it could be read. It WAS easier for me as I thought what I said wasn't any big deal. You said you couldn't quote me. What I see is if someone posts in a non-standard way is to duplicate that non-standard. That is, in this case if I replied in blue a reply could be done in red inside also ... and yes by copying the entire block.

To address people's feeling on this, I'm torn between apologizing for the offense and cursing the sensory apparatus which we are given. Who do we really blame here: Small deal, no problem. But what if an INFJ angry person replied instead of the rationals? Yep. INTP flaws good title for this theme.

Do not read the block below. I'm scratching it.:D
Originally Posted by Jennywocky What are some bad habits INTPs fall prey to? Behaving like INTP's just about all of the time. Tsk! Tsk! sssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

What are some typical flaws INTPs tend to share?
  • Procrastination. Really? You mean they delay their thinking? Must be something else.
  • Dismissing ideas when actually we have misunderstood the goal. If you mean someone's idea was really for something else, yes. ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
  • Not doing something important when we feel pressure from others. Pressure is an enormous distraction coming from the outside.
  • Withdrawing in times of stress/conflict; being reactive, not proactive. Proactive means dealing with the outside. The outside is wide open which is incompatible with stress.
  • Getting so absorbed in theoretical reality that we neglect practical reality. Theory is more beautiful than reality.
  • Treating relationships like processes or machine-like rather than organic. A machine can be predicted. If relationships aren't rational they must be simplified so they are.
  • Head knowledge without heart knowledge or experience. Experience of the heart is a requirement. Without that one uses what one has. ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
  • Knowing only what we think, without knowing what we want. It's open season on what is wanted. Try thinking your way through that.
 

Jennywocky

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I didn't intend it as a bebuttal as what you said was quite fine. I intended it as an addition, hoping it could be read. It WAS easier for me as I thought what I said wasn't any big deal. You said you couldn't quote me. What I see is if someone posts in a non-standard way is to duplicate that non-standard. That is, in this case if I replied in blue a reply could be done in red inside also ... and yes by copying the entire block.

The non-standard is a hassle as soon as you go beyond the first iteration, honestly... enough that I'm not motivated to invest the additional time. It's also difficult to read, with too many colors.

Too bad we don't have Word Markup pages.

To address people's feeling on this, I'm torn between apologizing for the offense and cursing the sensory apparatus which we are given.

No need to apologize. Just read my response as (to me) is the natural cause-> effect response to something of that tone. If you change the tone/approach used, then the response would change.

But what if an INFJ angry person replied instead of the rationals?

I'm thinking things would get a lot more interesting (of the "oops, stepped on a land mine" variety).
 

Tony3d

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INTPs are farsighted, they see very well from a distance but once they get up close things become all blurry.
 

BigApplePi

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INTP Flaws & INFx's

I'm thinking things would get a lot more interesting (of the "oops, stepped on a land mine" variety).
Land mines are dangerous. One of INTP's reputed flaws is poor Fe. What if one runs into a skilled wielder of nasty stuff? Let's say someone complains about both content and personnel. INTP's don't really do this, but the non-irrationals will set land mines. When I say "skilled" I mean that. They can register a small hidden complaint that arouses the ire of someone who lets it go the 1st time (no one else notices), but later responds with a protest. Someone else notices and takes a side. This continues and at some point the land mine is set off.

Attention can be brought to the Forum police. Nothing wrong with that. Police can do a good job of policing. The problem is the topic of interest is no longer in our hands. The topic has become emotional rather than rational.
=================

Several hours later I came across Jennywocky saying this:
What I see with INFPs is that they can be pretty calm until their principles get violated, then things can become very dramatic; the other person is not just wrong but "evil and corrupt" ("They shouldn't act that way / believe that, it's just morally bankrupt!"); and at that point one's own moral code insists that the evil and corruption be destroyed. Lots of explosions at that point, that are directed specifically at the "community" ties in order to remove the "evil" person(s) who are supporting such horrible ethics... "They leave or I leave," is often par for the course.

... The need to adhere to inner ethics, though, for INFP, can get coupled with some paranoia states. The famous INFPGlobalChatter or whatever it was (the largest INFP forum I knew of) exploded over a weekend, when someone thought the forum had been hacked, and the admins freaked and just jerked it all down, never to recover; I'm not sure the forum even had been hacked, it was awhile ago and my memory's a little shoddy there....

... and INFJs are typically ultra-responsible. They're not going to let a forum collapse just based on their feelings.)

That's not the best articulated explanation, but it suggests the "gist" of things. I think the INFP forums were the most "volatile" of the INxx forums. The stark moral independence of Fi coupled with the imagination of Ne can lead to some freaky explosions and community dissolution when emotions and fears run rampant.
That offers a lot in the way of seeing INFx's. It would seem INTP's would have the "flaw" of useless reason in the face of this hyper-emotion. Emotion is more powerful than reason (???) so how is it to be overcome other than by displaying calm?
 
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Fghw

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Personally, unfit to function in society. I don't like dealing with people, and the task of feigning the willingness to do so is becoming increasingly onerous. And I'm 16. So where does that leave me?
 

Ink

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Personally, unfit to function in society. I don't like dealing with people, and the task of feigning the willingness to do so is becoming increasingly onerous. And I'm 16. So where does that leave me?

Keep experimenting socially, only gets better.
 
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