INTP and respect.

[Agent Intellect]

we've had the trust and the love threads before (and maybe respect, although i don't remember seeing it), but what about respect? do people find it hard to give (or receive) respect? do you seek the respect of others or don't you care? what do people wish to be respected for the most and what do you respect in others the most? are respect and fear mutually exclusive or one in the same? and what about respect and admiration, do you need one to have the other?

 

[fullerene]

I started to turn that way back in the middle/high school culture, trying to earn respect, but somewhere around junior year I decided I really, really didn't want to live my life that way. As it turns out I'm much, much happier without it. I think it's one of those things people tell you that you want, it works its way in and implants itself in your desires, and when (/if) you finally get it it's sickening. People just start expecting things of you that you know you can't deliver forever, because you're working to do them, and it ruins the enjoyment of actually having the respect in the first place.

I definitely get pissed off when people who overtly disrespect me, too, but the only way I can deal with being respected is if it comes because of me being myself. Neutral is definitely my most comfortable, though.

As far as giving it... actually I tend to not respect people because of their ideas, actually. I'll respect their ideas, each one standing by itself, but I don't think it shifts my opinion of the person a whole lot (unless its in book form or something, where it's a sort of "closed evidence pile" and I can make the decision and know it won't change... then ideas count for a lot). I generally respect people who actually can make me feel comfortable enough to open up to them without acting like they're forcing it, and then don't hate me for it. I think it's just because I think doing that is a whole lot harder than coming up with well thought out ideas.

so I guess it really could go either way, including both fear and admiration. There's much fear in opening up to someone, and admiration for doing something that I can't (making an atmosphere that I actually feel alright in). I'm not sure if either is necessary, though... will have to think about it.

 

[Kidege]

I've read respect doesn't mean the same in English and Spanish. I was taught it's the acknowledgement of the other as a human being, and of the fact that you could be in their place or they in yours.

So over here the term may include a bit of compassion.

And the expressions of respect include listening (complaints, advise, the damned small talk) and being polite (particularly in central Mexico you have to use all the formulae). It's all about showing you know the other is there. (Of course there are varying depths of respect. With your parents/bosses it's linked to obedience/deference).

So now I'm curious:

What is "showing disrespect" like for you guys?
@Cryptonia: how do people overtly disrespect you?

 

[fullerene]

mm... well, take this past summer, for instance. I was babysitting my two little cousins (kind of... they're pretty independent at 4th and 8th grade, so I was more or less just driving them around to where they needed to be), and the older one of them was playing tennis against some other country club's team. As some background, I wear the most comfortable clothes I can--so in this case mesh-like basketball shorts and a t-shirt--and I didn't wear shoes hardly at all over the summer. Both of these things are not exactly "high class."

So I pulled into a spot by the tennis courts with inches to spare next to me (not nearly enough room to open the doors and get out), so we all got out of the doors on the other side of the car, where there was room. Then my younger cousin, the one who wasn't playing tennis, decided to crawl under a row of small trees to play with the bugs in the dirt and stuff (she isn't exactly built for high society either )... so I went in there to play with her too.

Anyway, the people who were in the car on the very close side of me got back (two old ladies), and I could hear them complaining about how close I'd parked to them (they couldnt see me, and didn't know it was my car), so even though I could have just stayed hidden, I hopped out to try to ease them through any concerns they might have had, since I definitely didn't hit them on the way in. Here's where the disrespect comes in... they saw a teenage guy crawling out of the low hanging bushes in loose clothes and without shoes, and made a snap judgment about me. After asking "did you hit my car on the way in here?" she said "cause my husband's a lawyer and I'll sue, you know," as if she could threaten me with her lawyer husband. And even if she could, as if threatening me like that would get me to admit fault if I actually had hit her.

So I told her I didn't hit her, and she asked how I got out of the car then... and, of course, I told her we got out of the other side. I went back under the bushes to tend to my cousin a little, cause she was extremely scared at this point. Then the old lady, after talking to her friend, asks me why I was "hiding" from her. I said I wasn't, and that I was just hanging out with my cousin (who she hadn't seen yet). She mumbles with her frind some more... then says "you kno, there are ticks under there." I just thought... what? and stared at her blankly. She goes "the longer you spend under there, the better chance there is of getting a tick," ....as if no one wants ticks, so staying under there after my eyes had been opened to this possibility would prove that we were hiding.


It was just disrespectful and insulting in a couple ways. First doubting driving skill... then my foresight to realize we had to get out of the other side of the car... then my honesty, when I told her we didn't hit her (when there wouldn't have even been a mark on her car!)... then threatening me with a lawyer... then accusing me of hiding (did she think I was a child abductor or something?)... then trying to scare us out from where we were staying. I was seething, as soon as I had gotten away from her and had time to process what she must have been thinking.

That's at least the best example I can think of right now of open disrespect--judging me incapable of standing up for myself based on criteria that say more about yourself than they do about me.

 

[Agent Intellect]

one of the main reasons i asked about this is because earlier in the week my boss at work asked me why i don't show her any respect. she had only very recently become my boss as my department got joined with another one (downgrades) and she only ever came around to bitch at us, and i challenged her on a lot of the shit she wanted to change. i told her that nothing she's done has earned her my respect.

the other reason is because of rising gang activity in the area that i live. people say that you have to have respect for the gang members, but i think what they really mean is fear.

i show respect to people that earn my respect, not people that demand it because they hold the title "boss" or because they have money, or because they'll shoot you for "disrespecting" them. i have more respect for people that use their heads, for intelligence and wisdom. i respect people that i disagree with if they deserve it.

 

[nihilen.]

I never seek respect, and I only respect individuals, but they have to earn it first.

That's about it.

 

[Ermine]

we've had the trust and the love threads before (and maybe respect, although i don't remember seeing it), but what about respect? do people find it hard to give (or receive) respect? do you seek the respect of others or don't you care? what do people wish to be respected for the most and what do you respect in others the most? are respect and fear mutually exclusive or one in the same? and what about respect and admiration, do you need one to have the other?

Ok, first being respected. It makes me feel uneasy. People tend to respect me for shallow reasons, usually because I make a good impression with my clothes, or I appear smart, or something like that. While that may be true, it bothers me because they don't know who they're respecting (this usually comes from people who barely know me), and simply because I know my inner weaknesses in areas that matter much more than looks and impressions.

I know this is the only kind of respect most people can give me because I don't really open myself up to people, but I prefer people's respect and criticism to be specific, for a specific thing I did, made, or said. I usually give others respect on this basis as well.

As for giving respect, I mainly respect people for their abilities. Not only if they're intelligent, but if they're skilled in something I'm interested in, or are understanding. I need to admire someone to respect them as people.

And like Cryptonia, I used to try to gain respect and play the social game in middle school and part of high school, but I realized that it's overrated and I have better things to do.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I've always had a fairly solid set of beliefs regarding respect; I expect exactly the same amount of respect from others as I give to them. I respect everyone’s personal space and their right to be treated civilly, if this is not met by others I will "encourage" them to be respectful. If they continue I will "educate" them in the reasons why a respectful civility is called for when they are interacting with me.
Very rarely dose this come to a physical confrontation and since I would never start such a confrontation it usually results in me being attacked by somebody who is already pretty likely to win. I may come off the worst but I've never been attacked by the same person twice, hence I've proven my point "I'm not worth the trouble".

I only really respect highly intelligent people or those who have proven themselves to be hardworking; not everyone is born with equal intelligence, so I have more respect for somebody who tries their best than somebody who can get by on innate talent. Laziness is one of my greatest failings; hence I admire those who lack my strengths but have better developed on my weaknesses.

@-nihilen
Com'on , you sure that's all you have to say?

 

[sagewolf]

I know of three types of respect:

Respect-as-politeness: I do require this, and if someone fails to show me this, then they receive no respect from me of any kind. It is so basic. Just don't treat me like I just climbed out of a dumpster in front of you, baring a dead cat and speaking gibberish. I will always reciprocate this respect.

Respect-as-admiration: I like people to respect my skills. I like hearing that someone thinks I draw well, or paint well, or write well. That I improve my skills is irrelevant to whether or not people respect me; that said, it's still nice to be highly regarded. This means that I like to impress people, and I like them to appreciate my achievements, but I don't chase or demand this type of respect. I also feel that this type of respect should be earned by others. I don't just dole it out like candy.

Respect-as-tolerance: I expect my views and beliefs to be respected: this means that I expect everyone to allow me to think as I do, to hold my own opinions, and, if I feel the need, to air them to whatever audience I see fit. (If said audience falls asleep or runs off in panic, this is... regrettable, but their personal choice: I will not force them to listen.) I do not appreciate having others' beliefs or views imposed on me, nor will I impose my own on others, merely make them known. This is a way of showing respect, too, and one which I prize highly.

So... that's what I think. (I have just realized that my top signature quote explains my attitude to the second and third types quite well...)

And like Cryptonia, I used to try to gain respect and play the social game in middle school and part of high school, but I realized that it's overrated and I have better things to do.

Social game? I never even got the handbook.

 

[Kidege]

one of the main reasons i asked about this is because earlier in the week my boss at work asked me why i don't show her any respect. she had only very recently become my boss as my department got joined with another one (downgrades) and she only ever came around to bitch at us, and i challenged her on a lot of the shit she wanted to change. i told her that nothing she's done has earned her my respect.

I'm afraid most (all?) authority figures would think the same of me.

the other reason is because of rising gang activity in the area that i live. people say that you have to have respect for the gang members, but i think what they really mean is fear.

Eek. I've heard this a lot in drug dealers songs. It's definitely fear.

respect to people that earn my respect, not people that demand it because they hold the title "boss" or because they have money, or because they'll shoot you for "disrespecting" them. i have more respect for people that use their heads, for intelligence and wisdom. i respect people that i disagree with if they deserve it.

My words, exactly, more than once. I would point out I respect them as coworkers, etc., but then they talked about trust. And then I had to tell them I couldn't trust them if I didn't know how they'd act just yet. They went and blew a fuse.

These days I'm working on the diplomatic approach: smile a lot, nod a bit, compromise in the meaningless stuff, and don't budge an inch in what actually matters.

@Cryptonia: Sounds like she went beyond the disrespectful and into the insulting. Not someone I'd like to meet.

 

[lemonsunite]

most people say that their respect for other people starts at a 0-2 level.
for me most people start at -1 because they really dont deserve any better

in school, teachers were mostly the only ones who ever had a problem with me and respect. They would sometimes call home and complain about how i'm not listening and i never give them any respect.

when I was taking a short summer course (a long time ago), i had a teacher who would always yell at me for looking at her when she talked, so i stopped looking at her after the first week. The next week she called home to tell my parents that i was being disrepectful by not paying attention to what she was saying

 

[Oblivious]

imo, respecting someone is not really something you have a conscious choice in. Its more of a byproduct of the choices we have already made and the values we have. If someone values the same things I do and glorifies them, I find that respect comes involuntarily. Respect is not given as many have stated; it is earned, and the word earn implies that respect is a product of the effort of earning and nothing more.

I value competency and intelligence and its naturally to my own advantage to respect those who value the same things. People who demand respect I believe, are operating under a different definition more related to operating under a chain of command or similar.

Respect, I find is very close yet quite distinct from another emotion called Love. Maybe thats why I tend to find nerdy girls attractive.

 

[NoID10ts]

I generally respect people automatically until they give me a reason not to. Even when they lose my respect, in the real world, I still make an effort to treat them respectfully, although I am terrible at faking it and I suspect they see through me.

As for having respect. People seem to respect me on grounds of morality and integrity, but I have resigned myself to the fact that there is something about me that does not exude intellect (no snide remarks necessary there ). All my life people have initially underestimated my intellect and my creativity (perhaps my strongest suit). For some reason, people seem to rally around me like I need protecting, as if I am the village idiot or something.

Oh man! Maybe I am the village idiot.

 

[Jennywocky]

I have a logical principle that I consider all people of equal worth, regardless of birth status or whatever else. Because we're human, and we have no control over what we start with.

So if I respect someone, it is not based on gender or color or indigenous culture or economic group by birth or anything else, it's built on what they've done with what they have.

So I respect the smart, and the fair, and the honest, and the considerate, and the non-prideful, and the innovative, and so on. I respect people for their ideas and their honesty in their thought processes; and I respect people for the kindness in their attitudes towards others, especially when inconvenient for them.

I will judge some people as irrelevant if their ideas (and behavior driven by those ideas) are consistently derivative, unfair, selfish, biased, exclusionary, mean, etc.

I'm very forgiving and will change my response if they change their approach, I don't hold back respect out of a grudge if someone shows a true change of character.

Oh man! Maybe I am the village idiot.

Oh noes -- you'd better lock down that spot quick, then, cuz as of the end of January another person with a bigger name than yours is gonna be looking for a new job!

 

[QuestiontheStupid]

Ill respect people.But if they tell me what to do,demand something of me or try and limit me-their screwed.

 

[EditorOne]

"one of the main reasons i asked about this is because earlier in the week my boss at work asked me why i don't show her any respect. she had only very recently become my boss as my department got joined with another one (downgrades) and she only ever came around to bitch at us, and i challenged her on a lot of the shit she wanted to change. i told her that nothing she's done has earned her my respect."


Oh, yeah. That resonates, with everyone, I bet.

I find it baffling people expect respect for no reason other than the position of power or authority they hold, even if they are the biggest bag of wind and sack of shit in five states.

However I've learned to be a little more coy, should anyone ask directly why I show no respect.

"Oh, sorry, I was brought up to believe respect is something you earn, not an entitlement." Now she'd have to challenge not just me and my beetling brow, but my parents. And notice how I made "respect is something you earn" a family value? :-) She has to escalate in order to continue to push her point.

I got tired of more or less calling people windbags a while back. It's fun for awhile, but mostly when you're younger than I am now.

 

[fullerene]

one of the main reasons i asked about this is because earlier in the week my boss at work asked me why i don't show her any respect. she had only very recently become my boss as my department got joined with another one (downgrades) and she only ever came around to bitch at us, and i challenged her on a lot of the shit she wanted to change. i told her that nothing she's done has earned her my respect.

Ever heard of something called The Peterman Principle? At least... I think that's what it was called. haha it was one of those things one of my science teachers brought up in high school, and I've never heard of it anywhere else (not even wikipedia). Basically, it's that in jobs, if you do a good job and put forth a lot of effort, you tend to get promoted. If you don't do a good job, then you stop getting promoted. So people tend to "stop" in businesses one level after they turn incompetant, rather than one level before. The end result is that very few "bosses" are actually good at what they're doing, no matter where in the company you fall.

anyway... did you ask your boss what she actually meant by respect? You can see even by all the definitions here that everyone has something different in mind. If all you were doing was suggesting better ways to do things... I can't imagine she has a good reason to be upset.

 

[loveofreason]

^ Yes, everyone in an organisation reaches their level of critical incompetence. I thought I learned it as simply the "Peter Principle", but maybe time has fizzed my memories.

I generally respect people automatically until they give me a reason not to. Even when they lose my respect, in the real world, I still make an effort to treat them respectfully...

I'm similar.

Oh man! Maybe I am the village idiot.

Oh noes -- you'd better lock down that spot quick, then, cuz as of the end of January another person with a bigger name than yours is gonna be looking for a new job!

Do tell.

Actually, I'm still wondering what respect is.

 

[Agent Intellect]

anyway... did you ask your boss what she actually meant by respect? You can see even by all the definitions here that everyone has something different in mind. If all you were doing was suggesting better ways to do things... I can't imagine she has a good reason to be upset.

i assume the respect that people often feel entitled to because of a position or title, much the same way a judge feels entitled to be called "your honor" even if they're an idiot, just because they're a judge.

i don't start off with no respect for people, but i start off with equal respect for everyone, no matter what position or title somebody holds. all she did was bitch at us and try to make us do things (like telling us we can't wear a sweatshirt even though its 35 degrees by the dock doors, just to exert her dominance over us) so my level of respect for her dropped off right away, regardless of what she wants to call herself.

 

[Fleur]

I treat everybody like they`re equal with me, disregarding age or any other circumstances. Everyone should be respected, but if they loose the respect, then it`s their own fault.

For some reason, people seem to rally around me like I need protecting, as if I am the village idiot or something.

I understand it. People (mostly my coevals) tend to "take care" about me, to act like I`m little kid who can`t do anything without getting a help from others.

 

[NoID10ts]

Do tell.

A reference to Bush who will be out of office in January. But Bush doesn't have anything on me. He is currently the most powerful man in the world and in January he will have formerly been the most powerful man in the world. Can't take that away from him.

And here I sit at o'dark thirty in the morning eating a bowl of mashed potatoes for breakfast and wondering how I will fair through my day as a middle school computer tech surrounded by little preteen lunatics, most of whom wouldn't know respect if it bit them on the ass.

Village idiot indeed.

Where's that suicide thread?

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Haha, how many passwords do you have to reset a day, NoIdiots?

 

[NoID10ts]

Haha, how many passwords do you have to reset a day, NoIdiots?

Don't get me started. But most of my problems are not with the students, its usually the teachers! But, the students pose the more interesting problems because they figure out how to get around the school district filters, using proxys and such, and look at porn in the computer labs. Hell, some of them have been brazen enough to do it on their teachers' computers!

Our future is just screwed.

 

[Ogion]

Ah well, but you see, people who are obsessed with porn probably won't be very active, and thus not apt at destroying things (politically and stuff).Akthough of course they thusly give away their influence to let others do what they want with them...Damn zombies

Ogion

 

[loveofreason]

A reference to Bush who will be out of office in January. But Bush doesn't have anything on me. He is currently the most powerful man in the world and in January he will have formerly been the most powerful man in the world. Can't take that away from him.

Ahh yes. It did eventually dawn on me that those of you in the great backwaters would be retiring your old ass.

Oops.

And here I sit at o'dark thirty in the morning eating a bowl of mashed potatoes for breakfast and wondering how I will fair through my day as a middle school computer tech surrounded by little preteen lunatics, most of whom wouldn't know respect if it bit them on the ass.

Village idiot indeed.

Where's that suicide thread?

I'm so bad at sympathy.

I encourage everyone who wants to sit with NoID10Ts in the cold of morning with his mash and a bit of misery, to add a frowny face.





Suicide watch at your service.

 

[NoID10ts]

I'm so bad at sympathy.

I encourage everyone who wants to sit with NoID10Ts in the cold of morning with his mash and a bit of misery, to add a frowny face.





Suicide watch at your service.

NoID10ts gets all misty eyed, grabs a kleenex, and runs out of the room.

"I'm not crying! It's allergies! ALLERGIES I SAY!"

 

[EloquentBohemian]

I prefer to approach everyone with an attitude expressed by the Sanskrit word Namaste, which means basically: " I honour and respect that divinity within you that is also within me".
Any respect additional to this is founded on one's performance in any sociologial setting (as society is theatre complete with costumes and masques). If another addresses me with an attitude below what is expressed by namaste, then disrespect is returned in equal measure by me. If the attitude is above namaste, then reciprocation is appropriate.
If another demonstrates qualities, over and above my own, of knowledge, intelligence, aptitude, etc. which they have acquired over long periods of experience, I will offer additional respect to those qualities.
Figures of authority in a hierarchial setting will receive acknowledgement of their position, but the expression of respect is subject to the above qualifications.

Respect is an aspect of social functioning. It should be given when merited and never be demanded.
We are born naked and we will die naked, everything in between is theatre.

 

[Sylzarra]

We are born naked and we will die naked, everything in between is theatre.

Wow that really is eloquent, you do really live up to your sn. And I must say I agree with you. I think that everyone around me deserves a basic level of respect. And based on how they treat me or how I see them treat others i treat them better or worse. In addition their actions that I observe increase or decrease my respect for them. Notice how I mentioned that i would have to see/observe these my self? I would never judge anyone by anything I've heard about them from a third source nor by their past failures.

 

[INTPINFP]

most people say that their respect for other people starts at a 0-2 level.
for me most people start at -1 because they really dont deserve any better

in school, teachers were mostly the only ones who ever had a problem with me and respect. They would sometimes call home and complain about how i'm not listening and i never give them any respect.

when I was taking a short summer course (a long time ago), i had a teacher who would always yell at me for looking at her when she talked, so i stopped looking at her after the first week. The next week she called home to tell my parents that i was being disrepectful by not paying attention to what she was saying

lol

 

[Jesin]

Oh man! Maybe I am the village idiot.

Is that a bad thing?
YouTube- Monty Python - Village Idiots

 

[Madoness]

i show respect to people that earn my respect, not people that demand it because they hold the title "boss" or because they have money, or because they'll shoot you for "disrespecting" them. i have more respect for people that use their heads, for intelligence and wisdom. i respect people that i disagree with if they deserve it.

I cannot respect people before I know them. But as for job... I accept my boss to be my boss and that's it, I don't give a **** about what he thinks about me not respecting him. I'm not in need to be respected and therefore treat others the same.
But of course I respect people who deserve to be respected in my mind.