INTP and Chronic Depression plus an Autoimmune Disease

[Littlefoot]

Please help, I feel like I'm drowning alive. I was diagnosed with Lupus this past summer and put on a bunch of meds to help control it. Mostly steriods and immuno suppressents. I was fine the first couple months but now its like I'm constantly in a state of depression and anger. Its starting to interfer with marriage and I'm afraid its only gonna get worse. The dog I use to love and was my emotional support dog, I hate and wanna get rid of. I have no drive or desire to do anything in life anymore. Things that I use to enjoy I dont enjoy anymore. I am seeing a psychologist but its not helping, they are trying to move me to see a psychiatrist but its going to take a couple weeks for it to process and be cleared. I'm just looking for advice to help cope until I can see this person because I honestly cant stand it anymore. I want to be who I was before this all happened, happy and actually enjoying life.

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[IndigoViolet11]

So you think it's like a chain reaction of something? I guess sometimes the side effect of the meds aren't very pleasant. Especially when there is no apparent reason for the depression.

I cannot help much, but I guess if we have a problem, it can be a mental problem, as there are sources that said they are interrelated. But with our technology, a lot of cause and effect is unknown even to the psychologists themselves.

 

[Tannhauser]

So, I can only infer things from the short text you wrote here, but based on it you seem to have taken on a mindset directed towards escape - you are desperate to get a solution, a way to go back the former you - healthy and care free.

But you might want to accept the possibility that you will never go back. In fact, it might very well become worse. The challenge is to be happy despite knowing that.

That's my take on the problem, anyway. I have had arthritis since my early 20s (Im 27 now). You wouldn't be able to tell, but I am basically in constant pain, and will be for the rest of my life. So for me, it is just another aspect of life - not something to be escaped, but something to be embraced like all the other challenges in life. It definitely requires a different level of self-discipline and self-control. You have to manage your emotions in a way that most people don't need to. Sometimes the pain makes me irritable and angry like yourself. But in those cases I catch myself and realize it was my lower self reacting.

In short, you can't afford to be a leaf in the wind anymore.

 

[QuickTwist]

There was a thread made here years ago when InappropriateBehavior was still here on pain. Great thread IMO. I forgot what the title was, however and don't have a clue how to start a search for it. If anyone else remembers the thread I think it would be good to link here.

 

[Reluctantly]

Come to the dark side of the force. We have force-choke cookies and Emo Kylo Ren for our entertainment. Embrace the dark side and all the pain becomes enthralling. You can do it.

 

[Littlefoot]

Yes I do think its somewhat of a chain reaction, I'm taking steriods, immuno suppresents, stuff for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, my heart beats too fast so something to control that, I have high intercranial pressure so something to control that, plus the actaully Lupus meds which also damage my retinas meaning I'll eventually go blind, I'm severly anemic, I'm mean the list goes on and on, I sometimes feel like a ticking time bomb to waiting to explode.

I guess the escape theory would be pretty accurate, before all this happened I was a healthy and had a bright future ahead of me, now, I can barely run without feeling like I cant breath. There are many different types of Lupus, the man one being SLE. Often times Lupus also attacks an organ, mine happens to be the kidneys. Its also in the back of my mind that one day they could fail then from there the doctors cant do very much. I really dont know why I'm so depressed or what causes it, sometimes it feels like I wanna cry all day. I guess I am having a hard time accepting my new life. It sucks cause I really didnt get a chance to build a life on my own, I'm 19 years old.

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[Sinny91]

A bag of weed, is what you need, should cheer you up indeed.

 

[Littlefoot]

A bah of weed, is what you need, should cheer you up indeed.

In all honesty I could go down and get my medical Marijuana card, I do qualify and its legal here in washington.

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[Sinny91]

Do eet!

I don't have anything half as serious Lupus, but I am chronically depressed, and I do experience some chronic pain... weed works a treat... Turns an intolerable world into a tolerable one.

 

[QuickTwist]

A bag of weed, is what you need, should cheer you up indeed.

I actually agree with this.

 

[Littlefoot]

Do eet!

I don't have anything half as serious Lupus, but I am chronically depressed, and I do experience some chronic pain... weed works a treat... Turns an intolerable world into a tolerable one.

I was doing CBD for awhile, I was vaping it and it seemed to help, the only problem is how expensive it is the get it.

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[IndigoViolet11]

Because meds can cause other problem when trying to fix one, like me, or some, for example, having flu meds cause me to feel tired all day and can only sleep,, andd as well as others that made things even more worst than the original problem was. While it is a good idea to assume it to be a mental problem and fix it in terms of spirituality (not necessarily the mainstream one and I don't recommend new age, as they are so much of a money ripoff), try talking to the doctor and see what advice he could give you. Meds suitable for some aren't always suitable for the others.

 

[Creeping Death]

I've had great results with sertraline, although some don't. But I followed thru long enough to notice the intended results over a period of time. I think that's the main reason why sertraline doesn't have better results among others is because they stopped taking it not long after being prescribed. For many it has to be taken consistently for a few weeks to a month or so to start noticing a difference. I was constantly sluggish and pissed off the first few weeks, but I kept in contact with the doc and took them consistently as prescribed and now I can see why it's useful for depression. I also have less urges to use other substances recreationally. At the office they described it as a new coat of paint on an old car. I actually didn't know how depressed I was before.

Talk to your doc about it, just what seems to be working for me. Doesn't do the trick for everybody apparently. There are other SSRI's out there but idk enough about them to give any significant opinion on them.

 

[Shieru]

Hi Littlefoot,

i know how difficult it can be to face a chronic illness. at first it can be overwhelming and seem like life will never be the same. and it probably won't - but i think things don't have to be as bad as it seems they might be. mainstream medicine is still learning about autoimmune conditions, doctors don't always have answers. but there's a lot of information out there (like this) about how they can be managed and sometimes even reversed using diet, lifestyle and supplements. i don't know if you've tried seeing an integrative medicine doctor, but i've found that they're often more knowledgeable about complex conditions and can be better help than regular MDs.

it makes sense that you'd be depressed, this is a difficult change to go though. i think in part depresson is our way of retreating when we need to care for ourselves and reflect on our approach to life. when not feeling well, the body can go into a defensive mode as well, kind of like when an animal is hurt it tries to hide and becomes aggressive. the people who are closest to us tend to get the brunt of this combative behavior, because they are the ones most present with us. it's kind of contradictory as we need our family support the most when we're sick, but we're also the least capable of getting along with others >.<

something interesting, speaking of depression, is that recent research shows a relationship between stress/emotion and chronic (especially autoimmune) diseases. it seems that sometimes, physical illness is one manifestation of suppressed negative emotions. especially when these emotions go back to childhood, they can set the biochemical stage for illness later in life. a really good book i've been reading lately on the topic is When the Body Says No.

i hope something of this is helpful to you. even though it's difficult to go though, and there's no quick fix, i think illness is a journey that can end up causing a lot of growth. you may find yourself stronger and wiser someday because of it.

 

[Littlefoot]

Hi Littlefoot,

i know how difficult it can be to face a chronic illness. at first it can be overwhelming and seem like life will never be the same. and it probably won't - but i think things don't have to be as bad as it seems they might be. mainstream medicine is still learning about autoimmune conditions, doctors don't always have answers. but there's a lot of information out there (like this) about how they can be managed and sometimes even reversed using diet, lifestyle and supplements. i don't know if you've tried seeing an integrative medicine doctor, but i've found that they're often more knowledgeable about complex conditions and can be better help than regular MDs.

it makes sense that you'd be depressed, this is a difficult change to go though. i think in part depresson is our way of retreating when we need to care for ourselves and reflect on our approach to life. when not feeling well, the body can go into a defensive mode as well, kind of like when an animal is hurt it tries to hide and becomes aggressive. the people who are closest to us tend to get the brunt of this combative behavior, because they are the ones most present with us. it's kind of contradictory as we need our family support the most when we're sick, but we're also the least capable of getting along with others >.<

something interesting, speaking of depression, is that recent research shows a relationship between stress/emotion and chronic (especially autoimmune) diseases. it seems that sometimes, physical illness is one manifestation of suppressed negative emotions. especially when these emotions go back to childhood, they can set the biochemical stage for illness later in life. a really good book i've been reading lately on the topic is When the Body Says No.

i hope something of this is helpful to you. even though it's difficult to go though, and there's no quick fix, i think illness is a journey that can end up causing a lot of growth. you may find yourself stronger and wiser someday because of it.

This has helped me out alot, Thank you! I've never really been able to make sense of why this depression is happening to me, but the way you explained it actually makes sense to me. Its very difficult, everyday is a new battle.

I looked at the alternative treatments and I might actually bring it up with my team of doctors, ( I have like 7 doctors plus what seems like an infinite amount of interns). I might have to wait till my Lupus is under control before I start any of them, but I'll still talk to them about it.

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[Shieru]

This has helped me out alot, Thank you! I've never really been able to make sense of why this depression is happening to me, but the way you explained it actually makes sense to me. Its very difficult, everyday is a new battle.

I looked at the alternative treatments and I might actually bring it up with my team of doctors, ( I have like 7 doctors plus what seems like an infinite amount of interns). I might have to wait till my Lupus is under control before I start any of them, but I'll still talk to them about it.

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i'm so glad you've found it helpful best of luck with talking to your doctors. in my experience adding natural anti-inflammatories (when you can, of course) boosts the body's ability to heal. the turmeric listed in that article is especially effective, as are ginger, acetyl-l-carnitine and l-carnosine.

 

[Sinny91]

I went to the doctors today... about my throat.
Has been weird for the last couple of months, and getting progressively weirder.

Feels swollen, and slightly constricted.

Doctor said she couldn't diagnose me... I don't think she tried hard enough. She wasn't even going to look down it before I asked her to.

She said she dunno what it is, but prescribed me some tablets to tackle acid or something.

-_-

I dont have issues with acid or indigestion, as I told her.

She said the only thing she can think of is stress, and I should go back in January if it persists.

Honestly I dont know what these doctors get paid for.
It feels really uncomfortable right about now.

Until the day they prescribe me weed, they are good for nothing... like, prescribing anti acid tabs, but not suggesting anti inflams?

Er, yea, ok then doc.

 

[QuickTwist]

here it is. Its short, but there is some really good stuff in there.

 

[Littlefoot]

I went to the doctors today... about my throat.
Has been weird for the last couple of months, and getting progressively weirder.

Feels swollen, and slightly constricted.

Doctor said she couldn't diagnose me... I don't think she tried hard enough. She wasn't even going to look down it before I asked her to.

She said she dunno what it is, but prescribed me some tablets to tackle acid or something.

-_-

I dont have issues with acid or indigestion, as I told her.

She said the only thing she can think of is stress, and I should go back in January if it persists.

Honestly I dont know what these doctors get paid for.
It feels really uncomfortable right about now.

Until the day they prescribe me weed, they are good for nothing... like, prescribing anti acid tabs, but not suggesting anti inflams?

Er, yea, ok then doc.

Ha she sounds like an intern, she should have at least looked at it or maybe even done an xray, could it be allergies?

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[Minuend]

here it is. Its short, but there is some really good stuff in there.

If you remove the =pain in the link it wont show pain highlighted in red

Talk to your doc about it, just what seems to be working for me. Doesn't do the trick for everybody apparently. There are other SSRI's out there but idk enough about them to give any significant opinion on them.

My use of SSRI overlapped with developing more of a chronic inflammatory illness which is currently unknown. Either it was coincidental, the pills caused it or they triggered it (I have anti inflammatory illnesses in my family, so I probably had a disposition). It's been maybe like 4 years since I quite, but I still have noticeably effects from them. For instance, parts of my cognition feels cut off, particularly emotions/ how I experience things. I don't have access to subtle, positive emotions. Which means I enjoy everything less, music, videogames, films, conversations with other people. I should probably add back then I was so depressed I didn't notice as these things were cut off, it was only I came out of depression I noticed my mind has been crippled in that way.

In addition to things like that, I also around those times started to gradually feel extremely fatigued, brain fog, some difficulty with words which I still have some days/ weeks. I feel almost compelled to mention this when someone talks about SSRI as there is a small chance they actually made me sick. As things are now, I went from having massive amount of energy 100% working, to maybe be put out of work/ real life completely because I'm too sick. I'm feel constantly physically shit, I'm too tired to even play videogames some days, I'm underweight because I can't eat normally anymore etc.

I did eventually learn how to overcome depression (maybe some 2 years after stopping pills, so they didn't help me there), perhaps partly because of a good friend of mine who changed how I think and taught me to see things in new ways which eventually created a new perception of reality in which I managed to accept and live with things where I needn't be depressed. Of course, there are different things that work for different people, but after I got out of it I was kinda surprised at how "easy" it was. I mean, it took a long time and was difficult, but the idea behind it and the execution is relatively simple. But teaching it to others, especially those who are depressed, is extremely difficult. I don't even think psychologists etc are particularly good at it, I don't know how many of them understand it themselves.

Anyways, I wrote about it here. But I'm shit at explaining, though. (I can't read it myself, too cringy >_<)

 

[Rixus]

I don't know much about living with chronic pain.

I know I've heard it said that INTP's aren't inherently associated with depression (though we apparently have a higher rate of schizo-typical pd compared to most types), but I can't see how that can be the case. We can't stop thinking and churning over stuff, and everyone here seems to have had the experience of being an outcast and having been very misunderstood. And I get the impression that a lot of people here have had experiences they don't care to discuss or even remember. How this can not lead to depression is a mystery.

I have, before now, felt so low that the entire world seems void of colour; surrounded by a haze of nothingness and it feels as though no one would even notice if I just went to that bridge and jumped. I can't be bothered to do anything - eat, sleep, speak. Just an empty carcass with a brain and no soul wondering around. Yet somehow I manage to just trudge on and do the bear minimum of functioning that is required until it passes. It can last a few days or a couple of weeks.

I wish I could offer better advice other than to relate. All I can add is that it sounds as though this is not a long term thing for you. I won't go on about medication, because that'll be down to your doctor. But you should try to make spouse understand what you're going through and they should show you patience enough for the time this will take.

 

[Rixus]

And, oddly, I've never told anyone about those times. No one notices, really. Or cares, I guess.

If it really gets to that point where I just want to live anymore, I run a mental simulation of exactly what would happen. And have to logically conclude that my work here is not done. The fact that there are people 100% reliant on me means I cannot.

 

[Littlefoot]

If you remove the =pain in the link it wont show pain highlighted in red



My use of SSRI overlapped with developing more of a chronic inflammatory illness which is currently unknown. Either it was coincidental, the pills caused it or they triggered it (I have anti inflammatory illnesses in my family, so I probably had a disposition). It's been maybe like 4 years since I quite, but I still have noticeably effects from them. For instance, parts of my cognition feels cut off, particularly emotions/ how I experience things. I don't have access to subtle, positive emotions. Which means I enjoy everything less, music, videogames, films, conversations with other people. I should probably add back then I was so depressed I didn't notice as these things were cut off, it was only I came out of depression I noticed my mind has been crippled in that way.

In addition to things like that, I also around those times started to gradually feel extremely fatigued, brain fog, some difficulty with words which I still have some days/ weeks. I feel almost compelled to mention this when someone talks about SSRI as there is a small chance they actually made me sick. As things are now, I went from having massive amount of energy 100% working, to maybe be put out of work/ real life completely because I'm too sick. I'm feel constantly physically shit, I'm too tired to even play videogames some days, I'm underweight because I can't eat normally anymore etc.

I did eventually learn how to overcome depression (maybe some 2 years after stopping pills, so they didn't help me there), perhaps partly because of a good friend of mine who changed how I think and taught me to see things in new ways which eventually created a new perception of reality in which I managed to accept and live with things where I needn't be depressed. Of course, there are different things that work for different people, but after I got out of it I was kinda surprised at how "easy" it was. I mean, it took a long time and was difficult, but the idea behind it and the execution is relatively simple. But teaching it to others, especially those who are depressed, is extremely difficult. I don't even think psychologists etc are particularly good at it, I don't know how many of them understand it themselves.

Anyways, I wrote about it here. But I'm shit at explaining, though. (I can't read it myself, too cringy >_<)

What your experiencing sounds like what I go through on a daily basis, its hard and extreamly frustrating. I spent about 2 months in the hospital when I was first diagnosed, during that time I lost like 30 pounds and I've stayed underweight since then because of the constant nausea.

Changing your state of mind about being depressed makes sense. It just seems a little difficult because some days I dont know why I'm depressed, I'm just depressed and cant seem to shake it. Other days it could be the littlest thing like burning my breakfast or even having to wake up in the morning, I guess you could say I "trigger" easily. But your idea I will certainly give it a try, I'm willing to try anything at this point.

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[Minuend]

Is it your meds that make you feel nauseated? Stuff like caraway and ginger might alleviate it a bit. I get nauseated from eating too much fat or sugar, but that's because of digestion, not meds.

Some of your depression might be induced by your illness (I don't know anything about lupus in particular, but know it's the case for some types of illnesses so I assume it's the same). I don't know enough about your illness to know what part is the reaction, and what comes from the illness itself, so you're better off trusting your own judgment than mine. I can talk a bit about my experiences, maybe you'll end up finding something useful, maybe not. Regardless overcoming depression takes a lot of time and some days it's extra hard because you feel entirely beat down. Give it time and don't rush it. It does get easier with time. There is a chance you'll have a chronic type of mild depression even if you manage to rid yourself of the worst, though. I know that's the case for some people, but some are able to manage it at that point.

I used to be depressed and not know why, but in my case it was because I didn't realize when something was bothering me. I had a tendency to think things that shouldn't logically bother me, didn't bother me and that lead me to not feel about them, and thus they never went away. I would think you're still depressed because of everything that's changed etc, so it's not surprising small things can tip the cup. And it's entirely ok to feel that way. It's important to remember even when trying to overcome depression, that's it's allowed to grieve occasionally. Some days you just feel sad and devastated and you wrap yourself in a blanket and refuse to talk to anyone. Sometimes that's necessary and sometimes that will make you feel better after and more able to "rise again". Let the feels flow through you and stuff ._.

It's not that long ago you got your diagnosis, so it's understandable you need a bit more time to adjust. Eventually, like Tannhauser says, one needs to accept the new life and try to make the best of it. And yes, that might sound horrible if your future looks bleak, but it is possible to find some joys in the smaller things. I guess in the end it's either living with a horrible illness and feel depressed, or living with a horrible illness and feel ok. I hope it doesn't come of as patronizing or anything. I'm not saying stuff are easy and stuff, and some people have it worse than others. And yes, it can be extremely frustrating.

Oh, and I guess you might benefit from green and white tea if you enjoy drinking tea. If you drink too much green tea on an empty stomach you might get nauseous. Matcha is good stuff, but even easier to get nauseous from. Loose weight tends to be better than bags, some of it is overpriced though (well, depends on what country you're from, I guess. Tea tends to be considered fancy pansy here). White tea tends to be good for my brain fog

 

[Littlefoot]

Is it your meds that make you feel nauseated? Stuff like caraway and ginger might alleviate it a bit. I get nauseated from eating too much fat or sugar, but that's because of digestion, not meds.

Some of your depression might be induced by your illness (I don't know anything about lupus in particular, but know it's the case for some types of illnesses so I assume it's the same). I don't know enough about your illness to know what part is the reaction, and what comes from the illness itself, so you're better off trusting your own judgment than mine. I can talk a bit about my experiences, maybe you'll end up finding something useful, maybe not. Regardless overcoming depression takes a lot of time and some days it's extra hard because you feel entirely beat down. Give it time and don't rush it. It does get easier with time. There is a chance you'll have a chronic type of mild depression even if you manage to rid yourself of the worst, though. I know that's the case for some people, but some are able to manage it at that point.

I used to be depressed and not know why, but in my case it was because I didn't realize when something was bothering me. I had a tendency to think things that shouldn't logically bother me, didn't bother me and that lead me to not feel about them, and thus they never went away. I would think you're still depressed because of everything that's changed etc, so it's not surprising small things can tip the cup. And it's entirely ok to feel that way. It's important to remember even when trying to overcome depression, that's it's allowed to grieve occasionally. Some days you just feel sad and devastated and you wrap yourself in a blanket and refuse to talk to anyone. Sometimes that's necessary and sometimes that will make you feel better after and more able to "rise again". Let the feels flow through you and stuff ._.

It's not that long ago you got your diagnosis, so it's understandable you need a bit more time to adjust. Eventually, like Tannhauser says, one needs to accept the new life and try to make the best of it. And yes, that might sound horrible if your future looks bleak, but it is possible to find some joys in the smaller things. I guess in the end it's either living with a horrible illness and feel depressed, or living with a horrible illness and feel ok. I hope it doesn't come of as patronizing or anything. I'm not saying stuff are easy and stuff, and some people have it worse than others. And yes, it can be extremely frustrating.

Oh, and I guess you might benefit from green and white tea if you enjoy drinking tea. If you drink too much green tea on an empty stomach you might get nauseous. Matcha is good stuff, but even easier to get nauseous from. Loose weight tends to be better than bags, some of it is overpriced though (well, depends on what country you're from, I guess. Tea tends to be considered fancy pansy here). White tea tends to be good for my brain fog

The nausea is caused by a mix of the meds, the Lupus its self, and like you, I have trouble digesting fats and sugars. I found that ginger helps, I'll have to tey caraway though. Mint tea helps at well, I just put a little honey in mine and it seems to help at night or when I first wake up, thats when its the worse.

I actually talked to my therapist today about what she thought it could be and she agreed its a mix between the medications I'm taking since more then half say problems include depression, the lupus since one of the symptoms is depression, and my state of mind. She thinks the best course of treatment is meds to help counter act the other meds causing the depression along with tools to me overcome it. One of the tools she suggested was changing the state if mind.


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[Nebulous]

*hugs for everyone.*
My mom has lupus. She's amazing. It's a big part of her life and therefore a big part of my life, because I see someone who's important in my heart going through what lupus entails.

I have early symptoms of it.
I don't know if I have it.
I've had blood tests and I'm not anemic, even though the nearly constant fatigue and weakness or even faintness I feel led people to think I'm anemic.

There a ton of pointers but I don't want to get into them. It'd be a very, very long story.

I found this thread while searching for somewhere I could talk about how underweight I am. It's bothering me.
I used to be anorexic, but that was over two years ago now. But I took some selfies a week or so ago and I just.. they're so disturbing, I look like a skeleton. Collarbones, hollow cheeks, sunken eyes surrounded by darkness, thin arms. I look sick. I look really sick. Which scared me because I've been eating. I definitely have been. I don't have an eating disorder, so.. why do I look like this..
I don't know. I don't understand, and doctors, psychiatrists, and psychologists don't either.

I'm freaked out.
I've also been sick for over two weeks now with a sore throat, headache, earache.. doctor said it's a virus, strep test was negative. It's driving me crazy.

I don't know.

I'm scared

I've seen how hard lupus is on my mom. I've heard horror stories about her being in the hospital and having reactions to medications and almost dying and so much more I just
It breaks my heart for her and I'm so scared to have this myself

You're so strong Littlefoot. Sending you the positive vibes I can muster.

 

[Ex-User (14663)]

@Nebulous there are many ways to be skinny despite eating regularly. For example if you eat a lot of lean food low on carbs, or if you drink a lot of caffeine, etc.

But I know the feeling – the unknowing and all the speculation can drive one insane. I'm a hypochondriac too sometimes.

 

[washti]

What tests doctors prescribe to you except that on virus?
Being underweight can be caused by parasites, bad nutrition absorbtion, hyperthyroidism ...and many other things.
What doc said about you being so skinny? Did he / she is first contact doctor? Did he point you to some specialist?