INTJ/INTP

[Puffy]

Hi, sorry I noticed theres a thread with a similar title but I have a different question. I'm new to the MBTI test and i've taken it a few times over the last few months. It has come up once with INTJ once with INTP, which is likely accurate as both tests have shown I have a narrow line between Judgement and perceiving. What I wanted to ask was what the differences is between INTP and INTJ's? Sorry if it's been frequently asked.

One thing I will say is i've been on an INTJ forum and you guys seem a lot more approachable, from what i've read, which is miles plus

 

[Aiss]

Have you read about cognitive processes (aka functions)? If not, you probably should. MBTI types are named based on "traits", which are also measured by the test; however the way they are is defined by functions. Here you can find descriptions of them. Also this INTP profile is considered quite accurate. INTPs and INTJs are both intuitive thinkers, but they use different sets of functions - Ne/Ti vs Ni/Te.

Of course, if you don't want to spend too much time researching MBTI to get your answer, you can always just assume P is for procrastination...

 

[Puffy]

you can always just assume P is for procrastination...

Sounds about right for me

Good article though thanks for the link.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

Sounds about right for me

i think J's procrastinate, in their own opinion, because procrastination is subjective to the person.
so if the person held themselves to a tighter schedule, they would find minor/slighter delays as procrastination, compared to the person who procrastinates for a living.

the real divide, for me, is:
do you make plans?
do you attempt to follow them?

 

[Kuu]

One thing I will say is i've been on an INTJ forum and you guys seem a lot more approachable

Only on the internet.

 

[Puffy]

Only on the internet.

Sorry, what I mean is my impression from speaking with a few INTJ's is that any conversation with them becomes focused on them trying to better you in some way. That's just my first impression anyway. The atmosphere here seems more conversational.

 

[shoeless]

...that's because we're not as judgmental. HEH HEH HEH.





i'm sorry, it had to be done. but it's basically true, anyway.

 

[Puffy]

...that's because we're not as judgmental. HEH HEH HEH.





i'm sorry, it had to be done. but it's basically true, anyway.

Haha and the wit shines through

 

[Firehazard159]

...that's because we're not as judgmental. HEH HEH HEH.





i'm sorry, it had to be done. but it's basically true, anyway.

I literally Lol'ed at that. Thank you XD

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

I literally Lol'ed at that.

I propose that since "lol" is weakened, we say, "literal lol," abbreviated "llol". As each successive term becomes weakened, just append more ls to the beginning.

lllllllllllllllol

 

[Anthile]

The differences between INTP and INTJ are actually quite obvious.

First, it's important to understand that INTPs have dominant Ti/Ne and INTJs have Ni/Te. Personally, I translate Ni as "vision" and Ne as "concept". So you can see, INTJs put their "vision" above everything else, in case of an underdeveloped Fi even above people.
INTPs put their critical approach - Ti - over their "concept". No, it becomes their concept. The pursuit of truth and clarity is the main drive for almost all INTPs.

Second, the confidence. INTJs, through the almost mystical Ni simply "know" many things. I think here it is important to see the conscious/subconscious duality. I see the subconsciousness as an ocean and the space above it is the consciousness. I don't want to explain it any further right now but I think people with dominant Ni can probably see deeper in the ocean or have extended access. The very "vision" itself arises from the depths of the subconsciousness. Ni people cannot control or choose their vision. They simply feel an immense drive to reach this specific vision. This all makes them prone to avoid procrastination.
Ne people follow concepts. A concept is like a road but without an end. The vision has an end but the concept knows no end. This is way NPs are prone to procrastination. Subconsciously they are aware that the concept is always active. In case of the INTP, they are aware that the quest for truth knows neither beginning nor ending. In fact, every second of their lives is part of this concept. Finiteness scares Ne people probably more than Ni people.

Third, INTJs are aware of their abilities. They know what they can do and what they can't do. Te dictates pragmatism. There is simply no room for needless doubting or boasting. Since the NT temperament people strive for competency, INTJs and INTPs are usually highly skilled individuals. INTPs are endlessly critical. Not just towards other people but also - or especially - towards themselves. As a consequence, INTPs underestimate themselves quite often and struggle with self-doubt. Oddly enough, both often come over as arrogant. The INTP uses this as shield because in SJ societies there is no one to appreciate critical thinking. The INTJ simply sees no reason to hold himself back just to obey social norms. If you are happen to be a S type, chances are high that the INTJ is (intellectually) more competent than you.

 

[JimTaylor]

Have you read about cognitive processes (aka functions)? If not, you probably should. MBTI types are named based on "traits", which are also measured by the test; however the way they are is defined by functions. Here you can find descriptions of them. Also this INTP profile is considered quite accurate. INTPs and INTJs are both intuitive thinkers, but they use different sets of functions - Ne/Ti vs Ni/Te.

Of course, if you don't want to spend too much time researching MBTI to get your answer, you can always just assume P is for procrastination...

This isn't helping me at all. I am finding that I relate to parts of all four. My mind is confused about what it wants to be. lol

 

[laserdanger]

This isn't helping me at all. I am finding that I relate to parts of all four. My mind is confused about what it wants to be. lol

The thing that I like to keep in perspective is that the human mind innately has all of these traits. The distinction lies in preference and strength. For example I may be a introvert, but it does not mean that I lack extroverted qualities. Have you ever witnessed someone rock out only to find out out that they are quite possibly the shyest person you have ever met? People are not static, and most importantly people can tap into other functions when necessary. As an INTJ i may often disregard feelings but it doesn't mean I don't have any.

 

[Kuu]

Anthile's analysis was good. But I'd say INTPs are like pirates. Fiercely independent, respecting no authority, never setting foot on solid ground for too long, we sail the endless, directionless sea of knowledge, reading patterns in the stars, waiting for the helpless ships to cross our path so we can cannon them with our logic, loot them of all their wisdom, and feed their feelings to the sharks.



And no one really knows just how much treasure we've got hidden...

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

But I'd say INTPs are like pirates. Fiercely independent, respecting no authority

I wouldn't overgeneralize here. I, for example, have way more respect for authority than most people I know. Perhaps I'm a minority among INTPs, but it is what it is.

 

[transformers]

wrote this on a different thread:

I have an INTJ brother and the differences between us are striking. INTJ's are GREAT problem solvers, they know how to get things done effectively and on time, whereas INTP's are more likely to think, think, think the hell out of the problem before they ever touch it. Or get distracted, bored, or procrastinate, going off on a tangent about how this problem relates to some bigger, more interesting but irrelevant problem. INTP's are much less "doers" than the more hands on INTJ's, who are able to dismiss distractions when required. Hope that helps somewhat.

Also, I've been to the INTJ forum as well and I agree, this forum does seem friendlier. Is that a good or bad thing? lol

 

[TheHmmmm]

Man, who started this rumor that INTJ's don't procrastinate? The ones I know, myself included, do it all the time. Sure, we meet the deadline, but we'll wait to do anything until we absolutely HAVE to because most of us just plain hate the work we do.

As far as the difference, look especially at social interaction. INTP's can be quite a bit more "people-friendly" whereas INTJ's only do so if they think that they need to (against their will) or think that their best interests are worth the plastic taste they get in their mouth from the incredulity of their facade.

If you would like to see some quirks of INTJ's, this site is convenient and slightly humorous about it: http://intjcentral.com/manual1

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Heh, that INTJ Central FAQ is pretty excellent.

 

[milkyway2]

The differences between INTP and INTJ are actually quite obvious.

First, it's important to understand that INTPs have dominant Ti/Ne and INTJs have Ni/Te. Personally, I translate Ni as "vision" and Ne as "concept". So you can see, INTJs put their "vision" above everything else, in case of an underdeveloped Fi even above people.
INTPs put their critical approach - Ti - over their "concept". No, it becomes their concept. The pursuit of truth and clarity is the main drive for almost all INTPs.

Second, the confidence. INTJs, through the almost mystical Ni simply "know" many things. I think here it is important to see the conscious/subconscious duality. I see the subconsciousness as an ocean and the space above it is the consciousness. I don't want to explain it any further right now but I think people with dominant Ni can probably see deeper in the ocean or have extended access. The very "vision" itself arises from the depths of the subconsciousness. Ni people cannot control or choose their vision. They simply feel an immense drive to reach this specific vision. This all makes them prone to avoid procrastination.
Ne people follow concepts. A concept is like a road but without an end. The vision has an end but the concept knows no end. This is way NPs are prone to procrastination. Subconsciously they are aware that the concept is always active. In case of the INTP, they are aware that the quest for truth knows neither beginning nor ending. In fact, every second of their lives is part of this concept. Finiteness scares Ne people probably more than Ni people.

Third, INTJs are aware of their abilities. They know what they can do and what they can't do. Te dictates pragmatism. There is simply no room for needless doubting or boasting. Since the NT temperament people strive for competency, INTJs and INTPs are usually highly skilled individuals. INTPs are endlessly critical. Not just towards other people but also - or especially - towards themselves. As a consequence, INTPs underestimate themselves quite often and struggle with self-doubt. Oddly enough, both often come over as arrogant. The INTP uses this as shield because in SJ societies there is no one to appreciate critical thinking. The INTJ simply sees no reason to hold himself back just to obey social norms. If you are happen to be a S type, chances are high that the INTJ is (intellectually) more competent than you.

Good description. I am an INTP and my friend is in INTJ, and it is a lot like this. I take information and I apply them to concepts, or whatever it is I'm searching for the truth in. And I feel like I don't know very much... like I have a bad memory. Because I never come to conclusions, really.. I just think and think and wonder and look. But he always knows what he thinks. He makes judgements and takes his info and makes assumptions. He gets annoyed with me for never coming to a conclusion, but I get annoyed with him for coming to them too fast without being completely sure.

 

[transformers]

Anthile's analysis was good. But I'd say INTPs are like pirates. Fiercely independent, respecting no authority, never setting foot on solid ground for too long, we sail the endless, directionless sea of knowledge, reading patterns in the stars, waiting for the helpless ships to cross our path so we can cannon them with our logic, loot them of all their wisdom, and feed their feelings to the sharks.



And no one really knows just how much treasure we've got hidden...

i like that analogy.

 

[walfin]

Masterminds. Innovators. Villains. Virgins.

Lol!

Just as an aside, I find it interesting that INTP central and INTP forum are forums in competition with each other, but INTJ central is a complementary site to INTJ forum. Perhaps we are less united than them.

 

[JimTaylor]

This isn't helping me at all. I am finding that I relate to parts of all four. My mind is confused about what it wants to be. lol

Ok so I did even more reading on this and took even more tests in my hopes of answering this question. My three strongest traits according to all the tests are as followed; Ne, Ti, Ni. I have read a lot of descriptions of Ne and it is defiantly me. I always find myself thinking about situations before and after the fact, and how the outcome could or might be different. Some of the ideas are plausible, some are just fantasy. I also find myself relating to Ni, because sometimes I just know things and how they work. I will look at an object or problem and just know how to solve it. Now all three of these with me are very strong and not far of % wise in the tests; so what does it mean having both a strong Ne and Ni?

 

[Aiss]

Ok so I did even more reading on this and took even more tests in my hopes of answering this question. My three strongest traits according to all the tests are as followed; Ne, Ti, Ni. I have read a lot of descriptions of Ne and it is defiantly me. I always find myself thinking about situations before and after the fact, and how the outcome could or might be different. Some of the ideas are plausible, some are just fantasy. I also find myself relating to Ni, because sometimes I just know things and how they work. I will look at an object or problem and just know how to solve it. Now all three of these with me are very strong and not far of % wise in the tests; so what does it mean having both a strong Ne and Ni?

I think we only use shadow functions in exceptional situations. Many people (especially at INTJ forum) believe they use both, but they seem to confuse them. You say you "just know" when you look at things. Do you see it the moment you look at it, or does it come to you at random time (doing something that isn't in any way related, but consumes your attention)? Ne can often see the solution together with the problem itself. Are you certain of these conclusions, or do you tend to validate them with Ti/Te?

For whatever it's worth, I score high on Fi and Ni in these tests, and my Ni resurfaces very rarely (if it's Ni at all).

 

[JimTaylor]

I think we only use shadow functions in exceptional situations. Many people (especially at INTJ forum) believe they use both, but they seem to confuse them. You say you "just know" when you look at things. Do you see it the moment you look at it, or does it come to you at random time (doing something that isn't in any way related, but consumes your attention)? Ne can often see the solution together with the problem itself. Are you certain of these conclusions, or do you tend to validate them with Ti/Te?

For whatever it's worth, I score high on Fi and Ni in these tests, and my Ni resurfaces very rarely (if it's Ni at all).

It all depends on how complex the thing is. If it is very complicated I might go off and do something else completly unrelated and it will just hit me, or at times I will just look at it and somehow just understand how it functions.

 

[brain enclosed in flesh]

Q: What are the pet peeves of INTJs?

A: Thanks for asking. Our pet peeves are:

* We dislike surprises.
* We hate having decisions made for us. We’re INTJs; nobody is more qualified to make decisions than us.
* We dislike getting gifts, as it burdens us with the need to reciprocate.
* We hate small talk, gossip, and relationship/people talk. Really anything mundane is beneath us.
* We get particularly annoyed by attacks on our intelligence, competence, and integrity.
* We hate it when people try to manipulate us.
* Insincerity and lying.
* People interfering with our alone time.
* People who are chronically late.
* People who talk incessantly. We will just engage our “nod and smile” autopilot and mentally go somewhere else.
* People who are stupid, arrogant, opinionated, and/or closed minded.
* Crooked/badly placed pictures.
* Superficiality (body piercings, pimped out cars, brightly colored anything).
* Salespeople. INTJs are immune to emotional manipulation and have zero tolerance for lines of bullshit.
* Incorrect grammar and word usage.
* People who waste our time (see Salespeople, people interfering with our alone time, etc.).

Check on every single one of those for me, minus the chronically late one. Time? What's that?

I've been reading Lenore Thomson's Personality Types. According to her, the differences between INTPs and INTJs are:

INTPs view things holistically, contextually, and explain things via analogies. INTPs love uncovering patterns and systems. For this reason, they lean toward architecture, art, mathematics, and music composition.

INTJs, because their perceiving function is introverted, typically see the rules of the external world as being somewhat arbitrary. Knowledge is a way of looking at things, not information. They cannot accept new information until they relate it to their inner world. They look for specifics and are analytical. They are drawn to medicine, mathematics, psychology, publishing, and linguistics.

... If you are an extreme introvert who resides primarily in Ni you may consider yourself to be a perceiver. Likewise, if you are an extreme introvert who resides primarily in Ti, you may think you are a judger.

All of this confuses the hell out of me, primarily because I relate to her INTJ description more than her INTP, and I always test like 90% perceiving in tests. Oh... ug.

 

[Yellow]

^ I relate with the INTJ/INTP confusion. I have many INTJ 'features' and the percentage of confidence in my 'Perceiving' for those tests is always weak. But, while I can act like an INTJ, I do the "I just know it, I'll figure out why later" thing, I have a lot of confidence in my decisions, I know what I can and can't do, and I know what I know and do not know, I am an INTP. An INTP with a J-hat on the shelf. I cannot make or follow plans, I detest them. I do not need or want order or control, I find it confining. I feel compelled, as my purpose in life, to seek truth. I like to take in information and do nothing with it. The "I just know it, I'll figure out why later" thing (I've always assumed) was the information kicking in during more urgent situations... like all of the stored pieces suddenly falling into place allowing me to act.

Ultimately, I think the descriptions that focus on details are less informative and more confusing than those that give a more fundamental explanation of differences.

 

[Trebuchet]

WARNING: Anecdotal evidence is being generalized here, plus this is a slightly tongue-in-cheek post.

I am married to and deeply in love with an INTJ, and I have very close INTJ friends, so while they are not representative, I'll have to go with what I've observed.

INTJs procrastinate, but for different reasons from INTPs. INTPs just don't seem to feel like getting up to do whatever it is, while INTJs procrastinate by refining their plans and finding one more thing that needs to be completed first. By the time the plans are done, it is already getting too late in the day to get started.

INTJs make endless boring lists of "to-do," calorie counting, what to buy as gifts, what chores to do on the weekend, etc, ad nauseum. They then feel like they have done a good day's work.

INTPs will either sit there feeling overwhelmed and behind, or pick whatever seems most important at the time, and do that, possibly with a break to do the thing that should really have been done first. No matter how much they get done, they don't feel like they have done a good day's work.

Both seem to get the same amount done, with the same level of success, but in ways that are so different that they can seem almost alien to each other.

INTP and INTJ make a good team, as long as you aren't trying to arrange a social calendar. But for problem solving, having fun together, and actually getting things done, one of each works really well.

 

[jhbowden]

INTJ= Spock: mystical, visionary interior, with a logical exterior

INTP= Data: a logical interior, always spitting out possibilities

The weakest functions are always obvious. The INTP is sensitive to social behavior, and is curious what it means to be human. The INTJ is stoic, and has trouble enjoying anything irrational, since that would be (oh noes!) biased.

 

[bluesquid]

Broke up with my GF about 4 months ago. She was a INTJ.

We are arogant about conclusions we come to objectively, they seem to be arrogant about the subjective with little care for the objective. not interesting conversation.

she drove me nuts while boring me. at least once, 3 times a day sex wore off.

 

[jhbowden]

she drove me nuts while boring me. at least once, 3 times a day sex wore off.

Pon farr isn't for everyone.

 

[Puffy]

Thanks for the description Anthile, it was very good. I'm starting to feel that while my P/J is almost 50/50 that my P is the dominant side. I have days where I switch between the two, according to your descriptions, and I have to say I definitely think that INTP's are more social than the INTJ. Though we all have different perspectives of truth i'd definitely agree that truth is the overarching theme of my life up to this point.

I find it interesting that you say that INTJ's just know things and that it is because they can reach deeper into the unconcsious than others, personally I feel it is my INTJ side that frequently attempts to blind me. If INTJ's are looking through the narrower scope of their own vision, then how is this more truthful than the INTP's broader approach? Not saying INTJ's are blind to the truth, they know bits, but are less inclined to explore what is not relevant to them?

Has anyone noticed that INTP's/ INTJ's frequently have family members of one of these personality types? I always notice people mention that one of their siblings or parents is INTx. My Dad is an INTJ, is this the same for everyone else?

 

[Struggling_Bee]

Has anyone noticed that INTP's/ INTJ's frequently have family members of one of these personality types? I always notice people mention that one of their siblings or parents is INTx. My Dad is an INTJ, is this the same for everyone else?

I'm INTP and I don't think that's true for me. Mother- ENFP (I think? E something) father and sister- ENTJ brother- INFP (?).
Thought my father's E is kind of weak, and I personally thought that was a mistest...

I don't actually have anything to contribute to the main topic though, sadly.

 

[Jesin]

Thanks for the description Anthile, it was very good. I'm starting to feel that while my P/J is almost 50/50 that my P is the dominant side. I have days where I switch between the two, according to your descriptions

Gah. Cognitive functions do not work that way.

 

[FrostFern]

I always score on the border between INTP and INTJ. I actually think I'm closer to an INTP in my thinking / problem solving style though. I get a definite visceral satisfaction from admiring the innate beauty of a solution to a problem that I've come up with. I'm not as driven in terms of practicality or knocking off to-do lists. I also prefer just farting around thinking about stuff / exploring ideas to goal driven projects.

The problem is I get a lot of 'J' points on tests because of my neurotic nature. I don't like chaotic environments in real life and I don't like unpredictability or sudden changes in plans. I think this has a lot more to do with my anxiety and the ways I cope with it than it does my innate way of thinking about the world. I cognitively perceive the world and think more like a 'P' than a 'J' despite this.

 

[Anling]

Anthile's analysis was good. But I'd say INTPs are like pirates. Fiercely independent, respecting no authority, never setting foot on solid ground for too long, we sail the endless, directionless sea of knowledge, reading patterns in the stars, waiting for the helpless ships to cross our path so we can cannon them with our logic, loot them of all their wisdom, and feed their feelings to the sharks.



And no one really knows just how much treasure we've got hidden...

I know this is late, but I just got around to reading this. I love this analogy. It's now in my quote book.

Now for something relavent to the thread:
I always seem to test INTJ, but INTP fits much better. I think that is because I was raised by an ESTJ and if you didn't conform you were in trouble. So I've learned to behave more like a J even though it isn't comfortable for me.